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Mark McCall
Discussion started by Saracens23 , 19 January, 2020 12:48
Mark McCall
Saracens23 19 January, 2020 12:48
His interview on BT Sport then at least sounded positive. He would be the biggest loss if he went IMO. Fingers crossed he and the other coaches stay. However, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them went. Completely let down by the management above them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/01/2020 12:49 by Saracens23.

Re: Mark McCall
AlexInSouthville 19 January, 2020 12:54
Quote:
Saracens23
His interview on BT Sport then at least sounded positive. He would be the biggest loss if he went IMO. Fingers crossed he and the other coaches stay. However, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them went. Completely let down by the management above them.

Seems a massive assumption that the blame lies entirely with those above him.... is there any confirmation that he was not complicit?

Re: Mark McCall
Saracens23 19 January, 2020 13:03
Thanks Alex. Any evidence he was? Everything is currently an assumption, just summising that the blame lies with the money men. He may well have been complicit, but I reserve judgement yet until we find out the scale of the deception. That ok with you if I hold that opinion?

Re: Mark McCall
Vespulavulgaris 19 January, 2020 13:18
I'm not convinced he is as great a coach as many seem to think. Yes he's achieved some amazing results, but it turns out that the squad he was using was assembled by cheating the system for over half a decade.

Don't get me wrong, a terrible coach can ruin a great squad, and a great coach can achieve things with a poor squad. But when you have a squad that is already significantly better than all the others how great a coach do you have to be to win?

Re: Mark McCall
fatheralice 19 January, 2020 13:33
Quote:
Saracens23
Thanks Alex. Any evidence he was? Everything is currently an assumption, just summising that the blame lies with the money men. He may well have been complicit, but I reserve judgement yet until we find out the scale of the deception. That ok with you if I hold that opinion?

http://i.imgur.com/k1Q0nxk.jpg

Obviously the rest of this Q and A the club released in November was a lie, so probably wouldn't stand up in court, but still it is not the best look for McCall......

Re: Mark McCall
AlexInSouthville 19 January, 2020 13:36
Quote:
Saracens23
Thanks Alex. Any evidence he was? Everything is currently an assumption, just summising that the blame lies with the money men. He may well have been complicit, but I reserve judgement yet until we find out the scale of the deception. That ok with you if I hold that opinion?

Salty reply.

Do you think the “money men” and Director of Rugby are completely different roles? You think that the DoR would have nothing to do with budgets?

Re: Mark McCall
Banzai1314 19 January, 2020 16:42
Quote:
Vespulavulgaris
I'm not convinced he is as great a coach as many seem to think. Yes he's achieved some amazing results, but it turns out that the squad he was using was assembled by cheating the system for over half a decade.
Don't get me wrong, a terrible coach can ruin a great squad, and a great coach can achieve things with a poor squad. But when you have a squad that is already significantly better than all the others how great a coach do you have to be to win?

A bit like Dai Young ruining Pests best players - imagine what he’d do with an average team... oh wait!

Re: Mark McCall
Vespulavulgaris 19 January, 2020 17:02
Quote:
Banzai1314
Quote:
Vespulavulgaris
I'm not convinced he is as great a coach as many seem to think. Yes he's achieved some amazing results, but it turns out that the squad he was using was assembled by cheating the system for over half a decade.
Don't get me wrong, a terrible coach can ruin a great squad, and a great coach can achieve things with a poor squad. But when you have a squad that is already significantly better than all the others how great a coach do you have to be to win?

A bit like Dai Young ruining Pests best players - imagine what he’d do with an average team... oh wait!

McCall may well be a much better coach than Dai, but maybe he isnt even close. We'll never actually know now will we? Because every win you got for over half a decade was built on cheating the system to ensure you had an unfair advantage. Even today Sarrie's fans are celebrating a win despite still playing a squad assembled by ignoring the regulations you agreed to stick to.

Re: Mark McCall
Westy68 19 January, 2020 17:05
Dai isn’t anywhere near as good as Mark McCall but even Dai got a bunch of good players to a final that were 7 seconds from winning. Also a semi that only lost to a bunch of cheats.

A great deal of you except the severity of your crimes but some of you are still in denial, which a lot of rugby supporters are finding hard to accept.

I should imagine some don’t really care.

