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K-Nut
Bod
24 April, 2020 23:13
Dear EU disciples, pray tell how these Govt bail outs work under EU law?

Air France/ KLM bailed out by French & Dutch Governments

So , EU Commission how can these airlines receive state aid when your own rules specifically prohibit it..?

Or do these rules only apply to the UK and Flybe?

K-Nut
Bod
24 April, 2020 23:36
Update on negotiations

"Statement on Round Two of UK-EU negotiations
Posted by:Number 10 media team, Posted on:24 April 2020 - Categoriesconfused smileypokesperson statements
A UK Government spokesperson said:

“This was a full and constructive negotiating round, conducted remotely by video conference, and with a full range of discussions across all the issues, on the basis of the extensive legal texts provided by both sides in recent weeks.

“However, limited progress was made in bridging the gaps between us and the EU.

“Our assessment is that there was some promising convergence in the core areas of a Free Trade Agreement, for example on goods and services trade, and related issues such as energy, transport, and civil nuclear cooperation.

“We regret however that the detail of the EU’s offer on goods trade falls well short of recent precedent in FTAs it has agreed with other sovereign countries.

“This considerably reduces the practical value of the zero tariff zero quota aspiration we both share.

“There are also significant differences of principle in other areas. For example we will not make progress on the so called "level playing field" and the governance provisions until the EU drops its insistence on imposing conditions on the UK which are not found in the EU’s other trade agreements and which do not take account of the fact that we have left the EU as an independent state.

“On fisheries, the EU's mandate appears to require us to accept a continuance of the current quotas agreed under the Common Fisheries Policy. We will only be able to make progress here on the basis of the reality that the UK will have the right to control access to its waters at the end of this year.

“We now need to move forward in a constructive fashion. The UK remains committed to a deal with a Free Trade Agreement at its core. We look forward to negotiating constructively in the next Round beginning on 11 May and to finding a balanced overall solution which reflects the political realities on both sides.”

"We support high standards. But there is no need for novel and unprecedented "level playing field" rules, for example tying us to EU laws, or a role for the EU Court. What the EU proposes is unlike anything agreed in other such FTAs and we will not agree to it here."

"Finally, we are ready to work to agree a fisheries agreement which reflects our rights under international law to control our own waters, & provides for annual negotiations over access based on scientific principles. We won't agree to continuing the Common Fisheries Policy."

Cough, cough!

WTF were Cameron and May playing at......and what were their motivations - more EU megapayoffs like Kinnock , Mandelson , Blair etc?

John Tee
John Tee
25 April, 2020 10:07
A good update....

K-Nut
Bod
19 May, 2020 20:12
New additions to zero tariff trade

"The British government published Tuesday the outlines of a new post-Brexit tariff regime that could potentially lead to a fall in the price of thousands of products, including Christmas trees, cocoa and fridges.
The Department for International Trade said the new regime will see tariffs eliminated on 62 billion pounds ($76 billion) of imports. Called the U.K. Global Tariff, it will apply to all countries that the U.K. does not have a trade agreement with."

The cheaper Christmas trees gets my vote


thumbs down

K-Nut
Bod
20 May, 2020 09:51
Frost's letter to Barnier in full

What's not to like ?

DanWiley
DanWiley
20 May, 2020 10:06
That its a fantasy internal PR stunt rather than a letter attempting to make any progress with the EU at all? Can you see anyone at the EU going "they've got a point, we are negotiating rather hard here."

It's clearly not baffling why the EU is doing this. They are pushing their substantial advantage. Why wouldn't they? Everybody else we negotiate with will.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
20 May, 2020 10:39
The UK is now an economic wasteland so our bargaining position with the world is much weaker than before.

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
20 May, 2020 11:01
Quote:
DanWiley
That its a fantasy internal PR stunt rather than a letter attempting to make any progress with the EU at all? Can you see anyone at the EU going "they've got a point, we are negotiating rather hard here."
It's clearly not baffling why the EU is doing this. They are pushing their substantial advantage. Why wouldn't they? Everybody else we negotiate with will.

Speaking to people in Brussels, this is not the take they have (regarding the letter). Lots of concern that commission doesn't have flexibility in mandate and that won't be resolved if Britain 'cedes the pen' to the EU i.e. some muscular diplomacy is needed. It could, of course, backfire but the alternative wasn't go to work either.

Of course, the EU will ask for what it wants, as will the UK. Both parties will then find justification for their position but it doesn't change the basic fact they want what they want.

It is also the case that no deal is closer to the UK objectives than the EU ones. Their demands won't be possible in future negotiations (and they'll compete like they would have anyway).

If you've accepted the cost of disruption then losing autonomy is a high price to pay for a some tariffs and a few bells and whistles, especially when constraints on autonomy reduce your ability to compete to make up the costs of the disruption - the EU didn't propose it for nice reasons...

Of course, for a minority, whatever deal will never be acceptable, just as leaving never was. They would pay almost any cost for a closer relationship and therefore this argument carries no weight. But that's not the gov's position and evidence suggests that won't ever be their position.



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

DanWiley
DanWiley
20 May, 2020 11:30
Quote:
The Bear
It is also the case that no deal is closer to the UK objectives than the EU ones.

Really? I'm not seeing that from their reactions. Moreover, if you take out the desire for economic suicide, its really not aligned with our goal at all. It puts us deep in the @#$%&. It's rather unfortunate for them.

