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What should Sarries do now?
Discussion started by MaroonTyke2 , 19 January, 2020 10:41
What should Sarries do now?
MaroonTyke2 19 January, 2020 10:41
For the players:
1. release anyone who wishes from their contract now or at the end of the season. With other Premiership clubs probably already committed to the salary cap for both this and next year, this would mean looking to other leagues. Lyon are reported to be interested in Owen, Maro & Billy for next year. South Africa, Japan and Argentina are other possibilities.

2. seek to renegotiate current contracts to ensure there are no financial obstructions to promotion from the Championship.

Team selection:
Behave as if the season was a normal one (& go all out to try and win the Heineken!)

For the fans:
1. arrange a meeting to explain (past & future) and apologise.
2. put in place incentives for renewing STHs next year for the first season back in the Premiership. A free ST would be nice!

As for us fans, what should we do:
1. get behind the players in whatever decisions they make.
2. get behind the team each week. By turning up at AzP for every home/Storm game and expressing loud vocal support.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Dorset Boy 19 January, 2020 11:00
I think it has to be incumbent on the club to put some supporters meetings in place to explain where the club goes from here, and to apologise honestly for the cheating, and to stop calling it 'mistakes'.

Clearly the player meetings next week have to take place first, and I suspect the other clubs will also be waiting on the outcome of those meetings.

The financial position of the club will be interesting - the big sponsors almost certainly pulling out, presumably TV money dropping, will the parachute payment be made or not, will it be a minimum of 1 or 2 years in the championship.

Will the club be in a position to meet its financial liabilities or not? If not, what impact will that then have?

The nightmare will run for a while longer for the Salaries supporters I'm afraid.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Surbiton Sarries 19 January, 2020 11:00
Quote:
MaroonTyke2
For the players:
1. release anyone who wishes from their contract now or at the end of the season. With other Premiership clubs probably already committed to the salary cap for both this and next year, this would mean looking to other leagues. Lyon are reported to be interested in Owen, Maro & Billy for next year. South Africa, Japan and Argentina are other possibilities.

2. seek to renegotiate current contracts to ensure there are no financial obstructions to promotion from the Championship.

Team selection:
Behave as if the season was a normal one (& go all out to try and win the Heineken!)

For the fans:
1. arrange a meeting to explain (past & future) and apologise.
2. put in place incentives for renewing STHs next year for the first season back in the Premiership. A free ST would be nice!

As for us fans, what should we do:
1. get behind the players in whatever decisions they make.
2. get behind the team each week. By turning up at AzP for every home/Storm game and expressing loud vocal support.

From a personal point of view, as my travelling time for a home match amounts to 4 hours or so, I do not feel inclined to carry on with this for a series of meaningless matches. For next season I'm open to renewing so long as we are not charged Premiership prices for Championship rugby; as others have said elsewhere it will at least be refreshing to have a change of opposition. Beyond that, it depends on whether PRL pull up the ladder.

I'm 100% behind the players and coaches and wish them well in their future careers wherever they go. On the otherv hand Mr Wray, the directors and seniorb management..........

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Sarriebone 19 January, 2020 11:36
RugbyPass have just published what they think our players will do :

Below list of players and, in brackets, teams or competitions they have been linked with, and whether they are likely to stay or go. This speculative list does not account for loans deals, that could see players take a year away from the club before returning in 21/22.

Likely stayers:
Owen Farrell (Lyon), Maro Itoje (Lyon), Jamie George, Jackson Wray, Brad Barritt, Ben Earl, Ben Spencer, Max Malins, Nick Isekwe,

Possible leavers:
Billy Vunipola (Lyon, Leicester Tigers), Mako Vunipola, Alex Goode, Jack Singleton, Rhys Carré (PRO14), Titi Lamositele