Please let me know if you would not care if your team lost semis or finals due to that team cheating, pretty sure you would not be happy.

Re: Mark McCall
myleftboot 19 January, 2020 17:14
Not going to take@#$%&from any Wasps fans over this. Glass houses chap.

Re: Mark McCall
Westy68 19 January, 2020 17:19
Very mature.

Re: Mark McCall
Banzai1314 19 January, 2020 17:29
Quote:
Westy68
Dai isn’t anywhere near as good as Mark McCall but even Dai got a bunch of good players to a final that were 7 seconds from winning. Also a semi that only lost to a bunch of cheats.
A great deal of you except the severity of your crimes but some of you are still in denial, which a lot of rugby supporters are finding hard to accept.

I should imagine some don’t really care.

Please let me know if you would not care if your team lost semis or finals due to that team cheating, pretty sure you would not be happy.

Westy- those memories of nearly winning must really upset you- I on the other hand have many memories ( over 23 years) to reflect back on. Were Agen any good yesterday ?

Re: Mark McCall
samgibbo 19 January, 2020 17:33
Quote:
Westy68
Very mature.

Still sulking at the stupidity of Nathan Hughes gifting Chiefs a victory in the final?

I’ll take our ‘soiled’ trophies any time over the garbage going on at the Ricoh.

Re: Mark McCall
Westy68 19 January, 2020 17:38
I have no idea if Agen where any good As they were playing Edinburgh.

What I can tell you is Wasps were awful yesterday.

I also have great memories especially beating Tigers in the final, especially has tigers put 50+ points past us a few weeks earlier

Re: Mark McCall
AlexInSouthville 19 January, 2020 17:44
Quote:
Vespulavulgaris
Quote:
Banzai1314
Quote:
Vespulavulgaris
I'm not convinced he is as great a coach as many seem to think. Yes he's achieved some amazing results, but it turns out that the squad he was using was assembled by cheating the system for over half a decade.
Don't get me wrong, a terrible coach can ruin a great squad, and a great coach can achieve things with a poor squad. But when you have a squad that is already significantly better than all the others how great a coach do you have to be to win?

A bit like Dai Young ruining Pests best players - imagine what he’d do with an average team... oh wait!

McCall may well be a much better coach than Dai, but maybe he isnt even close. We'll never actually know now will we? Because every win you got for over half a decade was built on cheating the system to ensure you had an unfair advantage. Even today Sarrie's fans are celebrating a win despite still playing a squad assembled by ignoring the regulations you agreed to stick to.

This is the sad fact as a result of the “financial doping”.

I suspect that the remarkable culture Sarries fostered will have gone a long way towards their success.

I also suspect Mark McCall is a great DoR.

However, neither of those factors can be recognised in isolation from the salary cap issues, and will therefore never get the recognition that they probably deserve.

Re: Mark McCall
Westy68 19 January, 2020 17:46
Quote:
samgibbo
Quote:
Westy68
Very mature.

Still sulking at the stupidity of Nathan Hughes gifting Chiefs a victory in the final?

I’ll take our ‘soiled’ trophies any time over the garbage going on at the Ricoh.

I think that says it all with some of the Sarries supporters.

Don’t get upset with other rugby supporters that question that kind of attitude. Enjoy next season.

Don’t worry I don’t think wasps will be to far behind you, due to a poorly run club. Unless the 2 season law doesn’t change

Re: Mark McCall
Banzai1314 19 January, 2020 17:52
Quote:
Westy68
I have no idea if Agen where any good As they were playing Edinburgh.
What I can tell you is Wasps were awful yesterday.

I also have great memories especially beating Tigers in the final, especially has tigers put 50+ points past us a few weeks earlier

How about Bordeaux- which decade do your memories refer back to ? Niled at home - ouch !

Re: Mark McCall
Vespulavulgaris 19 January, 2020 17:57
Quote:
AlexInSouthville
Quote:
Vespulavulgaris

McCall may well be a much better coach than Dai, but maybe he isnt even close. We'll never actually know now will we? Because every win you got for over half a decade was built on cheating the system to ensure you had an unfair advantage. Even today Sarrie's fans are celebrating a win despite still playing a squad assembled by ignoring the regulations you agreed to stick to.

This is the sad fact as a result of the “financial doping”.