Quote:
The Bear
Of course, for a minority, whatever deal will never be acceptable, just as leaving never was.

True, this is still a stupid thing to do from what I can see and no the sort of deal we come up with, unless it practically makes no difference, probably isn't going to change that opinion.

Quote:
The Bear
They would pay almost any cost for a closer relationship and therefore this argument carries no weight.

For practically zero cost we could return to the economically beneficial position of being in the EU. The big problem with that is calming down the people who have been sold a pup.

K-Nut
Bod
20 May, 2020 15:14
Quote:
DanWiley
Quote:
The Bear
It is also the case that no deal is closer to the UK objectives than the EU ones.

Really? I'm not seeing that from their reactions. Moreover, if you take out the desire for economic suicide, its really not aligned with our goal at all. It puts us deep in the @#$%&. It's rather unfortunate for them.

Who's reactions?



Quote:
The Bear
Of course, for a minority, whatever deal will never be acceptable, just as leaving never was.

True, this is still a stupid thing to do from what I can see and no the sort of deal we come up with, unless it practically makes no difference, probably isn't going to change that opinion.

Not too sure what this ejaculation is about

Quote:
The Bear
They would pay almost any cost for a closer relationship and therefore this argument carries no weight.

For practically zero cost we could return to the economically beneficial position of being in the EU. The big problem with that is calming down the people who have been sold a pup.

There has never been an economically beneficial position delivered from EU membership for UK

DanWiley
DanWiley
20 May, 2020 15:50
I feel happy ignoring you if you really believe that.

K-Nut
Bod
20 May, 2020 16:01
Quote:
DanWiley
I feel happy ignoring you if you really believe that.

Thanks Dan, your grace and good humour is appreciated and commendable - unlike some others of your belief since 2016.
(Sm153)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/05/2020 16:02 by Bod.

John Tee
John Tee
20 May, 2020 18:45
Im happy to start with a position whereby the U.k gets the same considerations offered in other Free Trade Agreements...why on earth would we not want that..
And why wouldnt the E.U agree to deals they've signed elsewhere.

K-Nut
Bod
20 May, 2020 21:11
Conclusions of #1 of UK/USA FTA

A real emphasis on opening up options for SMEs is really fantastic news.This is listed first on the Secretary of State's report to Parliament - linked below article.

"Both sides also set out a mutual commitment to creating new opportunities for businesses on both sides of the Atlantic and to delivering benefits for workers, consumers and farmers. This includes the confirmation that both sides will quickly pursue a standalone SME Chapter and will continue the UK-US SME Dialogue."

Not once, not on a single occasion have I heard a single line of dialogue mentioning SME importance across nearly 4 years of discussions with Bruxelles. Absolutely weird. Don't you reckon?
Why not?

The Globalist EU only interested in Big State and Big Corporations? Barriers not Free Trade? Protectionism not Competition?

Ho Hum


(Sm72)

DanWiley
DanWiley
20 May, 2020 21:19
"The Globalist EU only interested in Big State and Big Corporations? Barriers not Free Trade? Protectionism not Competition?"

Right... Exhibit 2, the US.

K-Nut
Bod
20 May, 2020 21:54
Quote:
DanWiley
"The Globalist EU only interested in Big State and Big Corporations? Barriers not Free Trade? Protectionism not Competition?"
Right... Exhibit 2, the US.

I think, if you've studied the trajectory of US over the last near on 4 years that their focus is definitely anything but Globalist.
You!re thinking Obama/Clinton et al.

(Sm72)

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
20 May, 2020 21:57
Checks on goods crossing the Irish Sea despite explicit denials from Boris. Anyone remotely surprised?

[www.theguardian.com]



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

K-Nut
Bod
20 May, 2020 22:45

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
20 May, 2020 23:18
Quote:

"There should also be regulatory checks on the standards of goods. This is to ensure no sub-EU standard phones, TVs or toys, for instance, that could be permissible in the UK post-Brexit, enter the European single market (the Republic of Ireland) via Northern Ireland. The UK has said such checks will not be done at the border but in the market with spot checks in shops and warehouses, for example."

And no agreement yet on tariffs and declaration forms.

[www.theguardian.com]



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

K-Nut
Bod
21 May, 2020 07:40
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:

"There should also be regulatory checks on the standards of goods. This is to ensure no sub-EU standard phones, TVs or toys, for instance, that could be permissible in the UK post-Brexit, enter the European single market (the Republic of Ireland) via Northern Ireland. The UK has said such checks will not be done at the border but in the market with spot checks in shops and warehouses, for example."

And no agreement yet on tariffs and declaration forms.

[www.theguardian.com]

Indeed, it's called Trading Standards

It applies also in Scotland also regarding traceability of alcoholic drinks which have varied tax levels with England, or the booze cruise traders who bring in non-compliant products.
It's nothing new.

(Sm72)

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
21 May, 2020 09:45
It appears to me the Eurozone are patently not interested in any sort of negotiation, just want to enforce their laws and regulations on the UK by bully boy tactics and not giving us any respect as a nation. They think they can railroad us into a submissive position (like they did with Cameron and Theresa May) but with the majority the Conservative leavers have, I believe Boris and his cohorts are made of sterner stuff and unless the Europeans do concede several points (which they have already done to other nations), we will be off and they want get another penny out of us. Hooray I say.



Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.

