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Hold your head in shame
Discussion started by daktari , 10 November, 2019 22:14
Hold your head in shame
daktari 10 November, 2019 22:14
We are now the guaranteed bonus point victory visitors team . Whilst our England players take a well earned rest, and that rest will include a year in the Championship , on current form , a defeated team, a lack of situational awareness and a deserved place firmly at the bottom of the table,.

Re: Hold your head in shame
Ayerzawannabe 10 November, 2019 22:21
Who are you telling to hold heads in shame?

Us the supporters?
The players? Perhaps tell them that to their faces at welford road next week.

Re: Hold your head in shame
daktari 10 November, 2019 22:26
i suggest you analyse the comments of the players and elements of the coaching and management structure , not individual punters like me , maybe listen to Guy Thompson and other post match comments.

Re: Hold your head in shame
Tom Paine 10 November, 2019 22:37
The only people who should feel ashamed are those who are responsible for getting us where we are now over the last three or more years. The Board of Directors and the CEO. The players and the coaches are not to blame - if they could do better I'm sure they would.
When Ben Kay returns to Rugby Tonight and is asked why his club are in such desperate straits, I would like to see him hold his hand up and state that: ' We the Board of Directors have brought low a once mighty club. I am sorry.'
Fat Chance, I know, but it is the truth.

Re: Hold your head in shame
daktari 10 November, 2019 22:58
Easy for the truth deniers to praise the Emperors new clothes than to analyse and evaluate the reality. As Winston Churchill once said , now matter how fine we believe our Strategy we should also look at the results.

Re: Hold your head in shame
daktari 10 November, 2019 23:09
FFS, listen , listen to the words ,watch the body language and why Guy , where is the Team Captain , where are the long standing Tigers comments

Re: Hold your head in shame
blueamada 10 November, 2019 23:25
Take nothing away from Guy Thompson - really feel for him and those others that do put in a shift.
Essentially though we hear the same words every week after every loss but without the actions needed to help put things right.
I do fear for us.

Re: Hold your head in shame
Ayerzawannabe 10 November, 2019 23:56
I have listened to Guy.
And I still don't know what he should be ashamed for?

Players are people and it's obviously hurting them. They are not losing for lack of caring IMO.
It gets lost amongst the hurt for supporters, but I don't get the taking anger at them for.
[www.thetimes.co.uk]

Re: Hold your head in shame
PrestonTiger 11 November, 2019 00:01
Quote:
daktari
FFS, listen , listen to the words ,watch the body language and why Guy , where is the Team Captain , where are the long standing Tigers comments


We are just like England. We have no true leadership on the pitch.
We've not had since the retirement of the likes of Chuter, Luis Deacon and Ant Allen, and the departure of Flood.
England ? Not since about 2010 or 11.

Re: Hold your head in shame
Brownian Motion 11 November, 2019 09:08
Quote:
PrestonTiger
We are just like England. We have no true leadership on the pitch.
What? You mean the England team that just made a World Cup final, but were beaten on the day by a far better team? That England?


Quote:
PrestonTiger
We've not had since the retirement of the likes of Chuter, Luis Deacon and Ant Allen, and the departure of Flood.
Flood was no leader. You appear to have forgotten the game (I forget against whom) we almost lost because he refused to take a last minute drop goal, and Murphy instead stepped up to knock it over.

Re: Hold your head in shame
Purebob 11 November, 2019 09:42
All of us armchair experts have our views of the certain and obvious shortcomings of tigers set up, many of them very different.

My own is that learned and practiced play rarely translates into live games. No idea why that is: a kind of colllective malaise hits our team. It happened under Cockers, Mauge, MOC and now Smurf.

I am certain that good, winning tactics and skills are taught and practiced at Oval park, and that fitness metrics are met and exceeded for every player. Then they go out again Glaws and execute them. A week later they play unrecognisaly differently, not because of errant, or absent on-field leadership, but for some reason that has eluded five years of excellent, proven coaches.

Blaming chubby men in suits who have zero input at Oval Park or on Matchday seems inapt, as does slating players for "not wanting it" or other "shameful" behavious when they are clearly broken after such a loss.

