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Quote:KingoftheHill
Has that bill been published? Can't recall seeing it
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Imagine if the Conservatives could get Brexit and UKIP on side!
I guess that would be the biggest share of the vote for a very, very long time
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Imagine if the Conservatives could get Brexit and UKIP on side!
I guess that would be the biggest share of the vote for a very, very long time
Take a step to the right, then another, then right a bit more...it’s not a nice thought tbh.
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Imagine if the Conservatives could get Brexit and UKIP on side!
I guess that would be the biggest share of the vote for a very, very long time
Take a step to the right, then another, then right a bit more...it’s not a nice thought tbh.
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Also I think the view that the Brexit party is a right wing group is misplaced. I think the Brexit Party is supported by people across the political spectrum who want Brexit to happen
Quote:JFPC
The brexit party is very right wing, some of its supporters might overlook the policies as brexit is more important to them, but that doesn’t change the policies!
Quote:The BearQuote:JFPC
The brexit party is very right wing, some of its supporters might overlook the policies as brexit is more important to them, but that doesn’t change the policies!
It's easy to make comments such as this but which of their policies do you regard as right wing? And don't just say 'hard Brexit'.
As far as I can tell, the Brexit party has no discernible, meaningful policies.
In polling and focus groups, it's voters typically fall on the socially Conservative, economically liberal side of the spectrum (simplistically, ex-Labour voters left behind by liberalism). Yet it's financial backers and leader are far more socially liberal in outlook and economically Conservative. Like our parliament, it's a dead party, only being kept alive by Brexit.
Quote:JFPC
As they refuse to publish a manifesto, I can't point to any specific policies. However listening to some of the main player's speeches, hearing them on the radio, reading their tweets etc, they want to: fully privitise the NHS, reduce maternity leave pay/rights, abolish inheritance tax and cut the foreign aid budget.
If you want any more detail, try looking it up yourself.
Quote:The BearQuote:JFPC
As they refuse to publish a manifesto, I can't point to any specific policies. However listening to some of the main player's speeches, hearing them on the radio, reading their tweets etc, they want to: fully privitise the NHS, reduce maternity leave pay/rights, abolish inheritance tax and cut the foreign aid budget.
If you want any more detail, try looking it up yourself.
But they're all speculation from the usual suspects. Like I said, I am sure there are elements that want those things (as there are in the Libs, Cons and even Labour). The majority of their voters don't.
I don't think the Brexit party will survive, but to call them far-right on the basis of speculation is lazy and just another attempt to shut down debate. Though, FWIW, even if they did have a manifesto, I don't think any parties current manifesto is worth the paper it is written on. Yet, none of them offering an election for their new manifesto's.
Quote:The Bear
But they're all speculation from the usual suspects.
I don't think the Brexit party will survive, but to call them far-right on the basis of speculation is lazy and just another attempt to shut down debate.
Quote:JFPC
Direct quotes from him: "We need to move to an insurance based system of healthcare"; "The European parliament, in their foolishness have voted to increase maternity pay".
Direct quote from brexit party chairman Richard Tice; "The brexit party is ready to do away with this horrible tax once and for all".
Halving the foreign aid budget is on their website.
If this is your idea of speculation then you need to check through some of your earlier posts!😁
Quote:The BearQuote:JFPC
Direct quotes from him: "We need to move to an insurance based system of healthcare"; "The European parliament, in their foolishness have voted to increase maternity pay".
Direct quote from brexit party chairman Richard Tice; "The brexit party is ready to do away with this horrible tax once and for all".
Halving the foreign aid budget is on their website.
If this is your idea of speculation then you need to check through some of your earlier posts!😁
My gosh! That's not far-right! It's probably leagues to the right of you but that doesn't make it far right.
And it is speculation. Even if Farage has sole control to enforce his policies, it doesn't mean he will. I would wager he doesn't. That kind of excessive liberalism is a vote-loser. Sadly Farage is in-tune enough to know that.
Quote:CoochieCooQuote:KingoftheHill
Has that bill been published? Can't recall seeing it
[researchbriefings.parliament.uk]
Quote:JFPC
I'd say that these policies are further to the right than even the Tories so fairly far right...
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:JFPC
I'd say that these policies are further to the right than even the Tories so fairly far right...
I wouldn't say the Tories are that right wing, Cameron basically moved the Tories so far left that it was hard to distinguish them from the Liberals. They may have moved a little bit back towards the right but not particularly right wing.
