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MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
12 November, 2019 23:22
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
Joe
Labour have been asked to join the coalition but they also know that if they agree to PR they will never enjoy a majority government again.

With the loss of the Scottish Labour seats to the SNP it is arguable that that is already the case. The SNP will support Labour in exchange for INDYREF2 being granted but then those seats will be permanently gone. This might be Labour's last opportunity for a very long time to change the voting system from a position of relative power.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

John Tee
John Tee
13 November, 2019 19:06
Quote:
BBandW
Quote:
John Tee
They are all at it... Lib dems, Greens, Brexity party, Tories.
I dont see the difference

I'll think you'll find that only Farage has withdrawn 50% of his candidates only days after saying they were all standing. Seems rather a large difference to me.

How long before the other 50% are withdrawn before they are under orders at the starting gate ?

wasnt the case when i posted. iirc
personally i dont like to see these type of deals but since one side of the brexit argument is doing it, then why wouldn't the other..?

And i didnt mention labour... no real reason but then no one knows
what policy on brexit theyll come up next anyway.

John Tee
John Tee
13 November, 2019 19:12
Quote:
Mike the Taxi
In the eventuality of a Tory majority, what's to stop them repealing the 'No Hard Brexit' Act, and going for 'Hard Brexit'?

I assume they could in theory, but whilst many say they will, i dont see why they would...unless Johnson wants to tweak his deal.

He could save the divorce fee though.....
or make it conditional on a trade deal which would make more sense

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
13 November, 2019 19:15
I think Farages’ backers are slowly backing out hence the decision. Wait for a few more!



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
13 November, 2019 20:29
Quote:
ChippenhamRoman

And the Tory Party’s transformation is complete.

Why fight them or convince them of Hard No Deal Brexit when you can simply take them over and get your ideas implemented?

The very thing that “Call me Dave” was afraid off has happened. The Conservative and Unionist Party is now UKIP/BREXIT.

No broad church here.

J

Written by someone displaying no knowledge of the history of the Conservative party... It's membership has always been overwhelmingly Eurosceptic and only it's arcane processes and preferences for selecting 'mates', for want of a better term, kept a pro-European hold on the party.

(It's also true of the parties liberal policies but they are under no threat regardless of the media chatter).

They are also not standing on a platform of No Deal btw, they actually have a deal. One negotiated with the EU...

Labour, on the other hand... Members signed up at short notice with a coordinated movement to elect a strongly Socialist leader with a number of undesirable views. The only reason it continues to have some moderate members is because they are to afraid to resign and lose their jobs or they would overlook the unsavoury elements because they want to stop Brexit (a slippery slope). Both are cowards.



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
14 November, 2019 12:46
A friend of mine is on the committee at Wilton, Cameron's old seat and he was selected as their candidate because of his strong Eurosceptic views........of course they were pretty irritated when he came out in favour of Remaining!

BBandW
BBandW
14 November, 2019 19:44
Quote:
The Bear
Quote:
ChippenhamRoman

And the Tory Party’s transformation is complete.

Why fight them or convince them of Hard No Deal Brexit when you can simply take them over and get your ideas implemented?

The very thing that “Call me Dave” was afraid off has happened. The Conservative and Unionist Party is now UKIP/BREXIT.

No broad church here.

J

Written by someone displaying no knowledge of the history of the Conservative party... It's membership has always been overwhelmingly Eurosceptic.

Malco Ther Bear; I think you'll find that the UK joined the EU when the conservative party were in power. Not what one would have expected from an " overwhelmingly Eurosceptic" party.

ChippenhamRoman
ChippenhamRoman
14 November, 2019 21:30
Quote:
The Bear
Quote:
ChippenhamRoman

And the Tory Party’s transformation is complete.

Why fight them or convince them of Hard No Deal Brexit when you can simply take them over and get your ideas implemented?

The very thing that “Call me Dave” was afraid off has happened. The Conservative and Unionist Party is now UKIP/BREXIT.

No broad church here.

J

Written by someone displaying no knowledge of the history of the Conservative party... It's membership has always been overwhelmingly Eurosceptic and only it's arcane processes and preferences for selecting 'mates', for want of a better term, kept a pro-European hold on the party.

(It's also true of the parties liberal policies but they are under no threat regardless of the media chatter).

They are also not standing on a platform of No Deal btw, they actually have a deal. One negotiated with the EU...

Labour, on the other hand... Members signed up at short notice with a coordinated movement to elect a strongly Socialist leader with a number of undesirable views. The only reason it continues to have some moderate members is because they are to afraid to resign and lose their jobs or they would overlook the unsavoury elements because they want to stop Brexit (a slippery slope). Both are cowards.

Got a fair bit of knowledge of the history of the Conservatives.

We all know that this “deal” is mearly the exit deal. The transition arrangement.

The real “deal” will come at the end of 2020. That is when the true colours will come to the fore and the hardest of no deal Brexit will be rammed through.