The Jink Joseph.

Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

DanWiley
DanWiley
21 May, 2020 10:18
We won't be off anywhere. Regardless of what happens we'll want a trading relationship with Europe and we'll spend years developing it.

"want<sic> get another penny out of us."

We just borrowed £300 billion in 3 months. We have a GDP of £2trillion. We export £291 billion to the EU. The NHS alone costs us £120billion. Being in the single market is estimated to be worth £90billion.

Has the penny not dropped yet that £8billion a year is a tiny amount for a government?

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
21 May, 2020 10:23
Oh no we are not reopening the 2016 debate again. Perhaps I should resurrect the original thread and merge it with this one! winking smiley



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
21 May, 2020 11:12
Im a remainer, but I can't be bothered with this any more.

My response to any brexit news is: Whatever!

Economically we are totally @#$%& with or without brexit

K-Nut
Bod
21 May, 2020 11:40
A neutral perspective from Japan

"Fishermen from France, the Netherlands, Denmark and other EU members catch 40 percent of the entire EU fisheries haul in Britain’s waters....................If the EU fails to reach an agreement with Britain by the year’s end, quotas for EU member states may fall to zero in 2021."

"The EU’s largest export item to Britain is automobiles, valued at £46.5 billion, or 2.6 times larger than Britain’s auto exports to the EU at £17.4 billion. The EU’s auto trade surplus of £28.1 billion accounts for 30 percent of its total trade surplus. Failure to conclude an FTA with the U.K. will impose a 10 percent tariff on the auto exports. It is the EU that wants to maintain free trade with Britain..........................If the Britain-EU talks break down and the U.K. launches an FTA with Japan, EU auto exports to Britain will decline under the weight of a 10 percent tariff."

"The EU has effectively blocked beef imports from the U.S. and Australia by using the special rate tariff. In the event Britain-EU talks break down, can French beef compete fairly with U.S. or Australian beef in the U.K. market on the level playing field where the same tariff prevails? In addition, when an FTA between Britain and the U.S. enters into force, tariffs on U.S. exports to Britain will be abolished, while high tariffs will be imposed on EU exports to Britain. "



And you continue to argue
"Has the penny not dropped yet that £8billion a year is a tiny amount for a government?"

The above facts and the other more extensive details contained in the full article ( well worth a full read) might lead any logical and balanced negotiator from either side on the UK/EU negotiation table to conclude, that there could even be a reasoned argument , over and above any trade agreement - there is a need for EU to pay for access to the UK market ? Wouldn't you say?

(Just like membership of Bath FC (RFU) 1865 back in the day, you are nominated and seconded by existing member as a good sort to join, after committee vetting you are accepted and allowed full club access and enjoyment of facilities as long as you abide by the rules, pay in initial entry fee, and agree to pay any future membership fee, on an annual basis , at a rate determined by the committee to continue enjoying full club access and facilities use - does that analogy work/)

After the ££££s costs of the Covid crisis are finally totted up, I can't see any rational UK Govt ceding any competitive advantage relating in any way to value benefits for the UK economy and the citizens that dwell therein.
Especially given the trumpeted statements and intent of the EU from the outset that any EU/UK deal would be far worse for UK than EU membership.


Competitive advantage also includes generating an environment where Companies will invest and spend to enhance trage and employment prospects

So, logically, the UK/US trade deal delivers a market of just over 400 million, forgetting options in the future to add on Canada/Aus/NZ/Japan/India etc which, as it stands, the moribund, doctrinal EU will never deliver as long as the sun rises every morning.

Even a thick uneducated Wiltshire Moonraker yokel like me gets it.........................

(Sm72)

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
21 May, 2020 12:26
Welcome back Bodthumbs down

DanWiley
DanWiley
21 May, 2020 13:48
Quote:
bod
So, logically, the UK/US trade deal delivers a market of just over 400 million

Is that a typo, I can't check you're reference doesn't seem to say anything about it, because that sounds like a tiny market.

Quote:
bod
Even a thick uneducated Wiltshire Moonraker yokel like me gets it.........................

You really don't. Either that or you just making it up. We're losing completely unrestricted access to markets worth many times more than the ones you're citing and hoping to replace them with restrictive trade deals that will do as much damage to our industries as we'll gain from them.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
21 May, 2020 14:23
Quote:
woodpecker
Im a remainer, but I can't be bothered with this any more.
My response to any brexit news is: Whatever!

Economically we are totally @#$%& with or without brexit

+1

I actually thought Brexit might hurt us during the coronavirus crisis, but the EU nations have adopted a me first screw you attitude to each other so don't think we missed much.

K-Nut
Bod
21 May, 2020 16:46
Quote:
DanWiley
Quote:
bod
So, logically, the UK/US trade deal delivers a market of just over 400 million

Is that a typo, I can't check you're reference doesn't seem to say anything about it, because that sounds like a tiny market.

Quote:
bod
Even a thick uneducated Wiltshire Moonraker yokel like me gets it.........................

You really don't. Either that or you just making it up. We're losing completely unrestricted access to markets worth many times more than the ones you're citing and hoping to replace them with restrictive trade deals that will do as much damage to our industries as we'll gain from them.

You've found this whole Brexit process very challenging I feel DW, and still cling to the hope that the EU-Emperor still has a spare pair of pyjamas hanging in the airing cupboard?

