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MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
27 September, 2019 17:52
Quote:
KingoftheHill
Has that bill been published? Can't recall seeing it

[researchbriefings.parliament.uk]



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
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John Tee
John Tee
27 September, 2019 19:20
quite a lot of concessions rather than out and out obligations.

Payments through transition period..which if there isnt one means you don't pay that.
As a negotiating tactic, you would pick that apart and arrive at a lesser figure.

im not sure what is meant that no e.u country will pay more...??
Why would that have anything to do with us after we have left.

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
27 September, 2019 19:22
Imagine if the Conservatives could get Brexit and UKIP on side!

I guess that would be the biggest share of the vote for a very, very long time

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
27 September, 2019 20:26
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
Imagine if the Conservatives could get Brexit and UKIP on side!
I guess that would be the biggest share of the vote for a very, very long time

Take a step to the right, then another, then right a bit more...itís not a nice thought tbh.



[Actively seeking a new adoptee: until I'm assigned one I'm going for Joshua Matavesi]

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
27 September, 2019 20:30
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
Imagine if the Conservatives could get Brexit and UKIP on side!
I guess that would be the biggest share of the vote for a very, very long time

Take a step to the right, then another, then right a bit more...itís not a nice thought tbh.

At what point do they do the pelvic thrust?



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
27 September, 2019 21:04
I canít get the thought of Boris dressed up as Franknfurter out of my head now, thanks for that!



[Actively seeking a new adoptee: until I'm assigned one I'm going for Joshua Matavesi]

annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn
27 September, 2019 22:47
CC =Doubt very much its got a lot to do with current government and PM.

Much more that the Opposition parties and esp Corbyn and Co (or whatever you wish to name them) can't agree on anything and the Lib Dems and assorted others don't seem to be able to present a united front - anymore than in reality the Conservatives can. So the Tories seem to be the best bet, and may well look to Farage and his motley crew for support in marginals.

Its an unholy dangerous mess.

My bet is that Cummings and his fellow travellers are rubbing their hands in glee - esp those billionaire financial investment bankers (as shown on TV this week).

gaz59
gaz59
27 September, 2019 22:59
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
Imagine if the Conservatives could get Brexit and UKIP on side!
I guess that would be the biggest share of the vote for a very, very long time

Take a step to the right, then another, then right a bit more...itís not a nice thought tbh.

+1

But it is exactly the language and strategy that Cummings is taking straight out of the Trump playbook

Will secure them power probably but won't heal the divisions in the country

If you are financially sound, healthy physically and mentally and you have a supportive network of friends and family you will do fine

If you are young, struggling for work or you are frail or unwell or aged and alone then best turn to prayer

DanWiley
DanWiley
27 September, 2019 23:16
"Imagine if the Conservatives could get Brexit and UKIP on side!"

Aren't the monster mad raving looney party out performing UKIP?

The problem the conservatives have is they can't move to the right and capture the brexit party vote without losing the vote of the centre of their party.

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
27 September, 2019 23:51
As I have said earlier a number of my friends are strong remainers but think, in the event that an election takes place soon, that they will vote Conservative because the prospect of a Corbyn led government is significantly less appealing than Brexit.

DanWiley
DanWiley
28 September, 2019 00:25
Doesn't that show why we SHOULDN'T use an election as a referendum on brexit? I don't want Corbyn as pm. I don't want brexit. One way or the other you're asking me to abuse my vote.

So, I'm sure you do have friends like that, there will be labour voters saying as much as I want brexit I can't vote Johnson. I'm just saying for every vote they gain on the right they lose one in the centre. The polls the conservatives are running are telling them as much. That's why Farrage is @#$%& with Johnson, he was hoping that BJ would get into bed with him, but Boris is being told that's something he needs to distance himself from if he wants to win.

annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn
28 September, 2019 11:03
Dan - what do mean by Conservatives move to the right. They would all fall off the end of the table if they did this. LOL!

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
28 September, 2019 13:09
Yes you are right Dan but I would also perceive that Labour Brxiteers in say Sunderland and Doncaster (for example)......have less in common with Islington/Seamus Milne's/Momentum's Labour than say historically Callaghan/Wilson/Healey/Brown's Labour. Note I omit Mandelsohn and Blair!!!!

I said on 'ere several pages ago that Sir John Curtice has identified that Brexiteers, in the main, are very passionate about leaving..........well you would have to be given all the forecasts of Armageddon arriving just in the event of a Leave Vote..............and therefore AS A ONE OFF IN YOUR LIFETIME could you bring yourself to vote for a person who will deliver Brexit for you.........particularly if that person has the establishment against him and therefore something you might perceive to have in common with him.


Also, if it is of any interest, most analysts I am aware of are rather more concerned about US/Sino trade relations........which are definitely having an impact , note the reduction in the growth rate in China.........and rumours of unemployment than Brexit. In addition the slowdown in the European economies, Germany, the powerhouse of Europe is either in recession or very close to it.....and this will have a greater impact on the other European countries, including the UK, than Brexit.

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
28 September, 2019 13:20
Also I think the view that the Brexit party is a right wing group is misplaced. I think the Brexit Party is supported by people across the political spectrum who want Brexit to happen.

I thought, until Question Time on Thursday evening, that 100% of Liberals wanted to revoke Article 50 but it seems, and confirmed byEd Davey that there are some Liberals who are also in favour of Brexit......mind you I suspect not that many!

JFPC
JFPC
28 September, 2019 14:46
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
Also I think the view that the Brexit party is a right wing group is misplaced. I think the Brexit Party is supported by people across the political spectrum who want Brexit to happen

The brexit party is very right wing, some of its supporters might overlook the policies as brexit is more important to them, but that doesnít change the policies!



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
28 September, 2019 15:13
Quote:
JFPC

The brexit party is very right wing, some of its supporters might overlook the policies as brexit is more important to them, but that doesnít change the policies!