Likely leavers:
George Kruis (Japan), Richard Wigglesworth (Ealing), Michael Rhodes, Juan Figallo, Vincent Koch (Super Rugby/France), Nick Tompkins (PRO14), Callum Clark, Alex Lozowski (Bath), Matt Gallagher (Munster), Will Skelton (Super Rugby, France), Sean Maitland, Duncan Taylor, Elliot Daly, Alex Lewington, Ali Crossdale, Joe Gray, Joel Kpoku (Northampton Saints)

Confirmed leavers:
Liam Williams (Scarlets)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 19/01/2020 11:37 by Sarriebone.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
one fine day 19 January, 2020 11:59
Can you please explain your criteria for each classification of leave. Thanks

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Sarriebone 19 January, 2020 12:05
Quote:
one fine day
Can you please explain your criteria for each classification of leave. Thanks

You'd have to ask RugbyPass, it's their predictions

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Chilham 19 January, 2020 13:01
Quote:
MaroonTyke2
For the players ....

Good post.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
scrappydoo 19 January, 2020 17:02
Rugbypass also has us potentially joing the Pro14 in what they say would be two fingers to the rest of the Premiership. But did say if we took this root there would be no going back.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Vespulavulgaris 19 January, 2020 17:04
If you'd rather take guaranteed relegation than open your books to show you weren't cheating, and then join a different league completely to get around that relegation I doubt there would be many people sad to see you go.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/01/2020 17:11 by Vespulavulgaris.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
scrappydoo 19 January, 2020 17:10
Reading the article, it is clear that this is speculation on RP's part and nothing to suggest the club is even considering this.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
McSaracens 19 January, 2020 18:56
Great journalism from RugbyPass, simple guess work and no more.



“I believe it might have been said before, but there is something special happening at Saracens, and I want to be part of it.” - Nils Mordt

Re: What should Sarries do now?
tpr's headmistress 19 January, 2020 19:04
Isn't that what journalism is about - don't know what' going on so make up something in the hope that it will become fact.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Rupes 20 January, 2020 10:49
Good original post, some interesting stuff in there. For me, as follows:

For Saracens, the club:
1. Embark on a programme of comms with supporters, PRL and media to be honest about what is happening now, within the boundaries of confidentiality. Honesty at this stage is the only way to rebuild trust. No spin, honesty.

2. Ensure that Nigel Wray doesn't attend another home game at AP. I personally thought it was a bad look that he was there yesterday - if a fan had inflicted similar damage on the club, they'd have been banned for life. This is part of showing a clean break with the past, which addresses the new Chairman's statement about building confidence and trust. As long as Nigel is there, very hard to build either.

For PRL:
1. Go on a fact-finding mission to the NRL and see how the salary cap and other governance is done properly.

2. Accept that things have to move forward - no longer can the game be governed by the 12 Chairman, it HAS to be governed independently. Now it may be that CVC investment changes this in any case, but no longer can the Chairman decide on the rules and then say "oh, but we've always done it like this, we're rugby and respect each other's values". No longer good enough, the sport has to evolve and accept that the old school tie is done, dusted and should be locked away. Self-regulation has been shown not to work, this must be a watershed moment in the governance of elite rugby in England.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
derbyshire fan 20 January, 2020 10:57
So Rupes you want to ban Nigel from every home game in perpetuity, but still take his (or at least his family’s money) to keep the club afloat. How immoral is that?

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Neil-H 20 January, 2020 11:02
I know its a different scenario, but when Saints went down, our season tickets prices were reduced and anyone that purchased a season ticket then got a discount on season ticket when promoted back to premiership, think it was 20%
iirc?

There was also some very good old school rugby days out and some proper old rugby grounds and some decent food to!!... as one of the closest, do go to Goldington Rd, having a pint and just walk around the ground watching the rugby from where you want is refreshing change

I think youll find the opposition supporters will enjoy having your company and having players of the quality that you will have playing at their ground!

Re: What should Sarries do now?
jonnybrowne 20 January, 2020 11:11
Quote:
MaroonTyke2
For the players:
1. release anyone who wishes from their contract now or at the end of the season. With other Premiership clubs probably already committed to the salary cap for both this and next year, this would mean looking to other leagues. Lyon are reported to be interested in Owen, Maro & Billy for next year. South Africa, Japan and Argentina are other possibilities.

