Latest news:
New Page 1

Welcome to The Saracens. Our message board is primarily a place for Saracens fans to discuss our club. We welcome posters from other clubs as long as their posts are respectful and not repetitive and our guidelines are followed. To leave a message on this board you must register. To register click HERE,
Non-rugby posts are welcome, but please prefix your subject header with "OT" or "Off Topic".


Thought for the Day:
"THERE HAVE BEEN MANY PLAYERS WHO HAVE BLED BLACK AND RED
OVER THE YEARS BUT NONE MORESO THAN BRAD BARRITT
THANKS FOR THE MEMORIES SKIPS"

Latest: SARACENS 17:17 BATH
Next: your guess is as good as mine

Audio: Click the link below. If it ain' there, it ain't on!
Upcoming TV:

BBC Online Rugby Union Commentaries

The Fish | Rugby Union News | Fez Boys | Saracens Fixtures | The SSA | Rugby on TV


Championship fixtures 20/21?
Discussion started by Dalton86Fez , 30 September, 2020 16:02
Championship fixtures 20/21?
Dalton86Fez 30 September, 2020 16:02
Hi all
I see that the prem fixtures are due to be released imminently. Just wondered if anyone had heard whether the championship fixtures are due to be released any time soon? Or whether this is on hold due to Covid? (Sorry if this has been discussed) Hopefully we can get some crowds in soon safely to support.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
jonnybrowne 30 September, 2020 17:40
Quote:
Dalton86Fez
Hi all
I see that the prem fixtures are due to be released imminently. Just wondered if anyone had heard whether the championship fixtures are due to be released any time soon? Or whether this is on hold due to Covid? (Sorry if this has been discussed) Hopefully we can get some crowds in soon safely to support.

I donít think itís even been decided when the Championship season will actually start, so we may have to wait a while.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
hertsman 02 October, 2020 06:33
I suspect the Championship season for 20/21 could be abandoned if the virus impact continues for a while. So no promotion/relegation and it will be the season after that we can go for promotion.

I hope not, but got this funny feeling this covid is going to run for another year.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
Innings 02 October, 2020 11:23
Quote:
hertsman
I suspect the Championship season for 20/21 could be abandoned if the virus impact continues for a while. So no promotion/relegation and it will be the season after that we can go for promotion.
I hope not, but got this funny feeling this covid is going to run for another year.

As a general thought, we need a drastic reassessment of the relationship between covid and the rest of life as we once knew it. Without that rethink, I would be surprised if the 20-21 season took place. Without a 20-21 season, I'd be astonished all over again if there were enough survivors in the Championship to make possible a 21-22 season as we now know it.



Innings

Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2020 11:24 by Innings.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
Barty II 02 October, 2020 11:57
Longer it goes on, the more likely I think some form of ring fencing becomes. Particularly if PRL stakeholders (including us) can overcome their ego, and protect as many of the top teams as possible, including those in the Championship with aspirations of top flight rugby. Can see many of the championship clubs reverting from semi-pro to amateur rugby to protect their existence, meaning the gulf in the middle of the championship could be as big as that between the Championship and the prem. Particularly if there's concerns of established Premiership clubs going to the wall, it might be that the best chance of ensuring the maximum number of teams survive is to pull the likes of Ealing and Cornish Pirates into the top flight and give them a few years guarantee.

Equally it might be seen as the excuse for the top flight to shut the door to the championship entirely, which would be rotten.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
TonyTaff 03 October, 2020 11:35
PRL might decide to allow majority voting, then ring fence, with Newcastle in and Sarries out.

If CVC were to decide to fund a defence, Sarries might not sue.

Singalong now: "Always look on the bright side of life ... "



£721.05 (*) donated to the Saracens Foundation due to visits to the Sarries frontpage [www.rugbynetwork.net]

Please read and submit articles for publication.


(*) As at October 31, 2018.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2020 11:53 by TonyTaff.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
scrappydoo 05 October, 2020 06:02
Quote:
Innings
Quote:
hertsman
I suspect the Championship season for 20/21 could be abandoned if the virus impact continues for a while. So no promotion/relegation and it will be the season after that we can go for promotion.
I hope not, but got this funny feeling this covid is going to run for another year.

As a general thought, we need a drastic reassessment of the relationship between covid and the rest of life as we once knew it. Without that rethink, I would be surprised if the 20-21 season took place. Without a 20-21 season, I'd be astonished all over again if there were enough survivors in the Championship to make possible a 21-22 season as we now know it.

