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Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
ElephantJuice 16 January, 2020 23:01
Quote:
Curmujjen
Edward Griffiths playing a blinder. He set the hare running and the hounds are now furiously chasing it hither and thither, leaving him to do his sums in peace and quiet.

Looks like he’s finished doing his sums...

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Saint Stokey 16 January, 2020 23:07
Deleted.



Your owners have made a mockery of your club. Seemed cras to add to it.

Apologies.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 16/01/2020 23:14 by Saint Stokey.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Florida 16 January, 2020 23:33
Quote:
BlackheathSarrie
Having given Saracens the fine and penalty does the mechanism exist to add to that before the season ends with regards to salary compliance? The "articles" suggest it does but the last week has shown us the importance of waiting for the actual facts, even if they're bad. Have the other clubs got their way and changed the Laws mid season or is this just a different application of them that we were unaware of before?

Yes, yes it does. If the disciplinary panel reach a verdict before the first match of round 22 points deduction will be applied that season / immediately.

The regulations actually make for a good read and it's a shame all these places reporting about them don't actually quite any of them.

I think one of the key pieces, which I was unaware of is

Between 1 June 2019 and by no later than 4.00pm on 30 June 2019, each Club, with the
exception of the Relegated Club, will provide to the Salary Cap Manager (with a copy to the
Accountants), in respect of the 2019-20 Salary Cap Year, a copy of:
(a) a Declaration in the form set out in Schedule 2 signed on behalf of the Club by the Chief
Executive Officer and the Financial Director of the Club. The Declaration certifies the sums
which the Chairman, the Chief Executive Officer and the Financial Director, having made full
and proper enquiries, expect the Club to pay during that Salary Cap Year by way of Salary in
respect of the Club's Senior Players and Academy Players

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Alphacat 16 January, 2020 23:46
I do wonder if (pure speculation) Saracens might realise that due to terminations etc, it is impossible to go below the cap, and therefore accepting automatic relegation may be a way of avoiding any further fine (as the regulations don't apply to the relegated club, ie a loophole of sorts)?

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Florida 17 January, 2020 00:42
Quote:
Alphacat
I do wonder if (pure speculation) Saracens might realise that due to terminations etc, it is impossible to go below the cap, and therefore accepting automatic relegation may be a way of avoiding any further fine (as the regulations don't apply to the relegated club, ie a loophole of sorts)?

Don't think that would work. If they were promoted in the subsequent year they would have to provide the previous two seasons declarations of compliance. Also the salary cap manager has 5 years to notify them of a breach so they'd just wait for them to come back up and slap them with a fine.

I really do recommend that everyone takes some time to read through the regulations as I think this is something we're going to hear a lot more about and the media outlets are terrible at providing any information from the regulations.

You can get last year's and this year's regs here - [www.premiershiprugby.com]

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
villagesarrie 17 January, 2020 05:18
I have to confess to feeling enormously sad about this whole saga. I am extremely angry about those people within the club who have brought this club to its knees by their negligence and carelessness in dealing with the salary cap and I do hope they are in a very bad place now as they deserve to be. I am also, it must be said, somewhat disillusioned by the misinformation and downright inaccuracies that have disseminated from the club over the last few months and feel very let down by those (and no, I'm not a Johnny come lately supporter) as I truly believed that the whole mess was as the result of misunderstandings and just a c*ck up and now, I must admit, I'm not so sure.
Most of all, I feel so sad for the players and the staff of our club who must also feel so unhappy, let down, and with terribly uncertain futures, faced with being offloaded ( that is the only word for it) and let go through no fault of their own - they played their hearts out for this club, thinking they, their families and futures were in safe hands. I am also afraid that they may be viewed as spoiled goods who couldn't possibly have not known what was happening at the club and will find it very hard to get into another club.
I also have to say that the sight of the other 11 clubs and media falling on the club like a pack of feral dogs with undisguised relish , with two notable examples in particular, has disillusioned me to the point that I am not actually sure I can ever watch a rugby match again or remain involved in the sport in even a small way. We're season ticket holders and members of one of the "clubs" within Saracens and, had we been relegated (or faced relegation) for normal reasons ie we were rubbish, I would have no hesitation in remaining as such but now, I really am not sure at all.
It is very early in the morning and I do hope I feel better about it later today but right now, I am almost in tears at the thought of my beloved club in this mess.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Grins 17 January, 2020 07:17
Villagesarrie - I would step back and think about why the other clubs show so much “relish”. If true, Sarries have lied, and lied and lied to them. If true, Wray has sat in those meetings and lied to their faces. Sarries cheating has not been costless to other clubs and has gone on for years. I can understand their fury