It's easy to make comments such as this but which of their policies do you regard as right wing? And don't just say 'hard Brexit'.

As far as I can tell, the Brexit party has no discernible, meaningful policies.

In polling and focus groups, it's voters typically fall on the socially Conservative, economically liberal side of the spectrum (simplistically, ex-Labour voters left behind by liberalism). Yet it's financial backers and leader are far more socially liberal in outlook and economically Conservative. Like our parliament, it's a dead party, only being kept alive by Brexit.



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

John Tee
John Tee
28 September, 2019 15:59
I think the clue is in the name...
The Brexit Party.

JFPC
JFPC
28 September, 2019 17:02
Quote:
The Bear
Quote:
JFPC

The brexit party is very right wing, some of its supporters might overlook the policies as brexit is more important to them, but that doesnít change the policies!

It's easy to make comments such as this but which of their policies do you regard as right wing? And don't just say 'hard Brexit'.

As far as I can tell, the Brexit party has no discernible, meaningful policies.

In polling and focus groups, it's voters typically fall on the socially Conservative, economically liberal side of the spectrum (simplistically, ex-Labour voters left behind by liberalism). Yet it's financial backers and leader are far more socially liberal in outlook and economically Conservative. Like our parliament, it's a dead party, only being kept alive by Brexit.

As they refuse to publish a manifesto, I can't point to any specific policies. However listening to some of the main player's speeches, hearing them on the radio, reading their tweets etc, they want to: fully privitise the NHS, reduce maternity leave pay/rights, abolish inheritance tax and cut the foreign aid budget.

If you want any more detail, try looking it up yourself.



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
28 September, 2019 19:38
Quote:
JFPC
As they refuse to publish a manifesto, I can't point to any specific policies. However listening to some of the main player's speeches, hearing them on the radio, reading their tweets etc, they want to: fully privitise the NHS, reduce maternity leave pay/rights, abolish inheritance tax and cut the foreign aid budget.

If you want any more detail, try looking it up yourself.

But they're all speculation from the usual suspects. Like I said, I am sure there are elements that want those things (as there are in the Libs, Cons and even Labour). The majority of their voters don't.

I don't think the Brexit party will survive, but to call them far-right on the basis of speculation is lazy and just another attempt to shut down debate. Though, FWIW, even if they did have a manifesto, I don't think any parties current manifesto is worth the paper it is written on. Yet, none of them offering an election for their new manifesto's.



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
28 September, 2019 20:06
Quote:
The Bear
Quote:
JFPC
As they refuse to publish a manifesto, I can't point to any specific policies. However listening to some of the main player's speeches, hearing them on the radio, reading their tweets etc, they want to: fully privitise the NHS, reduce maternity leave pay/rights, abolish inheritance tax and cut the foreign aid budget.

If you want any more detail, try looking it up yourself.

But they're all speculation from the usual suspects. Like I said, I am sure there are elements that want those things (as there are in the Libs, Cons and even Labour). The majority of their voters don't.

I don't think the Brexit party will survive, but to call them far-right on the basis of speculation is lazy and just another attempt to shut down debate. Though, FWIW, even if they did have a manifesto, I don't think any parties current manifesto is worth the paper it is written on. Yet, none of them offering an election for their new manifesto's.

Yes, they are. They are just offering the general election after the 31OCT.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

JFPC
JFPC
28 September, 2019 20:07
Quote:
The Bear

But they're all speculation from the usual suspects.

I don't think the Brexit party will survive, but to call them far-right on the basis of speculation is lazy and just another attempt to shut down debate.

What do you mean speculation from the usual suspects?

The brexit party is quite uniquely run (https://www.politico.eu/article/nigel-farage-brexit-party-start-up-politics-eu-election/) and 'call me Nige' is fully in charge. Direct quotes from him: "We need to move to an insurance based system of healthcare"; "The European parliament, in their foolishness have voted to increase maternity pay".
Direct quote from brexit party chairman Richard Tice; "The brexit party is ready to do away with this horrible tax once and for all".
Halving the foreign aid budget is on their website.

If this is your idea of speculation then you need to check through some of your earlier posts!😁



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
29 September, 2019 18:52
Do you really believe that the Brexit Party will exist once/if Brexit is delivered?

If an election takes place and the Brexit Party works with the Conservatives to try and deliver a majority the Conservatives will then manage the Leave process.

The UK will then return to "normal" politics...........one can only hope............and the Brexit Party will melt away like snow in the Spring!

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
29 September, 2019 19:15
The prediction using the latest poll of Brexit Party at 14% will mean they wonít win a seat!



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
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John Tee
John Tee
29 September, 2019 19:16
For their 'gift' to Johnson, i think they would want a place in the negotiating team...
I dont think they'd push many other agendas but if one or two played a sensible long game, they might get adopted.

A successful partnership gets them a chip in the game.

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
29 September, 2019 21:42
Quote:
JFPC
Direct quotes from him: "We need to move to an insurance based system of healthcare"; "The European parliament, in their foolishness have voted to increase maternity pay".
Direct quote from brexit party chairman Richard Tice; "The brexit party is ready to do away with this horrible tax once and for all".
Halving the foreign aid budget is on their website.

If this is your idea of speculation then you need to check through some of your earlier posts!😁

My gosh! That's not far-right! It's probably leagues to the right of you but that doesn't make it far right.

And it is speculation. Even if Farage has sole control to enforce his policies, it doesn't mean he will. I would wager he doesn't. That kind of excessive liberalism is a vote-loser. Sadly Farage is in-tune enough to know that.



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

DanWiley
DanWiley
29 September, 2019 21:47
They wanted 80 seats as the price for getting Johnson out of the hole he's in. Johnson wasn't interested, but if they had 80 seats they aren't going anywhere. I suspect they might change their name a bit if they get any traction, perhaps the "I'm not a racist but... Party."?

