Latest news:

Next Game: To be confirmed....


Ring fencing by virus?
Discussion started by Yorkie , 24 May, 2020 11:41
Ring fencing by virus?
Yorkie 24 May, 2020 11:41
If Championship clubs end up bust, semi-pro or even amateur again?

The financial gap between Prem and Championship will just become too great in a post virus world? RFU trying to wriggle out of properly funding their league so should they be cut loose and some teams taken under PRL's umbrella? (Not that PRL seem to be a "better" organisation!)

And the talent pool/squad in the Championship will just not be able to step up over a 6 week summer and compete in the Prem. So, by default, relegation and promotion becomes even more pointless than in the recent past.

Hate the thought of no relegation and promotion.

Wonder which Championship clubs have real ambition to stay fully professional and step up to the Prem?

Newcastle (obviously!)
Ealing
Cornish Pirates

Coventry and Jersey are maybes? Jersey probably more "maybe" than Coventry?


So why not take 4 "serious" clubs from the Championship and let them join the Prem clubs. (Would have to be on a full equal 16 way split of all central funding.) Then create 2 leagues. Leagues and not conferences. Prem 1 and Prem 2. Bottom 2 in Prem 1 relegated and top 2 in Prem 2 promoted. Hopefully there will be enough good clashes in Prem 2 for them to get some of the TV coverage.

Ring fence this. But with a review every, say, 3 years in case you get another Yorkshire Carnegie implosion within one of the 16 clubs and someone below with the funding and ambition to go fully professional.

All win win. Clubs get their "ring fenced" security. Relegation and promotion still exists. Championship clubs who really don't want to compete financially and don't want to get spanked by the Prem club amongst them can relax. RFU happy as they'll have more cash to spend on gin and port. Players have less games.

This virus has halted the runaway train and so clean piece of paper ideas can and should be given house room.

Will this happen? No, of course it won't. Existing Prem clubs won't want to share what is theirs with the incoming 4. Some might not be able to afford to share! But the Prem clubs looking over the financial cliff edge might up falling well below the Championship?

I hope the reformation opportunity is not spurned in a big cloud of self interest and politics.



http://www.jakehowlett.com/tuckshop/wrappers/chocolate/plain/yorkie-nutter.jpg

Re: Ring fencing by virus?
Rich W 24 May, 2020 13:25
It's a good idea - but as you say won't happen because the very clubs that want ring fencing because they can't run their businesses properly will refuse to share what they've got - even if this meant the total pot would probably grow.



...

Re: Ring fencing by virus?
SK 88 24 May, 2020 13:39
Presuming it was done fairly I think Ealing, Cornwall, Doncaster, Coventry & Bedford would be willing and able.

If it was a fair system I think Nottingham might be interested too, their chairman is vocal that he has ambition but doesn't see the point in pouring money down the drain in a rigged system.

I think this is a better system than a 12 team boring ring fence and could support this if it was sold correctly.

Re: Ring fencing by virus?
arh53 24 May, 2020 13:40
An 8 team league isn't sustainable in terms of income. Especially if the TV money is reduced by going to bigger pool of clubs. The Pay Offs will presumably have to go too - with half the league involved in them it becomes even more pointless than it is now. The only thing it achieves is to make more room in the season for more unwanted international games, so the RFU might actually like the idea.

Re: Ring fencing by virus?
jojo 24 May, 2020 13:41
My thoughts too arh

Re: Ring fencing by virus?
SK 88 24 May, 2020 13:51
So on those points ...

More clubs brings in more fans and more areas to the league. This can generate more subscribers and more value to the TV deal. Enough to off set the feeding of more mouths? Depends how you set it up.

A league of 14 games, plus 6 in Europe would be played entirely with our first choice players, this is how many games they actually play at the moment. You'd therefore be selling a better product with fewer (none?) compromised games.

No crossovers with internationals means you need fewer players, roughly 13 fewer based on our team selections of recent seasons. That's also a cost saving. You could also play a larger Prem Cup type competition during the internationals to make up extra games.

It is a key point you are right to make, we cover our fixed costs by playing 16 home games, shrinking that is risky. But as above there are other factors to consider too.

Re: Ring fencing by virus?
Yorkie 24 May, 2020 13:56
Quote:
SK 88
Presuming it was done fairly I think Ealing, Cornwall, Doncaster, Coventry & Bedford would be willing and able.
If it was a fair system I think Nottingham might be interested too, their chairman is vocal that he has ambition but doesn't see the point in pouring money down the drain in a rigged system.

I think this is a better system than a 12 team boring ring fence and could support this if it was sold correctly.

Thought Bedford had always said in the past that the Prem wasn't for them? I hear that, despite what their Chair might say publicly, Nottingham are not interested in being Pro and playing with the big boys having being burnt in the past and believing that they're unlikely to generate enough support in their football city. Doncaster I know nothing about.



http://www.jakehowlett.com/tuckshop/wrappers/chocolate/plain/yorkie-nutter.jpg

Re: Ring fencing by virus?
Brownian Motion 24 May, 2020 13:58
Quote:
SK 88
Presuming it was done fairly I think Ealing, Cornwall, Doncaster, Coventry & Bedford would be willing and able.

Rotherham were at one point, too. Tricky now that they're in Nat1 though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24/05/2020 14:04 by Brownian Motion.

Re: Ring fencing by virus?
Yorkie 24 May, 2020 14:00
Quote:
arh53
An 8 team league isn't sustainable in terms of income. Especially if the TV money is reduced by going to bigger pool of clubs. The Pay Offs will presumably have to go too - with half the league involved in them it becomes even more pointless than it is now. The only thing it achieves is to make more room in the season for more unwanted international games, so the RFU might actually like the idea.

