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Premiership attendances .
Discussion started by Waldo , 10 June, 2019 14:42
Premiership attendances .
Waldo 10 June, 2019 14:42
The figures below are courtesy of bristolpost.co.uk

I know we are hampered by capacity constraints at AzP ( and some would say competition with the local other sports ie footy) - but this is one table we are nowhere near the top of at 9th !

Re: Premiership attendances .
Primavesi2 10 June, 2019 15:04
If only there was a trophy for that!

Re: Premiership attendances .
JO'G 10 June, 2019 16:42
Interesting that even after we added the London Arena figurues in we had more spectators in the season than Northampton

With the fairly high charges for admission at AzP I wonder what the values for entrance were - I'm thinking that we might get much higher.

Re: Premiership attendances .
PhillFez 14 June, 2019 08:46
I'm not sure a big increase is a good idea although I know commercial viability depends on this. An average of 16k+ at the Ricoh must include some indifferent viewers who have been behaving more like wendyball followers barracking the ref. (Sm159)

Re: Premiership attendances .
myleftboot 14 June, 2019 08:58
Quote:
PhillFez
I'm not sure a big increase is a good idea although I know commercial viability depends on this. An average of 16k+ at the Ricoh must include some indifferent viewers who have been behaving more like wendyball followers barracking the ref. (Sm159)
although 4000 more than the homeless football team the stadium was built for. Even allowing for the section of Cov support boycotting SISU that's quite surprising.

Re: Premiership attendances .
Duncan96 14 June, 2019 09:12
Quote:
JO'G
Interesting that even after we added the London Arena figurues in we had more spectators in the season than Northampton
With the fairly high charges for admission at AzP I wonder what the values for entrance were - I'm thinking that we might get much higher.

You must be right. Im an example of another aspect of that. I often work away at weekends so miss a lot of games in a season. If I was a Wasps supporter that would be no problem as Id just buy match tickets and be sure of getting a very good seat at a low price (its a pig to get to for a semi final especially when they cancel the trains but I find the sight lines and facilities at the Ricoh, well beer anyway, to be first rate).

If I want a good seat at Saracens for every game I want to go to I have to buy a high price season ticket. Not a moan btw, just a fact.

So, the business case of 10,000 capacity for a small team in North London competing in a football dominated area has been sound up till now as the revenues must be much higher than if we had a 20,000 capacity stadium selling 16,000 seats at half the price.

The challenge comes soon for NW and the team I think because it was my impression that there were more than 10,000 Saracens supporters at each of Newcastle and Twickenham.

I hope we see some increased capacity, not just increased prices.

Re: Premiership attendances .
Quinten Poulsen 14 June, 2019 17:43
Quote:
JO'G
Interesting that even after we added the London Arena figurues in we had more spectators in the season than Northampton

But not when you add in their Twickenham game against Tigers, which is incorrectly shown as a Tigers home game.

Anyway, some good attendances there - I wonder how this past season compares to previous ones.

Re: Premiership attendances .
SarrieSaint 14 June, 2019 18:06
Does anyone know via friends of a friend, nudge, nudge, wink, wink how the repricing worked out? Did make money for the club in the end or was it a miscalculation? I've not been to many games this season but on TV there's been a lot of empty space for many matches.

Re: Premiership attendances .
OhMaroItoje 14 June, 2019 19:27
if we had the stadium and prices of Bristol I think wed be getting at least the same figures as them if not higher. The 10,000 capacity is killing us as we have to charge such high prices due to the limited no. seats. The club should be looking to upgrade to 15,000 permanent capacity within 5 years and 20,000 within 10 years in my opinion.

Re: Premiership attendances .
Sara'sman 05 July, 2019 15:06
I've spotted that just as we are reducing our capacity to 8.5k, Exeter are increasing theirs to 13.5k for the coming season. And when we move up to 10.5k, hopefully in 20/21 they intend to have an impressive 15k by building above the East Terrace.

There can be little doubt that, despite high prices, our relatively low capacity will continue to hinder the goal of breaking even at worst. As mentioned in the Barnet Copthall thread, hope for further growth (to 15k?) lies in bigger/better temporary stands behind the goals once (if?) the second athletics track is built. And, of course, getting permission! Hopefully this will provide more lower priced tickets and slightly better views which should help our crowds to grow. 4000 extra tickets @ an average of 250 would generate 1m + other sales - costs. Still some way to go!

I'd not realised that "Ground Pass" (i.e. standing) is split from Red & Black - is this new? Although the same next year might this lead to price differentiation in the future?

Re: Premiership attendances .
JO'G 05 July, 2019 15:11
ground pass is a good option if you have mates who are season ticket holders nd you are a casual visitor. There is nearly always someone in our area who doesn't come along

Re: Premiership attendances .
Sara'sman 09 July, 2019 10:38
I've been looking at adult non-concession season ticket prices.

A - Half Way
B - 25m (just outside the 22)
C - 5m line
D - Behind posts
E - Behind posts 5m from corner
S - Standing on side of pitch (averaged)
M - Cheapest seat in stadium

Where front/back have different prices, I've averaged them. Where there is an Early Bird discount I've again averaged with the normal price. In red are percentages compared to our corresponding prices. All ignoring corporate.

                A      B      C      D      E      S         M
Saracens
Main          1080    700    585    300    300    300       300
Opposite       n/a    700    470    300    300     - 
Northampton
Main           720    575    450    450    450    363       180
                67     82     77    150    150    121        60
Opposite       585    565    450    505    450     -
                -      81     96    168    150

A marked difference in the pricing structures:
* Our best seat prices are much higher
* Our North and South stands are much better value
* Saints have cheap tickets in their corners

Data taken from: Sarries and Saints.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2019 12:18 by Sara'sman.

