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Ring Fencing!!
Discussion started by harlequinade , 29 July, 2020 16:20
Ring Fencing!!
harlequinade 29 July, 2020 16:20
"Promotion to Gallagher Premiership will cease from 2021-22 season until 2025 at the earliest, under proposals for The English Championship. A "promotion and relegation commission" chaired by an independent QC would decide on promotion thereafter.
says twitter!!"

no confirmation yet proposal apparently.
inews

I am inclined to not bother much with premiership and international rugby any more!
Even though it has been my main sporting interest for the last 57 years?
Is it just me?



Life is short,
and art long,
opportunity fleeting,
experimentations perilous,
and judgment difficult.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 29/07/2020 16:34 by harlequinade.

Re: Ring Fencing!!
Rich W 29 July, 2020 16:25
nope



...

Re: Ring Fencing!!
RushdenTiger (KT at work) 29 July, 2020 16:28
Just long enough (plus another season in case something doesn't go to plan or they're fined again for another as yet hidden misdemeanour) to get Saracens back in then.

I assume after that's happened the league will consist of 13 teams.

Re: Ring Fencing!!
Stopsy 29 July, 2020 16:48
Supporting my local club just got a lot more attractive.

If its such a good idea, why wait until 2021, no time like the present to implement ideas that are good for the game and player welfare.


Pull the draw bridge up after you Saracens as proposed by a former Saracens person, all the integrity of Donald Trump!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 29/07/2020 16:54 by Stopsy.

Re: Ring Fencing!!
IDLETIMES 29 July, 2020 20:04
That just about sums it up 'Stops'.

Re: Ring Fencing!!
Yorkie 29 July, 2020 20:11
TBH, it all sounds like a bit of a pipe dream. And an ill thought out and incomplete one at that.



http://www.jakehowlett.com/tuckshop/wrappers/chocolate/plain/yorkie-nutter.jpg

Re: Ring Fencing!!
Stopsy 29 July, 2020 20:37
You have to take your hat off to the RFU’s selection of consultant to reach the required conclusion

Re: Ring Fencing!!
PrestonTiger 30 July, 2020 00:00
yep it's coming. Too much vested £££.
Covid19 is going to be the convenient excuse for it.

Re: Ring Fencing!!
Fat Boy 30 July, 2020 08:09
Can someone clarify for me please - does this mean that if Borthwick doesn't generate the desired improvement, and next season we are bottom of the table then Tigers will be stuck in the Championship until 2025 at least? Could make for a very negative and stressful campaign for those at the bottom - whether or not Tigers are in that group.

If all 13 members of PRL will be protected, then relegation isn't happening next year either. Though I have to say 13 seems an odd number of teams to have. It would add an extra 4 weeks to the season, no different to having 14 teams. If you were going to increase the number of teams 14 makes more sense, but you then need to think about what you drop to make space for that in the season.

If not going to 13/14 teams who is it 'acceptable' to lose next season? Can't imagine many clubs will be happy to lose Tigers and the boost to their coffers from one of the bigger travelling supporter groups. What if Saracens don't actually win the Championship (unlikely but could happen), would this particular adviser suggest putting it back a year? I'd be gutted if Saints went down and we no longer had that local derby to look forward to. And I'm sure other teams would be missed as well if they had to disappear for 4 years (or forever if the inability to bounce back up bankrupted them - which I'm guessing it would for us and many others).

Re: Ring Fencing!!
Stopsy 30 July, 2020 08:52
I'm pretty sure that were Saracens to fail to gain promotion there would be some mechanism to ensure they weren't locked out until 2025. Utterly disgraceful in my opinion. Implement it now if it is so clever, surely all clubs are equal...

Re: Ring Fencing!!
shendy 30 July, 2020 13:20
So a commission would assess promotion and relegation.

One thing you wouldn't want is promotion/relegation being assessed (for example) every 5 years, and a side having a one-off bad season finishing bottom of the Prem in that 5th year and suddenly gets dumped down to Tier 2 for 5 years!
But conversely, you could have a team finishing in 11th place every year, with a different team in last place each time - could you relegate a side who had never actually finished bottom?

I can see lawyers rubbing their hands in anticipation of the legal cases!

Re: Ring Fencing!!
Rich W 30 July, 2020 13:42
surely - and I'm not seeking to justify any form of ring-fencing - the point of having a commission would be to make those subjective decisions to that those circumstances cannot arise?



...

Re: Ring Fencing!!
John Tee 30 July, 2020 14:04
I think ring fencing in a sport like rugby is ridiculous.
Who wants to watch a league where half the games are glorified friendlies...?
I think this will over make clubs more beholden to the RFU money which therefore benefits the RFU because this isnt going to increase gates imv.

