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Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
Discussion started by boomer! , 13 March, 2020 11:20
Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
boomer! 13 March, 2020 11:20
No apologies for playing the devil's advocate here....

There are 12 teams in the English Championship
They play 22 games of which 14 have been played and 8 remain.
Making 40 possible points still available

Newcastle are currently on 66 points with Ealing on 53 and the Pirates on 47
Unlikely as it may be, there is still a mathematical possibility that either Ealing or Pirates could catch Newcastle.
(to be fair there is a very remote possibility others, apart from Ealing and Pirates, could catch Falcons but that is in the realms of fantasy).

So, if English rugby cancelled the season, with immediate effect, should Falcons, as current leaders, be promoted from the championship into the Premiership?



It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
GazzaFez 13 March, 2020 11:37
Along the same lines, if the season was suspended now, even with the original 35 point deduction, would Saracens have been automatically relegated? Who knows. I guess PRL would have invented another rule to suit themselves.

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
boomer! 13 March, 2020 11:51
I think Saracens would be relegated even if hell froze over.

The thought of the controversy a failure to relegate Sarries would cause is quite unbearable.

But an interesting point. Which could lead to the notion if Falcon don't go up, but Sarries do go down, there will be a 11 : 13 split in Prem and Champs leagues for 2020/2021...……………
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Breaking news:

kevball Premier League and Championship suspended until Friday 3rd April

Your move EPRC ~ RFU ~ PRL



It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/03/2020 11:58 by boomer!.

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
daz_71 13 March, 2020 12:18
Surely if the season is cancelled it's cancelled - i.e. you can't promote or relegate anyone with an incomplete season . Would that mean we stay in the league next season and start with -105 points? Mess

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
TOKS 13 March, 2020 12:25
As Gazza says, with the connivance of 12 chairmen and to the general consternation of CVC, they will invent another rule to relegate us and promote Newcastle.

Even a sport as corrupt as rugby wouldn't start a season with a team on -105 points. It would be fairly ridiculous.

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
boomer! 13 March, 2020 12:26
Or Sarries go down, as that is a given
Falcons stay in Championship as their promotion is not a given.

The 2020/2021 has the 11:13 Prem/Champ split and at end of 2020/2021 two go up to prem and one goes down to Champ bringing back 12:12 split

It could make Championship more interesting and would give Prem some space to play the cancelled 6N matches.



It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
Banzai1314 13 March, 2020 17:25
Just seen that Wasps have posted more poor financial results. I’m not sure it’s been discussed recently but is there a possibility that Wasps could fold and then what happens with Premiership numbers ?
(Head down waiting for the abuse from the Pests forum 1,2,3,4......,,)

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
boomer! 13 March, 2020 18:16
Quote:
Banzai1314
Just seen that Wasps have posted more poor financial results. I’m not sure it’s been discussed recently but is there a possibility that Wasps could fold and then what happens with Premiership numbers ?
(Head down waiting for the abuse from the Pests forum 1,2,3,4......,,)
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(Sm80)



It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
MaroonTyke2 13 March, 2020 18:30
This issue is going to continue for weeks (possibly months) to come. There will be no time to restart the season later in the year. So the only sensible thing is to declare the season over now and for the tables to stand as final positions. So:

Sarries relegated
Falcons promoted
Chiefs champions
European Cup qualifiers: Chiefs, Sale, Bears, Saints , Wasps, Bath

Champions Cup, Challenge Cup, 6N - all abandoned (along with Lions, Olympics, TdF etc)

Yes, tough on some. But Life is more important than Sport!

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
Surbiton Sarries 13 March, 2020 18:33
Quote:
MaroonTyke2
This issue is going to continue for weeks (possibly months) to come. There will be no time to restart the season later in the year. So the only sensible thing is to declare the season over now and for the tables to stand as final positions. So:
Sarries relegated
Falcons promoted
Chiefs champions
European Cup qualifiers: Chiefs, Sale, Bears, Saints , Wasps, Bath

Champions Cup, Challenge Cup, 6N - all abandoned (along with Lions, Olympics, TdF etc)

Yes, tough on some. But Life is more important than Sport!