I have to admit, I'm not sure they are in the position of strength the media makes out. There's just never been that many seats their message, Farrage himself couldn't even get elected.

JFPC
JFPC
29 September, 2019 23:03
Quote:
The Bear
Quote:
JFPC
Direct quotes from him: "We need to move to an insurance based system of healthcare"; "The European parliament, in their foolishness have voted to increase maternity pay".
Direct quote from brexit party chairman Richard Tice; "The brexit party is ready to do away with this horrible tax once and for all".
Halving the foreign aid budget is on their website.

If this is your idea of speculation then you need to check through some of your earlier posts!😁

My gosh! That's not far-right! It's probably leagues to the right of you but that doesn't make it far right.

And it is speculation. Even if Farage has sole control to enforce his policies, it doesn't mean he will. I would wager he doesn't. That kind of excessive liberalism is a vote-loser. Sadly Farage is in-tune enough to know that.

I'd say that these policies are further to the right than even the Tories so fairly far right...

The only way it's speculation is if Farage is the sort of slimy, lying, duplicitous, untrustworthy barsteward who goes back on his word at the drop of a hat....



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30/09/2019 09:18 by JFPC.

kingofthehill
KingoftheHill
30 September, 2019 08:41
Quote:
CoochieCoo
Quote:
KingoftheHill
Has that bill been published? Can't recall seeing it

[researchbriefings.parliament.uk]

First bullet seems to destroy that in the event if a No Deal:

"contribute to and participate in the 2019 and 2020 EU budgets, as part of the transition (or implementation) period;"

DanWiley
DanWiley
30 September, 2019 09:12
I don't think it destroys it, it might give us a vague arguement not to pay, but to do so would be shooting ourselves in both feet. No deal is a pretty dumb thing to do, but in the event of it we REALLY are going to want to start negotiating a relationship with Europe quick. Starting that negotiation with a big f you seems to take stupidity to a new level.

On the other foot, no deal means we'll also be desperate for relations with other countries. Starting those negotiations with a global scale announcement that if things go wrong we'll feck off and leave you with the bill isn't a great idea.

To do this for this amount of money makes no sense.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
30 September, 2019 09:46
Quote:
JFPC
I'd say that these policies are further to the right than even the Tories so fairly far right...

I wouldn't say the Tories are that right wing, Cameron basically moved the Tories so far left that it was hard to distinguish them from the Liberals. They may have moved a little bit back towards the right but not particularly right wing.

ChippenhamRoman
ChippenhamRoman
30 September, 2019 10:50
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
JFPC
I'd say that these policies are further to the right than even the Tories so fairly far right...

I wouldn't say the Tories are that right wing, Cameron basically moved the Tories so far left that it was hard to distinguish them from the Liberals. They may have moved a little bit back towards the right but not particularly right wing.

That Left wing Austerity was a doozy, right enough.

Thank god the Consevertives now have found all that money to build schools, hospitals, employ more coppers, invest in Defence, money for Northern Irelandís DUP.

Glad it was worth it.

J

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
30 September, 2019 11:25
Quote:
ChippenhamRoman
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
JFPC
I'd say that these policies are further to the right than even the Tories so fairly far right...

I wouldn't say the Tories are that right wing, Cameron basically moved the Tories so far left that it was hard to distinguish them from the Liberals. They may have moved a little bit back towards the right but not particularly right wing.

That Left wing Austerity was a doozy, right enough.

Thank god the Consevertives now have found all that money to build schools, hospitals, employ more coppers, invest in Defence, money for Northern Irelandís DUP.

Glad it was worth it.

J

Yep, the period was spent planting those magic money trees and now is the time for the bumper harvest - with the money spent on the things that have fallen into ruin because not enough money was spent on them whilst saving up the money to spend on them.



[Actively seeking a new adoptee: until I'm assigned one I'm going for Joshua Matavesi]

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
30 September, 2019 12:13
Just as a matter of interest, with the benefit of hindsight, how would you have addressed the deficit in 2010 of £103bn?

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
30 September, 2019 12:26
I only have questions rather than answers to that BSJ. Cuts were needed but were they too deep and did they go on too long? With the deficit reduced, is that all going to be undone with a huge spending splurge? Itís a boom and bust approach that I find surprising - run them into the ground then throw cash at them - rather than a bit of belt tightening.



[Actively seeking a new adoptee: until I'm assigned one I'm going for Joshua Matavesi]

John Tee
John Tee
30 September, 2019 12:48
I think Johnson is entitled to spend a bit but id prefer to see higher taxes rather than borrowing...
not a vote winner though ....lets not pretend his approach would be unique. Both Corbyn and Swinson would spend and spend.

If we were 103billion in debt in 2010...and we were on our knees, id say 39bill is a lot of money to leave the e.u.
Leave, mind, not actually with a deal. That might come later.

JFPC
JFPC
30 September, 2019 12:52
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
Just as a matter of interest, with the benefit of hindsight, how would you have addressed the deficit in 2010 of £103bn?

Given that there was £435bn of quantitative easing by the UK government (via the BOE) around that time I'd say quite easily.

Also, as the magic money tree was mentioned earlier it is worth reminding ourselves of the 'reality' behind money, this article puts it well enough. [www.google.com]

And here's the BOE paper mentioned in the above article [www.google.com]

Apologies to Cc I should reread this piece on doing links properly!



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

JFPC
JFPC
30 September, 2019 12:58
Money isn't real, it all comes from 'magic money trees' i.e. banks. There is an unlimited supply available from the Bank of England (and other central banks that control thteir own currency).

Also the fallacy that a commercial bank can only make loans based on a multiple of the deposits it has is widely believed but still a fallacy as in simplified terms if a bank A lends money to bank B, bank B has a deposit that it can then lend multiple times the amount of back to Bank A, who now has a deposit that it can then lend against to Bank B, etc etc etc.