If a club has the proven ability to field a team and fulfil the fixture but the opposition can't then the 20-0 rule applies. If both teams can't fulfil the fixture than a 0-0 draw. No club is forced to incur cost they can't meet, but those who can and want to play can. That way the season can progress.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
LutonS 05 October, 2020 07:41
Quote:
TonyTaff
PRL might decide to allow majority voting, then ring fence, with Newcastle in and Sarries out.

Wouldn't a change to majority voting need a unanimous vote first though?

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
TonyTaff 05 October, 2020 07:51
Quote:
LutonS
Quote:
TonyTaff
PRL might decide to allow majority voting, then ring fence, with Newcastle in and Sarries out.

Wouldn't a change to majority voting need a unanimous vote first though?

One would think so. However, PRL has got form for making up rules!



£721.05 (*) donated to the Saracens Foundation due to visits to the Sarries frontpage [www.rugbynetwork.net]

Please read and submit articles for publication.


(*) As at October 31, 2018.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
South Beds Sarrie 05 October, 2020 08:37
I think the point about society and the government's overall approach to Covid-19 is very valid. Against that background, the current position on the virus, and the current problems in the Premiership and elsewhere, I can't see there being a 2020/21 Championship season at all.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
Dolph42 05 October, 2020 09:47
Beyond the lack of revenue that comes with no supporters is the added cost of Covid testing, which currently works out to be approx. £8,000 per club per week. A significant extra expense which I would imagine only ourselves and Ealing can afford. Taken together with the fact that it is going to be easier for a fully professional to isolate and remain low risk than a semi pro that might have to go out and work and have less medical expertise at the club etc.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
nedrichards 05 October, 2020 11:25
TonyTaff: " If CVC were to decide to fund a defence, Sarries might not sue. "

I think if there's one thing that carefully placed story in the Telegraph from Vic Luck makes clear is to let everyone know that Sarries absolutely would sue.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
AP 05 October, 2020 13:59
I expect CVC aren't best pleased at seeing one of the best teams in the league and its players out and won't want them to be away for two seasons , particularly if that results in litigation when all sorts of things would come out of the woodwork.

I'd guess CVC are quietly working to a ring-fenced league with Saracens in it. Whatever your views on ring fencing, it's de facto here now.



Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
nedrichards 05 October, 2020 17:51
AP: Especially since the South Africans have decisively jumped in with the Pro14/16/12/10.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
hertsman 07 October, 2020 23:21
If the rumours are true, (well media reports but who believes those? (Sm13)), there could be some premiership clubs going under along with some championship clubs. If that happens, and clearly nobody anywhere wants that, perhaps there may be only enough clubs to run one league, so the premiership & championship will merge?

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
GazzaFez 08 October, 2020 02:24
I have to say my gut instinct is that the publication of the new season's Premiership fixtures is just a bit premature. Anything could change at the last minute and if recent history is anything to go by, then it easily could do. Frankly I'd be amazed if several clubs (Prem and/or Championship) haven't gone under by next summer, or the end of the coming season whenever that might be. The only alternative is massive pay cuts, well beyond anything we've seen so far, particularly for the players, unless by a miracle an effective vaccine is approved by say Christmas.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
AP 08 October, 2020 08:04
Premiership Rugby is asking the Government (DCMS) for financial support.



Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
Surbiton Sarries 08 October, 2020 10:21
There was a quote in the Telegraph a couple of weeks ago from the Glaws CEO who reckoned they'd be gone in 6 months if they couldn;t get crowds back. A similar story eklsewhere, I imagine

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
GazzaFez 08 October, 2020 10:59
Quote:
AP
Premiership Rugby is asking the Government (DCMS) for financial support.

If it comes there will be strings attached. It's very hard politically to justify user taxpayer's money to keep afloat a company where some of its employees are paid hundred of thousands to run around a field with a leather ball. Brutal, but undeniable. If that's true of rugby, then it's a lot worse for football.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
TonyTaff 08 October, 2020 14:14
Quote:
GazzaFez
Quote:
AP
Premiership Rugby is asking the Government (DCMS) for financial support.

If it comes there will be strings attached. It's very hard politically to justify user taxpayer's money to keep afloat a company where some of its employees are paid hundred of thousands to run around a field with a leather ball. Brutal, but undeniable. If that's true of rugby, then it's a lot worse for football.