+1

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
TonyTaff 13 March, 2020 19:23
It is grossly premature to abandon the Lions tour. Herd immunity is likely to have kicked in by then!



£721.05 (*) donated to the Saracens Foundation due to visits to the Sarries frontpage [www.rugbynetwork.net]

Please read and submit articles for publication.


(*) As at October 31, 2018.

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
boomer! 13 March, 2020 19:59
Quote:
MaroonTyke2

Sarries relegated
Falcons promoted
Chiefs champions
European Cup qualifiers: Chiefs, Sale, Bears, Saints , Wasps, Bath

If the season is to be abandoned then Chiefs cannot be made" Champions" as they have not won anything. They will just finish top of the table for the purpose of working out seeding for Euro tourny. Record books just show an asterisk as season abandoned


Equally, Falcon cannot be made Championship champions.
Falcons can get promoted just as division leaders as DNF.
Saracens go down.



It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
myleftboot 13 March, 2020 20:00
Quote:
boomer!
I think Saracens would be relegated even if hell froze over.
The thought of the controversy a failure to relegate Sarries would cause is quite unbearable.

But an interesting point. Which could lead to the notion if Falcon don't go up, but Sarries do go down, there will be a 11 : 13 split in Prem and Champs leagues for 2020/2021...……………
.
.
.
.

Breaking news:

kevball Premier League and Championship suspended until Friday 3rd April

Your move EPRC ~ RFU ~ PRL

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
myleftboot 13 March, 2020 20:02
Quote:
boomer!
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Breaking news:

kevball Premier League and Championship suspended until Friday 3rd April

Your move EPRC ~ RFU ~ PRL
Breaking news. As a proud Kevin, you, and the horse you rode in on can go forth and multiply! Who's with me? Waldo? Anyone?!!!

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
Lurchio 13 March, 2020 20:12
I stand with Kevs everywhere. It's comments like this and the even more odious "Wendyball" (with its clearly homophobic inference) that give Rugby a reputation of a sport watched by sanctimonious snobs. And before anyone replies I am not a snowflake and it isn't banter.

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
boomer! 14 March, 2020 00:03
Quote:
Lurchio
I stand with Kevs everywhere. It's comments like this and the even more odious "Wendyball" (with its clearly homophobic inference) that give Rugby a reputation of a sport watched by sanctimonious snobs. And before anyone replies I am not a snowflake and it isn't banter.
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YAWN



It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
Coughie 14 March, 2020 09:56
Newcastle hammered Bedford last night; 41-0, and now have 71 points.

I'm going to see Ealing play bottom of the Championship Yorkshire Carnegie this afternoon.

Yorkshire Carnegie are 'doing a London Welsh' and have 2 points. Even the return as coach of the legendary Phil Davies won't save them.....

Ealing will come second yet again. Hey ho, see you all next season....



~ You never knowingly let the facts get in the way of the story. ~

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
Coughie 14 March, 2020 10:00
Btw, how many players have Sarries loaned out to Ampthill?

Ampthill are 4th in the table, ahead of Coventry, Nottingham, Jersey, Bedford...



~ You never knowingly let the facts get in the way of the story. ~

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
MaroonTyke2 14 March, 2020 12:01
Quote:
boomer!
If the season is to be abandoned then Chiefs cannot be made" Champions" as they have not won anything.

Largely a matter of semantics. Except that if they are not "Champions" then the current champions get to hold on to the cup for another year. Can't see that being allowed to happen!

(My club side can claim to have held "T'owd Tin Pot" (the Yorkshire Cup) for the longest period, having won it in 1939 and held it until after WW2).

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
AlanE 14 March, 2020 18:00
Quote:
MaroonTyke2
Quote:
boomer!
If the season is to be abandoned then Chiefs cannot be made" Champions" as they have not won anything.