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30/09/2019 16:17 by JFPC.

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
30 September, 2019 13:03
It is interesting because we can now look back and say, reasonably, was that the right action, was it too much in that area, for too long, not enough in that area etc, etc.

As you know from above (!) I have been in Portugal and looking around and reading all I can and their cut backs were pretty severe following the bail out from the ECB. With relative wage cuts of public servants of on average 20% and 25% for all of those earning more than 1,500 Euros per month.

They also increased taxes.

Their deficit is now 0.5% of GDP the lowest level for 45 years and down from 11.2% in 2010.....however total debt as a percentage of GDP is a much higher 140%, as compared to Greece at 180% (Sm124), the UK at about 83%, Germany at 60% and Romania at 35%

DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy
30 September, 2019 15:24
Quote:
JFPC
Money isn't real, it all comes from 'magic money trees' i.e. banks. There is an unlimited supply available from the Bank of England (and other central banks). The fallacy that a bank can only make loans based on a multiple of the deposits it has is widely believed but still a fallacy.

You confuse central banks and private banks.
Central banks, if they also control their own currency, can create whatever money they want, but it may / will cause significant inflation and a devaluation of their currency if they are too loose.
Private banks can only lend relative to their assets - excessive lending relative to those assets was a factor in the 2008-09 crisis, hence why they have all been forced by regulators for improve their asset / debt rations in the decade since.

Biggest saving in the UK would be a genuine restructure of the NHS. Why is no one asking why it is the 5th largest employer in the world, yet has a shortage of front line staff (or so we are constantly being told)? We need to stop throwing money at that black hole and sort out the clear over staffing in the backrooms.

ade1865
Ade1865
30 September, 2019 15:35
Its the number of managers that need reducing. It might also help if the various computer systems were linked and there was no longer a reliance on paperwork as opposed to email etc.

Backlogs occur because medical secretaries are overloaded. this problem will only get worse as medical secretary is not a popular career among the young due to the lack of pay and prospects. Trying to find competent replacements is becoming harder year on year.

You can have as many consultants as you like, but they don't write their own letters (one has to question why) and then if, as at present several consultants rely on one secretary, who may also be covering cancer work, it is no wonder you cannot get hold of anyone and the booking of appointments takes so long.

sorry rant over.

JFPC
JFPC
30 September, 2019 16:10
Quote:
Dorset Boy
Quote:
JFPC
Money isn't real, it all comes from 'magic money trees' i.e. banks. There is an unlimited supply available from the Bank of England (and other central banks). The fallacy that a bank can only make loans based on a multiple of the deposits it has is widely believed but still a fallacy.

You confuse central banks and private banks.
Central banks, if they also control their own currency, can create whatever money they want, but it may / will cause significant inflation and a devaluation of their currency if they are too loose.
Private banks can only lend relative to their assets - excessive lending relative to those assets was a factor in the 2008-09 crisis, hence why they have all been forced by regulators for improve their asset / debt rations in the decade since.

Biggest saving in the UK would be a genuine restructure of the NHS. Why is no one asking why it is the 5th largest employer in the world, yet has a shortage of front line staff (or so we are constantly being told)? We need to stop throwing money at that black hole and sort out the clear over staffing in the backrooms.

I'm not confusing anything but I will edit it to make it clearer.

If you read the articles/papers in the links they explain why your points aren't valid. As a poor prťcis for your two points: hundreds of billions of quantitative easing has not affected inflation/currency valuation has it? and as almost all bank loans immediately become 'deposits' in another bank lending relative to assets becomes bull crap



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
01 October, 2019 17:12
Interesting JFPC

So why have the USA been very gently unwinding QE if it does not matter?

Also if it does not matter then why has everyone now (for the moment) stopped?

JFPC
JFPC
01 October, 2019 18:12
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
Interesting JFPC
So why have the USA been very gently unwinding QE if it does not matter?

Also if it does not matter then why has everyone now (for the moment) stopped?

It didn't and doesn't seem to be mattering in terms of inflation and/or currency valuation, which is the usual reason given for central banks not bailing out their governments, my guess for the unwinding is that the justification for it was to stabilise the banks and that's getting harder to justify.



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
08 October, 2019 10:42
Merkel has just told BoJo that NI must be in the CU for a deal to be struck. Looks like complete impasse, extension or no deal? Is there any point in extension? I bet some MPs regret voting against Mayís deal!



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
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John Tee
John Tee
08 October, 2019 10:50
Also makes a mockery of a no no deal clause.

The e.u can do anything they pretty much like and Johnson couldnt walk away...??

Im not sure why the E.U would want an intransigent partner to hang around though, surely it is not for the money.

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
08 October, 2019 10:52
Talking to someone from NI last week and he said that in 20 years...ÖÖ.maybe 10 there would be an all island Ireland!

ChippenhamRoman
ChippenhamRoman
08 October, 2019 10:53
Quote:
John Tee
Also makes a mockery of a no no deal clause.
The e.u can do anything they pretty much like and Johnson couldnt walk away...??

Im not sure why the E.U would want an intransigent partner to hang around though, surely it is not for the money.

The EUs very definition is expansionist. Of course it would like to have one of its driving members staying.

Intransigent under the current leadership, but as we know PMs come and go. Not sure that will be the case with someone else at the helm.

J

John Tee
John Tee
08 October, 2019 10:55
If they have the numbers in a vote..that is always the case.

But if one side doesnt accept that result....???

annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn
08 October, 2019 10:59
Not sure about all this today. Is this just the final 'end game' positions. As I now believe that Johnson has never ever had any intention of getting a deal of any sort and has been 'playing games'(thus keeping his promise to his financial backers and appalling political ideologists in ERG, am I right to be unsurprised?

