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Other Fans Forums
Discussion started by Banzai1314 , 13 March, 2020 17:31
Other Fans Forums
Banzai1314 13 March, 2020 17:31
Long train journey home so popped over to see another clubs forum and was shocked that there are nearly 900 posts about us on one thread.
Doubt we would bother if the tables were turned but then again they are quite bitter about it. I wonder why !

Re: Other Fans Forums
1876-Fez 13 March, 2020 17:41
And most of the "not nice" ones are probably written by the same 6 or 7 people!!!



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Re: Other Fans Forums
Chris1850 13 March, 2020 19:45
I suspect that if you looked at all the other clubs' forums, you would find that Sarries and the SC has more posts than any other subject (with the possible exception of Brexit on the Bath Board!)

Not sure why that should shock you though, as the consequences of you having exceeded the cap over a prolonged period have effectively rendered the last 5 years domestic competitions pretty meaningless. As well as potentially having contributed to clubs' relegations and the subsequent financial and on-field consequences. Surely it is reasonable for other clubs followers to discuss this?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/03/2020 23:57 by Chris1850.

Re: Other Fans Forums
tpr's headmistress 13 March, 2020 20:34
Whoops, hijacked again - echo chamber time.

Re: Other Fans Forums
Chris1850 13 March, 2020 21:37
Quote:
tpr's headmistress
Whoops, hijacked again - echo chamber time.

Why do you have to troll your own board? Have you nothing to contribute to the OP?

Re: Other Fans Forums
tpr's headmistress 13 March, 2020 21:53
How am I trolling - are you not the visitor here. My contribution to the OP would be don't bother reading other forums as they're populated by people like you who just repeat the same thing over and over again - we know what you think and still we can't do anything about it so what is the point.

Going back under my bridge now if that's okay with you.

Re: Other Fans Forums
Monkey1 14 March, 2020 00:03
Quote:
tpr's headmistress
Whoops, hijacked again - echo chamber time.

I think you will find that it is you that has hijacked this thread, and it is you that has brought your own echo chamber to the thread. It was a discussion about other club message boards, and somebody from another club has quite reasonably offered an answer to the original question. I will now offer my view, also from one of the other message boards, on which this subject hasn't been mentioned for almost a month, which I hope you will not dismiss in a similar manner.

People are quite bitter because of what happened over a sustained period of time, and in the context of a competition where all entrants are supposed to have an equal chance, it is not surprising that other entrants are bitter because of what one club has done.

I do not know which club message board Banzai refers to, it is not the one that I guessed it would be, because I just checked, and all seems quiet there. Indeed it seems quiet on most of the message boards, people have moved on, and so they should. Even the prat who diligently patrolled all the message boards trying to keep this discussion alive seems to have (thankfully) let it drop.

So to attempt to answer Banzai's question, I can only assume that there is one individual who will not let this go, or maybe a little group of them, but on the whole, most of us have moved on and would not wish to be tarred with the same brush. If you have a dull few minutes to pass, have a look at the other message boards, and I would hope that it will restore your faith in humanity. If one particular little group of people wish to carry some sort of tedious point to their graves, then that says a lot about them, and nothing about the rest of the message board comrades who have (quite reasonably) aired their views, but have now said their piece and do not want to keep grinding that particular axe.

My advice to Banzai would be to ignore the message board on which you have found this enormous and tiresome thread, and continue to enjoy the others.

Re: Other Fans Forums
Roger G 14 March, 2020 08:02
IMHO other fans forums don't really represent the true view of the majority of "other fans" any more this one representst the majority of Sarries fans' views. I can't think of a single conversation (a proper face to face one) where friends and relatives of mine, who support other clubs, have had the depth of feeling that is seen on these boards (all of them...including ours). Most of those friends and family clearly haven't followed the debate about Sarries' misdemeanuors particularly closely, so don't understand exactly what they have done wrong or how/why the punishment was decided. They just accept that it is what it is and move on. None of them have accused me of being personally responsible, and neither have they called me names or fallen out with me for having a different perspective on the motives and actions of both Sarries and our detractors.

