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Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
Discussion started by LutonS , 06 March, 2020 13:11
Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
LutonS 06 March, 2020 13:11

Do you intend to renew your ticket for next season?

Definitely renewing
Want to renew but waiting for pricing
Unlikely to renew but could be swayed
Not renewing

You must be logged in to vote.

76 Votes

Show results

Just thought it would be interesting to gauge opinions now some of the internal ire at the SC revelations may have dimmed a little.

I have to confess I started off as furious with the club and of the options above "Unlikely to renew but could be swayed" but as time has gone by I've moved into the "want to renew but waiting for pricing" category.

Re: Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
AP 06 March, 2020 13:51
"I want to renew but what's the business plan for (i) next season and (ii) the following two to four seasons?"



Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade

Re: Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
Roger G 06 March, 2020 13:56
I want to renew, but what's the price, and how (if at all) am I going to be compensated/incentivised for my loyalty in the face of severe exploitation and misdeeds in the past.

Re: Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
#wolfpack 06 March, 2020 14:09
Renewing. Looking forward to it.

Re: Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
Duncan96 06 March, 2020 15:40
This is going to be a little long winded so please forgive me as I put forward my view, which I suspect I may be alone in holding:

In recent years there have been 2 major mistakes (to put it mildly) by NW. One was the way in which season ticket price rises were implemented a couple of years ago (and it's hard to see how the chairman was not central to such decisions) and the other was, of course, the breaches which must not be mentioned other than on another thread (and quite right too).

The complete lack of empathy, communication and understanding of how the above price rises would affect many for whom it was a big drain on disposable income was incompetent.

And, of course, the unmentionable is no fault of the fans (although we did enjoy many wonderful occasions off the back of it)

BUT:

Saracens have consistently lost between £3m and £5m per year. I don't think Rugby Union clubs, with their huge squads, minority audiences, fixed stadium capacities and extensive coaching staffs will ever have large capital values. At best they can aspire to be self sustaining (i.e. break even over the long term) and so NW will never recover the £50m plus he has sunk into Saracens. I've heard from friends of his that being self sustaining once he is no longer able to support it is what he hopes for Saracens (and for our sakes I hope he will carry on supporting the club until the holy grail of sustainability is achieved if that's ever possible).

So, if you are with me on that analysis, there are 2 conclusions:

1. Putting prices up is a huge shame, it's painful for many, it deters the next generation of fans and keeps Rugby elite but it's not a crime and it's not exploitation. We have no right to demand that someone carries on footing huge losses so that we pay the same price. Having a bigger stadium doesn't help if the demand isn't there because people won't buy season tickets if they can get a decent seat for every match, especially if, like me, they work a lot of weekends.
2. A £3m and £5m loss each year represents a subsidy on each seat at AP of between £300 and £500 per season. For myself and the wife that's a subsidy of up to £1,000 per year to see some first class sport. That's more than a regular at the Royal Opera house benefits from. NW paid that subsidy for us.

This year, if you add onto the usual annual loss the loss of TV money (I gather there is a parachute payment but its at least 50% of the norm), loss of Sponsorship, lower ticket sales, lower away fan attendance, knock on drop in beer sales, hospitality etc it's easy to see how the £13m CVC windfall will all be blown on relegation when it was probably needed for part of the new stand and training ground.

I've seen it mentioned how much a season ticket is to watch Ealing etc and suggested that, as we are in the same league, that is what we should pay. But we aren't Ealing. We aren't a club set up to exist in the Championship. We are a club which strives to keep together as much of the playing staff, coaching staff and infrastructure as we can so that when (fingers crossed) we are promoted we can not just survive but reach the heights as soon a possible. That is going to take a vastly greater cost base than Doncaster have.

For all those reasons I see Saracens as a friend who I had many good times with and who looked after me for many years, who let me down a bit but who really needs my help now that they've got themselves into trouble and who I can afford to pay back for what they gave me over the years.

So I'm going to help them. I'm going to renew our 2 season tickets even if it costs a bit, I'm going to enjoy next season and hopefully I'm going to see my prodigal friend get back on their feet.

I think whatever pricing structure they come up with will be immensely unpopular in many quarters. I totally understand if its a huge part of your paypacket that you'll have a different point of view and I really hope the recent survey and words expressed on Wednesday about listening were an indication that lessons were learned from the last debacle.

But that's the way I see it.

Re: Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
AP 06 March, 2020 16:52
Thanks, Duncan, I think you have put very eloquently a lot of what I feel - but I would like to see evidence that there is a business plan designed to address this.



Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade

Re: Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
1876-Fez 06 March, 2020 17:25
I appreciate this was put up with all good intentions but I fear it will just become another hijacked thread especially when you read this from another forum..... perhaps delete it to stop more problems?

Re: Anybody else concerned? new
Posted by: SimonG19 (IP Logged)
Date: 06 March, 2020 16:03

Interestingly even if you are banned from The Cheats site you can still vote on whether you are going to renew your season ticket thread so I did. And surprisingly I'm not going to!

Childish I know but if it upsets someone there it was worth it!



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Re: Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
tpr's headmistress 06 March, 2020 17:31
Ignore the wassock and they won't need to dispose of him. Childish - more spiteful.

Re: Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
Duncan96 06 March, 2020 17:39
Quote:
AP
Thanks, Duncan, I think you have put very eloquently a lot of what I feel - but I would like to see evidence that there is a business plan designed to address this.

At the SSA/Season ticket holders meeting on Wednesday it was said that business planning was going on for all sorts of reasons. It was stated that one of them is that Barnet Council require a revised Business Plan to show their loan for the new stand is secure. I'm pretty sure another reason is working out what squad can be afforded next season.

Part of the plan is to devise Season ticket pricing which will reward/incentivise Season ticket holders to stick with the club through the next couple of seasons.

I'm not aware of any company which has ever published it's detailed business plan. Companies listing on a stock exchange sometimes issue forecasts but not usually.

So, apart from Barnet renewing the loan/alternative funding being announced for the new stand and the club stating they have a business plan I'm not sure what you are hoping to see in terms of hard evidence? Just asking out of interest.

Re: Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
boomer! 06 March, 2020 17:53
Quote:
Roger G
I want to renew, but what's the price, and how (if at all) am I going to be compensated/incentivised for my loyalty in the face of severe exploitation and misdeeds in the past.


You see there is the rub.

You want to be "compensated" when I can't see that you have been injured in any way whatsoever; and moreover, it seems clear to most that the club (your club) is haemorrhaging money so 'compo' is the last thing that should be on the board of directors mind at this point when they are searching for new backers, sponsors, and advertisers.


You want an incentive? Well here's one.

If you are a Platinum/Gold STH, how about the club knocking £300 off YOUR season ticket and then asking YOU to make voluntary contribution of, let's say £300.00 to go towards the rebuilding of YOUR club and its reputation.

Deal?



It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Re: Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
Duncan96 06 March, 2020 18:19
Quote:
boomer!
Quote:
Roger G
I want to renew, but what's the price, and how (if at all) am I going to be compensated/incentivised for my loyalty in the face of severe exploitation and misdeeds in the past.


You see there is the rub.

You want to be "compensated" when I can't see that you have been injured in any way whatsoever; and moreover, it seems clear to most that the club (your club) is haemorrhaging money so 'compo' is the last thing that should be on the board of directors mind at this point when they are searching for new backers, sponsors, and advertisers.


You want an incentive? Well here's one.

If you are a Platinum/Gold STH, how about the club knocking £300 off YOUR season ticket and then asking YOU to make voluntary contribution of, let's say £300.00 to go towards the rebuilding of YOUR club and its reputation.

Deal?

Its not a stupid idea that and I did wonder if there might be a proposal along those lines. Perhaps it'll be part of the "2 year package" whatever that turns out to be.

Another idea I read is that there should be shares issued in the club for supporters to subscribe money to. Again, not a daft idea as long as there's some honesty about the fact that:
a. The shares will always be "minority" shares and therefore have no power, and
b. They won't ever be worth anything and will therefore, in economic terms, be the same as paying extra for a season ticket.
Nice to hang on the loo wall though (Sm151)

Re: Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
boomer! 06 March, 2020 18:50
Quote:
Duncan96
Quote:
boomer!
Quote:
Roger G
I want to renew, but what's the price, and how (if at all) am I going to be compensated/incentivised for my loyalty in the face of severe exploitation and misdeeds in the past.


You see there is the rub.

You want to be "compensated" when I can't see that you have been injured in any way whatsoever; and moreover, it seems clear to most that the club (your club) is haemorrhaging money so 'compo' is the last thing that should be on the board of directors mind at this point when they are searching for new backers, sponsors, and advertisers.


You want an incentive? Well here's one.

If you are a Platinum/Gold STH, how about the club knocking £300 off YOUR season ticket and then asking YOU to make voluntary contribution of, let's say £300.00 to go towards the rebuilding of YOUR club and its reputation.

Deal?