It seems clear he doesn't possess as much as a pot to pi$$ in.

The further away the UK is from the collapse of the ECB when that implodes and passes all the debts directly back to the € participants the better we'll be.

Last week the German Constitutional High court voted against and overturned ECJ monetary rulings and authority. (You do know this don't you DW, it's worthwhile being informed to make balance judgements I find)
German Constitutional Court rules against ECJ

The "EU" doesn't have any money or produce anything of its own, it's a Trade Association that has morphed over the years to an intransigent controlling cult , a bit like the Scientologists.

The EU leeches off it's member states and does not allow them to question the wisdom of the Politbureau or change the decision makers in a recognisably democratic manner when they screw up. (Unless you're Germany now, given the above ruling)

You'll be banging on about the massive significance of roaming charges and Erasmus exchange study programmes next?

I'll sit back quietly and chew my straw, content in my ignorance and stupidity, and carry on trading across Europe when its worthwhile.

However the commercial returns will increasingly be with US, and the massive new opportunities there, and even more importantly, establishing tariff free commercial activities in Sub-Saharan Africa where the +% returns will be far more in line with the requirements of the big investors. The clever money (that which funds your pensions) will not be wasting their time on the recessive, retracting markets full of the bags of rats all chasing and fighting over the same diminishing, over-regulated cake in Europe.

You do understand the difference between a free market and a protectionist cartel?

One keeps you lean, innovative and efficient, the other makes you flabby, morose, entitled,lazy and unfit for purpose.

I really do get it.

(Sm72)

DanWiley
DanWiley
21 May, 2020 16:53
Quote:
BoD
I'll sit back quietly and chew my straw

No you won't, you'll spend hours digging up articles to re-enforce your prejudice. Then you'll spam them all on here and post hackneyed memes as if they prove your point.

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
21 May, 2020 16:57
Quote:
DanWiley
Quote:
BoD
I'll sit back quietly and chew my straw

No you won't, you'll spend hours digging up articles to re-enforce your prejudice. Then you'll spam them all on here and post hackneyed memes as if they prove your point.

I dont think Bod was present for the original 4 years of brexit debate, you can have it now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 21/05/2020 16:58 by woodpecker.

DanWiley
DanWiley
21 May, 2020 17:06
I'm aware of the irony.

K-Nut
Bod
21 May, 2020 17:13
Quote:
DanWiley
Quote:
BoD
I'll sit back quietly and chew my straw

No you won't, you'll spend hours digging up articles to re-enforce your prejudice. Then you'll spam them all on here and post hackneyed memes as if they prove your point.

How long did it take to reference an article from the Irish Times from last week, which I tend to read daily anyway to try and develop some perspective across the arguments?
You were aware of this judgement weren't you? Weren't you???? If not, why not?
What prejudice?
That's an irrational concept.

(Sm72)

John Tee
John Tee
21 May, 2020 18:49
lol lol. That is the homework set for tonight...

MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k
21 May, 2020 19:39
I think this Bod/DW Brexit debate will run and run; I look forward to dipping in and out in the years ahead. 4yr since the referendum next month though and as far as I'm aware the sky hasn't fallen in. In fact they are much clearer as a consequence of C-19...



Adopted players: 2019/20 T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
21 May, 2020 23:48
I certainly see that the arrival of Covid-19 has seen the EU members doing their own thing first and devil take the hind most to every other country. The German court ruling certainly confirmed this which started with Italy being left out in the cold initially when the pendemic kicked off bigbtime there. The main initial help came from Russia and China if I recall rightly, not from their fellow member states.

That is where the idea of the coalition of differing states at different times in their development just will never work and when we leave, I just wonder how long it is before another country or two might decide to jump ship as well.



Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.

The Jink Joseph.

Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k
28 May, 2020 11:32
Well this is good news for the people of Sunderland - Nissan backs UK plant, BBC...



Adopted players: 2019/20 T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
03 June, 2020 13:30
The direction of travel with China and the general mess in the USA with Trump in charge is not very reassuring with regard to post brexit trade

K-Nut
Bod
03 June, 2020 15:06
Quote:
woodpecker
The direction of travel with China and the general mess in the USA with Trump in charge is not very reassuring with regard to post brexit trade

Why?

(Sm3)

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
07 June, 2020 05:52
Johnson now renegimg on food standards to get a US deal. Depressingly predictable. Let's hope the Cabinet remember the manifesto and develop a backbone. Small hope.

[www.theguardian.com]



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

rally
rally
07 June, 2020 10:04
Farming Today (Radio 4 morning of 6th June) played recording of 2017 Environment Food and Rural Affairs Committee chair Neil Parish asking DEFRA head Michael Gove:

(paraphrased and after various statements from Gove )...we are about to agree a trade deal with the US but a sticking point is whether we accept chlorinated chicken (CHC)...are you telling me that this will hold up the whole trade deal?...you (Gove) are going to put that on the record…

Gove answered ‘yes’ - Parish: we will hold you to it...(muted laughter from Committee)

On same topic of CHC:

Theresa Villers (when DEFRA secretary): no way CHC/hormone treated beef…

Current DEFRA head George Eustace went further and was quoted as saying (when Farming Minister) : US can kiss goodbye to deal (if insist on CHC) and join back of queue.

John Tee
John Tee
07 June, 2020 10:08
Not what the fuss is about.
Make it that all meat food sources are declared on the food package and therefore the buyer determines whether they want it..