2. seek to renegotiate current contracts to ensure there are no financial obstructions to promotion from the Championship.

Team selection:
Behave as if the season was a normal one (& go all out to try and win the Heineken!)

For the fans:
1. arrange a meeting to explain (past & future) and apologise.
2. put in place incentives for renewing STHs next year for the first season back in the Premiership. A free ST would be nice!

As for us fans, what should we do:
1. get behind the players in whatever decisions they make.
2. get behind the team each week. By turning up at AzP for every home/Storm game and expressing loud vocal support.

Good post, all eminently sensible proposals although I'd guess that STH numbers will drop so while a free "loyalty" ST for renewing in advance for 2021-22 would be lovely I suspect the club will need whatever revenue it can get.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
boomer! 20 January, 2020 12:38
Quote:
scrappydoo
Rugbypass also has us potentially joing the Pro14 in what they say would be two fingers to the rest of the Premiership. But did say if we took this root there would be no going back.

I like that idea.

Some of those French stadiums are superb. Their supporters are brill.

Lyon versus a damp, dank, & windy Exeter...….. No contest.



It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
DoubleChampions 20 January, 2020 12:40
Could always charge us the same just make it a 2 year ticket - that way the club will get the money in next season? provided we are able to come back up after one year (which is possibly unlikely) failing that they cannot expect to get anywhere near the current pricing.



+1

Re: What should Sarries do now?
myleftboot 20 January, 2020 12:40
Quote:
boomer!

Lyon versus a damp, dank, & windy Exeter...….. No contest.
cheaper to fly to as well! Why on earth would at least 80% of the pro14 want us?

Re: What should Sarries do now?
#wolfpack 20 January, 2020 12:52
Get that PR company to actually do something?

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Rupes 20 January, 2020 13:00
Quote:
derbyshire fan
So Rupes you want to ban Nigel from every home game in perpetuity, but still take his (or at least his family’s money) to keep the club afloat. How immoral is that?

DerbyshireFan - sorry, but that's not what I've said. What you call out is what I think the HUGE issue the club is facing, specifically the financing of the club. Given what has happened, I don't believe we should still take his (or his family's money). That obviously has massive ramifications, but if the club (as per the Chairman's statement) is truly interested in re-building trust and confidence then I don't think we can say "yes, it's happening" on the one hand and still have Nigel (or his family) involved. It's a really bad situation and it's not anyone's choice of action, but I feel that until there is a clean break then we're going to struggle to get that confidence or trust back.

I'm aware that's not a popular view btw, but taking the emotion out of it then I don't see another way forward.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
boomer! 20 January, 2020 13:09
Quote:
Neil-H
I know its a different scenario, but when Saints went down, our season tickets prices were reduced and anyone that purchased a season ticket then got a discount on season ticket when promoted back to premiership, think it was 20%
iirc?

There was also some very good old school rugby days out and some proper old rugby grounds and some decent food to!!... as one of the closest, do go to Goldington Rd, having a pint and just walk around the ground watching the rugby from where you want is refreshing change

I think youll find the opposition supporters will enjoy having your company and having players of the quality that you will have playing at their ground!


Nice post.

I am already thinking of the away weekend down to Cornwall for Pirates, and me and missus off to Jersey for that 'special' break.....and then me and the mates to Doncaster where I read on Twttr that the pies are really good.

And of course a visit to Bedford where it used to be a regular preseason visit for us.



It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Waldo 20 January, 2020 13:58
Quote:
scrappydoo
Rugbypass also has us potentially joing the Pro14 in what they say would be two fingers to the rest of the Premiership. But did say if we took this root there would be no going back.

This is an interesting scenario - putting aside the logistics of it happening - CVC Have just bought a stake in the Pro 14 - so depending on how Toxic (or not) CVC view Saracens - them joining the Pro14 would inject some intrigue into the competition and this might just generate some revenue for CVC (TV rights etc) imagine Sarries taking on Leinster & Munster in a league game .