I suspect that the remarkable culture Sarries fostered will have gone a long way towards their success.

I also suspect Mark McCall is a great DoR.

However, neither of those factors can be recognised in isolation from the salary cap issues, and will therefore never get the recognition that they probably deserve.

And that is a crying shame. Sarries could have had a massive impact on rugby in England. McCall could well be the best coach around and we could all have improved because of him (See Gats and Edward's when they were with us). But this has destroyed any chance of that. He'll always be associated with the regime that destroyed what may possibly have been one of the greatest club setups around with systematic cheating over years.

One of the greatest potential legacies in Rugby is now one of the worst.

Re: Mark McCall
Banzai1314 19 January, 2020 18:01
Quote:
Vespulavulgaris
Quote:
AlexInSouthville
Quote:
Vespulavulgaris

McCall may well be a much better coach than Dai, but maybe he isnt even close. We'll never actually know now will we? Because every win you got for over half a decade was built on cheating the system to ensure you had an unfair advantage. Even today Sarrie's fans are celebrating a win despite still playing a squad assembled by ignoring the regulations you agreed to stick to.

This is the sad fact as a result of the “financial doping”.

I suspect that the remarkable culture Sarries fostered will have gone a long way towards their success.

I also suspect Mark McCall is a great DoR.

However, neither of those factors can be recognised in isolation from the salary cap issues, and will therefore never get the recognition that they probably deserve.

And that is a crying shame. Sarries could have had a massive impact on rugby in England. McCall could well be the best coach around and we could all have improved because of him (See Gats and Edward's when they were with us). But this has destroyed any chance of that. He'll always be associated with the regime that destroyed what may possibly have been one of the greatest club setups around with systematic cheating over years.

One of the greatest potential legacies in Rugby is now one of the worst.

We have continually developed average and academy players into England and Lions players - and you don’t think that will be remembered?

Re: Mark McCall
Vespulavulgaris 19 January, 2020 18:02
Quote:
Banzai1314
Quote:
Westy68
I have no idea if Agen where any good As they were playing Edinburgh.
What I can tell you is Wasps were awful yesterday.

I also have great memories especially beating Tigers in the final, especially has tigers put 50+ points past us a few weeks earlier

How about Bordeaux- which decade do your memories refer back to ? Niled at home - ouch !

What is your point? Us being @#$%& doesn't mean you aren't cheats. Us being nilled at home doesn't mean you haven't destroyed the value of everything you have won for years. Us paying top dollar for players who cannot perform doesn't mean you haven't destroyed the careers of many people completely needlessly. Us being in what was until recently a genuine relegation battle doesn't mean you have an inch of moral high ground to take.

Re: Mark McCall
Westy68 19 January, 2020 18:08
Quote:
Banzai1314
Quote:
Westy68
I have no idea if Agen where any good As they were playing Edinburgh.
What I can tell you is Wasps were awful yesterday.

I also have great memories especially beating Tigers in the final, especially has tigers put 50+ points past us a few weeks earlier

How about Bordeaux- which decade do your memories refer back to ? Niled at home - ouch !

Banzai I don’t get what you are trying to say, do you think saying Wasps are rubbish will upset me, is that what you are trying to do. Unfortunately Wasps are poor with a poor coaching set up, I already know this but I will still watch them.

How much longer wasps will be around is unlikely to be much longer, if our finances stay as they are

I’m sorry that I have only followed Wasps for 19 years, please tell what is an Acceptable time period.

Re: Mark McCall
Vespulavulgaris 19 January, 2020 18:11
Quote:
Banzai1314
We have continually developed average and academy players into England and Lions players - and you don’t think that will be remembered?

No.

Firstly because you constantly take credit for developing players you did no such thing for.

Secondly because any success is tainted by the cheating. Would you have developed academy players to the same degree if you had not assembled a squad the way you had? No, almost certainly not.

There is no aspect of the success you have had that you have not poisoned with this and that is bloody criminal. Pretending it is all ok because it had some wider benefits is almost as bad.

I genuinely hope this does not destroy your club, I hope you come back with some of the humility you have long claimed was a virtue and we can go back to competing fairly, but I worry the repercussions could destroy your club. This has damaged all of domestic rugby significantly and I firmly believe we have not heard the end of it yet.