For what it’s worth, I dont think the players will be viewed as “spoiled goods”. They may have to take a pay cut and I suspect they will be pretty furious with the club - again, if true, I suspect the club lied to them as well. Unfortunately the superb sporting culture at Saracens has been built on lies.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Duncan Keene 17 January, 2020 07:44
Village Sarrie, as a fan of another club, I agree with you. It’s very sad.

I think it’s a shame if nothing could / can be worked out to ensure on pitch performance decides relegation, even if it means my team going down.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Wilson Pickett 17 January, 2020 07:50
VillageSarrie, great post

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Cereal Killer 17 January, 2020 08:07
Great post VillageSarrie. Your post sums up a lot of my feelings.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
St Saltaire 17 January, 2020 08:20
VillageSarrie - I feel for you, the hierarchy have really let you down.
Perhaps a trip to a local amateur club may help in restoring your faith? Rugby needs supporters like you.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
dirtybertie 17 January, 2020 08:44
I haven’t posted for a while partly to do with the anger and hurt over seeing what is happening to the club I have supported for over twenty years and the club I take my family and children too and the club that I have invested so much time and love in.

I am in a position where I work for a company tied very closely to the club and can tell you now that there will be worse to come. We have also been called to a meeting today at 11am.

I have been very fortunate over the last ten years to work with the club and the players and can tell you now the wider squad are hurting just as much as the fans.

We need to take whatever punishment is coming along with the hurt and rebuild again.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Keffer K 17 January, 2020 09:10
VillageSarrie - Put my exact thoughts much better than I was going to.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
cwrich 17 January, 2020 09:20
VillageSarriie .. as others have said you have put it better than I could have done. Very good friends daughter works in admin for the club. I feel for the staff

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Big Chief Little Chief 17 January, 2020 09:23
Villagesarrie- A thoughtful and rather sad post.
As a Chiefs fan I've not commented on this yet, as I feel nobody has the full facts. I cannot believe that the report has not been published. The lack of information has led to speculation, causing fans of other clubs to castigate you. It has also led to complete denial from some sarries fans, posts like "it's a witch hunt" really don't help.

The other clubs management have seen the report, this maybe why they are so keen to jump on sarries as you put it. When someone like Rob Baxter, who is not given to hyperbole, says there's more to come I believe him. I'm sure if the breaches were co-investments only the anger would be less, like has been said they were hardly hidden.

Keep the faith with Rugby mate, hopefully we can draw a line under this and move on with a more sustainable game. The fact most clubs operate in debt is really not good for the sport.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
derbyshire fan 17 January, 2020 10:29
Thanks Big Chief Little Chief

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Poking With Sticks 17 January, 2020 12:16
Quote:
villagesarrie
I also have to say that the sight of the other 11 clubs and media falling on the club like a pack of feral dogs with undisguised relish , with two notable examples in particular...

Really? I've been surprised at the level of support the media has given Sarries in this.

But comments like this make me feel like some Saracens supporters don't understand what's happened from the other clubs' perspective here. The rest of us have had 3 season of Premiership rugby stolen from us. The results are invalid. The play-off games we went home from disappointed? Well have another dose of disappointment at what might have been.

We're given to believe - and it seems pretty likely now - that Nigel Wray accepted a slap on the wrist for breaching the cap some years back and then turned around and did the exact same thing again. I'm not surprised the other CEOs are so annoyed at being treated with such contempt. I'd be angry too.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
paulglynn 17 January, 2020 12:35
Can some one please tell me how pay over the salary cap makes the players any better than others and our squad size is about the same size as the others

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Saint Stokey 17 January, 2020 12:46
Quote:
paulglynn
Can some one please tell me how pay over the salary cap makes the players any better than others and our squad size is about the same size as the others

Is that a serious question? A squad full on internationals and Lions compared to every other prem squad isn't a hint?