It could even be a toe in the water for a European League .

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Innings 20 January, 2020 14:22
Rupes.

Quote:
DerbyshireFan - sorry, but that's not what I've said. What you call out is what I think the HUGE issue the club is facing, specifically the financing of the club. Given what has happened, I don't believe we should still take his (or his family's money). That obviously has massive ramifications, but if the club (as per the Chairman's statement) is truly interested in re-building trust and confidence then I don't think we can say "yes, it's happening" on the one hand and still have Nigel (or his family) involved. It's a really bad situation and it's not anyone's choice of action, but I feel that until there is a clean break then we're going to struggle to get that confidence or trust back.
I'm aware that's not a popular view btw, but taking the emotion out of it then I don't see another way forward.




A moral stance. There are probably no buyers, no other source of income to pay anyone at all. The CVC money amounts to less than £10million, which would last for less than a year. It is illegal to trade as a company whilst insolvent, as this business would certainly be without the Wray family. Where does your suggestion take you?



Innings

Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Wilson Pickett 20 January, 2020 14:24
The club and fans will have to roll with the punches I am afraid.

However I would absolutely try to find a new owner... otherwise the brand will stay tarnished.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Gray_Lensman 20 January, 2020 14:27
Quote:
boomer!
Quote:
scrappydoo
Rugbypass also has us potentially joing the Pro14 in what they say would be two fingers to the rest of the Premiership. But did say if we took this root there would be no going back.

I like that idea.

Some of those French stadiums are superb. Their supporters are brill.

Lyon versus a damp, dank, & windy Exeter...….. No contest.

Er, you do know that Pro14 doesn't include France?

Re: What should Sarries do now?
quin_jon 20 January, 2020 14:29
Quote:
boomer!
Quote:
scrappydoo
Rugbypass also has us potentially joing the Pro14 in what they say would be two fingers to the rest of the Premiership. But did say if we took this root there would be no going back.

I like that idea.

Some of those French stadiums are superb. Their supporters are brill.

Lyon versus a damp, dank, & windy Exeter...….. No contest.

Are you not getting the Pro14 confused with the Top14

Re: What should Sarries do now?
maynas 20 January, 2020 14:35
Quote:
Sarriebone
RugbyPass have just published what they think our players will do :
Below list of players and, in brackets, teams or competitions they have been linked with, and whether they are likely to stay or go. This speculative list does not account for loans deals, that could see players take a year away from the club before returning in 21/22.

Likely stayers:
Owen Farrell (Lyon), Maro Itoje (Lyon), Jamie George, Jackson Wray, Brad Barritt, Ben Earl, Ben Spencer, Max Malins, Nick Isekwe,

Possible leavers:
Billy Vunipola (Lyon, Leicester Tigers), Mako Vunipola, Alex Goode, Jack Singleton, Rhys Carré (PRO14), Titi Lamositele


Likely leavers:
George Kruis (Japan), Richard Wigglesworth (Ealing), Michael Rhodes, Juan Figallo, Vincent Koch (Super Rugby/France), Nick Tompkins (PRO14), Callum Clark, Alex Lozowski (Bath), Matt Gallagher (Munster), Will Skelton (Super Rugby, France), Sean Maitland, Duncan Taylor, Elliot Daly, Alex Lewington, Ali Crossdale, Joe Gray, Joel Kpoku (Northampton Saints)

Confirmed leavers:
Liam Williams (Scarlets)


I suspect after yesterday there wont be a queue for poor injury hit Billy V

Re: What should Sarries do now?
daz_71 20 January, 2020 15:30
Quote:
Wilson Pickett
The club and fans will have to roll with the punches I am afraid.
However I would absolutely try to find a new owner... otherwise the brand will stay tarnished.

I fully understand the sentiment and probably wouldn't disagree but what kind of idiot would buy a rugby club? Nigel Wray has messed up everything (including his legacy) with the salary cap breaches but he has also sunk upwards of £50M of his own money in to the club. I can't imagine there are too many of those kind of benefactors around!