Re: Mark McCall
AlexInSouthville 19 January, 2020 18:13
Quote:
Banzai1314
We have continually developed average and academy players into England and Lions players - and you don’t think that will be remembered?

Honestly? No, I don’t

When people in coming years think about the Sarries team of 2010-2020, first thought will be about the cheating.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/01/2020 18:16 by AlexInSouthville.

Re: Mark McCall
Banzai1314 19 January, 2020 18:23
Out of interest which players do you believe we take the credit for that were as a result of others ?

Re: Mark McCall
maynas 19 January, 2020 19:22
Quote:
Banzai1314
Quote:
plzd
Cheating kumts @#$%&

What a joke !Really -is that all you can come up with ?

On another thread (he’s active on most actually) he says he runs his own company.......God help his employees!

Re: Mark McCall
Keffer K 19 January, 2020 20:06
If he had any involvement at all, sadly he has to go.

Re: Mark McCall
TonyTaff 20 January, 2020 16:31
Quote:
Vespulavulgaris
Quote:
Banzai1314
We have continually developed average and academy players into England and Lions players - and you don’t think that will be remembered?

No.

Firstly because you constantly take credit for developing players you did no such thing for.

Secondly because any success is tainted by the cheating. Would you have developed academy players to the same degree if you had not assembled a squad the way you had? No, almost certainly not.

There is no aspect of the success you have had that you have not poisoned with this and that is bloody criminal. Pretending it is all ok because it had some wider benefits is almost as bad.

I genuinely hope this does not destroy your club, I hope you come back with some of the humility you have long claimed was a virtue and we can go back to competing fairly, but I worry the repercussions could destroy your club. This has damaged all of domestic rugby significantly and I firmly believe we have not heard the end of it yet.

Is it only I who finds it tiresome when a visitor conflates the club's fans with the club? I very much doubt that our fans claim credit for the development of academy players. I am pretty certain that the fans cdid not commit the sins of which the vlub has been found guilty.



£721.05 (*) donated to the Saracens Foundation due to visits to the Sarries frontpage [www.rugbynetwork.net]

Please read and submit articles for publication.


(*) As at October 31, 2018.

Re: Mark McCall
Cereal Killer 20 January, 2020 16:35
+1!

Re: Mark McCall
ROLLO 20 January, 2020 16:41
Spot on Keffer K

Re: Mark McCall
boomer! 20 January, 2020 17:18
Quote:
TonyTaff
Quote:
Vespulavulgaris
Quote:
Banzai1314
We have continually developed average and academy players into England and Lions players - and you don’t think that will be remembered?

No.

Firstly because you constantly take credit for developing players you did no such thing for.

Secondly because any success is tainted by the cheating. Would you have developed academy players to the same degree if you had not assembled a squad the way you had? No, almost certainly not.

There is no aspect of the success you have had that you have not poisoned with this and that is bloody criminal. Pretending it is all ok because it had some wider benefits is almost as bad.

I genuinely hope this does not destroy your club, I hope you come back with some of the humility you have long claimed was a virtue and we can go back to competing fairly, but I worry the repercussions could destroy your club. This has damaged all of domestic rugby significantly and I firmly believe we have not heard the end of it yet.

Is it only I who finds it tiresome when a visitor conflates the club's fans with the club? I very much doubt that our fans claim credit for the development of academy players. I am pretty certain that the fans cdid not commit the sins of which the vlub has been found guilty.


Nope. We all do TT

Wasps are annoying at the best of time but put a glass of sugared water in front of them and they are unbearable.

The sad part is that he really thinks we has something worthwhile to say when in reality it is just a freaking annoying buzz.

Thankfully my severe tinnitus masks most of the noise .



It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Re: Mark McCall
Vespulavulgaris 20 January, 2020 17:35
Nice.

All part of the Sarries family eh? And with behaviour like that you wonder why fans of every single other club are happy about you getting relegated...

Re: Mark McCall
boomer! 20 January, 2020 17:39
Quote:
Vespulavulgaris
Nice.
All part of the Sarries family eh? And with behaviour like that you wonder why fans of every single other club are happy about you getting relegated...


Why are you here? You are not welcome and offer no value. Your life must be so sad & tragic that all there is for you is to pitch camp on the Saracens message board pouring our your bile and vitriol.