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Wilson Pickett 17 January, 2020 12:49
Quote:
paulglynn
Can some one please tell me how pay over the salary cap makes the players any better than others and our squad size is about the same size as the others



YES


I am going on holiday next week. If I pay £800 I go in economy class. If I pay £3k I go in business class.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Saint Stokey 17 January, 2020 12:54
Saints need a fullback so bring in an Academy player because there's no room in the Cap. Sarries ignore the Cap and sign an Lion.

On paper, you'd have to think that a Lion is better than an Academy graduate.

How they actually play is irrelevant.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Speedy-New 17 January, 2020 12:59
Quote:
paulglynn
Can someone please tell me how pay over the salary cap makes the players any better than others and our squad size is about the same size as the others

Really sorry paul but it’s exactly those type of comments that are leading to the amount of trolling you are receiving

I really feel sorry for Sarries supporters. You have been lied to as much as the rest of us and are having to front up to other clubs supporters when your club has also but disappeared

Its such a shame that the PR people you brough in the assist with the managing of this sh*tstorm didn't make Wray et al issue a very formal and public apology to the wider rugby community acknowledging their mistakes.

My biggest problem with Sarries over the whole affair is that they have broken the wage structure for every club and it will never be mended

All the other clubs had to break internal pay structures to ensure their best players didn't all up and leave whenever you (Saracens) came calling.

It is pretty clear that Wray didn't give a sh*t about the rules of the league and this has directly caused the issues all clubs are now facing with large losses being reported by all but one club

Not only have they damaged the competition by breaking the rules but they have damaged every other team that competes in it.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Marlow Nick 17 January, 2020 13:05
Quote:
paulglynn
Can some one please tell me how pay over the salary cap makes the players any better than others and our squad size is about the same size as the others

Paulglynn,

No-one is denying the quality of the players, coaching, team-work, player & family support structures at Saracens - all fabulous. The problem is the squad strength in depth give Saracens an unfair advantage.

Just compare the bench quality of Saracens to any other Premiership team. Yes you may only have 15 players on the pitch like everyone else but when they get tired Saracens have internationals on the bench and when they get tired Saracens can rotate them for a few matches so they dont get injured and when they do get injured Saracens have internationals in the A team and when you have new academy graduates they have the ability to be introduced gently while being supported by a dominant team around them.

Pick any squad you like - Exeter, Northampton, Bristol etc . Remove their top 15 players and look at the remaining 30 squad players compared to the equivalent 30 players from Saracens. There's no comparison.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
ExiledChameleon 17 January, 2020 13:37
[www.thetimes.co.uk]

Saracens are facing automatic relegation from the Premiership at the end of this season if they fail to reduce their wage bill by £2 million before the end of the month.

The club’s breach of the salary-cap regulations was so extensive that they initially agreed to the figure but it now appears pretty much impossible for them to meet their pledge.

The salary cap is set at £7 million. Saracens were fined £5.36 million and docked 35 league points after an investigation revealed they broke the salary-cap regulations in each of the previous three seasons. But Saracens will only be deemed to be compliant with the cap this season if they can reduce their wages by £2 million.

Initially the new chief executive, Ed Griffiths, was bullish that he could shop his players around on the market and cut spending accordingly. However, having been in the job for a fortnight, he has discovered that this is almost impossible.
Saracens had initially been given until the close of play today to show how they were going to come in under cap and to satisfy a number of demands by the other Premiership clubs. One of those demands was that Nigel Wray, the chairman, would resign. That did indeed happen last week. Today the players arrived at training only to be told to take the morning off and return in the afternoon.

Bringing down the wage bill looks extremely unlikely. The highest paid player at the club is Owen Farrell, who earns £750,000. There are a number of other players earning around £500,000. Saracens would therefore need a big clear-out to cut costs by £2 million.

One problem is that most of the other clubs have spent up to the salary cap limit anyway and therefore cannot squeeze any more players in. Another problem is that the players may not wish to leave anyway. When the players were being shopped around to other clubs, it is unlikely that they even knew they were up for sale.

Although the full judgment has not been published, those who have read it say it is damning. The club had initially insisted after the guilty verdict that they would be under the cap for this season, arguing the breaches had all been due to one-off business arrangements with senior players such as Maro Itoje and Owen Farrell.

