Latest news:
New Page 1

Whatever your views on Saracens, whether a Sarries fan or not, leave them here.

To leave a message on this board you must register. To register click HERE, it takes only a minute.
Non-rugby posts are welcome, but please prefix your subject header with "OT" or "Off Topic".


Thought for the Day:
ANOTHER SEMI-FINAL

Latest: SARACENS 28:21 HARLEQUINS
Next: SARACENS v NORTHAMPTON SAINTS
Sat 19th Oct Allianz 15.00 GP

Audio: Click the link below. If it ain' there, it ain't on!
Upcoming TV: Sat 19th Oct Northampton Saints v Saracens GP BT Sport 2 15.00

BBC Online Rugby Union Commentaries

The Fish | Rugby Union News | Fez Boys | Saracens Fixtures | The SSA | Rugby on TV


Faz & HIA
Discussion started by BACK TO BLACK , 05 October, 2019 10:09
Faz & HIA
BACK TO BLACK 05 October, 2019 10:09
Can anybody explain why Faz hasn't been submitted for an HIA on both occasions that he's taken a direct shot to the head? His kicking is off colour against Argentina at 0 - 4 which is unheard of . Hope he's ok.

Re: Faz & HIA
Sarriebone 05 October, 2019 11:51
Can only assume that the onfield medics assessed him and decided he didn't need a full one.

Owen Farrell on two blows to the head in nine days: ďI feel fine. Itís obviously concussion thatís the worry, but I didnít get hit anywhere near the top of the head. Maybe your jaw gets a bit sore but there was no need for an HIA."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2019 13:00 by Sarriebone.

Re: Faz & HIA
AnneGran 05 October, 2019 12:58
I was also concerned for Owen considering missed kicks. I hope you are right Sarriebone
AnneGran.

Re: Faz & HIA
John Tee 05 October, 2019 14:31
Surprised he hasnt had to go through HIA.
Not worried about his kicking today, it is not unknown for him to have a stinky kicking day. Hopefully this is his one bad one this whole world cup

Re: Faz & HIA
Garp285 05 October, 2019 14:47
Quote:
Sarriebone
Can only assume that the onfield medics assessed him and decided he didn't need a full one.
Owen Farrell on two blows to the head in nine days: ďI feel fine. Itís obviously concussion thatís the worry, but I didnít get hit anywhere near the top of the head. Maybe your jaw gets a bit sore but there was no need for an HIA."
I think his comments here hit the nail on the head, unlike on Faz. I think the one against USA was worse (from HIA perspective) but today's was more neck area, I thought. He was straight back up and didn't appear groggy (kicking aside!). Ultimately, that's what the medics get paid for.

Re: Faz & HIA
SarrieSaint 05 October, 2019 15:39
Tricky one but tbh I thought with that being the second big collision, Farrell seemingly a bit off and the game in control there would have been no harm in taking him off at half time. Ofc he won't want to come off but as we've heard before from both Vunipolae players frequently make calls that aren't in their own best interests and that's when you need a neutral to step in.

On a more general point I also thought we saw the issue with a kicker who is also a Captain. Everyone can have an off day but I wonder if you can have the objectivity as Captain if you might need to change kicker if that's you too?

Re: Faz & HIA
SBFez 05 October, 2019 16:45
I would like to think had this been a tighter match Farrell/his team-mates might have realised that handing over to Ford would be a wise option once the 3rd/4th had gone array?- his kicking off the tee recently has been pretty good IIRC?

Re: Faz & HIA
SarrieSaint 05 October, 2019 23:56
Quote:
SBFez
His kicking off the tee recently has been pretty good IIRC?

It has and his positional kicking including restarts has been exceptional. It's actually a really interesting point about at what stage do you swap out a kicker? All bar one of Farrells kicks in the first half were narrow misses. The first was before the head-shot. If you look at the kicking chart the four he missed first half were near as damn it in the same position as the four he nailed in the second half. Is that the mark of an exceptional kicker adapting to the mistakes of his first kick from that position or just one who wasn't quite on it in the first half? I don't know but that he backed himself says everything about his character. Whether it would have been the right thing in a close game after three misses, who knows?