Its not a stupid idea that and I did wonder if there might be a proposal along those lines. Perhaps it'll be part of the "2 year package" whatever that turns out to be.

Another idea I read is that there should be shares issued in the club for supporters to subscribe money to. Again, not a daft idea as long as there's some honesty about the fact that:
a. The shares will always be "minority" shares and therefore have no power, and
b. They won't ever be worth anything and will therefore, in economic terms, be the same as paying extra for a season ticket.
Nice to hang on the loo wall though (Sm151)

I have my first share certificate framed and hanging on the wall....I will be happy for it to joined with another.



It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Re: Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
Roger G 07 March, 2020 08:37
Quote:
boomer!
Quote:
Roger G
I want to renew, but what's the price, and how (if at all) am I going to be compensated/incentivised for my loyalty in the face of severe exploitation and misdeeds in the past.


You see there is the rub.

You want to be "compensated" when I can't see that you have been injured in any way whatsoever; and moreover, it seems clear to most that the club (your club) is haemorrhaging money so 'compo' is the last thing that should be on the board of directors mind at this point when they are searching for new backers, sponsors, and advertisers.


You want an incentive? Well here's one.

If you are a Platinum/Gold STH, how about the club knocking £300 off YOUR season ticket and then asking YOU to make voluntary contribution of, let's say £300.00 to go towards the rebuilding of YOUR club and its reputation.

Deal?

Boomer you are, of course, entitled to take that approach/opinion. How have I been "injured"? Well a couple of seasons ago, after holding a season ticket for nearly 20 years, I was given the choice of keeping my seat, but with a 55% increase in price, or moving to a much inferior position for a mere 5% increase. There was no thought given to the value to the club of my loyalty. My seat old was then sold at it's new higher price to corporates or well heeled newcomers who I very much doubt will show any loyalty to the club. Quite often some of those seats are filled by people who have only paid for a standing ticket, but move up to empty seats after a match has started.

I've also been "injured" by having to pay around £700 this season to watch what are, through no fault of mine, now relatively pointless matches.

So I regard Saracens as the "club I follow" rather than "my club", because the outgoing management made me feel that way - I was much more emotionally "invested" back in the noughties when we were unpredictable on the field but I was made to feel part of the club. I'm not a multi-millionaire (if I was I might offer to buy the club) and I'm not responsible for the increased financial difficulty the club is now in. We all know who is and he, IMHO, ought to take personal responsibility (as he did for the players he invested with) for continuing to top up the club's finances over the next couple of years at least.

I will continue to follow Saracens, even if the current situation turns into a tail-spin and we end up playing in lower leagues in years to come, but I will not pay top premiership prices to watch championship (or lower) level rugby.

Re: Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
boomer! 07 March, 2020 09:52
Quote:
Roger G
Quote:
boomer!
Quote:
Roger G
I want to renew, but what's the price, and how (if at all) am I going to be compensated/incentivised for my loyalty in the face of severe exploitation and misdeeds in the past.


You see there is the rub.

You want to be "compensated" when I can't see that you have been injured in any way whatsoever; and moreover, it seems clear to most that the club (your club) is haemorrhaging money so 'compo' is the last thing that should be on the board of directors mind at this point when they are searching for new backers, sponsors, and advertisers.


You want an incentive? Well here's one.

If you are a Platinum/Gold STH, how about the club knocking £300 off YOUR season ticket and then asking YOU to make voluntary contribution of, let's say £300.00 to go towards the rebuilding of YOUR club and its reputation.

Deal?

Edited Reply from Roger:.......

I've also been "injured" by having to pay around £700 this season to watch what are, through no fault of mine, now relatively pointless matches.


Sad state of affairs when you consider watching Saracens as pointless. Do you think any of the supporters of Wuzz, London Irish, or Tigers (none of who will win the prem this year) think going to watch their team is pointless?

Each to his own, all I can hope is that you are in a minority of one because if there are more that share your current frame of mind Saracens will not survive. Period.



It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Re: Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
AP 07 March, 2020 10:19
Duncan - business plan:

Very much what you say the club said at a gathering I wasn't at!

When the club puts on sale next year's season tickets, they should explain the rationale behind the pricing, what changes there will be in match day facilities, how the squad will be made up, what coaching and support staff will remain, what level of sponsorship has been retained, what backing Nigel has committed to, and what steps are being taken to maintain the club in the long term. Particularly if we are asked to commit to premiership prices or a two season package, or buy shares, I want to have reason to believe that the club will be viable for longer than a few months!