What does rattle around at the back of my mind iswhat is going to happen to our society when the blinkered ordinary Brexiteer voters wake up to the chaos that is going to ensue, which is surely why the Conservatives are so keen to have a general election asap before the proverbial hits the fan? I would btw, like to be wrong. Dearie me.

John Tee
John Tee
08 October, 2019 11:35
Vince Cable was recently on radio4 and said he accepted that no deal consequences in movement of trade would be sorted in a matter of days/weeks.

The consequences of staying in however will lead to ever closer union, to the point that our current concept of a nation will be unrecognisable.

Once people of all nations wake up to that then the E.U will be in trouble.
At the moment you can buy off 19 odd nations because they financially benefit. When that equation doesn't work, that is a big problem. When the current net contributors are asked to cough up more, that will be a big test.
Then countries will look at what they get back...

ChippenhamRoman
ChippenhamRoman
08 October, 2019 11:36
Quote:
annie blackthorn
Not sure about all this today. Is this just the final 'end game' positions. As I now believe that Johnson has never ever had any intention of getting a deal of any sort and has been 'playing games'(thus keeping his promise to his financial backers and appalling political ideologists in ERG, am I right to be unsurprised?
What does rattle around at the back of my mind iswhat is going to happen to our society when the blinkered ordinary Brexiteer voters wake up to the chaos that is going to ensue, which is surely why the Conservatives are so keen to have a general election asap before the proverbial hits the fan? I would btw, like to be wrong. Dearie me.

And also once it dawns that ďjust getting it doneĒ on the 31st is just the start. The utter chaos of no deal, while trying frantically to keep vital food and medicines flowing. Couches that with an election, and trying to actually sit back down with the EU to discuss our trading relationship.

God help us if Northern Ireland goes to rats again.

First item on the agenda - Northern Island and the money that you owe us U.K.

J

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
08 October, 2019 15:43
Negotiations always get messy!

And then, "generally", it gets sorted!

DanWiley
DanWiley
08 October, 2019 17:06
And you think that will happen now?

Things generally getting sorted in brexit seems to be from the Lt George school of mindless optimise from what I can see.

"Oh, go on, give us a deal, your honor, please! It's a lovely day. Pretty, clouds, trees, birds, etc. I rest my case."

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
08 October, 2019 17:08
Quote:
DanWiley
And you think that will happen now?
Things generally getting sorted in brexit seems to be from the Lt George school of mindless optimise from what I can see.

"Oh, go on, give us a deal, your honor, please! It's a lovely day. Pretty, clouds, trees, birds, etc. I rest my case."

You're absolutely right a deal isn't going to be sorted so we leave with no deal then.

gaz59
gaz59
08 October, 2019 17:35
Johnson isn't bothered either way. He isn't playing for a deal. He is all about the GE

Get a deal and he reckons he can portray it as the stuff of tough Churchillian leadership - cue fanfare for a landslide

Take no deal and he will bag enough pro-Brexit votes from his simple electioneering slogan to be at least largest party possibly with small overall majority if he can damage limit Scotland and see off enough Brexit party hopefuls

Labour has to hope that it can cut through the Brexit issues and get enough airspace for a decent set of policies to overcome the Corbyn factor - a tough hill to climb when he is facing a 42 point deficit over the least trustworthy PM we have had in many a decade

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
08 October, 2019 18:00
May be not in this case Mr Wiley that's why I wrote "generally"...Ö

Clearly the EU is an unusual situation with 28 parties involved.

The EU does have a history of getting stuff done at the last minute.

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
08 October, 2019 18:04
I still find it surprising that nationalists often have more support for their objectives from the rest of the UK than the Unionists.

I'm sure in large parts that's to do with the alignment of politics (anti-brexit, pro-abortion) and economic convenience but in a world where both major parties are expected to consent to the laws of its land, it seems odd to abandon the principle in this case.

It may be an inconvenient but any shift in the constitutional situation in Northern Ireland (from the current default to UK law to a permanent default of Irish law) should not be taken lightly and should probably be worth more than any economic consideration - it is a situation without precedent.



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

ChippenhamRoman
ChippenhamRoman
08 October, 2019 18:33
Quote:
The Bear
I still find it surprising that nationalists often have more support for their objectives from the rest of the UK than the Unionists.
I'm sure in large parts that's to do with the alignment of politics (anti-brexit, pro-abortion) and economic convenience but in a world where both major parties are expected to consent to the laws of its land, it seems odd to abandon the principle in this case.

It may be an inconvenient but any shift in the constitutional situation in Northern Ireland (from the current default to UK law to a permanent default of Irish law) should not be taken lightly and should probably be worth more than any economic consideration - it is a situation without precedent.

Re your last point, the Reunification of Germany would be a strong and relatively modern precedent.

They also had the issue of the Collapse of Communism to deal with (property law, etc).

J

DanWiley
DanWiley
08 October, 2019 19:25
'May be not in this case Mr Wiley that's why I wrote "generally"...Ö'

If you don't think it's applicable in this case I'm struggling to see why you wrote it at all?

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
08 October, 2019 22:29
Quote:
ChippenhamRoman

Re your last point, the Reunification of Germany would be a strong and relatively modern precedent.

They also had the issue of the Collapse of Communism to deal with (property law, etc).

J

That's a precedent for a different case (reunification).

Can you tell me a time a country defaulted the constitutional basis of a territory to that of another country (or countries)?

Can you tell me a time where a country allowed a legal order of a country or institution of which it is not a member to be supreme in part of its territory?

Can you tell me a time a country has allowed a foreign entity to decide what laws it is allowed to pass in its own territory?

It's not a 'light' undertaking.



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

ChippenhamRoman
ChippenhamRoman
08 October, 2019 22:39
Quote:
The Bear
Quote:
ChippenhamRoman

Re your last point, the Reunification of Germany would be a strong and relatively modern precedent.