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Rich. 20 January, 2020 15:47
Does anyone know the situation with a club needing to be under the salary cap for at least 2 seasons before being able to be promoted to the Prem? This is a 'rule' quoted on the BBC (Ugo Monye, Chris Jones) podcast and I have heard it elsewhere. If the case then, on the assumption getting under the cap for this season is not do-able, doesn't that mean at least 2 seasons in the Championship?

It seems a significant factor but is currently under the radar. Or has someone mis-read something and there is no such clear rule?

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Darraghgirl 20 January, 2020 16:28
Quote:
Rich.
Does anyone know the situation with a club needing to be under the salary cap for at least 2 seasons before being able to be promoted to the Prem? This is a 'rule' quoted on the BBC (Ugo Monye, Chris Jones) podcast and I have heard it elsewhere. If the case then, on the assumption getting under the cap for this season is not do-able, doesn't that mean at least 2 seasons in the Championship?
It seems a significant factor but is currently under the radar. Or has someone mis-read something and there is no such clear rule?

Would be nice to have some more information from our Board regarding what actually happened during their talks with PRL rather than the inadequate email we received (talks which were at one stage said to be "constructive". Did they come to any sort of agreement when they say they have accepted the "unprecedented measure of automatic relegation". Would our clever lawyers/PR people have agreed to jump into the abyss without a life jacket? Given what has happened this week absolutely anything is possible! Maybe we're going to join the Rugby Football League instead!

It also seems to me that PRL's regulations are on the fluid side! so I guess we will have to wait and see.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Wilson Pickett 20 January, 2020 16:31
Quote:
daz_71
Quote:
Wilson Pickett
The club and fans will have to roll with the punches I am afraid.
However I would absolutely try to find a new owner... otherwise the brand will stay tarnished.

I fully understand the sentiment and probably wouldn't disagree but what kind of idiot would buy a rugby club? Nigel Wray has messed up everything (including his legacy) with the salary cap breaches but he has also sunk upwards of £50M of his own money in to the club. I can't imagine there are too many of those kind of benefactors around!


Fastest growing sport in the US. American MLR contracts are rising fast. I think that’s where to target.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
#wolfpack 20 January, 2020 16:44
Just to be clear - 'coming under the cap this season' may still be possible. We have until 30 June 2020 to do so.

It wasn't possible to meet whatever demand was made of us within the timescales demanded of us - but that isn't the same thing.

Not least because presumably we haven't had any England credits yet for the 6N (as they haven't happened yet and we don't know which players will actually play), and we haven't had any injury credits yet (as we haven't had any season long injuries yet because we're only halfway through the season)!

Re: What should Sarries do now?
daz_71 20 January, 2020 17:04
Quote:
#wolfpack
Just to be clear - 'coming under the cap this season' may still be possible. We have until 30 June 2020 to do so.

This was something that Brendan alluded to on the Rugby Union Weekly podcast. He mentioned the injured players and Liam. As I have mentioned on the Salary Cap thread the £2M being banded about is a complete red herring according to Brendan. That was the figure of contracts they needed to lose before the end of Jan to get within the cap this season and wouldn't have included the injured players. ***

***All the above is of course if Brendan is correct. Not stating it as fact only what I heard him say

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Rich. 20 January, 2020 17:28
Yeah but if he correct and no other issues why not let the auditors in?

Re: What should Sarries do now?
boomer! 20 January, 2020 17:50
Quote:
quin_jon
Quote:
boomer!
Quote:
scrappydoo
Rugbypass also has us potentially joing the Pro14 in what they say would be two fingers to the rest of the Premiership. But did say if we took this root there would be no going back.

I like that idea.

Some of those French stadiums are superb. Their supporters are brill.

Lyon versus a damp, dank, & windy Exeter...….. No contest.