Re: Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
GazzaFez 07 March, 2020 11:48
Quote:
AP
Duncan - business plan:
Very much what you say the club said at a gathering I wasn't at!

When the club puts on sale next year's season tickets, they should explain the rationale behind the pricing, what changes there will be in match day facilities, how the squad will be made up, what coaching and support staff will remain, what level of sponsorship has been retained, what backing Nigel has committed to, and what steps are being taken to maintain the club in the long term. Particularly if we are asked to commit to premiership prices or a two season package, or buy shares, I want to have reason to believe that the club will be viable for longer than a few months!

Don't forget ( as I mentioned on another thread) there will actually be less matches next season as part of a standard package; 14 down from 16 IIRC. So that's a 12.5% discount straight off.

Any 'showcase' matches will almost certainly have to be marketed and sold as one-offs because it is extremely unlikely that they could be sewn up before the season starts and particularly before the season tickets are sold.

Re: Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
Roger G 08 March, 2020 10:35
Quote:
boomer!
Sad state of affairs when you consider watching Saracens as pointless. Do you think any of the supporters of Wuzz, London Irish, or Tigers (none of who will win the prem this year) think going to watch their team is pointless?
Each to his own, all I can hope is that you are in a minority of one because if there are more that share your current frame of mind Saracens will not survive. Period.

Boomer. Maybe "pointless" is the wrong word, but it's true to say that because our fate is decided come what may, our lads have nothing to play for in their league matches but pride and experience. The teams you mention, if they have a good couple of months, could be playing for Champions Cup places, so no their matches aren't pointless.

For myself, I find that my interest in this season has been completely destroyed, and I can't be bothered to watch other matches on the TV because they have no effect on Saracens outcome - I don't care who wins the league, and there's not going to be a relegation battle. I am still atending and cheering for our lads, because I already have the ticket, and I get a buzz from them playing well and winning....but it's not the same as being in contention for something. Sorry if that doesen't sit well with you but that's how I feel, and I know that I'm not in a minority of one just from talking to others.

An analogy for how I feel about next season if the prices stay as they are, although maybe not the best one, is it's as if somebody has burgled my home and stolen some photos or other sentimentally valuable stuff, and then I'm expected to pay for their meals while they're serving their punishment.

Anyway each to his own as you say. I genuinly admire your unrequited loyalty to the club but, as a pensioner, I have to cut my cloth (my ST costs around 5% of my annual income), and I don't think anybody has the right to be judgemental about my decision, whatever I decide.

Re: Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
BlackheathSarrie 08 March, 2020 12:04
Good post Duncan. I moved from my Gold to silver tickets after the price hike a few seasons ago. I haven't supported the club as long as many but don't now nor have I ever considered it my inalienable right to purchase tickets where I'd like to sit at a price I can afford. I now have silver tickets in the East stand up in the corner. If prices rise again I will look for red seats.

For the coming season if prices stay the same I will hope that the club make an effort to offer something additional to supporters prepared to pay those same prices. Whether they do or don't I think I will almost certainly pay because for me that's part of supporting the club however I understand and empathise with people for whom that isn't the case.

It would be nice to think that this season might see an increase in attendance for our hugely successful Womens team and the players of the future in the Storm team too. Don't forget that STs allow access to those games and I'm sure both sets of players would be just as appreciative of our support as the Mens team. I shall certainly be trying to get along to more games.

Re: Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
The Bard 08 March, 2020 13:28
I will definitely renew. Saracens have provided some of the best moments of my recent years and I dearly want them to provide more in years to come. I donít see why I shouldnít be expected to play my part in that.

Re: Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
Dave Berko 08 March, 2020 14:41
Quote:
The Bard
I will definitely renew. Saracens have provided some of the best moments of my recent years and I dearly want them to provide more in years to come. I donít see why I shouldnít be expected to play my part in that.

+1

Re: Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
jonnybrowne 08 March, 2020 16:55
Quote:
Dave Berko
Quote:
The Bard
I will definitely renew. Saracens have provided some of the best moments of my recent years and I dearly want them to provide more in years to come. I donít see why I shouldnít be expected to play my part in that.

+1

+ Another 1

Re: Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
Highbury Saracen 08 March, 2020 17:55
I will renew but hope pricing of ST is reviewed!
Looking forward to some new away trips smiling smiley

Re: Poll: Supporter intentions 20/21
boomer! 09 March, 2020 18:52
Quote:
The Bard
I will definitely renew. Saracens have provided some of the best moments of my recent years and I dearly want them to provide more in years to come. I donít see why I shouldnít be expected to play my part in that.

Well done that man.



It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.


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