Quote:ChippenhamRomanQuote:OutsideBathQuote:JFPC
I'd say that these policies are further to the right than even the Tories so fairly far right...
I wouldn't say the Tories are that right wing, Cameron basically moved the Tories so far left that it was hard to distinguish them from the Liberals. They may have moved a little bit back towards the right but not particularly right wing.
That Left wing Austerity was a doozy, right enough.
Thank god the Consevertives now have found all that money to build schools, hospitals, employ more coppers, invest in Defence, money for Northern Ireland’s DUP.
Glad it was worth it.
J
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Just as a matter of interest, with the benefit of hindsight, how would you have addressed the deficit in 2010 of £103bn?
Quote:JFPC
Money isn't real, it all comes from 'magic money trees' i.e. banks. There is an unlimited supply available from the Bank of England (and other central banks). The fallacy that a bank can only make loans based on a multiple of the deposits it has is widely believed but still a fallacy.
Quote:Dorset BoyQuote:JFPC
Money isn't real, it all comes from 'magic money trees' i.e. banks. There is an unlimited supply available from the Bank of England (and other central banks). The fallacy that a bank can only make loans based on a multiple of the deposits it has is widely believed but still a fallacy.
You confuse central banks and private banks.
Central banks, if they also control their own currency, can create whatever money they want, but it may / will cause significant inflation and a devaluation of their currency if they are too loose.
Private banks can only lend relative to their assets - excessive lending relative to those assets was a factor in the 2008-09 crisis, hence why they have all been forced by regulators for improve their asset / debt rations in the decade since.
Biggest saving in the UK would be a genuine restructure of the NHS. Why is no one asking why it is the 5th largest employer in the world, yet has a shortage of front line staff (or so we are constantly being told)? We need to stop throwing money at that black hole and sort out the clear over staffing in the backrooms.
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Interesting JFPC
So why have the USA been very gently unwinding QE if it does not matter?
Also if it does not matter then why has everyone now (for the moment) stopped?
Quote:John Tee
Also makes a mockery of a no no deal clause.
The e.u can do anything they pretty much like and Johnson couldnt walk away...??
Im not sure why the E.U would want an intransigent partner to hang around though, surely it is not for the money.
Quote:annie blackthorn
Not sure about all this today. Is this just the final 'end game' positions. As I now believe that Johnson has never ever had any intention of getting a deal of any sort and has been 'playing games'(thus keeping his promise to his financial backers and appalling political ideologists in ERG, am I right to be unsurprised?
What does rattle around at the back of my mind iswhat is going to happen to our society when the blinkered ordinary Brexiteer voters wake up to the chaos that is going to ensue, which is surely why the Conservatives are so keen to have a general election asap before the proverbial hits the fan? I would btw, like to be wrong. Dearie me.
Quote:DanWiley
And you think that will happen now?
Things generally getting sorted in brexit seems to be from the Lt George school of mindless optimise from what I can see.
"Oh, go on, give us a deal, your honor, please! It's a lovely day. Pretty, clouds, trees, birds, etc. I rest my case."
Quote:The Bear
I still find it surprising that nationalists often have more support for their objectives from the rest of the UK than the Unionists.
I'm sure in large parts that's to do with the alignment of politics (anti-brexit, pro-abortion) and economic convenience but in a world where both major parties are expected to consent to the laws of its land, it seems odd to abandon the principle in this case.
It may be an inconvenient but any shift in the constitutional situation in Northern Ireland (from the current default to UK law to a permanent default of Irish law) should not be taken lightly and should probably be worth more than any economic consideration - it is a situation without precedent.
Quote:ChippenhamRoman
Re your last point, the Reunification of Germany would be a strong and relatively modern precedent.
They also had the issue of the Collapse of Communism to deal with (property law, etc).
J
Quote:The BearQuote:ChippenhamRoman
Re your last point, the Reunification of Germany would be a strong and relatively modern precedent.
They also had the issue of the Collapse of Communism to deal with (property law, etc).
J
That's a precedent for a different case (reunification).
Can you tell me a time a country defaulted the constitutional basis of a territory to that of another country (or countries)?
Can you tell me a time where a country allowed a legal order of a country or institution of which it is not a member to be supreme in part of its territory?
Can you tell me a time a country has allowed a foreign entity to decide what laws it is allowed to pass in its own territory?