Re: Ring Fencing!!
Stopsy 30 July, 2020 14:28
The whole proposition is to give the RFU the powers they wish to have from the PRL.

Promotion and relegation should be on performance on the pitch (adjusted for cheating). If a promoted team doesn't want it the offer to the next.

The current ground standards are over the top for the sport in England, look at the attendances of some clubs, why do they need a big stadium that is rarely filled? Watching meaningless friendlies will not fill stadia either.

Re: Ring Fencing!!
IDLETIMES 30 July, 2020 14:38
Stopsy, you and Rich are talking far too much sense, you must stop,

Re: Ring Fencing!!
John Tee 30 July, 2020 14:44
I do think ground criteria is important so i wouldn't dilute that myself.
You want a good and comfortable viewing experience.

I think the game should be played on grass so therefore id make that a condition of promotion and grounds need to confirm to basic standards with regards to facilities.. We have enough knowledge from football to know what is a safe ground so start there.
Id also think gates should determine club budget so a well run and funded club is another criteria. Fair play schemes should rule out sugardaddys until the game is on a sound self financing footing.

Then once clubs are solvent they can consider voting to retain power over their contracted players and investments rather than have the RFU terms and conditions and all that entails..player welfare etc...

If a team is good enough they should qualify by playing standards alone by winning the league. Then other criteria needs to be met or
the chance of promotion offered to next in line.
No way should clubs finishing last have their place in the league garanteed, imv.

Re: Ring Fencing!!
IDLETIMES 30 July, 2020 14:54
Like Stopsy, I give them fair warning, bring in ring fencing and I am out

Re: Ring Fencing!!
SK 88 30 July, 2020 15:41
Quote:
John Tee
I do think ground criteria is important so i wouldn't dilute that myself.
You want a good and comfortable viewing experience.

I think the game should be played on grass so therefore id make that a condition of promotion and grounds need to confirm to basic standards with regards to facilities.. We have enough knowledge from football to know what is a safe ground so start there.
Id also think gates should determine club budget so a well run and funded club is another criteria. Fair play schemes should rule out sugardaddys until the game is on a sound self financing footing.

Then once clubs are solvent they can consider voting to retain power over their contracted players and investments rather than have the RFU terms and conditions and all that entails..player welfare etc...

If a team is good enough they should qualify by playing standards alone by winning the league. Then other criteria needs to be met or
the chance of promotion offered to next in line.
No way should clubs finishing last have their place in the league garanteed, imv.

So I agree but feel you can have lower standards and still achieve the aims set out.

The key in the UK system is agreed planning consent. If you have that it doesn't matter too much what your current capacity is, because expansion when needed is agreed. Bedford for instance could sympathetically redevelop Goldington Road to a size suitable for their current needs (c.6,000k capacity with a mix of seats and standing would be reasonable, they sell almost this much for their biggest games at the moment) but with better seating facilities and other facilities to improve everyone's experience. They could then build further stands if and when required.

Realistically Football Conference level facilities would be a huge improvement for Championship club fans, are far more realistically achievable and perfectly adequate for Premiership rugby.

What would be a big positive step is the MSC starting at Nat 2 (i.e. the national leagues) and stepping up realistically but progressively. For instance have two types of criteria "Membership" and "Entry". The "Membership" criteria of one division would be the "Entry" criteria of the league above. The idea would be you get promoted and then within a set period (3 years? 5 years?) must meet the "membership" criteria of the league, which is the "entry" of the league above. Those that wish to rise quickly would have to improve their grounds quickly too.

We also need a better balance between parachute payments, "solidarity payments" to the Champ and RFU funding of various leagues.

Re: Ring Fencing!!
Yorkie 30 July, 2020 20:48
Quote:
Rich W
surely - and I'm not seeking to justify any form of ring-fencing - the point of having a commission would be to make those subjective decisions to that those circumstances cannot arise?

Just got to love you Rich and your inbuilt sense of fair play!

This "commission". Who decides who will be a member? It's size? The amount of bias allowed for each member? And exactly what agenda its Chairperson uses to direct it? Etc, etc, etc ...........

"subjective decisions"! (Sm22) Which are fair and not influenced? (Sm22) You reckon?

Remember that this is a process which will involve the rfu blazers and prl ..........

Think about it for a very short moment .......

You sure?



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Re: Ring Fencing!!
RushdenTiger (KT at work) 30 July, 2020 21:52
Quote:
John Tee
think ring fencing in a sport like rugby is ridiculous.
Who wants to watch a league where half the games are glorified friendlies...?
I think this will over make clubs more beholden to the RFU money which therefore benefits the RFU because this isnt going to increase gates imv.

While I don't necessarily agree with ring fencing I don't get this 'glorified friendlies' argument. Most teams would I argue be playing for at least a place in the top European competitions right up to the end of the season.

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