I’d like to see how my previous MP (Michelle Donelan if she retains her seat) will vote. A remainer, a May dealer, a Johnston dealer, how will she pivot to defending the inevitable crash out Brexit.

Got to pray for a hung Parliament.

J

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
14 November, 2019 22:02
A brief history of Conservative Eurosepticism.

[www.theguardian.com]



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

gaz59
gaz59
14 November, 2019 22:26
I think you will find Mr Bear that your mate Johnson also holds a number of undesirable views and it is not as if the election of our PM was a triumph of democracy

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
15 November, 2019 09:45
Quote:
gaz59
I think you will find Mr Bear that your mate Johnson also holds a number of undesirable views and it is not as if the election of our PM was a triumph of democracy

They're world's apart... Stop deluding yourself.

That's what scares me about a vote for Labour. The ends justify the means. We'll throw one ethnic group under the bus because we get most of what we want...

This is the kind of thing liberal democracy was supposed to protect. Instead those same people would rather see Brexit stopped (and a majority vote honoured) rather than protect a minority ethnic group. Their priorities are a mess!



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

JFPC
JFPC
15 November, 2019 10:53
Quote:
The Bear
Quote:
gaz59
I think you will find Mr Bear that your mate Johnson also holds a number of undesirable views and it is not as if the election of our PM was a triumph of democracy

They're world's apart... Stop deluding yourself.

That's what scares me about a vote for Labour. The ends justify the means. We'll throw one ethnic group under the bus because we get most of what we want...

This is the kind of thing liberal democracy was supposed to protect. Instead those same people would rather see Brexit stopped (and a majority vote honoured) rather than protect a minority ethnic group. Their priorities are a mess!

I take it Muslims aren't the minority group you are refering to?



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
15 November, 2019 19:55
Quote:
JFPC

I take it Muslims aren't the minority group you are refering to?

See... The ends justify the means.

Come back to me when the Equality and Human Rights Commission begin an investigation into the Tories, rather than engage in party political deflection.



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

gaz59
gaz59
15 November, 2019 20:31
Quote:
The Bear
Quote:
gaz59
I think you will find Mr Bear that your mate Johnson also holds a number of undesirable views and it is not as if the election of our PM
was a triumph of democracy

They're world's apart... Stop deluding yourself.

That's what scares me about a vote for Labour. The ends justify the means. We'll throw one ethnic group under the bus because we get most of what we want...

This is the kind of thing liberal democracy was supposed to protect. Instead those same people would rather see Brexit stopped (and a majority vote honoured) rather than protect a minority ethnic group. Their priorities are a mess!

LoL

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
15 November, 2019 22:33
quote gaz59]

LoL[/quote]

Yeah, I laugh out loud at anti-Semitism too*...

*(Actually, I don't).



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

JFPC
JFPC
15 November, 2019 22:34
Quote:
The Bear
Quote:
JFPC

I take it Muslims aren't the minority group you are refering to?

See... The ends justify the means.

Come back to me when the Equality and Human Rights Commission begin an investigation into the Tories, rather than engage in party political deflection.

Just to he clear, I've never voted for either of the main political parties as I think they are (nearly) all a bunch of.....

The ends don't justify the means, that's my point. YOU are the one willing to throw an ethnic group under the bus because they haven't got the friends in the press needed to bring the issues to an investigation.



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

BBandW
BBandW
13 December, 2019 19:25
The majority of the electorate voted for revoke/second referendum parties rather than leave.

Chris1850
Chris1850
13 December, 2019 19:32
Quote:
BBandW
The majority of the electorate voted for revoke/second referendum parties rather than leave.

You sound like a Tigers supporter! The result didn't go our way so I am going to blame the referee!

MESSAGES->author
hemington
13 December, 2019 19:40
Quote:
Chris1850
Quote:
BBandW
The majority of the electorate voted for revoke/second referendum parties rather than leave.

You sound like a Tigers supporter! The result didn't go our way so I am going to blame the referee!

He didn't blame the referee he has just pointed out the score.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
13 December, 2019 21:00
Hold on a minute..so a vote for the Lib Dems (revoke) is the same as a vote for Labour (Ref 2) and also the same as a vote for the Greens.....oh I forgot its also the same as a vote for a party in another country SNP! Do you realise how illogical and nonsensical that sounds?
Revoke and 2nd referendum are two different animals incidentally.

Why can't there be a little grace and just accept its decided and it didn't go your way. Its like losing the game and kicking the ball over the fence! Time to move on, thats what the election was all about wasn't it?



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/12/2019 21:32 by shipwrecked.

gaz59
gaz59
13 December, 2019 22:49
OK Leavers you have a clear decision. Make it happen and make it as you want

Easily enough people have voted for 'Get Brexit Done' I cannot argue with that

Just don't complain if a) it takes a blooky lot longer to deliver than your guru promised and b) it doesn't fully meet your expectations for your Brexit

I am coming to terms with the realisation that this is not a country I recognise nor feel entirely comfortable with but that is the reality and I will live with it and help my children to survive within it as best I can

But Johnson can no longer hide away in fridges when the going gets tough so he had better live up to his own hype

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
13 December, 2019 23:22
Gaz, these are weird times, take away Brexit and its a different picture. Much of the recent vitriol is as a result of polar politics, in time the country will return to centre ground politics. The Conservative this time round ran a good campaign, last time TM ran a rubbish one and nearly lost.
Labour need to sort out their split, (getting wider at the present time) and run a decent campaign.