Re: Premiership attendances .
Sara'sman 09 July, 2019 11:02
                A      B      C      D      E      S         M
Saracens
Main          1080    700    585    300    300    300       300
Opposite       n/a    700    470    300    300     - 
Leicester
Main           475    399    320    435    320     -        320
                44     57     55    145    107              107
Opposite       399    360    320    345    320    240
                -      51     68    115    107   (80)

Source: Tigers.

Even better value on the sides, again pricier behind the posts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2019 12:20 by Sara'sman.

Re: Premiership attendances .
Sara'sman 09 July, 2019 11:21
                A      B      C      D      E      S         M
Saracens  
Main          1080    700    585    300    300    300       300
Opposite       n/a    700    470    300    300     - 
Sale
Main           700    378    378     -      -     259*      336
                65     54     65                 (86)       112
Opposite       336    336    336     -      -     259*
                -      48     71

* Sale's standing is behind the posts (both ends).

Source: Sharks.

Very good value, though their cheapest seats are just a little dearer than ours (but not behind their posts).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2019 12:21 by Sara'sman.

Re: Premiership attendances .
Sara'sman 09 July, 2019 12:14
                A      B      C      D      E      S         M
Saracens  
Main          1080    700    585    300    300    300       300
Opposite       n/a    700    470    300    300     - 
Harlequins
Main           723    618    480    360    248     -        248            
                67     88    102    120     83               83
Opposite       723    618    480    360    248     -
                -      88    102    120     83

NB: Quins have a few rows of cheaper seats (affected by "walkers" at the front of their Main and Opposite stands - I've ignored these with their interrupted views. They also offer cheaper renewal prices than standard - I've averaged them.

Source: Quins.

Probably our main rivals pricing wise. It seems:
* Our best seats cost significantly more
* Away from the best, prices are similar though Quins differentiate behind the posts.



                A      B      C      D      E      S         M
Saracens  
Main          1080    700    585    300    300    300       300
Opposite       n/a    700    470    300    300     - 
Exeter
Main            ?      ?      ?     535    385     -        385
                                    178    128              128    
Opposite        -      -      -      -      -     443
                                                  148

Source: Chiefs.

Expensive - and the best are sold out! If anyone (Ex visitor?) can fill in the gaps, please advise (A - half way, B - 25m out, C - 5m line) all seat only.

Re: Premiership attendances .
Sara'sman 09 July, 2019 13:20
Last one, using an old seating plan.

                A      B      C      D      E      S         M
Saracens  
Main          1080    700    585    300    300    300       300
Opposite       n/a    700    470    300    300     - 
Bath
Main           596    596    388    388    388     -        388
                55     85     66    129    129              129
Opposite       535    489    388     -      -   (329)*
                -      70     83                 110

* behind posts. Sources Bath and seating plan.

Once again, our better seats are more expensive, behind the posts better value. This probably shows how Bath's prices are constrained by the open nature of their current stadium, though they've been leading the way of late in % of seats sold.

Re: Premiership attendances .
Rinkadink 10 July, 2019 01:14
Quote:
OhMaroItoje
if we had the stadium and prices of Bristol I think wed be getting at least the same figures as them if not higher.

Why isn't every game at AP sold out, then?

Be interesting to see what happens with Bears' attendances if they manage a period of sustained success. From the championship to second highest home ground attendance in the country is quite the achievement in the space of a year.

Re: Premiership attendances .
Waldo 10 July, 2019 06:40
Nice work Sara'sman

Re: Premiership attendances .
Garp285 10 July, 2019 11:38
Quote:
Rinkadink
Quote:
OhMaroItoje
if we had the stadium and prices of Bristol I think wed be getting at least the same figures as them if not higher.

Why isn't every game at AP sold out, then?

Be interesting to see what happens with Bears' attendances if they manage a period of sustained success. From the championship to second highest home ground attendance in the country is quite the achievement in the space of a year.

Because we haven't got their stadium and our prices are much higher? I think OMI is over-egging it a bit but we would have much better attendances if tickets were deemed better value. Last season (17/18), before the cock-up with season ticket recategorisation in the Main Stand, we had quite a few sell outs, this season not so many!
Bears' attendance has been great this season and I hope they can keep it up in the coming one. Reading about their season ticket sales, it certainly looks like they will.

Re: Premiership attendances .
JO'G 10 July, 2019 13:40
If i had a bit of time i would take your excellent figures Sarasmsn and try and exteaplate into revenue.

Assume a percentage of ticket spread. 5% for most expensive and cheapest. Work inwards going up to 10% 15% .... then basing the ground attendance to the %age x prices in each category . Arriving at a nominal ground revenue

Interesting to see how the grounds compare then

Re: Premiership attendances .
Sara'sman 10 July, 2019 14:43
JO'G - I think revenue is a key point when we're "attacked" for having small crowds for such a successful team (and perhaps become a little too defensive when explaining the reasons). Extrapolating from the above is very imprecise - for example: I've only considered one price bracket; from seating plans I also noticed that we appear to have a higher proportion of higher priced tickets than other clubs (Ex apart). ...

During the cricket break this morning I took a look at Bristol - consistently ~52% to 62% lower than ours, and extrapolated to income from average gates. I reckoned that despite their impressive crowds there was little difference, especially if hospitality was included. Unfortunately my laptop couldn't cope when I nipped across to look at the fixtures and I lost the post when it crashed but can repeat if it would interest anyone. (I wanted to look at Pests too but can't find their prices).

Re: Premiership attendances .
AP 10 July, 2019 19:56
Presumably our seats behind the pots are cheaper because they are temporary stands?

I'm not complaining!



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