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Tigers players rejecting 75% wages?
Discussion started by Jon T , 26 March, 2020 20:44
Tigers players rejecting 75% wages?
Jon T 26 March, 2020 20:44
[www.theguardian.com]

According to the Guardian that might just be the case.

Edited for title error...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/03/2020 11:37 by Jon T.

Re: Tigers players rejecting 75% wage cut?
SK 88 26 March, 2020 21:01
Good on them I say.

What efforts have been made to make the wage bill?
How has it been communicated to the players and other staff? I note the club's statement did not include the directors in those taking a pay cut. Quite clearly the issues were not raised, discussed and agreed with the staff prior to going public. Which makes it look to me like an attempt to guilt or railroad them into agreeing.
Given our VAT bill and rates bill are no longer due, the rates cancelled rather than deferred too, what impact has that had on the need to cut wages?
Why can Tom Scott not cover the amount short from the wage bill and have the loan repaid when the games are on?
What exploring of the government's business interruption loans have we done?
The audited accounts showed 8m in July 2019. Where has this money gone if it is no longer available?

Without answering these questions fully I think the players are right to ask why they should shoulder the burden.

Re: Tigers players rejecting 75% wage cut?
KevinR 26 March, 2020 21:43
25% wage cut (as previously reported) according to the article?

Re: Tigers players rejecting 75% wage cut?
IanC 27 March, 2020 06:48
If this is true I fear for the future of the organisation without a huge change from top down (or maybe just for the future of the organisation period.) The Wasps announcement was accompanied by descriptions of discussions and meetings with players that led to the agreement.
I wonder what happened at Oval Park and if similar discussions and explanations were carried out? We cannot know until the truth comes out (and hopefully this story is just plain wrong) but it does look a bit similar to Johnny May being offered a take it or leave it huge pay cut.
Just to speculate, and hopefully that's all it is, can you imagine your reaction if you were told you were getting a 25% pay cut without explanation and without similar cuts to salary elsewhere in the company?
Even if all this was done, and again, if the story is true, what does it say about the relationship the players feel they have with the club and it's management?

Re: Tigers players rejecting 75% wage cut?
Fat Boy 27 March, 2020 07:57
"Just to speculate, and hopefully that's all it is, can you imagine your reaction if you were told you were getting a 25% pay cut without explanation and without similar cuts to salary elsewhere in the company?"

I don't have to imagine a 25% pay cut - I've just taken one myself and did so voluntarily.

However, I struggle to believe this was imposed with no explanation/similar cuts elsewhere.

With regards to an explanation, given the nature of the beast it is quite hard to sit everyone down together to run through it as you might normally do when breaking bad news. So I wouldn't be surprised if this came in writing one way or another, but maybe not everyone reads it. You'd also hope there'd be follow up calls to everyone, but that takes time. And to be utterly blunt, if the players are that stupid that they can't see why they're being asked - I'd be very concerned.

With regards to cuts elsewhere, Peter Tom's statement says that 'all staff' have been asked to take the cut - so either he is lying or it also applies to Directors/executives.

All that said - if Tom is lying in his statement and directors aren't leading the way with salary reduction, and if it was announced to the staff via a media statement - that would be atrocious management of the worst kind, and frankly should result in him and any others involved getting their marching orders. I'm just struggling to believe it's actually that bad.

Re: Tigers players rejecting 75% wage cut?
PrestonTiger 27 March, 2020 08:36
Being an experienced cynic i see some companies taking advantage of the situation - leap to cutting wages as the 1st option not the last.
(I say that with experience... pay cuts gonna be imposed where I am from next week... despite being fully employed and working as (near) usual, no reduction of production work in our team / Co. All with near zero discussion, just an email last night.

(I do of course realise I'm still in a better position than many in the country)

Of course back to Tigers, PT really answers to only to the large shareholder so us hardly held to account.

Re: Tigers players rejecting 75% wage cut?
SK 88 27 March, 2020 08:58
Fat Boy, typically directors would not be included in the term staff. I imagine they are included but the statement did not say so.

Also, the players have an active union with an official rep sent to the Rugby Players Association. If the rep had been informed, included in discussion and agreed than I think the statement would have included this and we would not have seen national newspapers publishing that almost the whole squad is in agreement to refuse.

Given these things don't happen in isolation I think the picture in your final paragraph looks the most likely one to me, a dictate from above with little effort and less success to win the hearts and minds.

Re: Tigers players rejecting 75% wage cut?
Fat Boy 27 March, 2020 09:38
SK88 - maybe it is as bad as all that, perhaps I've just been lucky with employers and have an over-optimistic outlook. I think the 25% pay cut is perfectly reasonable if implemented appropriately (i.e. agreed with people in advance of announcing it, and only for the duration of business being interrupted), but if management don't/haven't treated people well it will come back to bite them and maybe that's what this is - I guess we'll find out soon enough one way or another.

Re: Tigers players rejecting 75% wage cut?
Yorkie 27 March, 2020 09:45
Quote:
SK 88
Fat Boy, typically directors would not be included in the term staff.

Disagree if they are working "Executive" Directors, particularly when they are non-owner Directors like at Tigers.

