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So looks like our Ellis will get some significant game time in Japan.
Discussion started by Yorkie , 07 September, 2019 20:34
So looks like our Ellis will get some significant game time in Japan.
Yorkie 07 September, 2019 20:34
Not good news for Mako.

Poor guy.

Does this make Eddie's decision to take just 2 Tightheads even more questionable?



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Re: So looks like our Ellis will get some significant game time in Japan.
PrestonTiger 07 September, 2019 21:34
Can he bring in an injury cover player ?
(If so the 31 is almost irrelevant).
But if not then I'm in agreement 2 TH is too few.

Re: So looks like our Ellis will get some significant game time in Japan.
SarrieSaint 09 September, 2019 08:49
Really like him as a player. Wish he'd been given more game time before now, think he does go MIA on occasion but I'd already start him over Marler. Thought he looked very good last weekend.

Re: So looks like our Ellis will get some significant game time in Japan.
SK 88 09 September, 2019 08:56
Quote:
PrestonTiger
Can he bring in an injury cover player ?
(If so the 31 is almost irrelevant).
But if not then I'm in agreement 2 TH is too few.

If you do that you have to send the other player home for the tournament.

So, arguably, he feels all the tightheads are much of a muchness, so if one gets any sort of injury just replace them, whereas Mako is the only prop really worth "carrying" to see if he comes ft later on.

Similarly Nowell is surely the other winger to May if fully fit, so he is carried as an injury with the appropriate cover but if a SH gets injured he'll just replace them with another one.

Re: So looks like our Ellis will get some significant game time in Japan.
Tiggs 09 September, 2019 11:32
Surely the problem is if a SH, or other, gets injured, but only expected to be out for 1-2 weeks.
Then do you play 2 games with just one SH, or send one good SH home to replace him for the 2 weeks, but actually have to replace him for the whole tournament ?



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Re: So looks like our Ellis will get some significant game time in Japan.
Brownian Motion 09 September, 2019 13:49
Some of it will depend on which two weeks they aren't available for, as well. I can't see a team running with only one specialist tighthead or scrumhalf for the quarters and, assuming they get there, semis.

Re: So looks like our Ellis will get some significant game time in Japan.
SK 88 09 September, 2019 14:15
Tiggs, I think that is exactly the point.

If they are basically all the same level (which I think the scrum halves more or less are) then it doesn't make sense to carry a third option you won't use unless there is an injury. Because if there is an injury you just call up the other guy anyway.

So if Heinz or Youngs gets injured they go home and Spencer or Wigglesworth gets called up instead. Similarly if Cole or Sinckler goes down then Williams gets called up.

Re: So looks like our Ellis will get some significant game time in Japan.
Tiggs 09 September, 2019 15:24
But they are not all the same YBY is clearly the preferred SH. Would Eddie want to dump him just because he is injured for 2 games ?



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Re: So looks like our Ellis will get some significant game time in Japan.
Duncan Keene 09 September, 2019 16:45
Surely that's what the evidence is suggesting at the moment.

A few caveats:

1) if he got a knock against Tonga i could just about see them going with Heinz only and Ford as cover for the USA game.

2) if all is going well and we beat Tonga, USA and Argentina and he got a knock against Argentina then i could see him not being sent home if injured for the France game only.

But any consecutive 2 games i don't see how they could keep him in the squad with only one other scrum half. The only other option would be to send someone else home. So if Youngs and say Launchberry got knocks then he might keep Youngs around to see if it improves and send Launchberry home calling up a scrum half. Wigglesworth is of course in Japan as part of Canada's coaching squad for the group stages.

Suspension would be even worse than injury as you can't call up a replacement, if they hand out red cards like in the under 20's then it's very imaginable that countries could end up in some very odd situations which is only going to encourage 'blood gate' type behaviour to get some injury call ups to re-balance the squad as best they can.

Where i have sympathy with Jones is in a 31 man squad you have to have this situation in some positions.

Re: So looks like our Ellis will get some significant game time in Japan.
TonyMay 09 September, 2019 17:13
But a lot of this could have been avoided by taking an extra prop and one less back.

Re: So looks like our Ellis will get some significant game time in Japan.
SK 88 09 September, 2019 18:32
Hardly anyone is taking 6 props, in fact I'm not sure anyone is?

Re: So looks like our Ellis will get some significant game time in Japan.
SK 88 09 September, 2019 18:41
Ireland: 5 props
Japan: 5
Samoa: 5
Scotland: 5
Russia: 5
Canada: 5
Italy: 6
Namibia: 5
New Zealand: 5
South Africa: 5
Argentina: 5
England: 5
France: 5
Tonga: 6
USA: 5
Australia: 5
Fiji: 5
Georgia: 5
Uruguay: 5 (One player is listed in some sources as a prop and another as a hooker, so it's either 5 props, 3 hookers or 6 props, 2 hookers)
Wales: 5


So this is a gamble almost every other nation is taking too.

Re: So looks like our Ellis will get some significant game time in Japan.
Barney_Gumble 09 September, 2019 21:16
I think that perhaps the point of difference may be that no other nation is taking just 4 fit props and 2 fit centres...

Re: So looks like our Ellis will get some significant game time in Japan.
PrestonTiger 09 September, 2019 21:40
Quote:
SK 88
Ireland: 5 props
Japan: 5
Samoa: 5
Scotland: 5
Russia: 5
Canada: 5
Italy: 6
Namibia: 5
New Zealand: 5
South Africa: 5
Argentina: 5
England: 5
France: 5
Tonga: 6
USA: 5
Australia: 5
Fiji: 5
Georgia: 5
Uruguay: 5 (One player is listed in some sources as a prop and another as a hooker, so it's either 5 props, 3 hookers or 6 props, 2 hookers)
Wales: 5


So this is a gamble almost every other nation is taking too.

Wonder how many can play both sides... or even miraculously decide they can for their country even tho they wouldn't at club level (Corbisiero coming immediately to mind after Stains went to uncontested scrums when he suddenly forgot he could play both sides a couple of years ago at Welford Road)

Re: So looks like our Ellis will get some significant game time in Japan.
Tiggs 09 September, 2019 22:11
And SH's as well



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Re: So looks like our Ellis will get some significant game time in Japan.
Yorkie 09 September, 2019 22:51
You don't have to have a SH on your bench but you do need to have a full replacement front row on it. So you need 2 THs, 2 Hookers and 2 LHs for every match.



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Re: So looks like our Ellis will get some significant game time in Japan.
Tiggs 10 September, 2019 07:51
A brave coach that starts a game with only one SH in a RWC



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Re: So looks like our Ellis will get some significant game time in Japan.
tigersimon 11 September, 2019 03:38
Why don’t World Rugby increase the squad sizes to say 34 and insist on a certain number of Front Row players (Like EPCR squads). With the quick turnarounds this would improve player welfare.

Re: So looks like our Ellis will get some significant game time in Japan.
Yorkie 11 September, 2019 19:56
Quote:
tigersimon
Why don’t World Rugby increase the squad sizes to say 34 and insist on a certain number of Front Row players (Like EPCR squads). With the quick turnarounds this would improve player welfare.

(Sm22) (Sm22)

World Rugby actually caring about the players!!!

(Sm22)

Your post wasn't serious was it? Normally you're very rational!



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Re: So looks like our Ellis will get some significant game time in Japan.
Yorkie 11 September, 2019 19:58
Quote:
Tiggs
A brave coach that starts a game with only one SH in a RWC

Agreed but you could. The laws allow it. Whereas they are very prescriptive re front row players.



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