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Brainwashing..
Discussion started by jonnybrowne , 27 July, 2020 10:59
Brainwashing..
jonnybrowne 27 July, 2020 10:59
[www.thetimes.co.uk]

Erm, slightly unfortunate choice of words, lads...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/07/2020 11:50 by jonnybrowne.

Re: Brainwashing..
tpr's headmistress 27 July, 2020 13:20
Behind the paywall, Jonny ....(Sm136)

Re: Brainwashing..
jonnybrowne 27 July, 2020 13:36
Quote:
tpr's headmistress
Behind the paywall, Jonny ....(Sm136)

Oops!!!

“This is an(other) interview on Zoom, but with not one player but two. And after talking to these rising stars of English rugby, I am wondering if there can be many better moves in the transfer market than this double steal by Bristol Bears taking Ben Earl and Max Malins on loan from Saracens for a year.

For Bristol, it clearly boosts their title challenge. For Saracens, Earl and Malins will return in 2021, having absorbed a year’s worth of lessons in a new environment. As Earl says: “We joke about it a lot, but from the age of 14 you could argue we’ve been brainwashed as to how to play rugby with the Saracens badge. That is one way of playing the game and it has been unbelievably successful. But there are many different ways to play the game and different ways to prepare, all these things are just another string to our bow.”

Re: Brainwashing..
MyCupRunnethOver 27 July, 2020 16:54
That Times headline is a bit click-baity, I thought

Re: Brainwashing..
Steve Robo 27 July, 2020 17:03
Typical journo making a headline out of context appear waht its not.
Got us reading it, so it works

Re: Brainwashing..
nedrichards 27 July, 2020 17:04
Agreed. The concept makes sense and is why for a lot of these players this should be a win-win. Going to work with great coaches and players and trying new things is a big advantage a number of our players have had from international rugby, or Lions trips. I remember Faz basically entirely changing his running and passing game on his first Lions trip and talking about it quite openly afterwards in a supporters Q&A.

Re: Brainwashing..
Sarriebone 27 July, 2020 17:18
Quote:
MyCupRunnethOver
That Times headline is a bit click-baity, I thought
It was, it's been changed now: "The Bristol coaches are hands on – at Saracens the players lead, say Ben Earl and Max Malins"

Re: Brainwashing..
Sarakene 27 July, 2020 20:29
Totally agree all. I was aghast until I actually read it. A bit “daily fail“ for The Times I thought. Worried about the aside that Max had done his hamstring in training. He does seem quite fragile at the moment. Hopefully he’ll grow out of it.

Re: Brainwashing..
AP 28 July, 2020 08:05
The journalists don't write the headlines.

What was the first version?

The Times has become a lot more tabloid recently, it's a shame.



Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade

Re: Brainwashing..
RobB 28 July, 2020 09:33
The times "Ruck" podcast has the audio of this interview. Worth a listen.

Re: Brainwashing..
NewPotnoodlehorn 28 July, 2020 09:54
Full Article...

This is an(other) interview on Zoom, but with not one player but two. And after talking to these rising stars of English rugby, I am wondering if there can be many better moves in the transfer market than this double steal by Bristol Bears taking Ben Earl and Max Malins on loan from Saracens for a year.

For Bristol, it clearly boosts their title challenge. For Saracens, Earl and Malins will return in 2021, having absorbed a year’s worth of lessons in a new environment. As Earl says: “We joke about it a lot, but from the age of 14 you could argue we’ve been brainwashed as to how to play rugby with the Saracens badge. That is one way of playing the game and it has been unbelievably successful. But there are many different ways to play the game and different ways to prepare, all these things are just another string to our bow.”

Thus will Malins get to learn the full back’s art from his new team-mate Charles Piutau, one of the best in the world. And Earl will soak up all he can on back-row play from the All Black Steve Luatua. They will both benefit hugely; somewhere down the line, England may do too.

Earl, 22, and Malins, 23, are the latest outstanding products of the Saracens academy. They have played all their club rugby together there, they played for England Under-20 together; Earl got three senior England caps this year, though he may not have got a headstart on Malins had the latter not suffered a break and then a re-break of the same metatarsal.

They both have vast potential. On our Zoom chat, though, it is clear they are having fun working out how to fulfil it. They are happy discussing the washing-up rota in the flat they are sharing in Clifton, the rights and wrongs of Earl’s statement haircut and what it is like training with Semi Radradra, the 15st 10lb Fiji wing.

It was a strange business leaving Saracens with their relegation pending, and stranger still with the limitations imposed by lockdown and the suspended season. They weren’t officially due to join Bristol until August 1, but this has been a friendly transfer, and both clubs agreed that it was best if they both arrived in the West Country as soon as possible.

They then had one day to find accommodation. And then joining the new club was especially weird. “Going into a team room for the first time with 40 to 50 lads and literally knowing no one — that would be a tough one,” Earl said. Instead, because of the guidelines, they had the opposite extreme: they started training in bubbles of six.

