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Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Joe
Labour have been asked to join the coalition but they also know that if they agree to PR they will never enjoy a majority government again.
Quote:BBandWQuote:John Tee
They are all at it... Lib dems, Greens, Brexity party, Tories.
I dont see the difference
I'll think you'll find that only Farage has withdrawn 50% of his candidates only days after saying they were all standing. Seems rather a large difference to me.
How long before the other 50% are withdrawn before they are under orders at the starting gate ?
Quote:Mike the Taxi
In the eventuality of a Tory majority, what's to stop them repealing the 'No Hard Brexit' Act, and going for 'Hard Brexit'?
Quote:ChippenhamRoman
And the Tory Party’s transformation is complete.
Why fight them or convince them of Hard No Deal Brexit when you can simply take them over and get your ideas implemented?
The very thing that “Call me Dave” was afraid off has happened. The Conservative and Unionist Party is now UKIP/BREXIT.
No broad church here.
J
Quote:The BearQuote:ChippenhamRoman
And the Tory Party’s transformation is complete.
Why fight them or convince them of Hard No Deal Brexit when you can simply take them over and get your ideas implemented?
The very thing that “Call me Dave” was afraid off has happened. The Conservative and Unionist Party is now UKIP/BREXIT.
No broad church here.
J
Written by someone displaying no knowledge of the history of the Conservative party... It's membership has always been overwhelmingly Eurosceptic.
Quote:The BearQuote:ChippenhamRoman
And the Tory Party’s transformation is complete.
Why fight them or convince them of Hard No Deal Brexit when you can simply take them over and get your ideas implemented?
The very thing that “Call me Dave” was afraid off has happened. The Conservative and Unionist Party is now UKIP/BREXIT.
No broad church here.
J
Written by someone displaying no knowledge of the history of the Conservative party... It's membership has always been overwhelmingly Eurosceptic and only it's arcane processes and preferences for selecting 'mates', for want of a better term, kept a pro-European hold on the party.
(It's also true of the parties liberal policies but they are under no threat regardless of the media chatter).
They are also not standing on a platform of No Deal btw, they actually have a deal. One negotiated with the EU...
Labour, on the other hand... Members signed up at short notice with a coordinated movement to elect a strongly Socialist leader with a number of undesirable views. The only reason it continues to have some moderate members is because they are to afraid to resign and lose their jobs or they would overlook the unsavoury elements because they want to stop Brexit (a slippery slope). Both are cowards.
Quote:gaz59
I think you will find Mr Bear that your mate Johnson also holds a number of undesirable views and it is not as if the election of our PM was a triumph of democracy
Quote:The BearQuote:gaz59
I think you will find Mr Bear that your mate Johnson also holds a number of undesirable views and it is not as if the election of our PM was a triumph of democracy
They're world's apart... Stop deluding yourself.
That's what scares me about a vote for Labour. The ends justify the means. We'll throw one ethnic group under the bus because we get most of what we want...
This is the kind of thing liberal democracy was supposed to protect. Instead those same people would rather see Brexit stopped (and a majority vote honoured) rather than protect a minority ethnic group. Their priorities are a mess!
Quote:JFPC
I take it Muslims aren't the minority group you are refering to?
Quote:The BearQuote:gaz59
I think you will find Mr Bear that your mate Johnson also holds a number of undesirable views and it is not as if the election of our PM
was a triumph of democracy
They're world's apart... Stop deluding yourself.
That's what scares me about a vote for Labour. The ends justify the means. We'll throw one ethnic group under the bus because we get most of what we want...
This is the kind of thing liberal democracy was supposed to protect. Instead those same people would rather see Brexit stopped (and a majority vote honoured) rather than protect a minority ethnic group. Their priorities are a mess!
Quote:The BearQuote:JFPC
I take it Muslims aren't the minority group you are refering to?
See... The ends justify the means.
Come back to me when the Equality and Human Rights Commission begin an investigation into the Tories, rather than engage in party political deflection.
Quote:BBandW
The majority of the electorate voted for revoke/second referendum parties rather than leave.
Quote:Chris1850Quote:BBandW
The majority of the electorate voted for revoke/second referendum parties rather than leave.
You sound like a Tigers supporter! The result didn't go our way so I am going to blame the referee!
Quote:shipwrecked
The Conservative this time round ran a good campaign, last time TM ran a rubbish one and nearly lost.
Quote:shipwrecked
The social media campaign was just to trivial. Saying vote Labour to keep the Torries out is really defeatist, but equally so is a fantasy agenda.
Quote:shipwrecked
Next time round the election will be based on home politics rather than a hybrid referendum/election so we can expect a very different discussion.