They also had the issue of the Collapse of Communism to deal with (property law, etc).

J

That's a precedent for a different case (reunification).

Can you tell me a time a country defaulted the constitutional basis of a territory to that of another country (or countries)?

Can you tell me a time where a country allowed a legal order of a country or institution of which it is not a member to be supreme in part of its territory?

Can you tell me a time a country has allowed a foreign entity to decide what laws it is allowed to pass in its own territory?

It's not a 'light' undertaking.

Texas. The Republic of Texas after gaining Independence from Mexico was Independent from 1836 until it agreed to join the United States in 1845.

Also regarding your first sentence a large chunk of the population of said territory would argue that it is the exact same situation (reunification). And the way things are going more likely than ever to happen.

J

John Tee
John Tee
09 October, 2019 11:06
Not large enough though...and no real push for it on the horizon.

ade1865
Ade1865
09 October, 2019 11:21
So the latest polls give Tories a lead of between 6% and 15%.
Once we leave without a deal, pretty much assured I would say unless we delay/abort, then presumably the 12-13% of Brexit party voters will filter back into their previous parties, perhaps more Tory than Labour. I don't see many crossing the great divide from blue to red or vice versa come a GE. So perhaps then a slight increase to the Tory lead over Labour, but not enough for a majority. Surely leaving without a deal will rile a good deal of the majority of voters who are fairly moderately left to moderately right, so potentially a loss for the Tories and a gain for the Lib Dems. I think Labour are about as low as they can go. Green will gain no matter what, but possibly not enough yet to win another seat.

I dont think the polls, or the politicians have taken into account the impact that rising prices, food and medicine shortages will have on voters choices.

If we postpone/abort, then Brexit Party will take away from both Tories and Labour, with moderate potentially nudging towards Lib Dems in the hope that the whole mess can be avoided. So polls will stay much as they are and whilst Tories will have 33-38% of the vote that will not be enough.

Either way I don't see Labour going anywhere at the moment, not enough to increase market share, tories will still not have a majority and Lib Dems will gain, so another hung parliament then. probably ongoing for the next 10-20 years unless something bizarre happens, you know, like climate change!

Just my thoughts anyway.

John Tee
John Tee
09 October, 2019 13:39
i dont think voters are in a forgiving mood. I expect Brexit party to pick up votes unless Brexit is done and dusted.
I think if Johnson has to extend, the GE cant wait and the possibility is that there could be mandate for no deal, therafter because he will cur a deal with the labour heartlands by fightung alongside Farage.
This is why i think there will be a deal.

Corbyn could soon be toast but unless Momentum is put in its place, you have thd same issue, different face.

The more you see of Swinson, the more she seems unelectable too but i think the Lib Dems will gain on the remain stick.

Was it the Greens who were pushing for Carbon neutral by 2025...because that hole that party below the water.

If Johnson gets Brexit done he can expect a period of tolerance before he is toppled.
if he doesnt, he is gone anyway. That is why he has little to lose, imv.

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
09 October, 2019 13:45
Quote:
ChippenhamRoman
Quote:
The Bear
Quote:
ChippenhamRoman

Re your last point, the Reunification of Germany would be a strong and relatively modern precedent.

They also had the issue of the Collapse of Communism to deal with (property law, etc).

J

That's a precedent for a different case (reunification).

Can you tell me a time a country defaulted the constitutional basis of a territory to that of another country (or countries)?

Can you tell me a time where a country allowed a legal order of a country or institution of which it is not a member to be supreme in part of its territory?

Can you tell me a time a country has allowed a foreign entity to decide what laws it is allowed to pass in its own territory?

It's not a 'light' undertaking.

Texas. The Republic of Texas after gaining Independence from Mexico was Independent from 1836 until it agreed to join the United States in 1845.

That's not the same. It declared independence and was recognised by a chunk of countries. It had its own democratically chosen legislature. It did not follow the laws of the USA without any say.

(Also, Customs and Trade regs were very much different in 1836 than the modern day).

Quote:
ChippenhamRoman

Also regarding your first sentence a large chunk of the population of said territory would argue that it is the exact same situation (reunification). And the way things are going more likely than ever to happen.

J

What the nationalists may want is different to the reality of the situation. They, of course, want the default constitutional basis to be that of Ireland because it will then be impossible to reverse. Many people understand the importance of that to the nationalists while completely diminishing what that would mean to the Unionists.



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
09 October, 2019 13:48
Big question will be whether the Tory rebels vote against a Queen's speech going for No Deal.

Vote against and they can be purged. Unpopular with Remain Tories but will win flocks of Brexit Party voters.

If they vote with the government then he still faces fundamentally the same issue and the voters know it: that parliament can and will hijack the process and they only way they could change them would be voting for someone else.



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
09 October, 2019 14:48
Latest Poll - I believe this poll works on algorithms of social media activity!

CON: 40% (+2)
LAB: 23% (=)
LDEM: 12% (-3)
BREX: 13% (+1)
GRN: 4% (=)

via @OpiniumResearcH

So Tories near their 2017 result. This gives them a landslide!

This info is fake news just announced by Britain Elects



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2019 15:38 by CoochieCoo.

ade1865
Ade1865
09 October, 2019 15:24
I'd be wary of anything that was based on social media activity considering the number of trolls and multiple accounts out there.

John Tee
John Tee
09 October, 2019 15:24
imagine there might be a lot of Tories who dont touch social media..?

ade1865
Ade1865
09 October, 2019 15:28
Can you clarify how that works CC, as I don't understand how less than 50% gets you a majority, let alone a landslide.

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
09 October, 2019 15:35
Sorry guys Britain Elects just tweeted that they didnít tweet those figures so ignore it.

Regardless of that, itís about FPTP, Ade, e.g the LibDems have a better %age of the popular vote than the SNP but have less seats!