It's not a 'light' undertaking.
Quote:ChippenhamRomanQuote:The BearQuote:ChippenhamRoman
Re your last point, the Reunification of Germany would be a strong and relatively modern precedent.
They also had the issue of the Collapse of Communism to deal with (property law, etc).
J
That's a precedent for a different case (reunification).
Can you tell me a time a country defaulted the constitutional basis of a territory to that of another country (or countries)?
Can you tell me a time where a country allowed a legal order of a country or institution of which it is not a member to be supreme in part of its territory?
Can you tell me a time a country has allowed a foreign entity to decide what laws it is allowed to pass in its own territory?
It's not a 'light' undertaking.
Texas. The Republic of Texas after gaining Independence from Mexico was Independent from 1836 until it agreed to join the United States in 1845.
Quote:ChippenhamRoman
Also regarding your first sentence a large chunk of the population of said territory would argue that it is the exact same situation (reunification). And the way things are going more likely than ever to happen.
J
Quote:The BearQuote:JFPC
As they refuse to publish a manifesto, I can't point to any specific policies. However listening to some of the main player's speeches, hearing them on the radio, reading their tweets etc, they want to: fully privitise the NHS, reduce maternity leave pay/rights, abolish inheritance tax and cut the foreign aid budget.
If you want any more detail, try looking it up yourself.
But they're all speculation from the usual suspects. Like I said, I am sure there are elements that want those things (as there are in the Libs, Cons and even Labour). The majority of their voters don't.
I don't think the Brexit party will survive, but to call them far-right on the basis of speculation is lazy and just another attempt to shut down debate. Though, FWIW, even if they did have a manifesto, I don't think any parties current manifesto is worth the paper it is written on. Yet, none of them offering an election for their new manifesto's.
Quote:John Tee
The consequences of staying in however will lead to ever closer union, to the point that our current concept of a nation will be unrecognisable.
Once people of all nations wake up to that then the E.U will be in trouble.
Quote:John Tee
Dont need to, the referendum was won. All Johnson needs is numbers is parliament.
Quote:Dorset Boy
A GE is not the way to determine Brexit as say you like Labour's Brexit policy, but are extremely worried by the rest of their idiotic policies, what would you do?
Or if you are a staunch Labour Brexiteer?
A two stage referendum is the only sensible way to deal with Brexit:
St 1: No Deal vs Deal vs Remain
St 2: Top two of the above go head to head 2 weeks later.
A GE cannot become a single topic vote as it is about so much more.
We do also need a GE though.
Quote:BathMatt53
Is deal actually an option?! If the majority voted leave and deal then aren't we back to the position we are in now - unless someone can come up with an acceptable Ireland solution after 3 1/2 years of the best minds thinking about it (no I'm not talking about politicians).
Quote:Dorset Boy
A GE is not the way to determine Brexit as say you like Labour's Brexit policy, but are extremely worried by the rest of their idiotic policies, what would you do?
Or if you are a staunch Labour Brexiteer?
Quote:DanWiley
"One thing is certain: having an artificial referendum on artificial deal will solve nothing"
Have a genuine one then. What's artificial about no deal or no brexit?
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Dorset Boy
A GE is not the way to determine Brexit as say you like Labour's Brexit policy, but are extremely worried by the rest of their idiotic policies, what would you do?
Or if you are a staunch Labour Brexiteer?
A two stage referendum is the only sensible way to deal with Brexit:
St 1: No Deal vs Deal vs Remain
St 2: Top two of the above go head to head 2 weeks later.
A GE cannot become a single topic vote as it is about so much more.
We do also need a GE though.
St1 just splits the exit vote and wouldn't be fair. Since a deal is clearly not possible St 2 would be fine by itself:
Option 1: Leave (with no deal)
Option 2: remain
Quote:BathMatt53
Leo V thinks it’s all possible now so maybe Boris IS the saviour after all?
Quote:joethefanaticQuote:BathMatt53
Leo V thinks it’s all possible now so maybe Boris IS the saviour after all?
I fear that any deal acceptable to the EU will not be acceptable to the Brexiteers.
Quote:joethefanaticQuote:BathMatt53
Leo V thinks it’s all possible now so maybe Boris IS the saviour after all?
I fear that any deal acceptable to the EU will not be acceptable to the Brexiteers.
Quote:Mike the Taxi
Markets and Currencies seem pleased!