The social media campaign was just to trivial. Saying vote Labour to keep the Torries out is really defeatist, but equally so is a fantasy agenda.

Next time round the election will be based on home politics rather than a hybrid referendum/election so we can expect a very different discussion.

My concern is the Scottish National party to be honest. I thought N Sturgeon's reaction to the defeat of a fellow leader (Jo Swinson) was a disgrace really.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/12/13/04/22187746-7787011-image-a-14_1576211908869.jpg



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
14 December, 2019 00:46
Quote:
shipwrecked
The Conservative this time round ran a good campaign, last time TM ran a rubbish one and nearly lost.

I can tell you honestly, as a former Conservative and campaigner, that the Conservative ground game is always inferior to Labour, except in a few areas. Certainly not in Bishop Auckland, Blyth Valley, Bolsover, West Brom East etc.


Quote:
shipwrecked
The social media campaign was just to trivial. Saying vote Labour to keep the Torries out is really defeatist, but equally so is a fantasy agenda.

The law of social media is that losing parties blame it time and time again, even though following Social media would suggest the opposite outcome.

Quote:
shipwrecked
Next time round the election will be based on home politics rather than a hybrid referendum/election so we can expect a very different discussion.

Mark my words. Patriotism was as, if not more, important than Brexit in this election. I guarantee Labour will 'learn' all the wrong lessons.

Voters don't want extremes of Liberalism; social conservatism is popular, very popular.



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
14 December, 2019 01:07
Labour clearly didn't run a better campaign this time round.

On social media, I can't comment.

That was my point but you came from it from a different direction, if social conservatism means left wing conservatism or right wing socialism I agree. Does it?



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

John Tee
John Tee
14 December, 2019 13:18
Quote:
gaz59
OK Leavers you have a clear decision. Make it happen and make it as you want
Easily enough people have voted for 'Get Brexit Done' I cannot argue with that

Just don't complain if a) it takes a blooky lot longer to deliver than your guru promised and b) it doesn't fully meet your expectations for your Brexit

I am coming to terms with the realisation that this is not a country I recognise nor feel entirely comfortable with but that is the reality and I will live with it and help my children to survive within it as best I can

But Johnson can no longer hide away in fridges when the going gets tough so he had better live up to his own hype

From a pure negotiating position, they should have said you can have 39bill but it is conditional on free trade.

There is also a nastiness in politics and i think Corbyns momentum lead the way. Further to that, there is a nastiness in society where there are many predatory crimes. That is a country i dont recognise.

I hope centralists get back control of the labour party but i think it will be some fight and i dont see anyone up to it.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
14 December, 2019 13:33
Comments like this from a Labour MP really don't help. "I could never be friends with a Tory, they are the enemy."

We disagree on this site sometimes but to bin someone just because someone holds a different view? Crazy! Also slightly hypocritical, isn't socialism about equality for all, unless you hold a different view of course.



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Chris1850
Chris1850
14 December, 2019 14:04
Quote:
John Tee
Quote:
gaz59
OK Leavers you have a clear decision. Make it happen and make it as you want
Easily enough people have voted for 'Get Brexit Done' I cannot argue with that

Just don't complain if a) it takes a blooky lot longer to deliver than your guru promised and b) it doesn't fully meet your expectations for your Brexit

I am coming to terms with the realisation that this is not a country I recognise nor feel entirely comfortable with but that is the reality and I will live with it and help my children to survive within it as best I can

But Johnson can no longer hide away in fridges when the going gets tough so he had better live up to his own hype

From a pure negotiating position, they should have said you can have 39bill but it is conditional on free trade.

There is also a nastiness in politics and i think Corbyns momentum lead the way. Further to that, there is a nastiness in society where there are many predatory crimes. That is a country i dont recognise.

I hope centralists get back control of the labour party but i think it will be some fight and i dont see anyone up to it.

Yes, and she was being strongly touted as the next leader of the party. Until Thursday night's results. Sums up how febrile modern politics has become. Good riddance to bad rubbish in her case.

DanWiley
DanWiley
14 December, 2019 16:25
"From a pure negotiating position, they should have said you can have 39bill but it is conditional on free trade."

Saying "Give us free trade or we'll shoot ourselves in the foot." Is not great negotiation.

DanWiley
DanWiley
14 December, 2019 19:03
Interesting

[www.independent.co.uk]

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
14 December, 2019 19:38
Quote:
DanWiley
Interesting
[www.independent.co.uk]

Article dated Friday 9 December 2016. Is that still an option?



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/12/2019 19:50 by shipwrecked.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
14 December, 2019 19:39
Quote:
DanWiley
Interesting
[www.independent.co.uk]

Very interesting, if true.