JFPC
JFPC
07 June, 2020 10:26
Quote:
John Tee
Not what the fuss is about.
Make it that all meat food sources are declared on the food package and therefore the buyer determines whether they want it..

The US has been vociferously anti labelling of origin on food for a while and will tie it into any trade deal.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
07 June, 2020 10:41
Quote:
John Tee
Not what the fuss is about.
Make it that all meat food sources are declared on the food package and therefore the buyer determines whether they want it..

Agree, but I don’t trust Cummings to permit labelling of US imported meat.

I wouldn’t touch US chicken/beef with a barge pole given the choice and wouldn’t have thought anyone with half a brain cell would.

John Tee
John Tee
07 June, 2020 11:21
People are going to have to be more circumspect in the product they buy...
if that means the meat is not defined...and i would have thought a marketing team would be all over that, then assume the worst and dont buy it.

We do it already with red meats, imv ...
if you dont trust something, dont trust it...

DanWiley
DanWiley
07 June, 2020 11:31
The economy of scale is the problem. The meat that is held to higher standards wont be competitive, most people won't buy the more expensive option, in part due to a lack of choice, and the scale slides up again.

Pretty soon buying must held to our current standards will be a luxury, great if you're wealthy, buy not an option for most. At which point this cheap meat will probably rack up it's price a bit.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
07 June, 2020 12:12
The problem we face is historically the Tories don’t like the countryside and put little value on our farming. They probably already have their eye on building on the UK farms that will be forced out of business by cheap US imports.

The only way to prevent it is clear marking of poor quality, dangerous and cheap US meat coupled with ad campaigns highlighting the dangers. Consumer pressure could then force US imports off our food shelves.

DanWiley
DanWiley
07 June, 2020 12:40
Or just have standards that prevent the sale of substandard food?

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
07 June, 2020 13:48
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
John Tee
Not what the fuss is about.
Make it that all meat food sources are declared on the food package and therefore the buyer determines whether they want it..

Agree, but I don’t trust Cummings to permit labelling of US imported meat.

I wouldn’t touch US chicken/beef with a barge pole given the choice and wouldn’t have thought anyone with half a brain cell would.

You have to state country of origin, whats the problem?

"You must label your meat, fish or seafood product with its country or place of origin if you’re selling it to the final consumer or mass caterer." (Source)



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2020 15:09 by shipwrecked.

DanWiley
DanWiley
07 June, 2020 14:21
It baffling to me why anyone would see now as the time to drop standards in the food production chain.

K-Nut
Bod
07 June, 2020 19:33
Quote:
DanWiley
It baffling to me why anyone would see now as the time to drop standards in the food production chain.

Indeed
The sooner live animal exports are banned the better.

(Sm72)

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
07 June, 2020 20:25
It's a weird one. I know chlorine washed Chicken is totemic but I'm not sure our campylobacter infested chicken is really much better...

The problem is not really the labelling of raw meat but the processed food market - which is already pretty bad.

I don't want people to have to pay more for meat but they shouldn't be incentivised to eat food that depreciates our own food producers and sets lower standards.

JFPC
JFPC
07 June, 2020 20:31
Quote:
The Bear
It's a weird one. I know chlorine washed Chicken is totemic but I'm not sure our campylobacter infested chicken is really much better...
Ours is sufficiently better to not need chlorine washing. Also our slaughterhouses and packhouses are better run (not saying an awful lot I know) with higher hygiene standards

The problem is not really the labelling of raw meat but the processed food market - which is already pretty bad.

I don't want people to have to pay more for meat but they shouldn't be incentivised to eat food that depreciates our own food producers and sets lower standards.

K-Nut
Bod
07 June, 2020 20:54
Quote:
JFPC
Quote:
The Bear
It's a weird one. I know chlorine washed Chicken is totemic but I'm not sure our campylobacter infested chicken is really much better...
Ours is sufficiently better to not need chlorine washing. Also our slaughterhouses and packhouses are better run (not saying an awful lot I know) with higher hygiene standards albeit allowing and promoting painfully tortuous, brutal slaughter techniques which should be outlawed.

The problem is not really the labelling of raw meat but the processed food market - which is already pretty bad.

I don't want people to have to pay more for meat but they shouldn't be incentivised to eat food that depreciates our own food producers and sets lower standards.

Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
07 June, 2020 21:30
Quote:
Bod
Quote:
JFPC
Quote:
The Bear
It's a weird one. I know chlorine washed Chicken is totemic but I'm not sure our campylobacter infested chicken is really much better...
Ours is sufficiently better to not need chlorine washing. Also our slaughterhouses and packhouses are better run (not saying an awful lot I know) with higher hygiene standards albeit allowing and promoting painfully tortuous, brutal slaughter techniques which should be outlawed.

The problem is not really the labelling of raw meat but the processed food market - which is already pretty bad.

I don't want people to have to pay more for meat but they shouldn't be incentivised to eat food that depreciates our own food producers and sets lower standards.

FTFY Bod

European food slaughter standards are supposed to be 'humane'. Certainly UK slaughtermen have to abide by them by law. They are not, for instance, allowed to string an animal up and slit its throat and let it bleed to death.

K-Nut
Bod
09 June, 2020 09:24
More positive news and developments

Membership of the 11-member CPTPP, a trade agreement that stretches from Australia to Chile, would significantly improve access for UK businesses to markets across the Asia-Pacific region.