Re: Other Fans Forums
Statesman 14 March, 2020 08:41
Quote:
Banzai1314
Doubt we would bother if the tables were turned but then again they are quite bitter about it. I wonder why !

Have to smile at the irony that is the thread below this one. Most posts of any thread in the last 35. Some very unpleasant content.

Re: Other Fans Forums
Duncan96 14 March, 2020 10:30
Quote:
Roger G
IMHO other fans forums don't really represent the true view of the majority of "other fans" any more this one representst the majority of Sarries fans' views. I can't think of a single conversation (a proper face to face one) where friends and relatives of mine, who support other clubs, have had the depth of feeling that is seen on these boards (all of them...including ours). Most of those friends and family clearly haven't followed the debate about Sarries' misdemeanuors particularly closely, so don't understand exactly what they have done wrong or how/why the punishment was decided. They just accept that it is what it is and move on. None of them have accused me of being personally responsible, and neither have they called me names or fallen out with me for having a different perspective on the motives and actions of both Sarries and our detractors.

I 100% agree with you Roger. Even at Exeter at Christmas time, on the bus to the game and in the ground, we found nothing but hospitality and friendliness with not a hint of even a harsh look.

I took a short sabbatical from this board because it had become too boring listening to the same points from fans of other clubs being made again and again when I was trying to have a conversation with other Sarries fans.

Looks like the mods are doing a great job in removing this repetition but here we are again with repeated points above which weíve heard again and again. The mods canít be awake 24 hours a day.

There have been some reasonable commentators from other clubs who have changed my views (although I think the majority would have reached the same place eventually anyway as facts emerged).

Overall I think itís now a real weakness of these boards that fans of all clubs can comment on other boards. As said above, it means that the same people just infect places again and again (even when blocked they still send vile pms).

This arguing and nastiness behind the anonymity of the keyboard is the scourge of social media and weíve all see very public examples of it recently and what the consequences can be.

What would be really valuable is a board where Saracens supporters can have robust discussion among ourselves without having to descend into a row with other supporters on the same old points.

After all, if you want to do that, there are plenty of opportunities on Facebook and Twitter.

Re: Other Fans Forums
Chris1850 14 March, 2020 13:40
Duncan, you make a fair point and without doubt there are fans from other clubs, (but also from Sarries), who have gone overboard with some of their language as a result of an issue about which many people feel very strongly. If you think back to before the SC issue broke, there was generally minimal unpleasantness between fans of other clubs on this or any other board. That's how it should be of course.

Unfortunately, what has subsequently transpired has, understandably I think, caused enormous resentment amongst other clubs. I am sure you can appreciate why this would be the case. Much water has then passed under the bridge with that resentment being expressed on occasions in unpleasant ways which should not be condoned.

As far as this thread is concerned though, the OP asked the question 'Why are other fans bitter?' I responded, without I hope being provocative, by simply answering the question, as Monkey1 pointed out. TBH the poster who then drags the thread down is the one who immediately accused me of hijacking it.

Just as you can justifiably accuse some people from other clubs of posting vitriolic comments, there are 3 or 4 of your own posters who assume that [i]everyone from other clubs [i]are simply out to stir the pot. Ultimately, if you are likely to resent the answer, it is often best not to ask the question.

The sad thing about this whole episode is that most people seem to think that Saracens actions were so heinous that the fallout will take very many years to be forgotten. When put into context with say Bloodgate, arguably rather less serious but that still gets mentioned 10 years later, then I fear that the resentment against your club will continue for some time to come amongst many fans, particularly whilst NW is involved.

I hope you understand that my comments above are written with considered thought and are not meant to be provocative. Simply that I think they probably reflect how many genuine fans feel about the whole business.

Re: Other Fans Forums
Roger G 14 March, 2020 13:59
Quote:
Chris1850
...The sad thing about this whole episode is that most people seem to think that Saracens actions were so heinous that the fallout will take very many years to be forgotten....

Chris, I really don't think this is the case. Maybe that's the way the most vociferous on these MBs feel, but that's just not my experience of talking to many other rugby followers. There will always be some that will insist on carrying that justifiable hurt for many years but, after Sarries have "served their time", and assuming there are no further related scandals, most people will move on.

