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Re: Borthwick - official
Dreadnought 22 January, 2020 10:59
The "Peter Principle" is therefore expressed as: "In a hierarchy every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence." This leads to Peter's Corollary: "In time, every post tends to be occupied by an employee who is incompetent to carry out its duties."

Indeed I have witnessed this principle in action in my 35 year career. However, in Murphys case I believe his performance record shows he is demonstrably incompetent to carry out his current duties in his current role (Head Coach).

So Murphy has been promoted three levels higher than his competence (player, skills coach, Head Coach and DOR)

This questions the competence of all those that decided his incompetence in his previous and current role should be rewarded by promoting him even further beyond his competence.

Re: Borthwick - official
Brownian Motion 22 January, 2020 11:23
Some people can never be happy.

Re: Borthwick - official
S4llyC 22 January, 2020 11:42
I always find it interesting to muse over how people choose their Sportsnetwork “names”..........and how appropriate, or otherwise, they appear to be......

Sorry, just a little Idle-esque moment there

Re: Borthwick - official
Dreadnought 22 January, 2020 11:50
Quote:
Brownian Motion
Some people can never be happy.

Some people dislike the opinions of others.

Re: Borthwick - official
Stopsy 22 January, 2020 11:51
I'm happy to see whether the new arrangement works.

Re: Borthwick - official
Rich W 22 January, 2020 11:58
Some people mistake 'dislike' and 'disagree'.



...

Re: Borthwick - official
RushdenTiger (KT at work) 22 January, 2020 12:24
Quote:
Dreadnought
The "Peter Principle" is therefore expressed as: "In a hierarchy every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence." This leads to Peter's Corollary: "In time, every post tends to be occupied by an employee who is incompetent to carry out its duties."
Indeed I have witnessed this principle in action in my 35 year career. However, in Murphys case I believe his performance record shows he is demonstrably incompetent to carry out his current duties in his current role (Head Coach).

So Murphy has been promoted three levels higher than his competence (player, skills coach, Head Coach and DOR)

This questions the competence of all those that decided his incompetence in his previous and current role should be rewarded by promoting him even further beyond his competence.

A couple of things which intrigue me re the 'Peter Principle'. No offence intended Mr Dreadnought but had you reached your final promotion when you witnessed it in action? If so had do you know you were witnessing it competently.

And the person who came up with this principle, was he/she at the zenith of their career? If so it's a pile of carp given it's been posited by an incompetent.

Re: Borthwick - official
Tiggs 22 January, 2020 12:30
It does have some credence, but the reality is that more Companies promote workers until they are clearly still doing a fantastic job, and then don't promote them further, as they can not be easily replaced.
Only when the Manager above is useless, or leaves, do those below get promoted, and usually only if they are able, and do not leave a void below.
I would suggest that the Pete Principle happens less often than competent workers being held back that can be promoted and perform.
Lack of perfomance usually relates to lack of training and support, and not due to lack of ability as well.



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Re: Borthwick - official
Dreadnought 22 January, 2020 13:59
Quote:
RushdenTiger (KT at work)
Quote:
Dreadnought
The "Peter Principle" is therefore expressed as: "In a hierarchy every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence." This leads to Peter's Corollary: "In time, every post tends to be occupied by an employee who is incompetent to carry out its duties."
Indeed I have witnessed this principle in action in my 35 year career. However, in Murphys case I believe his performance record shows he is demonstrably incompetent to carry out his current duties in his current role (Head Coach).

So Murphy has been promoted three levels higher than his competence (player, skills coach, Head Coach and DOR)

This questions the competence of all those that decided his incompetence in his previous and current role should be rewarded by promoting him even further beyond his competence.

A couple of things which intrigue me re the 'Peter Principle'. No offence intended Mr Dreadnought but had you reached your final promotion when you witnessed it in action? If so had do you know you were witnessing it competently.
.

No offence taken I witnessed this when I first went from the shop floor into management. When I retired I had been promoted 5 grades and no doubt others probably thought I had been promoted beyond my competence

Re: Borthwick - official
pubtime 22 January, 2020 23:51
Good line out coach but head coach??? ummm we will see

Re: Borthwick - official
odd-shaped vagaries 23 January, 2020 08:45
Quote:
RushdenTiger (KT at work)
Quote:
Dreadnought
The "Peter Principle" is therefore expressed as: "In a hierarchy every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence." This leads to Peter's Corollary: "In time, every post tends to be occupied by an employee who is incompetent to carry out its duties."
Indeed I have witnessed this principle in action in my 35 year career. However, in Murphys case I believe his performance record shows he is demonstrably incompetent to carry out his current duties in his current role (Head Coach).

So Murphy has been promoted three levels higher than his competence (player, skills coach, Head Coach and DOR)

This questions the competence of all those that decided his incompetence in his previous and current role should be rewarded by promoting him even further beyond his competence.

A couple of things which intrigue me re the 'Peter Principle'. No offence intended Mr Dreadnought but had you reached your final promotion when you witnessed it in action? If so had do you know you were witnessing it competently.

And the person who came up with this principle, was he/she at the zenith of their career? If so it's a pile of carp given it's been posited by an incompetent.

Well if we're talking competence, let's talk Empire Tea Rooms shall we Peter .. or Tom [.. or Harry? (Sm116) oh no, he's gone]



The referee is the final arbitrary

Re: Borthwick - official
Rich W 23 January, 2020 08:51
Quote:
pubtime
Good line out coach but head coach??? ummm we will see

Pretty negative but at least try to be accurate - he's considerably more than a lineout coach.



...

Re: Borthwick - official
pubtime 24 January, 2020 12:39
Forwards coach then....

Re: Borthwick - official
Rich W 24 January, 2020 12:52
Indeed. And we will see - but people aren't born as head coaches. They have to develop.



...

Re: Borthwick - official
harlequinade 24 January, 2020 23:43
Steve Borthwick: How can Leicester's new head coach change their fortunes?

Quote:
His exact start date is yet to be finalised, but Leicester have at least 10 games after the Six Nations, when Borthwick's time with England ends - ample time to tinker should they be out of the running for a Champions Cup place.

Quote:
Murphy took the reins after O'Connor's dismissal at the start of last season, but since then the club legend - he won eight domestic and two European titles in more than 300 games as a Leicester player - has steered the Tigers to just eight victories in 29 Premiership games.
ouch!



Life is short,
and art long,
opportunity fleeting,
experimentations perilous,
and judgment difficult.

Re: Borthwick - official
pubtime 25 January, 2020 10:09
Yes indeed but given where Leicester is right now do you really want to offer yourself up as an incubator.. Hope he works for you but Leicester is a big club that needs a Klopp not a Solskjaer

Re: Borthwick - official
odd-shaped vagaries 25 January, 2020 10:20
Geordie is your Solskjaer in that analogy

Could Bortherwick be your Klippety Klop?



The referee is the final arbitrary

Re: Borthwick - official
Brownian Motion 25 January, 2020 10:25
I'm not really sure of your point. Klopp would be a replacement for Murphy; Borthwick is an assistant to him. Also you massively underestimate how much work he does for Eddie Jones - he's been central to everything the two have achieved both with Japan and England.

Re: Borthwick - official
Stopsy 25 January, 2020 10:38
I suspect Steve has learned a lot more under Eddie than simply doing his forwards role. Now to put it into practice

Re: Borthwick - official
tigerburnie 25 January, 2020 10:49
I'm more than happy to give Borth's a good go at the job, he should have a couple of years to turn our sows ear into to something smooth and silky.

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