(Sm160)

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
09 June, 2020 09:27
Quote:
Bod
More positive news and developments
Membership of the 11-member CPTPP, a trade agreement that stretches from Australia to Chile, would significantly improve access for UK businesses to markets across the Asia-Pacific region.


(Sm160)

We already had agreements with all of them as a member of the EU. The question is, can we negotiate a better deal alone. I'll start holding my breath now, shall i?



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

John Tee
John Tee
09 June, 2020 13:42
Quote:
Mike the Taxi
Quote:
Bod
Quote:
JFPC
Quote:
The Bear
It's a weird one. I know chlorine washed Chicken is totemic but I'm not sure our campylobacter infested chicken is really much better...
Ours is sufficiently better to not need chlorine washing. Also our slaughterhouses and packhouses are better run (not saying an awful lot I know) with higher hygiene standards albeit allowing and promoting painfully tortuous, brutal slaughter techniques which should be outlawed.

The problem is not really the labelling of raw meat but the processed food market - which is already pretty bad.

I don't want people to have to pay more for meat but they shouldn't be incentivised to eat food that depreciates our own food producers and sets lower standards.

FTFY Bod

European food slaughter standards are supposed to be 'humane'. Certainly UK slaughtermen have to abide by them by law. They are not, for instance, allowed to string an animal up and slit its throat and let it bleed to death.

But do they stun them ..in order to comply with religious beliefs.
Personally i think 'humane' trumps religion here, but depends if actually killing for meat is a definition of humane.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
09 June, 2020 17:59
Quote:
John Tee
Quote:
Mike the Taxi
Quote:
Bod
Quote:
JFPC
Quote:
The Bear
It's a weird one. I know chlorine washed Chicken is totemic but I'm not sure our campylobacter infested chicken is really much better...
Ours is sufficiently better to not need chlorine washing. Also our slaughterhouses and packhouses are better run (not saying an awful lot I know) with higher hygiene standards albeit allowing and promoting painfully tortuous, brutal slaughter techniques which should be outlawed.

The problem is not really the labelling of raw meat but the processed food market - which is already pretty bad.

I don't want people to have to pay more for meat but they shouldn't be incentivised to eat food that depreciates our own food producers and sets lower standards.

FTFY Bod

European food slaughter standards are supposed to be 'humane'. Certainly UK slaughtermen have to abide by them by law. They are not, for instance, allowed to string an animal up and slit its throat and let it bleed to death.

But do they stun them ..in order to comply with religious beliefs.
Personally i think 'humane' trumps religion here, but depends if actually killing for meat is a definition of humane.

Agree, we should not pander to religions when it comes to animal welfare.

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
09 June, 2020 19:57
Quote:
JFPC

Ours is sufficiently better to not need chlorine washing.

Ours is sufficiently better that we have to send health warnings not to wash raw chicken and pack it bags which you cook it in.

There's plenty of reasons to boast about our superior farming techniques but chlorine washed chickens really isn't it.



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
09 June, 2020 20:07
Quote:
The Bear
Quote:
JFPC

Ours is sufficiently better to not need chlorine washing.

Ours is sufficiently better that we have to send health warnings not to wash raw chicken and pack it bags which you cook it in.

There's plenty of reasons to boast about our superior farming techniques but chlorine washed chickens really isn't it.

At the end of the day we don’t need inferior US meat in the UK, but as long as it’s clearly labelled imported from the US we can avoid their rubbish.

Restaurants and cafes should also be required to state where their meat is coming from.

I suspect however that Boris will allow US imports without clear labelling because that’s what his mate Trump wants.

DanWiley
DanWiley
09 June, 2020 20:11
I suspect people will buy the cheapest without looking, making the higher standard meat even more expensive if the is a market for it at all.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
09 June, 2020 20:13
for those who would like facts rather than opinions...

Against:

[www.soilassociation.org].

For:

[www.chickencheck.in].

I'd be more worried about the antibiotics in their beef tbh.



[Actively seeking a new adoptee: until I'm assigned one I'm going for Joshua Matavesi]

Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
09 June, 2020 20:15
“Never wash your raw poultry,” says Donald Schaffner, Ph.D., a professor of food science at Rutgers University. “It doesn’t do much to remove bacteria. What it will do is take the bacteria from that bird and spread it around your kitchen.”. Cooking until the middle is at 165 degrees C will kill of most bacteria, but I'm not sure what it will do to Chlorine?

Apart from that, washing/rinsing chicken stops it going brown and crispy so well.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
09 June, 2020 20:18
Quote:
DanWiley
I suspect people will buy the cheapest without looking, making the higher standard meat even more expensive if the is a market for it at all.

We definitely higher tariffs on the US junk to stop that happening.

DanWiley
DanWiley
09 June, 2020 20:26
Yeah. We're definitely in a position to make such a demand.

JFPC
JFPC
09 June, 2020 21:01
Quote:
The Bear
Quote:
JFPC

Ours is sufficiently better to not need chlorine washing.

Ours is sufficiently better that we have to send health warnings not to wash raw chicken and pack it bags which you cook it in.

There's plenty of reasons to boast about our superior farming techniques but chlorine washed chickens really isn't it.

That wasn't meant as a boast, I expect I've spent more time in intensive chicken sheds than most people posting on here and lets just say I don't eat cheap chicken, wherever it comes from.