I would take it like a shot.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
14 December, 2019 21:47
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
DanWiley
Interesting
[www.independent.co.uk]

Very interesting, if true.

I would take it like a shot.

Thought you said you’re becoming a US citizen so surely it’s not relevant to you?

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
14 December, 2019 23:32
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
DanWiley
Interesting
[www.independent.co.uk]

Very interesting, if true.

I would take it like a shot.

Thought you said you’re becoming a US citizen so surely it’s not relevant to you?

Of course it is, the US permits dual citizenship. But I might have to choose between UK and EU citizenship.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
14 December, 2019 23:49
I say again, check the date of the article.



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

DanWiley
DanWiley
15 December, 2019 08:21
Didn't spot the date, still if is an option it does seem like a bit of a win all round.

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
15 December, 2019 09:28
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
DanWiley
Interesting
[www.independent.co.uk]

Article dated Friday 9 December 2016. Is that still an option?

No! Apparently associated citizenship has its difficulties and may need treaty change article here

Only option available is to get dual nationality but some countries do not allow that.



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
15 December, 2019 10:31
Good find CC, thanks.



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

DanWiley
DanWiley
15 December, 2019 14:49
"Only option available is to get dual nationality but some countries do not allow that."

Where does it say that? It's pretty vague about the difficulties.

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
15 December, 2019 20:54
Quote:
shipwrecked
That was my point but you came from it from a different direction, if social conservatism means left wing conservatism or right wing socialism I agree. Does it?

To me it does.

Time and time again, liberals are surprised that people vote for cultural/social reasons as much for economic ones. This Labour party managed to alienate on the former and overdid it on the latter.



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

DanWiley
DanWiley
15 December, 2019 21:22
"Time and time again, liberals are surprised that people vote for cultural/social reasons as much for economic ones. "

Are they? Liberals is a bit of a vague term, but "non-conservative" policies at this election seemed pretty cultural and social and not very economic.

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
16 December, 2019 09:02
Well I have had a great old time since 10.00 on the evening of Thursday.

Even the rugby match in Clermont was a fantastic experience and lived up to all I hoped it would be .

I personally believe that Centrist Boris has an opportunity to make a real difference to our entire nation.

I am looking forward to the next ten years very optimistically!!

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
16 December, 2019 09:14
So BSJ Portugal not going to be blessed with your residency? winking smiley



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
17 December, 2019 04:39
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
Well I have had a great old time since 10.00 on the evening of Thursday.
Even the rugby match in Clermont was a fantastic experience and lived up to all I hoped it would be .

I personally believe that Centrist Boris has an opportunity to make a real difference to our entire nation.

I am looking forward to the next ten years very optimistically!!

I have also been on cloud 9 since that emphatic victory. It was a huge relief considering the alternative & there is real hope for the future. I find the embittered & sour attitude of Kinnock junior completely out of proportion & frankly insulting to the millions who voted Conservative. He is virtually saying that all are thick & have sleepwalked through the past 9 years. So patronising. He & many other labour moderates who now say they respected the EU referendum result refused to back the best option, Mrs May’s deal, again & again, saying they wanted some hybrid arrangement whereby we were more in than out. They only have themselves to blame, no-one else.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/12/2019 04:46 by Bath Hammer.

John Tee
John Tee
17 December, 2019 12:07
I think a lot of voters will be happy that remain mps in leave constituencies have gone...and those constituencies reallh did not a choice.
Regardless of tradition etc...they voted again to pick the candidate who said theyd do what they wanted.

I also think some remain voters voted for their definition of democracy

In the interest of closure, they have it, and the country can move on.

jameswood14
Woodpecker
17 December, 2019 14:11
I was hoping that the rotund to$$er would stop his silly schoolboy posturing with the EU now he has a big majority. Apparently not..

John Tee
John Tee
17 December, 2019 14:16
hmmm... i think the e.u will regard the u.k as a competitor on their doorstep and play hardball if they can.

jameswood14
Woodpecker
17 December, 2019 14:31
Quote:
John Tee
hmmm... i think the e.u will regard the u.k as a competitor on their doorstep and play hardball if they can.

Yes they will, quietly, when the time comes.

Look on the bright side, I just changed $ into GBP which BJ made a bit cheaper

John Tee
John Tee
17 December, 2019 14:35
So i don't expect Johnsons team to roll over.

By putting no deal back on the table, that should concentrate a few minds.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
17 December, 2019 14:38
Quote:
Woodpecker
Quote:
John Tee
hmmm... i think the e.u will regard the u.k as a competitor on their doorstep and play hardball if they can.

Yes they will, quietly, when the time comes.

Look on the bright side, I just changed $ into GBP which BJ made a bit cheaper

£ to € rate is pretty good at the moment!



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
hemington
17 December, 2019 16:38
Quote:
John Tee
So i don't expect Johnsons team to roll over.
By putting no deal back on the table, that should concentrate a few minds.