That's why the government is asking the Kevball Premiership to find the support for their less plutocratic brethren. I doubt that it will work; it's certainly a non-starter for rugby.



£721.05 (*) donated to the Saracens Foundation due to visits to the Sarries frontpage [www.rugbynetwork.net]

Please read and submit articles for publication.


(*) As at October 31, 2018.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
TOKS 09 October, 2020 10:47
It all just makes you glad that someone as highly skilled as Darren Childs is at the helm. All will be well.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
Innings 09 October, 2020 11:42
With luck, the people who are paid to run rugby will be gaming at least three scenarios. One will involve something vaguely like today's situation. Others will work on more optimistic predications.

On today's situation, I fear that professional rugby will get no specific government help, other than that available to any employer. That suggests that worst case planning must be based on possible short-term outcomes:

Top flight professional rugby as it existed in 2019 will cease to function. At least half the PRL clubs will be unable to continue as going concerns and will either fold altogether or revert to semi-professional squads.

Non-PRL rugby will revert to total amateurism, with pay-to-play replacing paid-to-play.

The number of registered players at all levels will drop by 30%, best case, or 60% worst case. The nurseries of rugby, like youth sections and schools, will have such reduced fixture lists that the leagues and traditional inter-schools fixtures would become meaningless until the much smaller surviving game was able to adapt.

I do not suggest that all this will actually happen, but the basic rule of risk management is to have plans that could come into effect in case of the worst.



Innings

Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
LutonS 09 October, 2020 11:47
Quote:
TOKS
It all just makes you glad that someone as highly skilled as Darren Childs is at the helm. All will be well.


I'll have a pint of whatever TOKS is drinking (Sm128)

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
Stumpy7780 09 October, 2020 12:26
It looks like Ealing and Newcastle will be playing against each other next month

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
jonnybrowne 09 October, 2020 13:00
Quote:
LutonS
Quote:
TOKS
It all just makes you glad that someone as highly skilled as Darren Childs is at the helm. All will be well.


I'll have a pint of whatever TOKS is drinking (Sm128)

I think there was a bit of irony in there..

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
The Substandard Biscuit 09 October, 2020 13:15
Before proceeding please accept that I fully accept that what Sarries did regarding the salary cap was wrong, it was cheating. No ifs or buts.

However, I always thought PRL was cutting off it's nose to spite it's face by sending Sarries down. Even without Covid, it was dumb. Takeaway the domestic English trophies, impose the fine. That hurts, but relegation ? In a similar vein, I'd also hate to see Tigers demoted, for much the same reasons. They, like Sarries, are needed now in our game more than ever, even if they are fairly clueless this past season, as the worst team in the Premiership.

This view was confirmed by:
1. the above thread,
2. I've also heard there are at least 3 premiership clubs currently in severe financial straits = worse than the Gloucester CEO's forecast - at least he has 6 months;
3. BBC's Rugby Union Weekly - where the team, including Sarries-hater Danny Care were unanimous in suggesting Sarries should not be relegated because they are a significant part out of the current financial mess the Premiership finds itself in. Sarries, and the players they have (nearly half the England team) put bums on seats at away games, and encourage TV audiences. Sarries also have an increasing away fan contingent (for possibly half the season) which helps revenues in those other PRL clubs.

I think publishing next seasons Premiership fixtures is one way the die-hard haters may attempt to slam the door on Sarries but I think it's just too premature. Unless crowds are let back in (= no way before Christmas IMO, and possibly longer), then those PRL Chairmen will rue their decision, as a number of clubs disappear, TV revenues shrink from 20-0 no show games, and CVC may even ask for some of their money back.

Even if Sarries came back in now, and they made a 13-team ring fenced Prem for a few defined number of years, Sarries would not win the Premiumship next year, even though they have no European fixtures. They are stripped of too many players. In fact EPL could slap a non-signing clause against them next year, to ensure this. Promotion of academy players only to the registered playing squad. So no Eben Etzebeth allowed, and Sarries absolutely stay within the salary cap.
Top 6 should be achievable however.

Someone needs to bang some heads together and install some common sense. Bloody-mindedness and a lack of professionalism is totally missing from PRL decision-making at present. But it has been for a while. Childs is clearly out of his depth, and some of the PRL Chairmen are not acting in the best interests of the game.