It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Re: Mark McCall
Cereal Killer 20 January, 2020 17:56
Quote:
Vespulavulgaris
Nice.
All part of the Sarries family eh? And with behaviour like that you wonder why fans of every single other club are happy about you getting relegated...

You wouldn’t be part of the Saracens family being a wasps fan and all. Please don’t feel obligated to keep posting on the Saracens board. Shame there isn’t a wasps version, they might welcome you.

Re: Mark McCall
derbyshire fan 20 January, 2020 18:11
The trouble is we don’t know why or by how much we are over the cap this year - I still very much doubt that it is because the monthly payroll cheques to the players are over the cap (if we are over the cap on base pay, then that would very much involve the DoR) - but because of the way that the Cap Regulations treat the co-investments etc. As I read the regs, co-investments are treated as if the total amount is ‘salary’ (irrespective of the actual or potential benefit to the player) - and then spread over the remaining contract life - so a co-investment with a player in the 2018/19 season (then in the first of three years of a contract) if still existing would also count towards a cap breach in 2019/20 (and the following year - if not bought out by then)

So yet another reason why we need to have transparency from PRL

Re: Mark McCall
myleftboot 20 January, 2020 18:14
Quote:
Vespulavulgaris
Nice.
All part of the Sarries family eh? And with behaviour like that you wonder why fans of every single other club are happy about you getting relegated...
talking of families, how about the members of the 'wasps family' boasting of going along in Muster fancy dress to abuse Billy last season?

Re: Mark McCall
Vespulavulgaris 20 January, 2020 18:23
Quote:
boomer!
Quote:
Vespulavulgaris
Nice.
All part of the Sarries family eh? And with behaviour like that you wonder why fans of every single other club are happy about you getting relegated...


Why are you here? You are not welcome and offer no value. Your life must be so sad & tragic that all there is for you is to pitch camp on the Saracens message board pouring our your bile and vitriol.

I was in this thread talking about how tragic it is that a man who may have been one of the best coaches around will always be tainted with blatant cheating, and that because of it we'll never actually know how good he is. But if you don't want discussion on this discussion forum then you all go back to whining about how the mean club owners are bullying Sarries by pointing out their ongoing cheating.

Re: Mark McCall
Vespulavulgaris 20 January, 2020 18:25
Quote:
myleftboot
Quote:
Vespulavulgaris
Nice.
All part of the Sarries family eh? And with behaviour like that you wonder why fans of every single other club are happy about you getting relegated...
talking of families, how about the members of the 'wasps family' boasting of going along in Muster fancy dress to abuse Billy last season?

I have no idea what you mean, but Wasps like every other club has some less desirable types in its numbers. Poking fun at Billy is one thing, genuinel abusing him is another entirely. Though there are quite a few Wasps fans still upset about the way he left us for you. It wasn't done well by him. Not that that is any excuse of course.

Re: Mark McCall
Cereal Killer 20 January, 2020 18:36
“ Wasps like every other club has some less desirable types in its numbers”

It would appear so

Re: Mark McCall
Statesman 20 January, 2020 18:41
Quote:
derbyshire fan
The trouble is we don’t know why or by how much we are over the cap this year - I still very much doubt that it is because the monthly payroll cheques to the players are over the cap (if we are over the cap on base pay, then that would very much involve the DoR) - but because of the way that the Cap Regulations treat the co-investments etc. As I read the regs, co-investments are treated as if the total amount is ‘salary’ (irrespective of the actual or potential benefit to the player) - and then spread over the remaining contract life - so a co-investment with a player in the 2018/19 season (then in the first of three years of a contract) if still existing would also count towards a cap breach in 2019/20 (and the following year - if not bought out by then)
So yet another reason why we need to have transparency from PRL

df, there are 2 reasons why we do not have the transparency you demand. One is that the PRL won't allow it - the other is that Saracens won't allow it.

FWIW, I agree with you that transparency is critical in restoring some sort of confidence around the SCR's - I think I first called for it last March - a demand which was universally rejected at the time by Sarries supporters on here.