Premiership clubs are usually audited under salary-cap regulations at the end of the season. The Times revealed in December that Premiership Rugby would take the extraordinary step of monitoring Saracens mid- season, in recognition of the need to restore faith in the league. Wray, who also resigned as a club director yesterday, is understood to have been against opening the books to Deloitte for a forensic audit.

The club then radically changed its position when Griffiths was appointed as interim chief executive earlier this month. He admitted that Saracens were on course to break the cap again and that urgent cuts would be required to the wage bill.
This latest remarkable twist to the tale indicates that the rest of the Premiership is still not satisfied that Saracens will be compliant. All clubs were represented at a meeting on Tuesday, with Bruce Craig, the Bath owner, joining via a video link from the Caribbean.

Griffiths is understood to have been calling around rival Premiership clubs in a bid to offload players that would help bring down the Saracens wage bill but has been struggling to find takers. Very few clubs are believed to have the budget or space in their own caps. It is unclear what mechanism PRL would use to relegate Saracens. One source said last night that the Tuesday meeting amounted to a disciplinary hearing. Another said Saracens would have to take voluntary relegation if they did not come back next week with the right solution.

The Times revealed this month that Saracens could have been deducted 70 points — which would have almost certainly relegated them — because two of the three breaches were in excess of £650,000. The independent panel decided that the two 35-point penalties should run concurrently.

Saracens initially threatened to appeal, provoking fury around the league, with clubs calling for them to be relegated and have their titles removed.

Neither of those actions was permissible under the regulations, nor was the publication of the full report which detailed how and to what extent Saracens broke the rules. Lord Dyson said last week that he believed the judgment should be published because it was in the public interest.

Griffiths had said that his mission was to make Saracens appear “whiter than white” and he acknowledged that mistakes had been made. “We will deal with it,” he had promised. “It is an easy thing to say — we are going to be compliant — but you need to back up words with actions.”

Saracens have been exploring whether Liam Williams, the Wales full back, could join Scarlets before the end of this season rather than in the summer but no arrangement has yet been reached. Richard Wigglesworth, Brad Barritt and Alex Lozowski are among the senior players out of contract in the summer, while George Kruis is due to leave at the end of the season although that does not help them solve the immediate crisis.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Sarriebone 17 January, 2020 13:45
Racing 92 are now having their say [www.rugbypass.com]

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Grins 17 January, 2020 15:17
[www.telegraph.co.uk]

IF this article is right Sarries are effectively down. Sorry for the fans and the staff. What a mess.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Alphacat 17 January, 2020 16:24
Quote:
Sarriebone
Racing 92 are now having their say [www.rugbypass.com]

Quite rich of a club with a much higher salary cap to complain about another team breaking one, especially in a competition where such rules do not apply.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
villagesarrie 17 January, 2020 16:57
Mr VS made that very point Alphacat.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Keffer K 17 January, 2020 17:28
Any thoughts from Sarries fans (I know there at least one or two out there still reading this board amongst all the new arrivals) on what action to take to support the players and showi we massively appreciate their efforts and contribution, but demonstrate we're absolutely disgusted in how the club's been run and how we've been repeatedly lied to?

Really not sure I can attend on Sunday off the back of all this but feels harsh on the players. Ditto wrt renewing my season ticket. There would have to be a serious management clear out I feel.

No need to comment if you feel the players were complicit, the fans were complicit, blah blah blah I'm not interested.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Dieselpup 17 January, 2020 17:43
Bristol fan in peace ……

Genuinely gutted for all associated with Sarries be it fans, admin, players and owners, I am sorry for you all as you are a great club, entertaining to watch and England's only real force in European rugby. I currently have a 14 year old son who is a gutted Sarries fan and I feel for him too.

I am disappointed with those that have chosen to comment publicly about this issue and I actually find them far more guilty of bringing our lovely game into disrepute than anything Sarries have done.

All I can say is keep smiling - it will get better !

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
fatheralice 17 January, 2020 17:52
Quote:
Keffer K
Any thoughts from Sarries fans (I know there at least one or two out there still reading this board amongst all the new arrivals) on what action to take to support the players and showi we massively appreciate their efforts and contribution, but demonstrate we're absolutely disgusted in how the club's been run and how we've been repeatedly lied to?
Really not sure I can attend on Sunday off the back of all this but feels harsh on the players. Ditto wrt renewing my season ticket. There would have to be a serious management clear out I feel.