Are you not getting the Pro14 confused with the Top14

Yes! (Sm80)



It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Duncan Keene 20 January, 2020 17:53
Quote:
Rich.
Does anyone know the situation with a club needing to be under the salary cap for at least 2 seasons before being able to be promoted to the Prem? This is a 'rule' quoted on the BBC (Ugo Monye, Chris Jones) podcast and I have heard it elsewhere. If the case then, on the assumption getting under the cap for this season is not do-able, doesn't that mean at least 2 seasons in the Championship?
It seems a significant factor but is currently under the radar. Or has someone mis-read something and there is no such clear rule?

This question probably needs a thread on it's own really. It's a huge issue that needs clarifying and not just for Saracens.

For the Championship clubs. If you can't get promoted next year then they have a golden opportunity to invest in their squads as it would be a year without one of the Premiership 13 and our bigger budgets, parachute payments etc. On the other hand if you can get promoted, then they have a year where they know even more than ever they are very unlikely to overhaul the team previously in the Premiership.

For the Premiership clubs. If you can't get promoted next year, then next year is the biggest relegation fight ever, because the year after the relegated team won't have the usual tour around the Championship and then promotion, they will have to fight head to head with Saracens for promotion, probably lose out and have two years in the Championship.

I suspect that once it dawns on the other Premiership chairman that this rule would most likely mean one of their clubs spending two years in the Championship as well as Saracens then this rule will cease to exist. We shall see, as i say it clearly needs clarifying very soon.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
derbyshire fan 20 January, 2020 18:03
I have to believe that Sarries and PRL have agreed that we have already ‘done our time’ for this season’s cap breaches and therefore the slate would be wiped clean for 2019/20 when/if we are being considered for promotion to the Premiership after one season. And that then allows this season to sort out buying out contracts, unwinding joint investments and any other cap-breaching issues.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Rupes 20 January, 2020 20:15
Quote:
Innings
Rupes.
Quote:
DerbyshireFan - sorry, but that's not what I've said. What you call out is what I think the HUGE issue the club is facing, specifically the financing of the club. Given what has happened, I don't believe we should still take his (or his family's money). That obviously has massive ramifications, but if the club (as per the Chairman's statement) is truly interested in re-building trust and confidence then I don't think we can say "yes, it's happening" on the one hand and still have Nigel (or his family) involved. It's a really bad situation and it's not anyone's choice of action, but I feel that until there is a clean break then we're going to struggle to get that confidence or trust back.
I'm aware that's not a popular view btw, but taking the emotion out of it then I don't see another way forward.


A moral stance. There are probably no buyers, no other source of income to pay anyone at all. The CVC money amounts to less than £10million, which would last for less than a year. It is illegal to trade as a company whilst insolvent, as this business would certainly be without the Wray family. Where does your suggestion take you?


Innings - I promise it's not meant to be a moral stance at all. All I'm trying to do is to take the emotion out of it. What you say about buyers etc...is probably very true (although I'd never under-estimate the new CEO!), so I'm not sure where my suggestion takes us. And, as I've said above, I think that's a HUGE issue but sadly one for which I don't have an answer.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Harrow Sarrie 20 January, 2020 23:28
Quote:
Rich.
Yeah but if he correct and no other issues why not let the auditors in?

Reports suggested that the "deal" was more complex than that. For example it also included the unprecedented step of handing back previously won trophies, a sanction not currently covered/permitted under current regulations, so who knows what else they piled on.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Speedy-New 21 January, 2020 06:47
I believe the 2-year cap 'rule' has been put in place to stop clubs 'front-loading' contracts whilst in the Championship which does not have a cap

It doesn't take a finanicial genus to work out that getting International Player X in on a 3-year contract where 90% of the total salary was paid in Year 1 with minimal pay in Years 2 & 3

I do fear you may be spending more than a single year in the Championship if you can't somehow clear the decks by 30th June.
This is something I can't see how it is done unless the high earners all accept an instant pay cut of around 30% for the rest of the season.