Why - it didn't in the past - well not in the EU anyway.

jameswood14
Woodpecker
17 December, 2019 17:41
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
Woodpecker
Quote:
John Tee
hmmm... i think the e.u will regard the u.k as a competitor on their doorstep and play hardball if they can.

Yes they will, quietly, when the time comes.

Look on the bright side, I just changed $ into GBP which BJ made a bit cheaper

£ to € rate is pretty good at the moment!

I've got a buy order at 1.20 which has been there for a while - it was creeping towards it until Bojo said what he did, never mind.

Chris1850
Chris1850
17 December, 2019 19:04
Quote:
hemington
Quote:
John Tee
So i don't expect Johnsons team to roll over.
By putting no deal back on the table, that should concentrate a few minds.

Why - it didn't in the past - well not in the EU anyway.

Because the EU knew that No Deal would never get through Parliament. Now they cant be sure

John Tee
John Tee
17 December, 2019 19:36
Quote:
hemington
Quote:
John Tee
So i don't expect Johnsons team to roll over.
By putting no deal back on the table, that should concentrate a few minds.

Why - it didn't in the past - well not in the EU anyway.

It was, or always could be, neutered by the Commons. No chance of it now.

DanWiley
DanWiley
17 December, 2019 19:51
I think no deal is less likely to happen now, and the EU will know that. Boris isn't subject to the whim of the extreme of his party.

Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
17 December, 2019 20:22
[markets.ft.com] I see the 'entrepreneurs' have taken their share of yesterday's euphoria!

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
17 December, 2019 20:42
Quote:
DanWiley
I think no deal is less likely to happen now, and the EU will know that. Boris isn't subject to the whim of the extreme of his party.

The money markets are taking a different view.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
17 December, 2019 22:13
Taking a wider view, you have to wonder what the EU will look like when we have left and the 27 become 26? It seems it could even be that the 26 become 25 with a forced Polexit as a result of non alignment of the Polish courts with EU Supreme court.



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
17 December, 2019 22:38
Mr CC

Ironically, for very different reasons I might be off to Portugal sooner than I thought(Sm14) but we will have to see.

Seriously I am very positive that Centrist Boris, assisted by "The People" Cummings will do all that I want for our public services, our carbon/climate initiatives, our infrastructure, our housing, our productivity growth, our investment in new technology etc, etc.

I am sure that a number of posters on 'ere will be on here posting congratulations when he makes progress .

Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
18 December, 2019 14:58
Quote:
Mike the Taxi
https://markets.ft.com/data/currencies/tearsheet/summary?s=GBPEUR I see the 'entrepreneurs' have taken their share of yesterday's euphoria!

And now the £/$ rate is back to where it was on 12th - someone's made a buck or two.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
18 December, 2019 15:20
Just thinking about my post above about Poland being thrown out of the EU. If they do under what basis will they trade with the EU?

It may be that the EU will need a trade model for ex members.



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
18 December, 2019 18:57
I think that Greece should logically be the one to leave or perhaps posture to leave in order to get further debt forgiveness or restructuring..........

The last thing that French and German banks need is a Greek debt default!

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
19 December, 2019 08:33
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
I think that Greece should logically be the one to leave or perhaps posture to leave in order to get further debt forgiveness or restructuring..........
The last thing that French and German banks need is a Greek debt default!

That may be true and they might need to be added to the list, however, I was referring to the fact that the EU might ask Poland to leave the EU because they are not complying with the European Supreme court conditions. Wouldn't tree countries necessitate a separate trade stance for those countries and how would border checks be applied?
Poland has borders with three EU countries.



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

John Tee
John Tee
19 December, 2019 11:18
those countries would have to install a border on behalf of the E.U.

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
19 December, 2019 12:59
Quote:
John Tee
those countries would have to install a border on behalf of the E.U.

Poland has only been in Schengen for 12 years. Before then there were borders.

As it is, there is no mechanism within the EU to eject a nation. It can suspend voting rights and participation in certain schemes but it would have to amend the treaties to add an ejection article.

Unless Poland elects to leave they're here to stay, whatever the Polish supreme court would have us believe...



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

gaz59
gaz59
19 December, 2019 13:35
Quote:
Mike the Taxi
Quote:
Mike the Taxi
https://markets.ft.com/data/currencies/tearsheet/summary?s=GBPEUR I see the 'entrepreneurs' have taken their share of yesterday's euphoria!

And now the £/$ rate is back to where it was on 12th - someone's made a buck or two.

A few making big, big money through gambling with our economy and many peoples' lives

Doesn't feel right for a modern, responsible caring society

John Tee
John Tee
19 December, 2019 14:04
Quote:
The Bear
Quote:
John Tee
those countries would have to install a border on behalf of the E.U.

Poland has only been in Schengen for 12 years. Before then there were borders.

As it is, there is no mechanism within the EU to eject a nation. It can suspend voting rights and participation in certain schemes but it would have to amend the treaties to add an ejection article.

Unless Poland elects to leave they're here to stay, whatever the Polish supreme court would have us believe...