No need to comment if you feel the players were complicit, the fans were complicit, blah blah blah I'm not interested.

Whilst not a Saracens fan, and I have posted the below on the other thread,so apologies for duplication, but will add it here too, as my thoughts about trying to get to as many away games as possible would certainly be one way fans could show support for the players, whilst sticking two fingers up the management.

Feel very sorry for the fans, who have been let down so badly by the actions of Wray. It is certainly not their fault, and whilst a few have appeared ostrich-like in the face of an inevitable tusnami that has been approaching for at least a year, none of them should be the subject of vitriol, and all will be made welcome at any away ground. Even the most one eyed on here are only supporting their team, but the same can be said of any other team. We have all been decieved by Wray, and all feel let down and hurt.

Indeed, I would suggest by way of protest, as many Saracens fans as possible should try and get to the away games, rather than give even more money to the deceitful Wray, by attending and paying for food and drink at AzP.
They would be very welcome around the country I'm sure. Those that travelled to Sandy Park recently would attest to that I hope, and the feeling of goodwill to the fans will only have grown stronger given recent developments.

Whether that feeling extends to the players and management of Saracens is far less clear. Certainly a large number of players are now in a dreadful position, through no fault of their own, and will not be on the huge money that has caused this breach. Some of the top earners, or those that have accepted a seemingly below market rate offer, whilst happily taking benefits in kind, are perhaps more in the firing line, and may well be facing questions from both fans and fellow players.
That said, I don't really begrudge any player earning as much as he can. It is a brutal and short career, with long term consequences to health. If a senior boss says its all fine, then why would a player question that comment?

As for the senior management who signed off this cheating for so many years - they really do need to be made to walk.
It seems like that has pretty much happened now, given all the changes in directorship since the summer, which is at least a step in the right direction. Comments made by Venter today and previosuly don't really help the cause I'm afraid.

On the subject of money, Assuming a fine in line with the salary cap regs of 3x the breach is still in the offing (so likely to be £3M or so given report), perhaps at season end once all the sums have been added up, I think that PRL would be very well served using such money in setting up a fund to help those financially distressed by Wray's actions accross the board.

As mentioned above, talk of misselling only reflects how other club's fans are feeling having been cheated over the last 5 years or more. Certainly from the South West, many have forked out large sums of money , and taken days off work to attend finals, and that can be extended to any club in truth.

Staff have been lost, or suffered reduced earnings throughout the country as a result of this 5 year campaign of cheating.
It is dreadful for anyone now affected from the wider Saracens family, but no better or worse than anywhere else I'm afraid. Perhaps Wray should be making some sort of statement and financial offering to alleviate some of that pain?

As with calls for openess by PRL in releasing the reports, which I think all fans would support, the moderating of this site, in supressing comment, and deleting unwelcome posts has not helped the cause imo. Hopefully now, in the spirit of contrition that EG seems to be promoting, that policy will be reviewed. By all means delete clear troll posts, but a lot of other stuff was also removed, as it went against the party line. Just because you don't like the message, does not mean it is a troll post.

I hope as many Saracens fans as possible can enjoy a proper rugby welcome, when visiting other grounds, even if some of those are in the Championship, and start to enjoy the game again, win lose or draw.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/01/2020 18:21 by fatheralice.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
BlackheathSarrie 17 January, 2020 18:16
Florida thanks for the reply. That does make it clearer. I agree it's worth a read through the regulations but even then some of it doesn't seem totally clear to me.

Quote:
fatheralice
As with calls for openess by PRL in releasing the reports, which I think all fans would support, the moderating of this site, in supressing comment, and deleting unwelcome posts has not helped the cause imo.

Don't like it? don't post here. This is after all our forum not yours. That certainly works for me.

We have great mods with a very light hand and I'd feel pretty confident that any comments removed would have been because they were repetitious or provocative. Given a number of the usual suspects like to post the same point every time they post I have no interest or sympathy in their posts being removed nor does the site lose anything by such house-cleaning being done.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/01/2020 18:26 by BlackheathSarrie.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
1876-Fez 17 January, 2020 18:17
Quote:
Keffer K
Any thoughts from Sarries fans (I know there at least one or two out there still reading this board amongst all the new arrivals)

Is this still a Saracens board? I thought it had become a repeating station and echo chamber for "SOME" to keep coming on and taking over (Sm136)

.... and no I'm not in denial, nor do I bang the drum in Saracens defence..... but get tired or reading repetitions of the same point.... and before you say "don't read it then" I would then miss the informed/different points of view.