We have gone from "Cockers Out!" through "Mauger out!", "MOC out!" and now "Murphy out !" , and wholesale playing squad changes, yet we are still playing the same erratic cr@p as five years ago when this present malaise truly set in.

Somebody explain how the board force hopeless execution of well designed tactics and I will agree they need changing. After all, we've tried changing everything else.

I hurt for the players. I'm not angry at them. They will hate this. Every man jack surely wants to be part of the squad that rebirthed Leicester Tigers, not relegated them.



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Re: Hold your head in shame
odd-shaped vagaries 11 November, 2019 10:22
Quote:
Purebob
All of us armchair experts have our views of the certain and obvious shortcomings of tigers set up, many of them very different.
My own is that learned and practiced play rarely translates into live games. No idea why that is: a kind of colllective malaise hits our team. It happened under Cockers, Mauge, MOC and now Smurf.

I am certain that good, winning tactics and skills are taught and practiced at Oval park, and that fitness metrics are met and exceeded for every player. Then they go out again Glaws and execute them. A week later they play unrecognisaly differently, not because of errant, or absent on-field leadership, but for some reason that has eluded five years of excellent, proven coaches.

Blaming chubby men in suits who have zero input at Oval Park or on Matchday seems inapt, as does slating players for "not wanting it" or other "shameful" behavious when they are clearly broken after such a loss.

We have gone from "Cockers Out!" through "Mauger out!", "MOC out!" and now "Murphy out !" , and wholesale playing squad changes, yet we are still playing the same erratic cr@p as five years ago when this present malaise truly set in.

Somebody explain how the board force hopeless execution of well designed tactics and I will agree they need changing. After all, we've tried changing everything else.

I hurt for the players. I'm not angry at them. They will hate this. Every man jack surely wants to be part of the squad that rebirthed Leicester Tigers, not relegated them.

Well, yes .. well said, but there must be a cause that sets us apart from the clubs which have progressed during the same period .. wish I, or rather they, could identify it and cure it consistently



The referee is the final arbitrary

Re: Hold your head in shame
Dreadnought 11 November, 2019 11:03
Guy Thompson interview is in my opinion just another cynical attempt by the club to spin out yet another attrocious performance. They have exhausted wheeling out TomYoungs post match so they thought they would wheel out Guy Thompson because he actually cares and gives his all.

The only improvement at Tigers has been their on line hyper spin output !

Re: Hold your head in shame
Tiggs 11 November, 2019 11:08
It rarely is just one thing though.
Usually it is small margins in LTS of areas that contribute to the failings.
Identifying every single one, and remedying them all is no easy, or quick, fix.
All you can do is start with the big easy problems, and then work through them all until it clicks.
Just try to enjoy the ride on the way.



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Re: Hold your head in shame
rcheek77 11 November, 2019 11:13
I wouldn't be worrying too much just yet. Wasps look utterly atrocious and you guys have a load of top quality players to return very soon. Wasps have Joe Launchbury to return but that's it. So I think you guys will survive and genuinely think Wasps will be relegated this year. Even after the 35 points deduction to Salarycens. How the two titans of English rugby have fallen......10 years ago it was Wasps and Tigers as the dominant forces, and now look at them. Shame.

Re: Hold your head in shame
ttbb 11 November, 2019 14:21
Sal'rysins will stay up and we won't unless players start to play as a unit- giving their best for team and putting in a little extra in every department.

Don't expect everything to come right when the England contingent return because (whisper it) they are four backs and two props. It is the back row and linespeed across the whole team which were so sorely lacking last season-willingness to put in a shift. If they are not willing to put in a shift then that failure of motivation is a failure in the job of coach and the captain. If it didn't work last season it won't work. X Factor as player and X Factor as coach are two completely different things. A need to instil fear confidence and respect in equal measure are what's needed. When does Borthwick arrive?

Re: Hold your head in shame
Murphyjames 11 November, 2019 15:00
I actually don't think the players care enough, or deeply enough, or hurt enough. I suspect its just another game to them, it's a job, another season, staying injury free, eeking out enough kudos and credit to get another contract. Away from Tigers if possible.