Largely a matter of semantics. Except that if they are not "Champions" then the current champions get to hold on to the cup for another year. Can't see that being allowed to happen!

(My club side can claim to have held "T'owd Tin Pot" (the Yorkshire Cup) for the longest period, having won it in 1939 and held it until after WW2).

And Leeds United are the last and current Football League Division One champions, from before the Premiership came into existence, an honour they will hold forever. (Sm60)



I was 17 miles from Graybridge before I was caught by the school leopard

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
boomer! 14 March, 2020 18:55
Quote:
MaroonTyke2
Quote:
boomer!
If the season is to be abandoned then Chiefs cannot be made" Champions" as they have not won anything.

Largely a matter of semantics. Except that if they are not "Champions" then the current champions get to hold on to the cup for another year. Can't see that being allowed to happen!

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The point I am trying to make is there is a difference between drawing a line under the FA Premier Soccer League where Liverpool has a virtually unasailable lead, and therefore most fair minded people may consider it right to nominate them Champions for 2019/202, and rugby where the Champions of the Premiership is determined by a knockout competition between 4 team. As we know and are reminded countless times, being top of the league after 22 games does not make you a champion. So it is still a stretch to terminate the rugby season and give the title to Devon Boys just because they are top mid season.



It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
BlackheathSarrie 14 March, 2020 19:00
This is certainly getting complicated.

Is the whole season written off? in which case to the teams at the top "win"? the Premiership or promotion or is it just treated as a void season? what happens to Saracens sanction if it's the later? does we roll over to next season with -70 points? Will Falcons come up? It they don't then have served our punishment this season and are able to play in the Premiership next season? Crikey ...

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
boomer! 14 March, 2020 19:11
Quote:
BlackheathSarrie
This is certainly getting complicated.
Is the whole season written off? in which case to the teams at the top "win"? the Premiership or promotion or is it just treated as a void season? what happens to Saracens sanction if it's the later? does we roll over to next season with -70 points? Will Falcons come up? It they don't then have served our punishment this season and are able to play in the Premiership next season? Crikey ...
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Some of my fear too.
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Regrettably I have no answers, and I don't even think the PRL have either.

This current situation is almost certainly outside their rules....and we all know that if they cannot find a suitable rule, they'll just make one up.



It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
myleftboot 15 March, 2020 07:34
Quote:
BlackheathSarrie
This is certainly getting complicated.
Is the whole season written off? in which case to the teams at the top "win"? the Premiership or promotion or is it just treated as a void season? what happens to Saracens sanction if it's the later? does we roll over to next season with -70 points? Will Falcons come up? It they don't then have served our punishment this season and are able to play in the Premiership next season? Crikey ...
if the whole season is written off, we didn't breach the Salary Cap?

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
GazzaFez 15 March, 2020 11:53
No one wants to be crowned Corona Champions or have the Corona Cup in their trophy cabinet. Not even Tony Rowe I would hope! If the season is canned now, as seems most likely it is far too early, not to mention presumptuous to decide who the winner would have been. That much is relatively clear to me so the season would be scratched.

However the whole promotion/relegation thing is much more tricky. Realistically you can't have one without the other at this late stage and whilst we are clear for the drop, are Newcastle any more guaranteed to win the Championship than say Exeter are to win the Premiereship? My view is definitely yes. So likely we would still swap places.

With PRL on the job, anything is possible, even likely.

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
Surbiton Sarries 15 March, 2020 12:51
I'd accept the drop rather than starting a new reason with minus however many points PRL have seen fit to dcok us by then,

Re: Whats, Ifs, Maybes, and Buts
BlackheathSarrie 15 March, 2020 12:55
Unfortunately MLB I can't see that happening.

I do wonder if rugby is able to be played before season end whether we might just have the play-offs for top 4? The Championship is now top spot comes up but the Premiership remains a knock-out.


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