Quote:gaz59
OK Leavers you have a clear decision. Make it happen and make it as you want
Easily enough people have voted for 'Get Brexit Done' I cannot argue with that
Just don't complain if a) it takes a blooky lot longer to deliver than your guru promised and b) it doesn't fully meet your expectations for your Brexit
I am coming to terms with the realisation that this is not a country I recognise nor feel entirely comfortable with but that is the reality and I will live with it and help my children to survive within it as best I can
But Johnson can no longer hide away in fridges when the going gets tough so he had better live up to his own hype
Quote:John TeeQuote:gaz59
OK Leavers you have a clear decision. Make it happen and make it as you want
Easily enough people have voted for 'Get Brexit Done' I cannot argue with that
Just don't complain if a) it takes a blooky lot longer to deliver than your guru promised and b) it doesn't fully meet your expectations for your Brexit
I am coming to terms with the realisation that this is not a country I recognise nor feel entirely comfortable with but that is the reality and I will live with it and help my children to survive within it as best I can
But Johnson can no longer hide away in fridges when the going gets tough so he had better live up to his own hype
From a pure negotiating position, they should have said you can have 39bill but it is conditional on free trade.
There is also a nastiness in politics and i think Corbyns momentum lead the way. Further to that, there is a nastiness in society where there are many predatory crimes. That is a country i dont recognise.
I hope centralists get back control of the labour party but i think it will be some fight and i dont see anyone up to it.
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Quote:joethefanaticQuote:
Very interesting, if true.
I would take it like a shot.
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:joethefanaticQuote:
Very interesting, if true.
I would take it like a shot.
Thought you said you’re becoming a US citizen so surely it’s not relevant to you?
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:
Article dated Friday 9 December 2016. Is that still an option?
Quote:shipwrecked
That was my point but you came from it from a different direction, if social conservatism means left wing conservatism or right wing socialism I agree. Does it?
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Well I have had a great old time since 10.00 on the evening of Thursday.
Even the rugby match in Clermont was a fantastic experience and lived up to all I hoped it would be .
I personally believe that Centrist Boris has an opportunity to make a real difference to our entire nation.
I am looking forward to the next ten years very optimistically!!
Quote:John Tee
hmmm... i think the e.u will regard the u.k as a competitor on their doorstep and play hardball if they can.
Quote:WoodpeckerQuote:John Tee
hmmm... i think the e.u will regard the u.k as a competitor on their doorstep and play hardball if they can.
Yes they will, quietly, when the time comes.
Look on the bright side, I just changed $ into GBP which BJ made a bit cheaper
Quote:John Tee
So i don't expect Johnsons team to roll over.
By putting no deal back on the table, that should concentrate a few minds.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:WoodpeckerQuote:John Tee
hmmm... i think the e.u will regard the u.k as a competitor on their doorstep and play hardball if they can.
Yes they will, quietly, when the time comes.
Look on the bright side, I just changed $ into GBP which BJ made a bit cheaper
Ł to € rate is pretty good at the moment!
Quote:hemingtonQuote:John Tee
So i don't expect Johnsons team to roll over.
By putting no deal back on the table, that should concentrate a few minds.
Why - it didn't in the past - well not in the EU anyway.
Quote:hemingtonQuote:John Tee
So i don't expect Johnsons team to roll over.
By putting no deal back on the table, that should concentrate a few minds.
Why - it didn't in the past - well not in the EU anyway.
Quote:DanWiley
I think no deal is less likely to happen now, and the EU will know that. Boris isn't subject to the whim of the extreme of his party.
Quote:Mike the Taxi
https://markets.ft.com/data/currencies/tearsheet/summary?s=GBPEUR I see the 'entrepreneurs' have taken their share of yesterday's euphoria!
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
I think that Greece should logically be the one to leave or perhaps posture to leave in order to get further debt forgiveness or restructuring..........
The last thing that French and German banks need is a Greek debt default!
Quote:John Tee
those countries would have to install a border on behalf of the E.U.
Quote:Mike the TaxiQuote:Mike the Taxi
https://markets.ft.com/data/currencies/tearsheet/summary?s=GBPEUR I see the 'entrepreneurs' have taken their share of yesterday's euphoria!
And now the Ł/$ rate is back to where it was on 12th - someone's made a buck or two.
Quote:The BearQuote:John Tee
those countries would have to install a border on behalf of the E.U.
Poland has only been in Schengen for 12 years. Before then there were borders.
As it is, there is no mechanism within the EU to eject a nation. It can suspend voting rights and participation in certain schemes but it would have to amend the treaties to add an ejection article.
Unless Poland elects to leave they're here to stay, whatever the Polish supreme court would have us believe...
Quote:gaz59Quote:Mike the TaxiQuote:Mike the Taxi
https://markets.ft.com/data/currencies/tearsheet/summary?s=GBPEUR I see the 'entrepreneurs' have taken their share of yesterday's euphoria!
And now the Ł/$ rate is back to where it was on 12th - someone's made a buck or two.
A few making big, big money through gambling with our economy and many peoples' lives
Doesn't feel right for a modern, responsible caring society
Quote:The BearQuote:John Tee
those countries would have to install a border on behalf of the E.U.
Poland has only been in Schengen for 12 years. Before then there were borders.