Re: Faz & HIA
myleftboot 06 October, 2019 12:03
Teams are always far more reluctant than us fans to swap out a kicker with the yips. I remember Glen used to have off days, he'd mis one or two, and you're thinking here we go...

Re: Faz & HIA
shendy 06 October, 2019 16:54
Onfield medics can't (ans can't be allowed to) make an assessment like that - that's why the HIA exists. And Farrel's view on whether he is/was ok is basically irrelevant - it's the medics' view that counts.
I should be obvious that a hit to the head deserving a red card should also be an automatic HIA - not sure how the officials didn't insist on it.

Re: Faz & HIA
Sarriebone 06 October, 2019 17:16
Quote:
shendy
Onfield medics can't (ans can't be allowed to) make an assessment like that - that's why the HIA exists. And Farrel's view on whether he is/was ok is basically irrelevant - it's the medics' view that counts.
I should be obvious that a hit to the head deserving a red card should also be an automatic HIA - not sure how the officials didn't insist on it.

Of course the on field medics can make that decision, they always make the decision if a player needs to go off for an HIA.
Who else is going to make it?
Should a red card high shot be an automatic HIA? Possibly, but currently it's not.

Re: Faz & HIA
shendy 06 October, 2019 17:39
I thought the rule was "blow to the head = HIA", and might it even be suspicion of a blow?
If the ref is sending someone off for a blow to the head, how can the on-field medics possibly justify not sending Farrell for an HIA? Seems like a huge hole in the rules!

Re: Faz & HIA
myleftboot 06 October, 2019 19:11
There's a lot to be said in giving him ten minutes to shake the spiders out! Letting him line up the pen was definitely a bit shady

Re: Faz & HIA
BramleyRoad 07 October, 2019 07:50
Blows to the neck and above now attract a red card. Faz copped a shoulder to the jaw against Argentina. As au recently retired rugby medic that wouldnít automatically lead to an HIA just as a neck collision wouldnít always as well. The anatomy is different.
Itís cranial impact thatís the problem with concussion.
As for persistent hooking his kicks, he tends to kick around the ball rather than through it and that was accentuated against the Argies even before the blow to the jaw. He eventually corrected it.
As for kicking and captaincy Iíd like to see Maro step up.



Supporting Saracens for 52 years

Re: Faz & HIA
John Tee 07 October, 2019 13:44
Quote:
myleftboot
There's a lot to be said in giving him ten minutes to shake the spiders out! Letting him line up the pen was definitely a bit shady

If you need to do that...then automatic HIA, imv.

I think the hit warranted it anyway...i dont think the medical team did him any favours.

Re: Faz & HIA
SarrieSaint 07 October, 2019 14:25
Quote:
shendy
I thought the rule was "blow to the head = HIA", and might it even be suspicion of a blow?
If the ref is sending someone off for a blow to the head, how can the on-field medics possibly justify not sending Farrell for an HIA? Seems like a huge hole in the rules!

I don't know what the rules are tbh but it seems clear from previous HIAs that lack of consciousness (unless you're George North playing for Wales) or looking groggy/stumbling when you get up are very likely to trigger an HIA. No sign of those with Farrell although I think it would be fair to say some of his play in the open field (where he seemed to be much slower to make decisions in the middle 40) perhaps should have triggered something. My basic feeling is if you take a shot like that you should probably be going off just to be safe.

Re: Faz & HIA
myleftboot 07 October, 2019 17:13
Quote:
John Tee
Quote:
myleftboot
There's a lot to be said in giving him ten minutes to shake the spiders out! Letting him line up the pen was definitely a bit shady

If you need to do that...then automatic HIA, imv.

I think the hit warranted it anyway...i dont think the medical team did him any favours.
completely agree, I hope him being causing didn't give him any extra leverage

Re: Faz & HIA
TonyTaff 12 October, 2019 07:46
Quote:
BramleyRoad
As for kicking and captaincy Iíd like to see Maro step up.

As kicker? winking smiley



£721.05 (*) donated to the Saracens Foundation due to visits to the Sarries frontpage [www.rugbynetwork.net]

Please read and submit articles for publication. (*) As at October 31, 2018.


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net