If the E.u or Poland concocted a 'leave' ....which i dont think they would in a fit, the EU would have to put up a border to protect the single market. It would also depend how willing the Poles would be to be pushed around or told what to do..of course.

But, never going to happen..

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
19 December, 2019 14:15
Quote:
gaz59
Quote:
Mike the Taxi
Quote:
Mike the Taxi
https://markets.ft.com/data/currencies/tearsheet/summary?s=GBPEUR I see the 'entrepreneurs' have taken their share of yesterday's euphoria!

And now the £/$ rate is back to where it was on 12th - someone's made a buck or two.

A few making big, big money through gambling with our economy and many peoples' lives

Doesn't feel right for a modern, responsible caring society

It's how the markets work, always has done always will do. Traders have 1 objective and that is to make money, if they don't they'll be out of work pretty quickly.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
19 December, 2019 14:18
Quote:
The Bear
Quote:
John Tee
those countries would have to install a border on behalf of the E.U.

Poland has only been in Schengen for 12 years. Before then there were borders.

As it is, there is no mechanism within the EU to eject a nation. It can suspend voting rights and participation in certain schemes but it would have to amend the treaties to add an ejection article.

Unless Poland elects to leave they're here to stay, whatever the Polish supreme court would have us believe...

If you read the article its not about Poland electing to leave at all!

Its about the EU kicking them out because the government are not aligning with the EU's legal system.

I just wondered how, if that happened trade would occur with the EU and how it might relate to the UK position.



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

John Tee
John Tee
19 December, 2019 14:37
yep..and its not going to happen.
It doesnt matter who instigates it ...
if there is a border outside the customs union, the eu will have put up a hard border.
more likely what would happen is Poland will have to remain in the customs union...because, for 1, they do not have the tools to extradite themselves as we have. imo
That is the purpose of treaties and ever deepening union...

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
19 December, 2019 17:11
Quote:
shipwrecked
If you read the article its not about Poland electing to leave at all!

Its about the EU kicking them out because the government are not aligning with the EU's legal system.

To be fair, that's not what Malgorzata Gersdorf said:
"...and [will lead to] the need to leave the European Union.”

Even if it was, you can read every article. There is no way to eject an EU member. You would have to change the law via treaty. That would require unanimous consent (including Visegrad 4). It ain't gonna happen...



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
19 December, 2019 19:40
Will Johnson be trying for a trade deal with Wakanda? [www.bbc.co.uk]

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
19 December, 2019 19:53
Its oven ready Mike, I understand we are doing a deal with Donald for all the low-flow toilets he will be getting rid of in his latest bizaire rant!

https://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Trump-Low-Flow-Toilet-by-Daryl-Cagle-CagleCartoons.com-1-1.jpg?w=810



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
20 December, 2019 14:41
BoJo wins withdrawal agreement Debate by 124.



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/12/2019 14:48 by CoochieCoo.

gaz59
gaz59
20 December, 2019 22:13
He won the vote CC. There was no debate and his parliamentary tactics are geared to legislate against any further debate, scrutiny and challenge

We shall see if his oven ready deal really is fit for purpose when it is tested by reality of operation and not by an automatic majority in the HoC

Until then keep the brand Boris on the road

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
21 December, 2019 08:35
He has a working majority of 80, Gaz. So 44 oppos voted with him or abstained that is the interesting stat!



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
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gaz59
gaz59
21 December, 2019 08:50
Quote:
CoochieCoo
He has a working majority of 80, Gaz. So 44 oppos voted with him or abstained that is the interesting stat!

Duh, even with my grade 5 o level maths I can work that sum out but there was no debate and it is obvious Johnson is going to use his majority to ensure there will be no further debate or vote on the issue

Fine. He stands or falls on the impact of his deal

I believe it will be an economic and cultural disaster for most in this country. Others disagree and the general election has set us on an unshakable path so I'm happy for the opposition to let him get on with it and hold him to account for everything he has promised

John Tee
John Tee
21 December, 2019 09:15
sure, but that is all they can do.
Maybe if they calculated how it could end they may not have been so obstructing before the election created a complete new environment.

They both played their hand and now have to live with it.
I think it is now in everyones interest to back negotiations with the E.U and be under no illusion that they will screw as much as they can...so we have to be just as hard nosed back.

JFPC
JFPC
21 December, 2019 09:21
Quote:
gaz59
Quote:
CoochieCoo
He has a working majority of 80, Gaz. So 44 oppos voted with him or abstained that is the interesting stat!

Duh, even with my grade 5 o level maths I can work that sum out but there was no debate and it is obvious Johnson is going to use his majority to ensure there will be no further debate or vote on the issue

Fine. He stands or falls on the impact of his deal

I believe it will be an economic and cultural disaster for most in this country. Others disagree and the general election has set us on an unshakable path so I'm happy for the opposition to let him get on with it and hold him to account for everything he has promised

I've already built the stables for my share of the promised unicorns!

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
21 December, 2019 09:59
Boris - 'The Oven is On'

Let's hope the deal doesn't turn out to be a burnt turkey.