That said, American standards for intensive chickens are lower, and their slaughterhouses and meat packing plants are generally less well regulated than British ones. (I have also worked in an abattoir in my younger days, admittedly processing beef not chicken, but still relevant to knowing how they are generally run).

K-Nut
Bod
09 June, 2020 21:35
Quote:
rally
Farming Today (Radio 4 morning of 6th June) played recording of 2017 Environment Food and Rural Affairs Committee chair Neil Parish asking DEFRA head Michael Gove:
(paraphrased and after various statements from Gove )...we are about to agree a trade deal with the US but a sticking point is whether we accept chlorinated chicken (CHC)...are you telling me that this will hold up the whole trade deal?...you (Gove) are going to put that on the record…

Gove answered ‘yes’ - Parish: we will hold you to it...(muted laughter from Committee)

On same topic of CHC:

Theresa Villers (when DEFRA secretary): no way CHC/hormone treated beef…

Current DEFRA head George Eustace went further and was quoted as saying (when Farming Minister) : US can kiss goodbye to deal (if insist on CHC) and join back of queue.

If you're worried about chlorine treated foods then steer clear of the prepacked bagged salads and salads included in your major brand fast food meals. At least with the meat the chemical residue will be cooked off and not directly ingested.

(Sm72)

JFPC
JFPC
09 June, 2020 22:07
Quote:
Bod
Quote:
rally
Farming Today (Radio 4 morning of 6th June) played recording of 2017 Environment Food and Rural Affairs Committee chair Neil Parish asking DEFRA head Michael Gove:
(paraphrased and after various statements from Gove )...we are about to agree a trade deal with the US but a sticking point is whether we accept chlorinated chicken (CHC)...are you telling me that this will hold up the whole trade deal?...you (Gove) are going to put that on the record…

Gove answered ‘yes’ - Parish: we will hold you to it...(muted laughter from Committee)

On same topic of CHC:

Theresa Villers (when DEFRA secretary): no way CHC/hormone treated beef…

Current DEFRA head George Eustace went further and was quoted as saying (when Farming Minister) : US can kiss goodbye to deal (if insist on CHC) and join back of queue.

If you're worried about chlorine treated foods then steer clear of the prepacked bagged salads and salads included in your major brand fast food meals. At least with the meat the chemical residue will be cooked off and not directly ingested.

(Sm72)

It's not the chlorine itself that's the problem, it's the poor animal husbandry and lax standards in the slaughterhouses and processing plants that mean you need to use chlorine as a carp sticking plaster to try and clean it all up.

K-Nut
Bod
09 June, 2020 22:49
Indeed JFPC
And many major European clothesware retailers procure millions of items from sources in E.Africa and Far East every year, where the child labour returns to the production lines to sew on buttons as soon as the Inspectors from the retailers have left the building after their yearly visit.
Those audits will be even less frequent now I guess.

The major welfare issue now is, most of these factories are now closed since the clothes retailers aren't open, so who knows how they survive?

(Sm3)

JFPC
JFPC
10 June, 2020 09:36
Quote:
Bod
Indeed JFPC
And many major European clothesware retailers procure millions of items from sources in E.Africa and Far East every year, where the child labour returns to the production lines to sew on buttons as soon as the Inspectors from the retailers have left the building after their yearly visit.
Those audits will be even less frequent now I guess.

The major welfare issue now is, most of these factories are now closed since the clothes retailers aren't open, so who knows how they survive?

(Sm3)

Indeed, it's one of the reasons that, when buying clothes, I buy British made first and foremost, European if I can't find British and visit the charity shops before even beginning to consider mass produced garments.

John Tee
John Tee
10 June, 2020 13:55
Ive been doing that for ages but gets difficult. My motive back then was, say, a climbing jacket. Berghaus amongst others, made uk kit.
They were expensive.
Now, most names are high st, which actually means they are made in the far east but retain western prices.
I dont mind top dollar for a jacket etc... but not if they pay pennies for a garment for manufacturer. If the price is for western salaries, i understand, for huge profit at the expense of impoverished workers, er, no.

I believe covid and China will make people think about where their product comes from and people will need to get their head around paying more to have things made in the west.

JFPC
JFPC
10 June, 2020 14:15
Quote:
John Tee
Ive been doing that for ages but gets difficult. My motive back then was, say, a climbing jacket. Berghaus amongst others, made uk kit.
They were expensive.
Now, most names are high st, which actually means they are made in the far east but retain western prices.
I dont mind top dollar for a jacket etc... but not if they pay pennies for a garment for manufacturer. If the price is for western salaries, i understand, for huge profit at the expense of impoverished workers, er, no.

I believe covid and China will make people think about where their product comes from and people will need to get their head around paying more to have things made in the west.

I hope so, more and more of my clothes are coming from a charity shop as it is getting harder and harder to find British or European made.