It didn’t help that Malins tore his hamstring on the second day. Nevertheless, Earl says: “We have definitely settled. We are loving the group.” It has got to the point where they can joke about the pros and cons of their “two” clubs: “We can constantly be like, ‘I love the way Bristol do this.’ ”

As fate would have it, their two clubs come face to face on August 15, the first weekend of the restarting season. You wonder if playing their other club isn’t the last thing they would want to do.

“I’m not too sure,” Malins said, though he knows he may have it easier in the backs. “But Ben is going to be having to run into brick walls and get lined up by every single player on the pitch.”

“I guarantee my head will be on a white board sometime that week at training,” Earl said with a smile. “We’ve talked about this quite a bit and it’s a bit of a weird one. But at the end of the day, Bristol are paying us to play rugby; we can’t decide if we are playing or not and we can only put our best foot forward.”

What are the differences between one club and the other? “Bristol’s better years are ahead of them,” Malins said. In other words, Pat Lam, the director of rugby, is chasing the pattern of success that Saracens have already established. “Pat goes on about making that lower bar higher, raising that lower standard. It’s a massive team thing for Bristol, getting everyone up to a standard where they can now compete for trophies.”

There is therefore a difference in ownership, Earl says. “At Bristol, it is quite coach-led, whereas we’ve come from a Saracens environment where it’s quite player-led, with the likes of Owen [Farrell], Maro [Itoje] and the Vunipolas. They’ve been evolving that system over the last ten years, Whereas this Bristol system is still pretty fresh, so it’s quite hands-on with the coaches.”

No one system is better than the other. “It’s a different environment and one that we’ve both found quite refreshing,” Earl says. For instance: “Watching the way that Steve Luatua trains; compared to Maro it is massively different. Which is right or wrong I can’t say, but it’s another perspective on the way to play the game.”

Watching Radrada, the Fijian superstar, has clearly been interesting too. “Very impressive” has been the consensus of his approach in training. “He’s been real nice to us,” Earl said.

The news on Earl’s haircut is that “My mum is close to disowning me,” and “I just thought I’d embrace the West Country and see how I fit in.”

He describes it as “business in the front, party in the back”.

“But there’s been no party,” Malins said. Indeed, this is still just the start.

Re: Brainwashing..
Sarriebone 28 July, 2020 10:13
Quote:
AP
The journalists don't write the headlines.
What was the first version?

The Times has become a lot more tabloid recently, it's a shame.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ed67RB_XoAIuYFt?format=jpg&name=medium

Re: Brainwashing..
tpr's headmistress 28 July, 2020 11:12
Owen Slot - says it all really.(Sm111)

Re: Brainwashing..
Sarriebone 28 July, 2020 11:54
Quote:
tpr's headmistress
Owen Slot - says it all really.(Sm111)
To be fair to him, he did get the headline changed after it was pointed out that it was a bit click-bait-y

Re: Brainwashing..
myleftboot 28 July, 2020 11:59
I want to like Slot, I mean anyone who can upset Diamond that much is ok by me, but he's a low grade tabloid sensationalist hack posing as a ' high grade' broadsheet journalist

Re: Brainwashing..
Barty II 28 July, 2020 12:11
Worth pointing out also that Owen Slot (as stated on twitter) doesn't write the headlines, the Times have people for that. The article itself is pretty reasonable, the headline writer has just picked up on Ben Earl's jokey use of the 'brainwashing' phrase.

Slot's written some things I fundamentally disagree with before, but would be unfair to criticise him for this one

Re: Brainwashing..
myleftboot 28 July, 2020 14:51
But Barty, if Max and Ben weren't so honest, it would have been a sub-teen mag 'whats your favourite food/oasis album/colour' interview. There's not even a shot of the Mullett.

Re: Brainwashing..
MyCupRunnethOver 28 July, 2020 19:46
Quote:
Sarriebone
Quote:
tpr's headmistress
Owen Slot - says it all really.(Sm111)
To be fair to him, he did get the headline changed after it was pointed out that it was a bit click-bait-y

Max and Ben may have had something to do with it. Just guessing.

Re: Brainwashing..
jonnybrowne 29 July, 2020 08:13
Quote:
myleftboot
But Barty, if Max and Ben weren't so honest, it would have been a sub-teen mag 'whats your favourite food/oasis album/colour' interview. There's not even a shot of the Mullett.

Ben and Max are bright enough lads to emphasise the genuine positives in their move to Bristol, and get the point across that they aren’t just going to endure their year away and come home - which will reassure the fans they’ll playing in front of this/next season.

I did however think that the use of the term “brainwashing” was slightly unfortunate even in a jokey context.

Re: Brainwashing..
Chris1850 29 July, 2020 11:04
Quote:
myleftboot
I want to like Slot, I mean anyone who can upset Diamond that much is ok by me, but he's a low grade tabloid sensationalist hack posing as a ' high grade' broadsheet journalist

Are you not confusing Owen Slot with Sam Peters?

