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Racism, rugby and football
Discussion started by inkworm , 23 October, 2012 09:36
Racism, rugby and football
inkworm 23 October, 2012 09:36
There has been and still is a lot in the press about racism in football but have there been any instances of it in English rugby, it is certainly not something I've ever been aware of in European rugby and is again another reason why I prefer the game over diveball.

The only time I can recall race being an issue is the number of non-white players in the Springboks.

Re: Racism, rugby and football
IanC 23 October, 2012 09:51
I recall a few Moseley supporters on the terrace shouting some stuff at Claude Gerald back in the 80's. We were sitting with his girlfriend at the time. The other terrace denizens shut them up pretty effectively and quickly before any stewards could get involved.

Quite funny, after the game the Moseley management were trying to get Claude to move to them. He found it very easy to say "no"!

Re: Racism, rugby and football
Stopsy 23 October, 2012 10:00
I have witnessed a person wearing a Tigers shirt on the Crumbie abusing Leon Lloyd in racist terms. Leon then scored and the idiot was asked to take his knowledge of rugby and race elsewhere.

Re: Racism, rugby and football
Tigergeezer 23 October, 2012 10:56
I vaguely remember a case (Super 14, maybe) where player 1 denied racial abuse of player 2 but did concede that calling him a "big-haired *******" was generally abusive. Also when LI took offence on Delon Armitage's behalf at his being called a "spide" by an Ulster player, which he heard (given the lyrical North Down accent in which it was delivered) as "spade" (and said he didn't know what "spade" meant). That one went nowhere, since it was accepted that "spide" was what was said (basically Norn Iron for "ned").

Pretty small beer, really, although I guess there's no room for complacency.



_____________________________________________

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Re: Racism, rugby and football
Tiggs 23 October, 2012 11:19
You could argue some protests against the SA contingent at Sarries is Racist ?
But only against those with the initials EG ?



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Re: Racism, rugby and football
SK 88 23 October, 2012 12:16
Redruth are currently investigating their own fans after racist abuse of an opposition player. That was roughly 3 weeks ago.

Justin Harrison, he of "Class A, it's okay Everbody's doing it!" singing, was banded for racially abusing an opponent in the Super XV just before he signed for Ulster.

Two Leinster players called Brian Mujati a baboon in a preseason game last year. That was shamefully brushed under the carpet by the Irish, you could say Northampton should have kicked of more of a fuss but they'd have had to outright call the IRFU liars and racists to do that so you can see why they didn't want the hassle.

Re: Racism, rugby and football
shendy 23 October, 2012 17:31
Tigergeezer - Mark Robinson and a Bath player I think. It was alleged (by a spectator I believe) that Robinson used "black" as a prefix, whereas he testified that he said "big haired". I don't think he denied following it with a word that called the player's parentage into question!
Here it is - 2006!

Re: Racism, rugby and football
Yorkie 23 October, 2012 17:37
Wasn't there a problem some years ago with the "banter" from the shed aimed at Steve Ojomoh or Victor Ubogu?

But generally racism not a problem in rugby.



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Re: Racism, rugby and football
IDLETIMES 23 October, 2012 18:00
And some chanting at the Newc.v Sund. game about death to a player on one side who would never play for the other team. I remember Olly Barclay when he was slightly misquoted as saying he would play for anyone but Leicester. The view from Tigers fans was that it was good to know where you stood.

Re: Racism, rugby and football
Stopsy 23 October, 2012 18:03
And a view probably shared by our management.

Re: Racism, rugby and football
IDLETIMES 23 October, 2012 18:14
Agreed Stopsy, I think we did try to sign him at one time, but there again my best friends husbands cousins sister swore blind that her 2nd cousins uncle had once seen Peter Tom trying to sign Gavin Henson.

Re: Racism, rugby and football
Pooneil 18 November, 2019 20:57
What about the entirety of Exeter’s ‘Indian’ brand?

Numerous American Indian advocacy groups have been calling for an end to negative and harmful stereotypes of their culture in sports, the media and popular culture since the 1940’s.

Decades of pressure, education and advocacy has led to a growing number of American schools, universities, and regional teams (both amateur and professional) abandoning their ‘Indian’ mascots and branding. Around two-thirds – more than 2,000 – of all ‘Indian’ references in sports have been replaced. No professional team in American, in any sport, has chosen to adopt new mascots that use ‘Indian’ racial stereotypes, in their names or imagery since 1963.

In case any ambiguity remained, in 1993 the National Congress of American Indians (NCAI) passed a resolution to “condemn[s] the racist and condescending attitude of team owners, colleges and high schools, which continue to demean the members of our Nations” and called upon “all reasonable individuals in decision-making positions to voluntarily change racist and dehumanizing mascots.”