With regard to the JV's there are 2 things that count towards Salary - loans and profit. I can see no reference to spreading over contract life so I have no idea where you have got that from? My expectation is that the JV's generate very little profit. So that leaves the loans. My reading of the SCR's is that the loans count as Salary in the year that they were made (if not repaid in that year) but you could also read the SCR's as saying that they count as Salary in every year that they remain unpaid. As you say transparency would help our understanding.

Re: Mark McCall
Vespulavulgaris 20 January, 2020 19:04
Quote:
Cereal Killer
“ Wasps like every other club has some less desirable types in its numbers”
It would appear so

Fair enough. Run along back to your echo chamber. I hope you still have a club in a year or two and that we all still have a reputable sport to follow.

Re: Mark McCall
Cereal Killer 20 January, 2020 19:13
Quote:
Vespulavulgaris
Quote:
Cereal Killer
“ Wasps like every other club has some less desirable types in its numbers”
It would appear so

Fair enough. Run along back to your echo chamber. I hope you still have a club in a year or two and that we all still have a reputable sport to follow.

We both want the same thing then. It’s nice to agree. I guess this site would be my echo chamber so you will be leaving, so long and thanks a lot for your constructive feedback.

Re: Mark McCall
ComeOnSarries 20 January, 2020 19:30
To bring this thread back on message.

I have nothing but admiration for the coaching set up Mark McCall has built at Saracens and he and his fellow coaches can hold their heads up high. They have brought through numerous young players many of whom now also play for other clubs whilst also developing the natural gifts of some of England’s finest eg Owen, Jamie, Maro, Billy etc. They have also built a great team culture that counts when the times are tough - just look at the 2nd half on Sunday.

They are definitely not to blame for the failings of the Saracens Board in recent years. You don’t expect the DoR to also be the Finance Director.

To be clear I think retaining Mark and the current coaches is the single most important thing that the new Board can do in the coming weeks,

Re: Mark McCall
Sorry Sarrie 20 January, 2020 19:36
Jesus this message Board is plumbing new depths on a daily basis!!

Re: Mark McCall
backdoc 20 January, 2020 19:56
Perhaps you will enjoy this then:

"Following the remarkable announcement by Premiership Rugby that Saracens will be relegated from England’s top-flight, James While delves into the scandal.

Denial is a dreadful trait.

Commonplace amongst addicts, cheats and narcissists, it’s all consuming, leaving its victims unaware of how their actions and dishonesty affects those around them.

Let’s wind the clock back to November 5th 2019: faced with a 35-point deduction and a £5m fine, Saracens needed to execute two clearly defined actions to bring themselves back into rugby compliance and to prevent relegation. 1) get their current staff under the cap for this season and 2) win enough games to make sure they didn’t finish bottom.

It says everything about the systemic and cultural dishonesty of the club that they completely (and deliberately) ignored the first point and threw every dubious and illegal asset they had into the second scenario.


On the denial scale, this was akin to an alcoholic attending rehab then downing a bottle of 18-year-old single malt an hour later. The only people they lied to were themselves, their loved ones (the fans) and those around them. That is absolutely unforgivable.

Their defence seems to be equally without integrity; “We’re not the only ones,” they bellow. “Everyone else is doing it”, they scream.

Seriously? That’s as likely to garner judicial sympathy as telling the cop that just pulled you over that ‘everyone drinks and drives occasionally’.

Yes, there are rumblings that Saracens are not the only club whose books are littered with Krugerrands of dodgy origin, and it’s pretty obvious that the marginal gain culture that permeates on-field activity is now extending to boardroom strategy.

How deep this goes nobody knows, but the interim return of former CEO Ed Griffiths shows that the sinister mess he created is now so deep that only he can paper over his own cracks of deception.

Don’t forget, this is the administrator who, some nine years ago, handed a cardboard box to many Saracens stalwarts in a clearout. Including in that was pillar of rugby integrity Richard Hill, who exited the club. One wonders if he feared Hill’s influence on the club because it’s pretty certain that the English great would not have tolerated this cheating malarkey on his watch.


Over the weekend, Saracens were finally issued an ultimatum by Premiership Rugby (PRL): “Show us everything or you’ll be relegated.” It says everything about the depth of the deceit that Sarries refused to show their hand and took relegation, and it says everything about Griffiths and his management strategies that they took the latter route.



Which brings us to PRL. When allegations that there are other cases of salary cap breaches to answer, put simply it’s not in PRL’s interests to lay bare weaknesses in the game they themselves take to market.

