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Quote:Banzai1314
Not sure whether SimonG19 sucks lemons all day or sits on broken glass first thing in the morning just to get really angry. Either way he’s not very happy 😂
Quote:1876-Fez
“How Saracens play now is the least important thing for me in the Premiership,” Baxter said.
Quote:myleftboot
Is the daily hate making this up or is there a snitch in the camp? Like Merseyside and the S*n, just don't kids
[www.dailymail.co.uk]
Quote:Roger GQuote:myleftboot
Is the daily hate making this up or is there a snitch in the camp? Like Merseyside and the S*n, just don't kids
[www.dailymail.co.uk]
What's the gist of this please? My adblocker won't let me look at the artcile, even if I turn it off for the Daily Hate site - a lucky escape maybe.
Quote:tpr's headmistress
You can temporarily switch off Adblock for a read then put it on again (there's a toggle button when you open ABP on the top bar). However the ads drive you mad and it takes forever to get anywhere while they load.
Quote:myleftboot
It's very easy to play "fantasy rugby" when comparing squads. I would suggest you need to look at the circumstances said players came to their clubs to compare relative cost.
Of your few named, Itoje, George and Farrell, our academy. Vunipolae, Mako came from the Championship with a lot of promise, yes, but a gamble if you like, shown by how long from signing to being an established first team er, and Billy was just capped, but it was a one horse race, his mother wanted both boys on the same side and it was felt Wasps treatment of him was poor. Koch was recently out of favour at international level.
I'm not saying that means they were all cheap, but all have mitigating circumstances compared to, say, Bath going out and buying the NotNots academy, why their wages might be slightly less than the "fantasy rugby might suggest. And yes, at least 3 of those are widely touted to be coinvested with Mr Wray...
Quote:myleftboot
....And yes, at least 3 of those are widely touted to be coinvested with Mr Wray...
Quote:Steve_M
My particular question was did anyone know what has changed since the previous few seasons to bring the club under the cap this year ?
Quote:Roger GQuote:Steve_M
My particular question was did anyone know what has changed since the previous few seasons to bring the club under the cap this year ?
You're making the assumption that something has to change, based on your own assement of what they must be earning. However, although it's hard to know the truth without the full judgement being published, there were many press reports that the club hadn't breached the basic cap (plus academy, injury and international allowances), and that the only issue was these one-off investments. Presumably any accrual of these across contracts must've been taken into account otherwise subsequent contract extensions could have clouded the calculation of the fine somewhat. What is also never referred to by our critics is the retirement or release of some probable significant earners (e.g. Bosch, Burger).
Quote:Steve_M
.. If Sarries top players have not signed new contracts for this season then the same percentage of the investments will count this year as they did last year and the year previous, there is no such thing as a 'one-off', that is the whole point of averaging out payments across the length of a contract. Once these players sign new contracts things may be different.
By the way, thank you Roger and myleftboot for entering into a civil discussion of this.
Quote:Steve_M
The one thing we do know for certain is that a panel decided that last year Sarries were in breach of the cap and if nothing has changed since that time, regardless of what the players were actually being paid last year, then if they are getting paid the same this year, regardless of how small their salaries may be, then surely they will be in breach again this season when things are totted up in the spring.
Quote:Steve_M
maybe they play for Sarries for next to nothing as they love the club, good for them
Quote:Steve_M
The one thing we do know for certain is that a panel decided that last year Sarries were in breach of the cap and if nothing has changed since that time, regardless of what the players were actually being paid last year, then if they are getting paid the same this year, regardless of how small their salaries may be, then surely they will be in breach again this season when things are totted up in the spring.
Quote:Duncan, To my mind putting players in touch with advisors to reduce the risk of start-up failure is to be applauded and for me comes under the category of training/education/advice/non-financial-support. Where I think we're on a slippery slope is when money starts changing hands. " I'm putting a bit of money in, will you join me?" could turn into "if you don't want to put money in then what if I gave you money and then you put an equivalent amount in" which risks becoming money laundering to get round the cap - and increase the temptation to use one of the current loopholes which might be already being used by some clubs.Duncan96
He put together investor groupings by saying to his mates "I believe in this, I'm putting a bit of money in, will you join me?" The people he brought in were experienced business people who have helped these inexperienced (in a business sense) rugby players buck the trend of most start ups (which usually go bust) with help and advice well beyond the money (much better than the PRL could do it).
Quote:BlackheathSaracen
I am sure you can make that case Ricardo though its a somewhat flawed argument.
I'd guess he'd claim on the basis that the squad wasn't in cap that any team that played benefited. So even our second team beating Falcons contributed to them going down. The fact that we won the league maybe means that teams whose targets were to be top 4 or 6 or not relegated didn't make it and coaches payed the price.
What all that misses out is that if Saracens hadn't breached the cap they would still have been playing, they wouldn't have mysteriously disappeared from the equation. Maybe they wouldn't have got so far in Europe and so could have concentrated on the Premiership? Maybe those European games wouldn't have convinced Jones that he needed to denude the squad of a third of its starting XV for almost half or every season?
Who knows? maybe Chiefs one actual win wouldn't have come off the back of just beating a thoroughly knackered Saracens team who has played a European Champions Cup final and two other huge finals in the week and month before? Lots of things one could hypothesise on being different.
Quote:EXDJ
Weren’t Sarries meant to have been roughly £650k over the cap each season for the past three seasons (16-17, 17-18 and 18-19)? And didn’t Williams join for the 17-18 season?
Also isn’t he meant to be on roughly £350k per year? He doesn’t feature on any of the lists of highest paid Prem players which start around £400k+