Agree but this needs to be promoted as a 16 club competition. CVC can earn their returns by using their marketing skills?

Extra time created could give players more time off? There could be some kind of cup competition? Create interest by publicising the Academy games? Giving them tv time? More product for BT?



http://www.jakehowlett.com/tuckshop/wrappers/chocolate/plain/yorkie-nutter.jpg

Re: Ring fencing by virus?
Yorkie 24 May, 2020 14:02
Quote:
SK 88
So on those points ...
More clubs brings in more fans and more areas to the league. This can generate more subscribers and more value to the TV deal. Enough to off set the feeding of more mouths? Depends how you set it up.

A league of 14 games, plus 6 in Europe would be played entirely with our first choice players, this is how many games they actually play at the moment. You'd therefore be selling a better product with fewer (none?) compromised games.

No crossovers with internationals means you need fewer players, roughly 13 fewer based on our team selections of recent seasons. That's also a cost saving. You could also play a larger Prem Cup type competition during the internationals to make up extra games.

It is a key point you are right to make, we cover our fixed costs by playing 16 home games, shrinking that is risky. But as above there are other factors to consider too.

Good points all. Bigger picture sometimes more revealing and worth more.



http://www.jakehowlett.com/tuckshop/wrappers/chocolate/plain/yorkie-nutter.jpg

Re: Ring fencing by virus?
Rich W 24 May, 2020 14:13
Agreed.

I don' t think it's a solution without problems but it has significant potential upsides and offer the possibility of growth for the game at a time when that might be particularly important.



...

Re: Ring fencing by virus?
SK 88 24 May, 2020 15:05
Quote:
Yorkie
Quote:
SK 88
Presuming it was done fairly I think Ealing, Cornwall, Doncaster, Coventry & Bedford would be willing and able.
If it was a fair system I think Nottingham might be interested too, their chairman is vocal that he has ambition but doesn't see the point in pouring money down the drain in a rigged system.

I think this is a better system than a 12 team boring ring fence and could support this if it was sold correctly.

Thought Bedford had always said in the past that the Prem wasn't for them? I hear that, despite what their Chair might say publicly, Nottingham are not interested in being Pro and playing with the big boys having being burnt in the past and believing that they're unlikely to generate enough support in their football city. Doncaster I know nothing about.

I believe Bedford's view has always been that they aren't going to bankrupt themselves trying to meet minimum standards critera that are needlessly high, and aren't going to go bonkers spending money when even f you are promoted you don't get a fair shake at it. Occasionally people misinterpret that stance as never wanting promotion, rather than not breaking their back for a unfair system.

As an indication that there is some ambition in the background, there was a submission from them for Bedford's town plan to give up some of their land to the hospital near the ground in exchange for the hospital or who ever building them a new ground on their current site that would meet promotion requirements. I don't think that town plan happened at all because it was several years ago now and none of the proposals happened I think.

I think if the line between "pro" and "grassroots" was being drawn they would want to be on the inside if they could.

Re: Ring fencing by virus?
Tiggs 24 May, 2020 15:09
TV companies want the big names is as many games as possible, other games have little value to them. That is why Eng games generate so much money for RFU



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/103/103_0_1529059667.jpg

Re: Ring fencing by virus?
Brownian Motion 24 May, 2020 15:22
The trick, therefore, is to convince the TV companies that there are more 'big names', by growing the whole competition.

Re: Ring fencing by virus?
SK 88 24 May, 2020 15:35
TV pay for subscribers.

Some people subscribe for rugby generally, some people subscribe because of watching "their club".

Test cases would be BT sports subscriptions in Coventry and Bristol before/after the move and the promotion.

Re: Ring fencing by virus?
IDLETIMES 24 May, 2020 16:25
Gold idea from Yorkie but that is the exact reason it won't happen plus who does Yorkie think he is, he is just a fan who has a passionate interest in Tigers and rugby in general so his opinion counts for nothing.

Re: Ring fencing by virus?
SimonG19 24 May, 2020 16:37
Six full-time clubs in the Championship next season - Saracens, Ealing, Cornish Pirates, Coventry, Jersey and Doncaster - and six part time - Bedford, Nottingham, Ampthill, Hartpury, Richmond and London Scottish - at the time of writing.

Of course that's not to say the full-timers have an ambition to be in the Premiership or that the part-timers don't.

And if all the doom and gloom about the future of club rugby were to prove true being part-time might be the way to go in the Premiership anyway.

Re: Ring fencing by virus?
johnthegrif 25 May, 2020 11:22
I hate the idea of ring fencing but recognise it may come to pass. I still think we need a minimum of 12 teams in a division and two fully professional divisions. The RFU and Premiership rugby have got to get their act together and make this happen. In France clubs are aided by so many towns having Municipal stadiums that meet ground standard and safety criteria. In this country it would have to be done with rugby negotiating ground share with other sports such as football or rugby league, I don't see that as being impossible.

Re: Ring fencing by virus?
IDLETIMES 25 May, 2020 11:41
Think you are correct there John. When all this is over, club rugby will be in one hell of a state financially with Tigers being in a better position than most but some assistance is going to be needed

Re: Ring fencing by virus?
maire88 25 May, 2020 17:37
Sorry, hit enter by mistake. Nottingham have been pro until this season for at least as long as Iíve supported them (and thatís ten years and Iím sure they were pro before that) so Iím puzzled why you think Yorkie that theyíve never been interested in being pro. I can remember a time not so very long ago where we were audited for the Prem and fully intended to take up a place there should we be successful, unlike Bedford we have never said that we wouldnít. We still have (or had Iím not sure of the ins and outs of it) an agreement that were we to be promoted we could move back to the Prem compliant Meadow Lane.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 25/05/2020 17:42 by maire88.


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net