If the Championship is cancelled for next season, then Sarries players sitting on their hands for a year makes the rest of the PRL more impoverished and it will wither further. If they are forced to play Championship in 21/22, Sarries may have waltzed off into the Top14 or Pro14 by that stage?

This current situation will not help the recovery of any PRL club, and especially those facing imminent liquidation, for whom it may already be too late, as we slide deeper into the second wave of Covid, with a (safe, proven) vaccination probably only available in Q2 next year.

Happy thoughts....

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
OldMarovian 09 October, 2020 15:32
That's a good post Biscuit but relegation to the Championship was never simply about punishment.
I honestly believe it was an orchestrated attempt by a decent proportion of the other memebers of PRL to destroy our club. Not relegate but destroy.
As such I wouldn't expect anything that could be viewed as help even if it's common sense and even if its cutting their noses off to spite their faces.

The reason for the Championship not going ahead seems to be a combination of cost of testing and loss of revenue for hosting on match days. I would suggest that the clubs that are able to start the season bearing those cost do so and if needed play a truncated season. Ealing have the cash as do a few others although my feeling is they will be happier not playing and claiming via their lawyers that they would have had a realistic chance of being promoted without actually testing that against opposition.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2020 19:59 by OldMarovian.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
TOKS 09 October, 2020 15:58
Quote:
jonnybrowne
Quote:
LutonS
Quote:
TOKS
It all just makes you glad that someone as highly skilled as Darren Childs is at the helm. All will be well.


I'll have a pint of whatever TOKS is drinking (Sm128)

I think there was a bit of irony in there..


Well spotted, JB. I shall be sure to use the irony smilie in future to avoid any doubt!

If you read the CV of Mr Childs this isn't the first time he has been out of his depth, and his career of several positions has a distinct pattern of moving on just before he was rumbled.

Certainly not the cerebral tactician PRL needs just now.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
boomer! 09 October, 2020 17:15
Quote:
The Substandard Biscuit
Before proceeding please accept that I fully accept that what Sarries did regarding the salary cap was wrong, it was cheating. No ifs or buts.
....

Saracens were found guilty of unintentionally breeching the salary cap. That is not cheating. Period.

They were deducted the maximum number of points and hit with a hefty fine which was shared out amongst the other Prem (undeserving) clubs. Saracens lost their major sponsor. Local authority funding to redevelop Saracen's Copthall Stadium has been postponed indefinitely. We have lost countless players, the majority I am convinced will not return to Saracens should we be lucky to get promotion out of the Championship in 2020/2021 which is not a stonewall guarantee.

They were then subsequently found guilty without trial by a kangaroo court and deducted a further 70 points, sufficient points to ensure relegation. I shall never forgive the rest of Premiership Rugby for it. Never.

I shall continue to wear my merchandise with pride, knowing those three stars were hard fought for.

Supporters come come on here with their platitudes, I don't give a flying gvdl.
They can go etbj themselves.
Am I angry, you bet the gvdl I am.



It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
Innings 09 October, 2020 23:48
Why does every keyboard bore from every site other have to try to turn every thread into a dirge about what led to Sarries' present situation? This is a thread about the future of the Championship, and about rugby in England in 20-21, not about the salary cap and Sarries' behaviour.

To all of them, here's a suggestion:

Its's happened, it's done. Get on with your lives and stop trying to make everyone else as grey as you are.



Innings

Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
Nosher1979 10 October, 2020 08:21
T



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2020 08:24 by Nosher1979.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
jonnybrowne 10 October, 2020 14:34
Quote:
Innings
Why does every keyboard bore from every site other have to try to turn every thread into a dirge about what led to Sarries' present situation? This is a thread about the future of the Championship, and about rugby in England in 20-21, not about the salary cap and Sarries' behaviour.
To all of them, here's a suggestion:

Its's happened, it's done. Get on with your lives and stop trying to make everyone else as grey as you are.

Spot on, Innings - and in terms of your last paragraph, Iíve lost count of the number of people Iíve explained that point to I over the past year, although my answer to a drunk Quins fan who aggressively harangued me on the tube last Christmas boiled down to a mere two words.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2020 15:59 by jonnybrowne.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
mixmastermatt 10 October, 2020 14:55
Quote:
jonnybrowne
Quote:
Innings
Why does every keyboard bore from every site other have to try to turn every thread into a dirge about what led to Sarries' present situation? This is a thread about the future of the Championship, and about rugby in England in 20-21, not about the salary cap and Sarries' behaviour.
To all of them, here's a suggestion:

Its's happened, it's done. Get on with your lives and stop trying to make everyone else as grey as you are.