International players apart(more on them later) - I don't see anymore that never say die, Tigers spirit that existed with previous generations of second string/journeymen pros of this once great, but now crumbling club. At one time, the non-International players would and did keep the ship afloat during the times the better players were away. Not anymore.

Defeat comes to easy to all at the club, shrug the shoulders, make the excuses, move on to the next debacle.

If the players really, really cared and put more in - on the pitch - the results would be different.
Not the dross currently being served up. We are World Class at excuses and looking in the mirror with hands being put up - until next week.

Leadership is simply non-existant. Tom Youngs, must be the least effective club captain - ever. And he still takes the arm band and gets picked. It's tragic to see his fall and his demise is already complete. His performance yesterday was utter crap.

On a regular basis, away games in particular, the Coaches openly state we did not bother to turn up, or the opposition 'wanted it more' - that is living, breathing proof that the 23 players on the pitch are not putting it all in. It's all gone terminally wrong - and yes for those that remember my predictions - It's Wils here, I was right. I mentioned relegation years ago - only to get pelters from the Tigers do no wrong brigade. Well here's to you.

The whole culture of the club is lost in total averageness - defeat is the easy, go to option, it no longer hurts or matters if the team loses. Winning rugby matches consistently vanished 3/4 seasons ago. No one cares anymore.

The winning Stats don't lie - we lose more than we win, and we rarely, if ever, win well, our irregular wins are matters of luck/chance/last minute hail mary plays.
We have no pattern or platform to play from - to be a winning team.
Tigers are already a crumbled empire.
Lost.
Broken.
Living on past faded glory.
A club up for sale because the current BoD do not have the remotest idea of how to fix anything, other than 'spin' cheap PR.

I see young players been 'given a chance', but they are so poorly coached, managed, prepared and conditioned, they are simply being set up to fail by 'the system'. Already Harry Wells is looking like the next Kitchener - a player with potential, who fails to kick on. I fear the same for our stable of young props - and lets not even mention the backline youngsters - they have very little of Mr Murphy's skills - and that's a scandal given that Geordan was 'the George Best of Rugby'.
We have lurched from too few Coaches - to too many I guess, and Throbwick still to come.

It's a right royal cock up.

It's easy to see why SArries 12 years ago sacked the lot - and started afresh.
It's the only way - can the new owners promise that?.

As for our star England players. Relying them as the cavalry to see us home is naive in the extreme.
Their heads are in the sheds - mangled by the enormity of the WC - and it's failure. They will see all that's good in other players from other clubs - and then head back to what at Tigers?.

Depression I should think. Or a desire to move on. And I hope Ben Youngs does to be frank.
Ben Youngs has not played well for Tigers for 3/4/5 years, delete which number you choose to. The fact is those England guys are not the answer based on previous evidence. They will miss a large chunk of this - indeed anyother season.

And lets not get over excited by our new No 8 after yesterday - he was outplayed by our former No 8, who played 6 by a mile yesterday. Our Argentine Lock makes only the bench. What's going on?.

Relegation is actually the way forward.

It's the only way things will realy change.

And by then, hopefully Peter Tom and Simon Cohen will be gone also.

We will be able to see the clear picture - and once the boil of history has been lanced - and everyone fully accepts inside the club, what the fans already know - Tigers is a crisis club, on it's last legs - as even a modest force in English rugby.

Everyone has caught us, and now moved ahead. We are stll playing numbnuts rugby. I used to compare us to Treviso, but that is an insult to Treviso.

And to think Peter Toms stated aim was to be the 'best club side in the world'.

I don't suppose he will give us an update on that anytime soon, least of all when his shares are sold and he rides off into the sunset.

Re: Hold your head in shame
Purebob 11 November, 2019 15:12
I lost count at the number of fact free assertions in your missive at eleven.

Opinions are like @rseholes, everybody has one. Factual deductions are rather rarer.



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Re: Hold your head in shame
Murphyjames 11 November, 2019 16:12
The fact that Tigers are a losing team not a winning one, you are a bit uncomfortable with that I guess ImpureBob

Re: Hold your head in shame
Purebob 11 November, 2019 18:09
Another fact free assertion. Are you Boris Johnson ?



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