Re: Other Fans Forums
Chris1850 14 March, 2020 14:36
Quote:
Roger G
Quote:
Chris1850
...The sad thing about this whole episode is that most people seem to think that Saracens actions were so heinous that the fallout will take very many years to be forgotten....

Chris, I really don't think this is the case. Maybe that's the way the most vociferous on these MBs feel, but that's just not my experience of talking to many other rugby followers. There will always be some that will insist on carrying that justifiable hurt for many years but, after Sarries have "served their time", and assuming there are no further related scandals, most people will move on.

Roger. I hope you are right.

I was listening earlier to a podcast featuring Simon Orange (Sales owner). He was making the point that the SC regulations will be overhauled and made far more stringent following Lord Mynas' review. This will no doubt keep the issue very much in the public eye for the immediate future and, by implication, Saracens transgressions. Until the operation and policing of the SC is reformed to the satisfaction of all parties then it becomes very difficult for it to simply fade into the background.

Re: Other Fans Forums
wolfgangvonb77 14 March, 2020 14:38
Blame sarries for CV19

Re: Other Fans Forums
BlackheathSarrie 14 March, 2020 17:38
Quote:
Chris1850
Until the operation and policing of the SC is reformed to the satisfaction of all parties then it becomes very difficult for it to simply fade into the background.

I doubt that will ever happen tbh but the Myers consultation is a good first step and I think it would be fair to suggest that if (when?) Saracens come back up they will be the most scrutinised team in the history of the Premiership as is right in this instance.

I'd never try and speak for all Saracens supporters but I'd be very surprised if the "win at any costs" supporter base is any bigger or smaller than at any other club. My feeling is what the majority want is to play the game clean. If that means that we don't win so much, or even at all, then we'll simply enjoy supporting a club that means a lot to us. If we do win then I think we want to feel confident that we're doing it right this time with no ambiguity.

I'd also echo Duncans very good post. My experience both of visiting supporters and going to away games is pretty much only positive and whilst I have taken some good-natured ribbing and some slightly more pointed remarks you just don;t seem to encounter the keyboard warrior types when you're out and about IRL.

Re: Other Fans Forums
Duncan96 14 March, 2020 20:04
Quote:
Chris1850
Duncan, you make a fair point and without doubt there are fans from other clubs, (but also from Sarries), who have gone overboard with some of their language as a result of an issue about which many people feel very strongly. If you think back to before the SC issue broke, there was generally minimal unpleasantness between fans of other clubs on this or any other board. That's how it should be of course.
Unfortunately, what has subsequently transpired has, understandably I think, caused enormous resentment amongst other clubs. I am sure you can appreciate why this would be the case. Much water has then passed under the bridge with that resentment being expressed on occasions in unpleasant ways which should not be condoned.

As far as this thread is concerned though, the OP asked the question 'Why are other fans bitter?' I responded, without I hope being provocative, by simply answering the question, as Monkey1 pointed out. TBH the poster who then drags the thread down is the one who immediately accused me of hijacking it.

Just as you can justifiably accuse some people from other clubs of posting vitriolic comments, there are 3 or 4 of your own posters who assume that [i]everyone from other clubs [i]are simply out to stir the pot. Ultimately, if you are likely to resent the answer, it is often best not to ask the question.

The sad thing about this whole episode is that most people seem to think that Saracens actions were so heinous that the fallout will take very many years to be forgotten. When put into context with say Bloodgate, arguably rather less serious but that still gets mentioned 10 years later, then I fear that the resentment against your club will continue for some time to come amongst many fans, particularly whilst NW is involved.

I hope you understand that my comments above are written with considered thought and are not meant to be provocative. Simply that I think they probably reflect how many genuine fans feel about the whole business.

Chris: it doesn't matter whether you are being vitriolic or not, or reasonable or not. The debate about whether, to pick one of your points, Saracens contributed to other clubs relegation has been debated endlessly here (and I have absolutely no intention of getting into an argument on that one ever again in my life however reasonable you think the proposition is) .