Spot on, Innings - and in terms of your last paragraph, Iíve lost count of the number of people Iíve explained that points too over the past year, although my answer to a drunk Quins fan who aggressively harangued me on the tube last Christmas boiled down to a mere two words.

Merry Christmas?

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
tpr's headmistress 11 October, 2020 09:23
It's a bit like 'no offence but...'. You instantly know there's going to be some sort of criticism/complaint, but the instigator thinks that phrase will make it acceptable.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
jonnybrowne 11 October, 2020 09:30
Quote:
tpr's headmistress
It's a bit like 'no offence but...'. You instantly know there's going to be some sort of criticism/complaint, but the instigator thinks that phrase will make it acceptable.

Absolutely - the one I really canít stand is ďI donít mean to be rude..Ē

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
OldMarovian 11 October, 2020 10:08
Quote:
tpr's headmistress
It's a bit like 'no offence but...'. You instantly know there's going to be some sort of criticism/complaint, but the instigator thinks that phrase will make it acceptable.

Well tpr's headmistress with all due respect ... (Sm100)

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
tpr's headmistress 11 October, 2020 10:14
OM (Sm102)(Sm110)

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
OldMarovian 11 October, 2020 10:56
We're practicisng for next season.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
Cereal Killer 11 October, 2020 13:48
NID did you think your post would have been well received or that it was in any way positive/helpful? no offence

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
Never In Doubt 11 October, 2020 14:06
No offence taken - I did consider for quite a while as to whether to post or not but and in the end I did not want comments that were untruthful about the breach being unintentional to go unchallenged. So I posted but tried to make the post as factual as possible. If you read it again, it is simply a rebuttal of the previous post.

I genuinely hope the Championship fixtures go ahead and that the winner can come back into the Premiership as soon as possible. I recognise that some fans have gloated and that has got your backs up but equally there are a lot of non-Saracens fans who get rightfully annoyed when some Saracen fans claim they did nothing wrong.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
Cereal Killer 11 October, 2020 15:02
I which case we are very lucky to have you here to keep us in check. Thank you. I am relived we have somebody as knowledgeable as you watching over us. As Saracens fans we have done very little reading on the cap breach now we know we donít need to as you are here.

I was worried you were just regurgitating the same things trolls have been posting endlessly on this forum for months but obviously not. I genuinely mean no offence

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
TOKS 11 October, 2020 16:34
We did do something wrong. We were reckless and we didn't report it properly.

To those of us who have supported Saracens for a long time this comes as no surprise. We are an administrative shambles off the pitch.

I think the point that I and others have consistently made is that our punishment was disproportionate to the first line above.

Thanks for your input. Now, as my Scouse relatives would say, please do one.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
Roger G 11 October, 2020 17:22
I think we should concentrate on what people say to our faces, rather than the vocal minority that come on this board hurling insults. To be clear, however much I disagree with them, I don't include NeverInDoubt's posts in that group as his/her posts have been civilized and well presented. Rugby fans I meet face to face are generally in the camp that Sarries did wrong and were punished (some agree over-punished - some don't) but want to draw a line and move on. Anybody who understands rugby at all knows that top players alone don't create success (look at Sarries 15 years ago!), it needs top coaching as well.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
boomer! 12 October, 2020 13:20
Quote:
Innings
Why does every keyboard bore from every site other have to try to turn every thread into a dirge about what led to Sarries' present situation? This is a thread about the future of the Championship, and about rugby in England in 20-21, not about the salary cap and Sarries' behaviour.

You are right.

And I apologise to the Saracens on this board; I am still so angry about the way we were treated that I allowed SubBiscuit to bait me.

I must try harder to rise above it.

Gaviscon extra may be needed.



It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Re: Championship fixtures 20/21?
TOKS 12 October, 2020 13:46
Personally I'm in your camp, Boomer.

When it subsequently emerged that it was reckless and poor/abysmal/non reporting, as opposed to actual breaches, it ceased to fit a number of fans' narrative about what they would have liked to believe happened. The original report didn't make it very clear at all and heavily implied there had been breaches.

So Exeter get to win a couple of titles now, and while we have mindless trolls saying "You only won it because you cheated", they will have the same mindless trolls say "Oh you only won it because Sarries weren't in it".

No one wins really. Especially not the sport of rugby union (and the England team).


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net