Non-Exec Directors are normally not regarded as "staff" but they are not paid anything at Tigers.



http://www.jakehowlett.com/tuckshop/wrappers/chocolate/plain/yorkie-nutter.jpg

Re: Tigers players rejecting 75% wage cut?
KevinR 27 March, 2020 09:53
With so many players are participating in the 'ring a season ticket holder' campaign, I find it odd that a mutiny is being reported. There's clearly upset, but I don't think the situation is irretrievable and it's pure speculation to assume the club has acted in bad faith. Maybe I'm just naive, but I expect Tigers to be better than that.

Re: Tigers players rejecting 75% wage cut?
odd-shaped vagaries 27 March, 2020 09:55
You cannot be told to take a pay cut .. as I understand it

[www.contactlaw.co.uk]

vis: Preston: "(I say that with experience... pay cuts gonna be imposed where I am from next week... despite being fully employed and working as (near) usual, no reduction of production work in our team / Co. All with near zero discussion, just an email last night."



The referee is the final arbitrary



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/03/2020 09:57 by odd-shaped vagaries.

Re: Tigers players rejecting 75% wage cut?
Brownian Motion 27 March, 2020 10:17
But they can then make you redundant if you do not.

A couple of things - the article suggests it's wider-spread than *just* the Tigers squad, so clearly isn't, at least solely, about how the club has handled things. Also, I think it's right that the players note their position regardless, to at least ensure that future discussions about claiming back pay are had - that's not necessarily an indicator that the pay cut will not be accepted. I think there's a lot of hearsay and speculation in that article, and it isn't especially helpful.

Re: Tigers players rejecting 75% wage cut?
IDLETIMES 27 March, 2020 10:19
Common sense dictates that everyone must be aware of the situation the players have to be prepared to take a bit of a knock otherwise, in the long term it will be 100% reduction. Given that, you would think the club would have given a full explanation to the players and staff.

Re: Tigers players rejecting 75% wage cut?
ChrisC 27 March, 2020 11:07
Quote:
Brownian Motion
But they can then make you redundant if you do not.

Not quite as easy as it sounds as there's a process to fulfil to make a person redundant.

People are not redundant it's the job they do. So first it has be demonstrated that it is actually redundant, then there's the statutory consultation period.

Then it has be demonstrated why the job is redundant and if other people perform the same or similar roles the reason why that individual has been selected for redundancy. Refusing to take a pay cut is not a valid reason btw.

If the company ploughs on regardless then the employee can take action for a number of causes.

Wrongful selection. Unfair dismissal. Constructive dismissal. Breach of contract.

Actually it's more straightforward to make all employees redundant but then the business would need to go into the insolvency process.

Re: Tigers players rejecting 75% wage cut?
Brownian Motion 27 March, 2020 11:25
It's pretty easy to come up with a reason off the back of that consultation, companies do this regularly without any compunction. And if you have been employed by them for less than two years you have very, very little recourse even if you know you've been screwed.

Re: Tigers players rejecting 75% wage cut?
SK 88 27 March, 2020 11:27
Quote:
Fat Boy
SK88 - maybe it is as bad as all that, perhaps I've just been lucky with employers and have an over-optimistic outlook. I think the 25% pay cut is perfectly reasonable if implemented appropriately (i.e. agreed with people in advance of announcing it, and only for the duration of business being interrupted), but if management don't/haven't treated people well it will come back to bite them and maybe that's what this is - I guess we'll find out soon enough one way or another.

100% agree. The reduction sounds perfectly reasonable, if done properly.

But so far we have only seen the club's statement which doesn't deal with the questions raised and a newspaper article saying the players had not agreed to the cut prior to it being announced.

Re: Tigers players rejecting 75% wage cut?
Jon T 27 March, 2020 11:37
Quote:
KevinR
25% wage cut (as previously reported) according to the article?

Corrected. - cheers.

Re: Tigers players rejecting 75% wage cut?
IDLETIMES 27 March, 2020 11:41
Of course, the players may, sensibly, simply be taking the advice off RPA for the time being. As many of us have said, we are in unknown territory.

Re: Tigers players rejecting 75% wages?
Jon T 27 March, 2020 11:45
Will be interesting to see if theres any truth in this. Certainly as I see it you must agree to the change and it seems reasonable to lodge a letter of the type being suggested. However I would be surprised if a little give and take isnt the end result. What's the point in helping clubs go bust or a post coronavirus league where all get offered lower yearly deals in the end.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/03/2020 15:23 by Jon T.

Re: Tigers players rejecting 75% wages?
ChrisC 27 March, 2020 12:13
Quote:
Brownian Motion
It's pretty easy to come up with a reason off the back of that consultation, companies do this regularly without any compunction. And if you have been employed by them for less than two years you have very, very little recourse even if you know you've been screwed.

Well happily it's some years since I had the task of making people redundant but the fact that an employee has less than a given number of years service didn't mean that he/she could be treated unfairly.

I never found a reliable way of avoiding consultation without the employee having recourse at tribunal.

But of course you may be right and have more recent experience in this kind of matter.

However my guess is that the players all have fixed term contracts and were a player to be dismissed due to redundancy then he would be due pay for the rest of the contract as compensation and that compensation would probably be more than a tribunal award anyway.

What a tribunal could do is order reinstatement though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/03/2020 12:14 by ChrisC.

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