The arguments have been well and truly done to death and we've all got the T Shirt. So you say you raise it in a reasonable way, and certainly your tone is reasonable but ..............yawn, I for one don't want to be stuck in that place.

Fair enough for those who want to carry on arguing about it. Go ahead.

But how different to the rest of social media, how refreshing and how downright useful it would be to have what we used to have: a place where people of like mind and common interest could enjoy their ups and downs, debate issues which affect them all but on which they disagree, and generally celebrate what they have in common without constantly being invaded by outsiders, reasonable or not, repeating points that have been endlessly raised over an extended period.

And that's not to say I condone the errors/bad deeds by Saracens which should only be discussed for good reason on another thread. It's just: can we please move on from statements and arguments which mean we have to constantly add paragraphs like this last one in order not to appear as insensitive deniers. It's just boring in a Groundhog Day kind of way and really inferior to what this board could be.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/03/2020 20:09 by Duncan96.

Re: Other Fans Forums
BlackheathSarrie 15 March, 2020 13:00
Well at what is becoming a somewhat worrying time I'm finding some welcome relief in the hilarious rank hypocrisy on the sites of clubs who have previously condemned other clubs for "helping" Saracens but are now look to be doing
the same themselves. What a bunch of numpties.

Re: Other Fans Forums
Adey 15 March, 2020 20:26
Quote:
Chris1850
Quote:
tpr's headmistress
Whoops, hijacked again - echo chamber time.

Why do you have to troll your own board? Have you nothing to contribute to the OP?

Thanks for putting her back in her box. Sheís never actually added anything of any value to this forum but always has something to say.

Re: Other Fans Forums
BlackheathSarrie 15 March, 2020 21:34
Quote:
Adey
Sheís never actually added anything of any value to this forum but always has something to say.

It seems your sense of what constitutes manners are as complete as your understanding of irony.

Re: Other Fans Forums
Exiled Falcon 15 March, 2020 21:49
Iíve posted on your boards before and other than moaning about Nick Tompkins suddenly discovering he was more Welsh than Ruth Jones I donít not think Iíve ever been critical or expressed delight at your situation, quite the reverse I would say. Anyway my take is like being bored of Brexit, I got rather fed up of continuing to see boards dominated by people with pitchforks and torches. Iím not going to sit here and say you as a club havenít been rather naughty, because you have been, what I am saying is life really is too short to carry so much anger and obsession. Others will disagree with me and thatís fine.

With the current horrific situation now dominating life and the media, hopefully once this is all finished, sadly probably quite a few months away, while the slate wonít have been wiped clean, hopefully the pitchforks will have been downed and we can talk about rugby again, not owners or boardrooms.

Re: Other Fans Forums
AP 16 March, 2020 08:06
Hear, hear, Exiled Falcon.



Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade

Re: Other Fans Forums
Banzai1314 16 March, 2020 09:01
+1

Re: Other Fans Forums
Monkey1 16 March, 2020 10:07
Now that things have calmed down, apart from a few numpties with pitchforks who will keep stoking things until they find something else to poke at, and while you are thinking about how people on the other message boards see your club, would it not be wise to change the picture at the top of the message board? At best it is now in bad taste, and somewhat provocative. It certainly doesn't foster good relations, put it that way.

Just trying to make things better, not worse.

Re: Other Fans Forums
#wolfpack 16 March, 2020 12:12
Quote:
Monkey1
Now that things have calmed down, apart from a few numpties with pitchforks who will keep stoking things until they find something else to poke at, and while you are thinking about how people on the other message boards see your club, would it not be wise to change the picture at the top of the message board? At best it is now in bad taste, and somewhat provocative. It certainly doesn't foster good relations, put it that way.
Just trying to make things better, not worse.

A picture of the European cup final victory? Why?

Re: Other Fans Forums
Monkey1 16 March, 2020 12:29
Sarries players celebrating in front of any sort of silver does not look good after recent events. Maybe you can't see it, but surely there must be other photos available. Up to you, but the whole point of this thread is that there shouldn't be hostility between rugby supporters, and sometimes you have to bend with the wind a little.