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none

ade1865
Ade1865
09 October, 2019 15:47
So I presume going on past elections 40% get the Tories a majority, but wouldn't for Labour? Or would it work for them too? Surely it all depends on who votes where? I wouldn't be at all surprised if several of the local seats go LibDem for example, whearas Libdem voters in strong Tory or Labour seats would be 'wasted'.

DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy
09 October, 2019 16:06
Historically, I believe Labour have needed fewer votes than the Conservatives to get a majority. It's one of the reasons why constituency boundaries are changed from time to time.

Lib Dem votes tend to be in pockets, SW London, Somerset, Devon & Cornwall, but they've had less support in other areas. However they are often runners up to the Conservatives, but less often runners up to Labour.

Labour are often a distant 3rd or 4th in the south but their heartlands are traditionally the northern cities.

As you say, it really depends on where the votes are cast as to their effect. The Greens might get a 10% vote share spread evenly across the country, but that would probably only net them one seat, Brighton.

Likewise the Brexit Party are likely to take a sizeable number of votes in the pro-Brexit cities of the north from Labour, but will that be enough to get them any seats?

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
09 October, 2019 16:09
I think it is a question of a party holding the seat losing it because of tactical voting splitting their vote and allowing a party to gain. The last election was 43.5% Con 41% Lab, in seats that translated to C318 L262. The half way mark is 325 seats the Con were short of an overall majority by 8 seats so one doesnít have to have 50+% to get a majority!



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
09 October, 2019 20:52
Labour won an overall majority with 35 percent of the vote in 2005 and the Tories with 37 percent in 2015. You don't need to get anywhere *near* 50% to win with FPTP.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2019 20:54 by joethefanatic.

DanWiley
DanWiley
09 October, 2019 21:43
Seems a pretty good reason not to use an election as a referendum.

John Tee
John Tee
09 October, 2019 22:17
Dont need to, the referendum was won. All Johnson needs is numbers is parliament.

MESSAGES->author
jayeatman
09 October, 2019 22:48
Quote:
The Bear
Quote:
JFPC
As they refuse to publish a manifesto, I can't point to any specific policies. However listening to some of the main player's speeches, hearing them on the radio, reading their tweets etc, they want to: fully privitise the NHS, reduce maternity leave pay/rights, abolish inheritance tax and cut the foreign aid budget.

If you want any more detail, try looking it up yourself.

But they're all speculation from the usual suspects. Like I said, I am sure there are elements that want those things (as there are in the Libs, Cons and even Labour). The majority of their voters don't.

I don't think the Brexit party will survive, but to call them far-right on the basis of speculation is lazy and just another attempt to shut down debate. Though, FWIW, even if they did have a manifesto, I don't think any parties current manifesto is worth the paper it is written on. Yet, none of them offering an election for their new manifesto's.

[www.theneweuropean.co.uk]

Barnoid
Barnoid
09 October, 2019 23:10
Quote:
John Tee
The consequences of staying in however will lead to ever closer union, to the point that our current concept of a nation will be unrecognisable.
Once people of all nations wake up to that then the E.U will be in trouble.

When they wake up, what specific epiphany will the people of all nations have about their no-longer-recognisable-as-a-nation situation that will cause so much trouble for the E.U.?

Iím honestly curious. Is this an age thing? Were there some halcyon days prior to the mid-70s, before I was born, that I donít know about, which youíre trying to recreate or recapture? If itís a full head of hair, your own teeth, functioning erections, and the freedom to be sexist, racist, misogynistic, and homophobic that you miss, then sorry but Iím pretty sure leaving the E.U. won't help with any of those.

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
10 October, 2019 10:41
Quote:
John Tee
Dont need to, the referendum was won. All Johnson needs is numbers is parliament.

Besides, as Remainers often like to point out, the mode of leaving (and the zeal of remaining) are not binary. An election is a far better mechanism of settling the options available and gives voters the choice.

If Remain wanted the election to be treated as a referendum then all they have to do is step aside for one another. Because of their hubris they won't and that's why they don't want an election. They want to get their way without jeopardising they're cosy, privileged position...



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy
10 October, 2019 12:44
A GE is not the way to determine Brexit as say you like Labour's Brexit policy, but are extremely worried by the rest of their idiotic policies, what would you do?
Or if you are a staunch Labour Brexiteer?

A two stage referendum is the only sensible way to deal with Brexit:
St 1: No Deal vs Deal vs Remain
St 2: Top two of the above go head to head 2 weeks later.

A GE cannot become a single topic vote as it is about so much more.
We do also need a GE though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2019 12:45 by Dorset Boy.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
10 October, 2019 13:05
Quote:
Dorset Boy
A GE is not the way to determine Brexit as say you like Labour's Brexit policy, but are extremely worried by the rest of their idiotic policies, what would you do?
Or if you are a staunch Labour Brexiteer?

A two stage referendum is the only sensible way to deal with Brexit:
St 1: No Deal vs Deal vs Remain
St 2: Top two of the above go head to head 2 weeks later.

A GE cannot become a single topic vote as it is about so much more.
We do also need a GE though.

St1 just splits the exit vote and wouldn't be fair. Since a deal is clearly not possible St 2 would be fine by itself:

Option 1: Leave (with no deal)
Option 2: remain



[Actively seeking a new adoptee: until I'm assigned one I'm going for Joshua Matavesi]

JFPC
JFPC
10 October, 2019 13:14
Two stage question on one ballot paper:
1, leave or remain.
2, IF it's leave; deal or no deal



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
10 October, 2019 15:40
Is deal actually an option?! If the majority voted leave and deal then aren't we back to the position we are in now - unless someone can come up with an acceptable Ireland solution after 3 1/2 years of the best minds thinking about it (no I'm not talking about politicians).