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
21 December, 2019 10:13
It takes two sides to debate, Gaz, it is the opps duty to debate and if they don’t that is a dereliction of their duty. The problem is the opposition is in disarray and realise they have shot themselves in the foot by their blocking tactics of the last parliament,



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
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Chris1850
Chris1850
21 December, 2019 10:19
Quote:
gaz59
Quote:
CoochieCoo
He has a working majority of 80, Gaz. So 44 oppos voted with him or abstained that is the interesting stat!

Duh, even with my grade 5 o level maths I can work that sum out but there was no debate and it is obvious Johnson is going to use his majority to ensure there will be no further debate or vote on the issue

Fine. He stands or falls on the impact of his deal

I believe it will be an economic and cultural disaster for most in this country. Others disagree and the general election has set us on an unshakable path so I'm happy for the opposition to let him get on with it and hold him to account for everything he has promised

There has been 3 years of debate!

Finally, we are in a position to make progress on Brexit. It may not be the the course some people wanted but it is now incumbent on everyone to accept the democratic position and to move onto debating the terms of a future trade deal and relationship with the EU



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 21/12/2019 10:23 by Chris1850.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
21 December, 2019 10:50
I find there is an increasing trend by some to resist the will of the electorate, first it was by arguing about whether we knew what we were voting for which I found a bit insulting, then legal challenges, Bercow meddling and alliances. I find it significant that the alliances are now disbanded and the rebels were simply rejected by by the electorate.
The current attitude seems to be a aspiration for the PM to fail as proof the opposition were right all along. What is the point of that?

Surely democracy is about establishing a majority then abiding by it, the size of the majority should actually be irrelevant. Why can’t people just accept the will of the people and move on, all the bitterness and recrimination seems so negative.



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

gaz59
gaz59
21 December, 2019 12:29
"There has been 3 years of debate!"

Not on Johnson's deal there hasn't been nor will there be a vote on this deal or any trade deal whether or not we get one

That's Johnson's democracy for you

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
21 December, 2019 12:38
The vote on the 12th Dec gave the current government a mandate to go ahead, much of the election was focused on Brexit.



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

JFPC
JFPC
21 December, 2019 14:00
Quote:
shipwrecked
The vote on the 12th Dec gave the current government a mandate to go ahead, much of the election was focused on Brexit.

The remain/second referendum backing parties received about 55% of the votes cast and the brexit backing parties have over 56% of mps elected. The current government have the mps to go ahead with brexit certainly but the mandate would fail any impartial test of democracy. I am aware that this is the system we have, hence my use of 'impartial'.



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
21 December, 2019 14:56
Quote:
JFPC
Quote:
shipwrecked
The vote on the 12th Dec gave the current government a mandate to go ahead, much of the election was focused on Brexit.

The remain/second referendum backing parties received about 55% of the votes cast and the brexit backing parties have over 56% of mps elected. The current government have the mps to go ahead with brexit certainly but the mandate would fail any impartial test of democracy. I am aware that this is the system we have, hence my use of 'impartial'.

Yes. those figures have been stated before but the point is that it wasn't a one topic referendum, it was a general election with lots of other issues. Remain isn't the same as second referendum. Scottish voters would even say it was not about Brexit but their Independence vote if you believe Nicola Sturgeon.

There seems to be lot of complaining and moaning going on and on. In sport you fight as hard as you can on the field then shake hands win or lose then work out how to win next time.
Its not identical but its the same attitude to my mind.



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

JFPC
JFPC
21 December, 2019 17:52
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
JFPC
Quote:
shipwrecked
The vote on the 12th Dec gave the current government a mandate to go ahead, much of the election was focused on Brexit.

The remain/second referendum backing parties received about 55% of the votes cast and the brexit backing parties have over 56% of mps elected. The current government have the mps to go ahead with brexit certainly but the mandate would fail any impartial test of democracy. I am aware that this is the system we have, hence my use of 'impartial'.

Yes. those figures have been stated before but the point is that it wasn't a one topic referendum, it was a general election with lots of other issues. Remain isn't the same as second referendum. Scottish voters would even say it was not about Brexit but their Independence vote if you believe Nicola Sturgeon.

There seems to be lot of complaining and moaning going on and on. In sport you fight as hard as you can on the field then shake hands win or lose then work out how to win next time.
Its not identical but its the same attitude to my mind.

If it wasn't a one topic election, where are they claiming their mandate from? (Again, I am aware that they have a majority in the Hoc but arguing from an impartial observer point of view as they only got 43.6% of the vote)
To use your sporting metaphor one side scored more points but the other side won!



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
21 December, 2019 17:59
I don't agree but its not worth arguing about, it really is time to move on!



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

JFPC
JFPC
21 December, 2019 18:42
Quote:
shipwrecked
I don't agree but its not worth arguing about, it really is time to move on to stage two of brexit!
FTFY! 😋


Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

John Tee
John Tee
21 December, 2019 19:03
oh dear oh dear... the argument has been contested and won within the terms of votes and elections. That is the accepted way we do things.
Everything else is finished and lame. inv

If people dont accept that then they arent Democrats. .it is that simple .