Exeter opted to rebrand the club with their current ‘Indian’ mascot and imagery in 1999. The ‘Tomahawk Chop’ – which the NCAI and other groups describe as a racial slur – has only really taken hold in the last 10 years, with the encouragement of the club. Exeter is the only professional rugby union team in the world to merchandise itself with a caricature of an extant ethnic minority, to which they have absolutely no cultural or hereditary connection.

Simply put, if any other ethnic minority were stereotyped in any way similar to how Exeter Chiefs are misappropriating ‘Indian’ culture, it would simply not be tolerated. Replace ‘Indian’ with ‘African’ and it becomes pretty clear that we have an elephant in the room.

I genuinely believe rugby sets the standard for equality and respect in sport. I don’t imagine for a second that Exeter and their fans have any malicious intent, but ignorance or naivety are only excusable to a certain extent, the longer this issue is ignored the weaker that defence becomes.

Re: Racism, rugby and football
odd-shaped vagaries 18 November, 2019 21:39
Has no-one on here never crossed the Wye? (Sm100)

You could call that racism, but I suspect' ''As long as we beat the English we don't care'' is banter .. a bit of fun (Sm128)

Where do you draw the line [Offa's Dyke is not an acceptable answer (Sm151)



The referee is the final arbitrary
.. dementiaaahll!

Re: Racism, rugby and football
Rich W 18 November, 2019 23:20
Quote:
Pooneil
What about the entirety of Exeter’s ‘Indian’ brand?
Numerous American Indian advocacy groups have been calling for an end to negative and harmful stereotypes of their culture in sports, the media and popular culture since the 1940’s.

Decades of pressure, education and advocacy has led to a growing number of American schools, universities, and regional teams (both amateur and professional) abandoning their ‘Indian’ mascots and branding. Around two-thirds – more than 2,000 – of all ‘Indian’ references in sports have been replaced. No professional team in American, in any sport, has chosen to adopt new mascots that use ‘Indian’ racial stereotypes, in their names or imagery since 1963.

In case any ambiguity remained, in 1993 the National Congress of American Indians (NCAI) passed a resolution to “condemn[s] the racist and condescending attitude of team owners, colleges and high schools, which continue to demean the members of our Nations” and called upon “all reasonable individuals in decision-making positions to voluntarily change racist and dehumanizing mascots.”

Exeter opted to rebrand the club with their current ‘Indian’ mascot and imagery in 1999. The ‘Tomahawk Chop’ – which the NCAI and other groups describe as a racial slur – has only really taken hold in the last 10 years, with the encouragement of the club. Exeter is the only professional rugby union team in the world to merchandise itself with a caricature of an extant ethnic minority, to which they have absolutely no cultural or hereditary connection.

Simply put, if any other ethnic minority were stereotyped in any way similar to how Exeter Chiefs are misappropriating ‘Indian’ culture, it would simply not be tolerated. Replace ‘Indian’ with ‘African’ and it becomes pretty clear that we have an elephant in the room.

I genuinely believe rugby sets the standard for equality and respect in sport. I don’t imagine for a second that Exeter and their fans have any malicious intent, but ignorance or naivety are only excusable to a certain extent, the longer this issue is ignored the weaker that defence becomes.

Great post. We're had a discussion on this subject the other day in another thread. It would have been useful to have had this contribution.



...

Re: Racism, rugby and football
SK 88 19 November, 2019 10:00
Rather than resurrecting a post from 7 years ago!

But yes a top post.

Re: Racism, rugby and football
Tom Paine 19 November, 2019 10:15
England v Wales, OSV? certainly was racist in the Middle Ages. Now it's mainly friendly (ish) national banter, but it can still slip over into xenophobia which has strong elements in English (and other) cultures. That's why I'll miss the EU - apart from the economic arguments, it did help to break down national barriers and open minds in what had been a war ravaged continent.

Re: Racism, rugby and football
Brownian Motion 19 November, 2019 10:27
Compare and contrast the above to being on a Chester - Shrewsbury train, circa. 2005, when a load of Wrexham fans travelling to Shrewsbury for a cup game got on and started chanting, "If you want to kill the English clap your hands."

Re: Racism, rugby and football
Pooneil 19 November, 2019 12:31
Quote:
SK 88
Rather than resurrecting a post from 7 years ago!
Oops, sorry about that. I think I read the ‘other’ thread, then I did a forum search to make sure I wasn’t repeating stuff that had already been said, and must have confused this thread with the other more recent one.


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