Re: Other Fans Forums
#wolfpack 16 March, 2020 12:36
Sackcloth and ashes for us all for evermore.

Re: Other Fans Forums
Duncan96 16 March, 2020 12:55
Quote:
Monkey1
Sarries players celebrating in front of any sort of silver does not look good after recent events. Maybe you can't see it, but surely there must be other photos available. Up to you, but the whole point of this thread is that there shouldn't be hostility between rugby supporters, and sometimes you have to bend with the wind a little.

A reasonable point reasonably put but Iím of the opinion it just reinforces my earlier point that we need a ďSaracens Safe HavenĒ where the idea of us having conquered French teams with budgets way in excess even of our naughty one and teams like Leinster with all sorts of non financial advantages (leaving aside the rumoured naughty ones) isnít considered hostile or provocative.

I.e. a place where we can have fun and be positive without offending even the reasonable people.

Re: Other Fans Forums
Happyindian 16 March, 2020 13:03
I hadn't noticed the picture...

... I have now...

... and I think it shows what players are playing for and that they (rightly) celebrate when they win matches.

No idea why anyone would be offended by that!

I don't feel this site needs to keep out us aliens but would not dream of coming on to troll you guys and make things unpleasant - the same way you are free to post on other boards and feel the same.

Re: Other Fans Forums
Gryff 16 March, 2020 15:18
I've read the Saints thread laughed and cried in probably equal measure. One of their oft repeated mantras is that we have to come back from the Championship with what appears to be a salary cap looking squad

I wondered what this would look like was going to post over there but told myself not to be stupid.

Assuming we lose Figallo, Kruis, Skelton. Clarke, Rhodes, Spencer, Wigglesworth, Barritt, Maitland, Gallagher and Williams plus a few others is that enough lol.

However that would leave us with a first team of say Koch, George, Vunipola, Itoje, Kpoku, Iswekie, Earl, Vunipola, Davies, Farrell, Tompkins, Taylor, Lewington, Daly, Goode with Barrington, Singleton, Lamositle, ?, Wray, Whitely Malins,Segun.

Would they be happy with that

Re: Other Fans Forums
Brown Bottle 17 March, 2020 09:09
Quote:
Gryff
I've read the Saints thread laughed and cried in probably equal measure. One of their oft repeated mantras is that we have to come back from the Championship with what appears to be a salary cap looking squad
I wondered what this would look like was going to post over there but told myself not to be stupid.

Assuming we lose Figallo, Kruis, Skelton. Clarke, Rhodes, Spencer, Wigglesworth, Barritt, Maitland, Gallagher and Williams plus a few others is that enough lol.

However that would leave us with a first team of say Koch, George, Vunipola, Itoje, Kpoku, Iswekie, Earl, Vunipola, Davies, Farrell, Tompkins, Taylor, Lewington, Daly, Goode with Barrington, Singleton, Lamositle, ?, Wray, Whitely Malins,Segun.

Would they be happy with that

It's good to see not all Sarries fans are in denial about what their club did. smiling smiley



BB

Re: Other Fans Forums
BlackheathSarrie 17 March, 2020 12:25
Quote:
Gryff
... Would they be happy with that

No. For a small but vocal minority only Saracens disappearing totally or coming back but being unable to compete will suffice.

Assuming we come back up I feel very confident the club will be 100% complaint both because of the extra scrutiny we will no doubt be under and also because the club have been given a painful although deserved lesson that it simply isn't worth playing around the fringes of the Laws.
On that basis I shall regard Saracens as having paid their dues and take great pleasure in their success whether that means lower to mid table scrapping it out or back to competing for the Premiership and European cups.

By then I guess Saints will be tired of Chiefs putting 50 on them every game and will be ready for us to give it a go again? *joke*

Re: Other Fans Forums
Monkey1 17 March, 2020 20:07
Quote:
Monkey1
Even the prat who diligently patrolled all the message boards trying to keep this discussion alive seems to have (thankfully) let it drop.

I spoke too soon, he's still at it.
(Sm16)


This Thread has been closed
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