Billy's injury on Sunday really has created an issue you could do without at this time too. I'm not sure how many clubs would now be looking to sign him with the number of arm breaks he has suffered.
I do fear for him coming back. There is no douby a weakness there and the position he plays in, and the way he plays this could easily be broken again.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
myleftboot 21 January, 2020 07:06
Problem is, Speedy, it's all hypothesis, none of us know how much over we are. Presumably one of our Marquee players is definitely leaving already, at the start of the season we can offload 3 players for a season under the loan scheme. That's already, with a few departures as per the normal scheme of things, getting close to the worst case overspend mentioned.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Speedy-New 21 January, 2020 07:33
Agree myleftboot however the cuts will need to made in this season to comply players leaving at the end of the season will not affect this seasons spend

It's a horrible place Wray has left you in. I'm not sure that there is a right answer for the club, the players, or the wider rugby community.

I despise what Wray has done to our sport but I will never blame the fans for this. You have been left picking up the pieces and fronting up to other club's fans.

The silcence from YOUR club is deafening. What they can say is limited. I accept that but they seem to be trying to avoid the situation apart for a single statement on Saturday

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Cereal Killer 21 January, 2020 07:43
May well be right Speedy. Have heard Venter on a couple of pod casts saying we are nowhere near the £2m mark, IF that's true we may well be able to get below by the end of the year. Another way to look at the Billy arm break it that there will be money off the salary cap as he is injured, probably until the end of the season, however we won't get any money from England credits.

I think the rules on promotion are changed quite a bit (happy to be corrected on this), would be a good idea for everybody to get what Sarries need to do to win promotion nailed down long before the season starts, so a decision will probably be made August 2021!

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Statesman 21 January, 2020 07:58
Quote:
Cereal Killer
Another way to look at the Billy arm break it that there will be money off the salary cap as he is injured, probably until the end of the season, however we won't get any money from England credits1!

No, you will not get Salary out of the Cap for BV - needs to be injured for the whole season.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Cereal Killer 21 January, 2020 08:00
Thanks for the correction, I thought it was staggered

Re: What should Sarries do now?
Speedy-New 21 January, 2020 08:00
I listened to Venter on the Rugby Weekly podcast last night I'm afraid he did nothing on that to help other fans view on the situation

He made a couple of comments that implicated you further and not improve matters.

I suspect you aren't near the £2 million figure - if you really are then what the hell was going on there. I do however suspect it to be around the much mentioned figures of around £1.2 million (from previous years)

How you do this without persuading players to take pay cuts is way beyond my understanding

I do think we all need a set of clear statments from both PRL and Saracens as to what the current situation is. I'm guessing these may come out later this week once all the player meetings have taken place.

As a director of a company I can't think of a worse set of meetings to have with my staff. There will be both anger and tears but most of all a questionning of what the club has done to leave them in this position.

For every Billy there are 4 or 5 players that aren't paid a lot and they really don't know what their futures now hold

Re: What should Sarries do now?
OhMaroItoje 21 January, 2020 08:06
If we spend 2 years in the championship then there will be a title race in our 2nd year with a current prem side (or Newcastle)! It would be likely that whoever gets relegated next year from the prem has to potentially spend 2 years in the championship also...

Re: What should Sarries do now?
AlexInSouthville 21 January, 2020 08:09
Quote:
Speedy-New
I listened to Venter on the Rugby Weekly podcast last night I'm afraid he did nothing on that to help other fans view on the situation. He made a couple of comments that implicated you further and not improve matters.

If Brendan Venter really loves Saracens, he would show it best by refusing to comment.

What Sarries really don't need right now, is an unofficial spokesman who consistently comes across to neutral fans (fairly or unfairly) as arrogant, and lacking any sort of awareness or contrition.

Re: What should Sarries do now?
MarchingIn 21 January, 2020 20:29
I thought the 2 million figure was effectively the whole-season contract value you needed to cut from the salary bill before a certain date to drop the whole season cost down to £7m? I.e. you could have cut (for example) 3 players on a combined total of £1m on day1 and could then end the season under, but as you didn't and their costs are now incurred for 1/2 a season on top of the rest, you would need to cut a greater number of players to bring the season long figure back in line?

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