JFPC
JFPC
21 December, 2019 19:32
Quote:
John Tee
oh dear oh dear... the argument has been contested and won within the terms of votes and elections. That is the accepted way we do things.
Everything else is finished and lame. inv

If people dont accept that then they arent Democrats. .it is that simple .

If you read what I said, you'll see that I fully accept that the tories have the mps to get the first stage of brexit done and done quickly if they choose to. That is not in dispute as far as I'm concerned.
What I am saying is that our system is undemocratic from an impartial point of view (please consider what impartial means before replying). I know it's the system we've got and I know that under our system the tories won a large majoriry, none of that changes the fact that impartially viewed it ain't a very democratic system!



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
21 December, 2019 19:56
Quote:
JFPC
Quote:
John Tee
oh dear oh dear... the argument has been contested and won within the terms of votes and elections. That is the accepted way we do things.
Everything else is finished and lame. inv

If people dont accept that then they arent Democrats. .it is that simple .

If you read what I said, you'll see that I fully accept that the tories have the mps to get the first stage of brexit done and done quickly if they choose to. That is not in dispute as far as I'm concerned.
What I am saying is that our system is undemocratic from an impartial point of view (please consider what impartial means before replying). I know it's the system we've got and I know that under our system the tories won a large majoriry, none of that changes the fact that impartially viewed it ain't a very democratic system!

The referendum to change the system was lost by 68:32 in 2011 so our current system has democratic approval!



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
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gaz59
gaz59
21 December, 2019 21:30
Johnson now holds all the top cards on Brexit and other big issues

He has to play them wisely or he will go down

The opposition, Labour and Lib Dems will regroup and will be a lot more effective

If Johnson does what he says he believes he can do then he will have a straight run at a second term. Why would a majority vote for change if things are going well

If he screws up and it won't be an easy ride then that is Labour's opportunity provided a) they have a credible leader and b) they streamline their policy offer to only things that will have obvious and positive impact on everyday life

Oh and c) they come up with a far better strapline than time for real change

It is no more complicated than that

John Tee
John Tee
22 December, 2019 16:58
Agree. Johnson has all his cards in place...so brexit and nhs and law and order need to be a 'success' in the eyes of the electorate.

No excuses or he is doomed...and that would be deserved..

ChippenhamRoman
ChippenhamRoman
24 December, 2019 12:14
Quote:
CoochieCoo
Quote:
JFPC
Quote:
John Tee
oh dear oh dear... the argument has been contested and won within the terms of votes and elections. That is the accepted way we do things.
Everything else is finished and lame. inv

If people dont accept that then they arent Democrats. .it is that simple .

If you read what I said, you'll see that I fully accept that the tories have the mps to get the first stage of brexit done and done quickly if they choose to. That is not in dispute as far as I'm concerned.
What I am saying is that our system is undemocratic from an impartial point of view (please consider what impartial means before replying). I know it's the system we've got and I know that under our system the tories won a large majoriry, none of that changes the fact that impartially viewed it ain't a very democratic system!

The referendum to change the system was lost by 68:32 in 2011 so our current system has democratic approval!

AV was a fudge. Go pure PR or Additional member system like that do in the Scottish Parliament.

Then you get a representation of the people.

It will mean loons like the Brexit Party and the likes will get seats, but it is much fairer than we have now.

J



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24/12/2019 12:15 by ChippenhamRoman.

Man From Wick
Man From Wick
24 December, 2019 16:31
Quote:
John Tee
oh dear oh dear... the argument has been contested and won within the terms of votes and elections. That is the accepted way we do things.
Everything else is finished and lame. inv

If people dont accept that then they arent Democrats. .it is that simple .

Farage and Bill Cash etc never accepted the 1975 referendum result to stay in Europe and campaigned ever since to overturn the 'will of the people'.

So maybe your last line has a ring of truth about it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24/12/2019 16:32 by Man From Wick.

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
24 December, 2019 19:48
The ReJoin campaign can begin in earnest, like the Leave campaign did all the years ago.

But it is time, for the sake of every one, to move on and end the 'ignore the referendum result' campaign.

But mainly, it is time to end (from people who pride themselves on their intelligence) the 'majority are racist idiots' campaign.

It's Christmas. Time to enjoy what we've got and make the best of whatever hand we're dealt, along with everyone else - however they voted...



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
24 December, 2019 20:11
Deleted because it’s Christmas.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24/12/2019 20:12 by BathMatt53.

gaz59
gaz59
26 December, 2019 20:56
Democracy is like history, it is the winners that get to define it

2019 General Election 12th December: Zac Goldsmith overwhelmingly voted out of parliament for the second time in three years and by a majority of over seven thousand.

13th December made life peer and retains place in Johnson's cabinet

How can that be described as being democratic?

A peoples' government? Yep, so long as it is the right people .... through the eyes of Johnson and Cummings

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