As it is, there is no mechanism within the EU to eject a nation. It can suspend voting rights and participation in certain schemes but it would have to amend the treaties to add an ejection article.
Unless Poland elects to leave they're here to stay, whatever the Polish supreme court would have us believe...
Quote:shipwrecked
If you read the article its not about Poland electing to leave at all!
Its about the EU kicking them out because the government are not aligning with the EU's legal system.
Quote:CoochieCoo
He has a working majority of 80, Gaz. So 44 oppos voted with him or abstained that is the interesting stat!
Quote:gaz59Quote:CoochieCoo
He has a working majority of 80, Gaz. So 44 oppos voted with him or abstained that is the interesting stat!
Duh, even with my grade 5 o level maths I can work that sum out but there was no debate and it is obvious Johnson is going to use his majority to ensure there will be no further debate or vote on the issue
Fine. He stands or falls on the impact of his deal
I believe it will be an economic and cultural disaster for most in this country. Others disagree and the general election has set us on an unshakable path so I'm happy for the opposition to let him get on with it and hold him to account for everything he has promised
Quote:gaz59Quote:CoochieCoo
He has a working majority of 80, Gaz. So 44 oppos voted with him or abstained that is the interesting stat!
Duh, even with my grade 5 o level maths I can work that sum out but there was no debate and it is obvious Johnson is going to use his majority to ensure there will be no further debate or vote on the issue
Fine. He stands or falls on the impact of his deal
I believe it will be an economic and cultural disaster for most in this country. Others disagree and the general election has set us on an unshakable path so I'm happy for the opposition to let him get on with it and hold him to account for everything he has promised
Quote:shipwrecked
The vote on the 12th Dec gave the current government a mandate to go ahead, much of the election was focused on Brexit.
Quote:JFPCQuote:shipwrecked
The vote on the 12th Dec gave the current government a mandate to go ahead, much of the election was focused on Brexit.
The remain/second referendum backing parties received about 55% of the votes cast and the brexit backing parties have over 56% of mps elected. The current government have the mps to go ahead with brexit certainly but the mandate would fail any impartial test of democracy. I am aware that this is the system we have, hence my use of 'impartial'.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:JFPCQuote:shipwrecked
The vote on the 12th Dec gave the current government a mandate to go ahead, much of the election was focused on Brexit.
The remain/second referendum backing parties received about 55% of the votes cast and the brexit backing parties have over 56% of mps elected. The current government have the mps to go ahead with brexit certainly but the mandate would fail any impartial test of democracy. I am aware that this is the system we have, hence my use of 'impartial'.
Yes. those figures have been stated before but the point is that it wasn't a one topic referendum, it was a general election with lots of other issues. Remain isn't the same as second referendum. Scottish voters would even say it was not about Brexit but their Independence vote if you believe Nicola Sturgeon.
There seems to be lot of complaining and moaning going on and on. In sport you fight as hard as you can on the field then shake hands win or lose then work out how to win next time.
Its not identical but its the same attitude to my mind.
Quote:FTFY! 😋shipwrecked
I don't agree but its not worth arguing about, it really is time to move on to stage two of brexit!
Quote:John Tee
oh dear oh dear... the argument has been contested and won within the terms of votes and elections. That is the accepted way we do things.
Everything else is finished and lame. inv
If people dont accept that then they arent Democrats. .it is that simple .
Quote:JFPCQuote:John Tee
oh dear oh dear... the argument has been contested and won within the terms of votes and elections. That is the accepted way we do things.
Everything else is finished and lame. inv
If people dont accept that then they arent Democrats. .it is that simple .
If you read what I said, you'll see that I fully accept that the tories have the mps to get the first stage of brexit done and done quickly if they choose to. That is not in dispute as far as I'm concerned.
What I am saying is that our system is undemocratic from an impartial point of view (please consider what impartial means before replying). I know it's the system we've got and I know that under our system the tories won a large majoriry, none of that changes the fact that impartially viewed it ain't a very democratic system!
Quote:CoochieCooQuote:JFPCQuote:John Tee
oh dear oh dear... the argument has been contested and won within the terms of votes and elections. That is the accepted way we do things.
Everything else is finished and lame. inv
If people dont accept that then they arent Democrats. .it is that simple .
If you read what I said, you'll see that I fully accept that the tories have the mps to get the first stage of brexit done and done quickly if they choose to. That is not in dispute as far as I'm concerned.
What I am saying is that our system is undemocratic from an impartial point of view (please consider what impartial means before replying). I know it's the system we've got and I know that under our system the tories won a large majoriry, none of that changes the fact that impartially viewed it ain't a very democratic system!
The referendum to change the system was lost by 68:32 in 2011 so our current system has democratic approval!
Quote:John Tee
oh dear oh dear... the argument has been contested and won within the terms of votes and elections. That is the accepted way we do things.
Everything else is finished and lame. inv
If people dont accept that then they arent Democrats. .it is that simple .