You see, they own this product. Like Volkswagen and the diesel emissions scandal, they want this to go away with speed and they want to minimise the impact of brand disrepute. By acting in the manner they have, they will believe it’s the quickest route to making this all go away, but sadly, they appear to have reckoned without the value set of the sport it purports to promote.

Why are they able to do this? It’s because PRL appear to answer to nobody.

There’s absolutely no body or organisation that can referee their actions or bring into question their structure. In cricket, MCC perform an admirable role as the guardians of the ‘Spirit of Cricket’. They act as the fair and reasonable arbiters of honest play and sportsmanship. Despite their images as stuffy old men, they do an amazing job. Our sport needs its own MCC, a group of rugby folk steeped in the culture of our sport and who are able to set aside any personal agenda for the good name of their own community.

To many of the ‘Fez Heads’ and loyal Saracens, the punishments meted out already seem draconian. However, it’s the reoffending since November that is the bitterest pill to swallow. Saracens’ ignorance and arrogance in flicking two fingers at everyone in the game once they were caught is simply astonishing. It could be held that the punishments are nowhere near enough, as the people concerned seem intent on reoffending the moment they’re caught.

It is time to say enough is enough. It’s not outside the bounds of possibility that this incident may go to a parliamentary review, where transparency can be demanded. This may be the very best thing that could happen right now.


With regards to Saracens, both their non-executive directors, acting directors and senior coaching staff knew everything and, on that basis, need to face personal sanctions and be removed from any involvement in the game completely, sine die. If that means the club ceases trading, so be it. Like Lance Armstrong, they can always watch the games on TV. For the investors, tough – it’s your desire for vicarious satisfaction that’s driven the issue.



Elsewhere, extreme pressure should be applied by World Rugby to the PRO14 and other contiguous leagues to refuse Sarries any form of ‘creative’ lifeline. There can be no compromise here; the North London club are cancerous and their tumour of deceit needs removing from the game completely.

With regards to PRL, they need to take a good long look at themselves and man up. Honesty, empathy and vision is now needed to reassure disenfranchised fans who have spent the last few years watching a tissue of lies. There needs to be action too from the RFU and there needs to be implementation of some form of guardianship of the spirit of the game.

Yes, there will be some angry Saracens fans reading this piece and disagreeing. Some players too may share a very different view to the one articulated above, but here’s the thing; many watch rugby because of its essences of respect, honesty and honour.

Saracens have insulted the very core of these values, not once but twice. That is unforgivable and removes every single quality of rugby that makes the sport unique."

Planet Rugby



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/01/2020 19:57 by backdoc.

Re: Mark McCall
Cereal Killer 20 January, 2020 20:28
Hate it when journos sit on the fence!

Re: Mark McCall
AlexInSouthville 21 January, 2020 08:15
Quote:
ComeOnSarries
You don’t expect the DoR to also be the Finance Director.

He doesn't need to be.

It's almost impossible that the DoR, in their role alone, would be completely oblivious of the playing budgets, the salaries of each player, contractual details, etc.

Re: Mark McCall
myleftboot 21 January, 2020 08:21
Thing is, we are all peeing in the wind. Salaries, he would reasonably expect an awareness of. Private business arrangements between Mr Wray and players maybe less so

Re: Mark McCall
PhillFez 21 January, 2020 08:22
Another potential thread for Sarries supporters ruined by trolls.

Hardly worth visiting the board these days.

Re: Mark McCall
AlexInSouthville 21 January, 2020 08:25
Quote:
myleftboot
Thing is, we are all peeing in the wind. Salaries, he would reasonably expect an awareness of. Private business arrangements between Mr Wray and players maybe less so

That's true. (although it does open up another whole can of worms about off-the-books payments to players, and, presumably, their agents - with any HMRC implications that that has).

Hindsight is 20/20, but when they decided to move to a salary cap model, i don't know why PRL didn't just 'copy, paste' the NFL regs and governance in their entirety... they have already gone through all the teething issues.

Re: Mark McCall
myleftboot 21 January, 2020 08:55
NFL regs involve draft picks,and the subsequent loss of, as a primary enforcement model don't they? are you Rob Baxter in disguise?!!

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