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Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
carlyleuk 17 January, 2020 19:57
Well I am gutted how this has gone.

All I ever wanted was the judgement from the PRL so I could reason what has happened and look to stop a similar problem in the future.

Thank you for the empathy from a number of supporters from other clubs.

I have been a Saracen supporter for 45 years. I played mini rugby at the club when I was 8 years old, my Dad served beer behind the bar, fond memories of a club that continue. We have been through the very difficult times before, trying to prove ourselves when other teams refused to play and us didn't want us in their group of clubs.

The thing I love about being a Saracen supporter is seeing the fantastic rugby. That will always remain. We may end up with another group of clubs, it doesn't matter. I am not one for all the Trophies, we played better than the other teams (Still amazed Baxter mucked up the final last season with poor decisions, Exeter could have one!)

I have brought my daughters up as Saracens supporters and love the family we have at the club. We will always be Saracens supporters like most of my family and friends who turn up to the games. No, we are proper supporters (you have just lowered yourselves to make comments about rugby fans who are genuine.)

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
HoboAl 17 January, 2020 20:31
Quote:
Alphacat
Quote:
Sarriebone
Racing 92 are now having their say [www.rugbypass.com]

Quite rich of a club with a much higher salary cap to complain about another team breaking one, especially in a competition where such rules do not apply.

Perhaps you should read the article he does address the descrepancies between different unions and is calling for stricter rules in France.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Paulr58 17 January, 2020 21:02
The only way to stop all the rumours is for the PRL to publish the report in full, or are they worried there is somthing in there the dont wont the wider rugby public to know.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
1876-Fez 17 January, 2020 22:30
Quote:
carlyleuk
Well I am gutted how this has gone.
All I ever wanted was the judgement from the PRL so I could reason what has happened and look to stop a similar problem in the future.

Thank you for the empathy from a number of supporters from other clubs.

I have been a Saracen supporter for 45 years. I played mini rugby at the club when I was 8 years old, my Dad served beer behind the bar, fond memories of a club that continue. We have been through the very difficult times before, trying to prove ourselves when other teams refused to play and us didn't want us in their group of clubs.

The thing I love about being a Saracen supporter is seeing the fantastic rugby. That will always remain. We may end up with another group of clubs, it doesn't matter. I am not one for all the Trophies, we played better than the other teams (Still amazed Baxter mucked up the final last season with poor decisions, Exeter could have one!)

I have brought my daughters up as Saracens supporters and love the family we have at the club. We will always be Saracens supporters like most of my family and friends who turn up to the games. No, we are proper supporters (you have just lowered yourselves to make comments about rugby fans who are genuine.)

Great post...



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Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Alphacat 18 January, 2020 04:40
It is sad, but hopefully, it will only be one season away and the club can return in 2021-22 refreshed. It is far and away not the end of the world for your club, even if it may feel bad at the moment.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
jonnybrowne 18 January, 2020 10:46
Quote:
Alphacat
It is sad, but hopefully, it will only be one season away and the club can return in 2021-22 refreshed. It is far and away not the end of the world for your club, even if it may feel bad at the moment.

Thank you, kind words.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
BlackheathSarrie 18 January, 2020 15:06
I fear to start the conversation up again but can anyone clarify where the £2M figure has suddenly come from?

I have seen it reference in several articles but substantiated or explained nowhere.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Sarriebone 18 January, 2020 15:35
Quote:
BlackheathSarrie
I fear to start the conversation up again but can anyone clarify where the £2M figure has suddenly come from?
I have seen it reference in several articles but substantiated or explained nowhere.
Not really sure where the figure has suddenly come from. Brendan Venter did say on Twitter that he'd spoken to some people and they said it was £2m over before academy and international credits, but who knows if that's true or not

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Marlow Nick 18 January, 2020 15:57
Of course it could be a lot more than £2m. One has to wonder why Saracens allegedly refused a formal audit. More to hide?