Re: Brainwashing..
GazzaFez 29 July, 2020 11:49
You can tell it's the silly season when we can get excited by a non-story like this! (Sm14)

Re: Brainwashing..
jonnybrowne 29 July, 2020 13:21
Quote:
GazzaFez
You can tell it's the silly season when we can get excited by a non-story like this! (Sm14)

That’s what working from home for the best part of five months has done to my sense of proportion, GF.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 29/07/2020 17:13 by jonnybrowne.

Re: Brainwashing..
myleftboot 29 July, 2020 18:04
Quote:
Chris1850
Quote:
myleftboot
I want to like Slot, I mean anyone who can upset Diamond that much is ok by me, but he's a low grade tabloid sensationalist hack posing as a ' high grade' broadsheet journalist

Are you not confusing Owen Slot with Sam Peters?
ah, it appears I did. Owen Slot wrote the article about that confrontation I read and the name stuck.

Re: Brainwashing..
Chris1850 29 July, 2020 23:35
Quote:
myleftboot
Quote:
Chris1850
Quote:
myleftboot
I want to like Slot, I mean anyone who can upset Diamond that much is ok by me, but he's a low grade tabloid sensationalist hack posing as a ' high grade' broadsheet journalist

Are you not confusing Owen Slot with Sam Peters?
ah, it appears I did. Owen Slot wrote the article about that confrontation I read and the name stuck.

No matter, because your description of a 'low grade sensationalist hack posing as a high grade broadsheet journalist' applies equally well to Peters. His unsubstantiated accusations against Sale's training methods and player welfare, later to be demonstrated as being completely wrong, was the reason Diamond, understandably, became so upset.

Peters has very laudable motives. Unfortunately, all too often, he has to become the story himself.

Re: Brainwashing..
jonnybrowne 30 July, 2020 18:22
[rugbyonslaught.com]

Now this is REAL silly-season stuff...

Re: Brainwashing..
jonnybrowne 30 July, 2020 19:22
Quote:
Chris1850
Quote:
myleftboot
I want to like Slot, I mean anyone who can upset Diamond that much is ok by me, but he's a low grade tabloid sensationalist hack posing as a ' high grade' broadsheet journalist

Are you not confusing Owen Slot with Sam Peters?

Think I might have accidentally “reported” this post - finger slipped on my phone screen. Sorry!

Re: Brainwashing..
Barty II 30 July, 2020 20:16
Quote:
jonnybrowne
https://rugbyonslaught.com/new-footage-of-maro-itoje-in-training-has-saracens-fans-worried
Now this is REAL silly-season stuff...

anyone worried please step forward....


anyone...



hello?




anyone!?

Re: Brainwashing..
nedrichards 30 July, 2020 21:19
Barty II: Indeed. Some lovely compare/contrast different views of the same footage from Charlie Morgan (Telegraph Rugby Journalist) on Twitter as well.

Re: Brainwashing..
OldMarovian 30 July, 2020 21:56
Quote:
jonnybrowne
https://rugbyonslaught.com/new-footage-of-maro-itoje-in-training-has-saracens-fans-worried
Now this is REAL silly-season stuff...

You can't win. Not enough contact and we're no longer trying. Too much contact and PRL will line us up for another 70 points for breaking distancing rules!!


Owen Slot is the end of a bell. Still waiting for his evidence that we were £2M over cap this season. A "fact" he diseminated fairly widely.

I like the actual article and it's great to hear that both have been released to Bristol early. Shows good respect between both clubs in terms of doing what's best for the players. I hope that both can return to Saracens next season with a Premiership win for Bristol to add to their accomplishments.

Re: Brainwashing..
jonnybrowne 31 July, 2020 15:33
Quote:
Barty II
Quote:
jonnybrowne
https://rugbyonslaught.com/new-footage-of-maro-itoje-in-training-has-saracens-fans-worried
Now this is REAL silly-season stuff...

anyone worried please step forward....


anyone...



hello?

Im as worried as I was by the same website’s report that we were planning to play Mako at fly-half next season...




anyone!?

Re: Brainwashing..
OldMarovian 31 July, 2020 17:36
I wonder how far down the list you have to go till Mako is first choice goal-kicker? Not as far as you might think judging by some of the footage from training!

Re: Brainwashing..
JO'G 03 August, 2020 12:13
Quote:
OldMarovian
I wonder how far down the list you have to go till Mako is first choice goal-kicker? Not as far as you might think judging by some of the footage from training!

thought it was fairly common knowledge that at school he would take drop-kicks whilst blindfolded for money. He was a fly-half in those days

Re: Brainwashing..
myleftboot 03 August, 2020 15:47
Having read Billy's book, I take any MakO schoolboy stories with a pinch (and a half) of salt. Ol Man 'Pola had them kids terrified!


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