[Actively seeking a new adoptee: until I'm assigned one I'm going for Joshua Matavesi]

JFPC
JFPC
10 October, 2019 16:09
Quote:
BathMatt53
Is deal actually an option?! If the majority voted leave and deal then aren't we back to the position we are in now - unless someone can come up with an acceptable Ireland solution after 3 1/2 years of the best minds thinking about it (no I'm not talking about politicians).

It would have to be May's deal as the EU have agreed to it and you make the referendum legally binding.



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2019 16:11 by JFPC.

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
10 October, 2019 16:09
Quote:
Dorset Boy
A GE is not the way to determine Brexit as say you like Labour's Brexit policy, but are extremely worried by the rest of their idiotic policies, what would you do?
Or if you are a staunch Labour Brexiteer?

What do you do at any election if you like some of one parties policies and like some of another's?

You can vote on the Single issue, you can vote on the balance of probabilities etc. A GE pretty much offers the spectrum of choice from ardent Remain (LD), through Remain by artificial referendum, through artificial deal through to no-deal.

One thing is certain: having an artificial referendum on artificial deal will solve nothing. It's a fix and it will guarantee that any future election will become single issue...



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

DanWiley
DanWiley
10 October, 2019 16:12
"One thing is certain: having an artificial referendum on artificial deal will solve nothing"

Have a genuine one then. What's artificial about no deal or no brexit?

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
10 October, 2019 16:26
Quote:
DanWiley
"One thing is certain: having an artificial referendum on artificial deal will solve nothing"
Have a genuine one then. What's artificial about no deal or no brexit?

Isn't going to happen... and it still offers less choice than a GE.

And at least with an election, the winning party will have to get their position through parliament. In theory, that means a moderating force but more importantly scrutiny and process. Hopefully they will be able to do something. A referendum short circuits that, entrenches the division, exerts no control on the government and ruins any subsequent election as a meaningful debate.

The fastest way to make any election about Brexit is to not deliver Brexit. This isn't going to go away because we had a referendum that close to half the country will view as illegitimate. Parliament is the only way to accommodate political differences.



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
10 October, 2019 16:49
I wonder if James Dyson is still going to leave for Singapore now that his car project has gone kaput? £2.5BN is a lot to write off...

[www.bbc.co.uk]



[Actively seeking a new adoptee: until I'm assigned one I'm going for Joshua Matavesi]

Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
10 October, 2019 17:07
Rumour has it that there is a ready built car manufacturing facility becoming available in the UK, within the next 2 years?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2019 17:10 by Mike the Taxi.

DanWiley
DanWiley
10 October, 2019 17:08
"And at least with an election, the winning party will have to get their position through parliament."

Even if its part of their manifesto?

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
10 October, 2019 17:08
Sounds to me like he sees a lot more money is selling solid state batteries than going through the hassle of trying to make a new car from scratch.



[Actively seeking a new adoptee: until I'm assigned one I'm going for Joshua Matavesi]

DanWiley
DanWiley
10 October, 2019 17:14
"Isn't going to happen... and it still offers less choice than a GE."

The choice at GE will be no deal, no brexit and a vote on no brexit or no deal. It's not a great deal more choice than just having that referendum. There really isn't the nuance you seem to think is there and the water will (and should) be muddied by other issues.

But hey, you want Corbyn for 5 years because he's taken the middle road, split the tory vote and joined up with the LDs. I'll just just as upset if the equally incompetent, dangerous and, frankly, idiotic BoJo gets in because he sells his party to Farrage.

MESSAGES->author
TCM2007
10 October, 2019 18:21
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
Dorset Boy
A GE is not the way to determine Brexit as say you like Labour's Brexit policy, but are extremely worried by the rest of their idiotic policies, what would you do?
Or if you are a staunch Labour Brexiteer?

A two stage referendum is the only sensible way to deal with Brexit:
St 1: No Deal vs Deal vs Remain
St 2: Top two of the above go head to head 2 weeks later.

A GE cannot become a single topic vote as it is about so much more.
We do also need a GE though.

St1 just splits the exit vote and wouldn't be fair. Since a deal is clearly not possible St 2 would be fine by itself:

Option 1: Leave (with no deal)
Option 2: remain

No Deal Vs Remain would be Remainís best possible chance of winning.

You can do a three way vote by using pretences so ďsplitĒ votes donít come in to play.

The deal would be the May deal, failing another being agreed.



Stuart

Former ed.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
10 October, 2019 19:43
Leo V thinks itís all possible now so maybe Boris IS the saviour after all?



[Actively seeking a new adoptee: until I'm assigned one I'm going for Joshua Matavesi]

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
10 October, 2019 22:16
Quote:
BathMatt53
Leo V thinks itís all possible now so maybe Boris IS the saviour after all?

I fear that any deal acceptable to the EU will not be acceptable to the Brexiteers.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k
10 October, 2019 23:16
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
BathMatt53
Leo V thinks itís all possible now so maybe Boris IS the saviour after all?

I fear that any deal acceptable to the EU will not be acceptable to the Brexiteers.

I fear that any deal acceptable to the EU will not be acceptable to the Remainers...



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gaz59
gaz59
11 October, 2019 07:54
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
BathMatt53
Leo V thinks itís all possible now so maybe Boris IS the saviour after all?

I fear that any deal acceptable to the EU will not be acceptable to the Brexiteers.

Won't stop Johnson saying one thing to Varadkar to get a deal and something very different to his the brexiteer factions in the tory party

He does have a considerably long track record of duplicity in work and personal life

Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
11 October, 2019 13:09
Markets and Currencies seem pleased!

gaz59
gaz59
11 October, 2019 18:32
Quote:
Mike the Taxi
Markets and Currencies seem pleased!

That's how people in the markets and currency business make their money

Big it up, sell then talk it down, buy, then big it up .... ad infinitum

That's all it means

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