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
ComeOnSarries 18 January, 2020 19:01
Having watched Sarries for nearly 50 years I have some incredible memories and seen some of the world’s best players strut their stuff from Bramley Road to Allianz Park. I have along the way seen young men like Richard Hill turn into world champions.

The current Sarries team is something pretty special especially with so many having come through the Academy.

Nigel Wray has been a generous benefactor of Saracens since the dawn of professionalism and has also done a lot of good things for the local community through the school and Sport Foundation. He is also a genuinely nice person to meet.

I think however, he was naive/reckless in this matter and badly advised in recent years and it is clear that Saracens broke the salary cap rules although why it took 3 years to uncover this fact is beyond my understanding. I understand that this has damaged relationships with other clubs but for the good of the game the PRL needs to come together now and agree a reasonable way forward. Being unreasonable now could damage the reputation of rugby for years.

I remain committed to Sarries and look forward to welcoming Racing 92 tomorrow. With 2 strong teams on display and both having something to play for it should be another great day out. If we don’t want to rely on Toulouse beating Gloucester we need to get 5 points.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
carlyleuk 18 January, 2020 19:16
Quote:
ComeOnSarries
Having watched Sarries for nearly 50 years I have some incredible memories and seen some of the world’s best players strut their stuff from Bramley Road to Allianz Park. I have along the way seen young men like Richard Hill turn into world champions.
The current Sarries team is something pretty special especially with so many having come through the Academy.

Nigel Wray has been a generous benefactor of Saracens since the dawn of professionalism and has also done a lot of good things for the local community through the school and Sport Foundation. He is also a genuinely nice person to meet.

I think however, he was naive/reckless in this matter and badly advised in recent years and it is clear that Saracens broke the salary cap rules although why it took 3 years to uncover this fact is beyond my understanding. I understand that this has damaged relationships with other clubs but for the good of the game the PRL needs to come together now and agree a reasonable way forward. Being unreasonable now could damage the reputation of rugby for years.

I remain committed to Sarries and look forward to welcoming Racing 92 tomorrow. With 2 strong teams on display and both having something to play for it should be another great day out. If we don’t want to rely on Toulouse beating Gloucester we need to get 5 points.

100% agree ComeOnSarries, looking forward to another quality game of rugby

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
BlackheathSarrie 18 January, 2020 19:54
+1 ComeOnSarries.

I shall look forward to cheering the squad on tomorrow and reminding the team itself that despite what has happened they have my support.

Tomorrow is the start of a new chapter for Saracens supporters and whilst it will be quite a change next season I look forward to both that challenge and that of hopefully returning to the Premiership in the future and being able to write a new one. COYS.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
OhMaroItoje 18 January, 2020 20:13
This isn’t about the relegation but...

In the 2015/2016 season, were we over the cap? I only remember reading 2016/2017-present.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Saintalex 18 January, 2020 20:58
In my opinion the game tomorrow should be forfeited. You have cheated to get there and so shouldn’t be there. I would class yourselves very lucky you were just relegated and not kicked out of all the leagues.
I feel sorry for the proper fans that have been shafted but there is no way that none of you didn’t know what was going on. Nigel Wray and Ed Griffiths are a disgrace and this is a very Sad day for the sport that we love
I genuinely wish all the proper fans the best and my heart does go out to you. But your management team have cheated and unfortunately you deserve everything you get



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/01/2020 21:05 by Saintalex.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
dirtybertie 18 January, 2020 21:05
Three more things to come as well from what I have been told.

1- Allianz are not happy
2- Nike will not be renewing their sponsorship
3- The deal with spurs is also up in the air

This is without confirmation on what’s happening to the new west stand.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
MrDolf 18 January, 2020 21:10
I think Sarries have had a bit of a let off. When Lance Armstrong was convicted of this behaviour he had all his medals took off him.

Re: EVERYTHING SALARYCAP RELATED
Keffer K 18 January, 2020 21:22
We have to treat tomorrow as day one of a completely new phase for this club. And that starts with removing everybody with any responsibility for this mess. I don’t trust EG as far as I could throw him, and you cannot have someone who has openly called for the cap to abolished in charge of rebuilding our reputation.

Wray and the Wray children need to sell.

And unfortunately, given it was suggested that the so-called ‘ring fenced’ salary budget that was definitely fine for this season was in control of the coaches, McCall probably has to go too.

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