K-Nut
Bod
11 June, 2020 20:35
More good news

"Unilever ends joint Anglo-Dutch structure to set up single London base in U-turn on scrapped Holland HQ debacle.
Company denies Brexit was a factor, says move will make it more capable of acting fast to do deals"

(Sm160)

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
12 June, 2020 01:56
Quote:
Bod
More good news
"Unilever ends joint Anglo-Dutch structure to set up single London base in U-turn on scrapped Holland HQ debacle.
Company denies Brexit was a factor, says move will make it more capable of acting fast to do deals"

(Sm160)

Or maybe something to do with the fact that their UK institutional shareholders kicked up a huge stink when they realized they'd have to sell because Unilever wouldn't be in the FTSE100 any more? Nothing to do with efficiency, everything to do with fat, cushy bonuses all round. Twas always thus.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

BBandW
BBandW
12 June, 2020 11:39
Quite scary to think that the same team of Cummings, Johnson et al that so incompetently led to the UK having the highest death toll in Europe, are exactly the same team in charge of the Brexit discussions.

No reason not to suspect that the results will be equally as bad.

gaz59
gaz59
12 June, 2020 12:07
Quote:
BBandW
Quite scary to think that the same team of Cummings, Johnson et al that so incompetently led to the UK having the highest death toll in Europe, are exactly the same team in charge of the Brexit discussions.
No reason not to suspect that the results will be equally as bad.

Entirely depends on what result you are looking for. If it is over the cliff edge, crash out then it is exactly the team designed to achieve that result and precisely the team selected by Cummings

A fair, balanced, win-win, full trade agreement with important concessions for both parties through genuine, respectful negotiations then forget it

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
12 June, 2020 14:32
Everyone has been going on about it for so long, I'm starting to look forward to an exciting no deal, surely it can't be much worse than now. When is it end Jan?

Apparently the stockpiles for no deal have all been used up. Imagine how hard it will be to get toilet roll if we get a second wave of covid in winter and that!

Where's that Groupon offer?

John Tee
John Tee
12 June, 2020 22:51
well, no extention and Barnier looking like he is marginalised as Heads are meeting monday.

gaz59
gaz59
12 June, 2020 22:56
Quote:
John Tee
well, no extention and Barnier looking like he is marginalised as Heads are meeting monday.

But Barnier is only the negotiator appointed by the constituent countries albeit via the EU structure

He isn't marginalised. He may be given a different brief

K-Nut
Bod
12 June, 2020 23:26
Quote:
John Tee
well, no extention and Barnier looking like he is marginalised as Heads are meeting monday.

That'll take the 27 about 3 months to concur unless Germany decides otherwise, and to be fair, the Visegrad group and most of E.Europe aren't too keen on pi$$ing off UK given the amount of ForEx repatriated from their compatriots working here, and they despise Barnier.

(Sm72)

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
12 June, 2020 23:31
Quote:
gaz59
Quote:
John Tee
well, no extention and Barnier looking like he is marginalised as Heads are meeting monday.

But Barnier is only the negotiator appointed by the constituent countries albeit via the EU structure

He isn't marginalised. He may be given a different brief

EU in "pursues it's own interests in negotiations" shocker.

Also to be noted that UK checks on EU imports will be delayed until mid 2021. No mention of the full checks by the EU on goods going the other way.

Plus, Trump's chances in November starting to look a little shaky. Who do we negotiate with for our "world class" US deal? A Biden administration is going to be far more interested in mending fences with the EU first.

Plus, there's a global pandemic that's going to be with us for while (sorry SW, but it is).

It's all looking a touch iffy.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/06/2020 00:00 by joethefanatic.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
13 June, 2020 00:18
Quote:
Bod
Quote:
John Tee
well, no extention and Barnier looking like he is marginalised as Heads are meeting monday.

That'll take the 27 about 3 months to concur unless Germany decides otherwise, and to be fair, the Visegrad group and most of E.Europe aren't too keen on pi$$ing off UK given the amount of ForEx repatriated from their compatriots working here, and they despise Barnier.

(Sm72)

The vote of the 27 on the deal has to be unanimous to be approved. That means the deal is going to have to be very good indeed from an EU perspective. Which is not super encouraging from a UK perspective.

The EU hates us, the US has gone native and hates everyone, China doesn't even care enough to hate us. The Japanese economy has cratered. The BRICS economies are being destroyed from within by covid19.

We are walking out of the bathroom with just our d1ck in our hand at the worst time in 100 years and everyone we're trying to negotiate with in the world knows it. The kicking starts here.

I understand that HMG is planning to develop an industrial strategy. I'd be investing in clean energy, food security and rebuilding a ihgh tech manufacturing base. Take about 25 years to bear fruit.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

John Tee
John Tee
13 June, 2020 07:47
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
gaz59
Quote:
John Tee
well, no extention and Barnier looking like he is marginalised as Heads are meeting monday.

But Barnier is only the negotiator appointed by the constituent countries albeit via the EU structure

He isn't marginalised. He may be given a different brief

EU in "pursues it's own interests in negotiations" shocker.

Also to be noted that UK checks on EU imports will be delayed until mid 2021. No mention of the full checks by the EU on goods going the other way.

Plus, Trump's chances in November starting to look a little shaky. Who do we negotiate with for our "world class" US deal? A Biden administration is going to be far more interested in mending fences with the EU first.

Plus, there's a global pandemic that's going to be with us for while (sorry SW, but it is).

It's all looking a touch iffy.

Of course, so why shouldn't we protect our interests too...
UK offering no checks means the EU can recipricate....in good faith.
There you go, start of a trade deal right there..

The EU has a massive incentive to want our market and common sense would allow it, but political dogma wont...

I think the getting as far away from any more EU liabilities is an absolute must what Covid to pay for etc.

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
13 June, 2020 09:18
Quote:
joethefanatic

The vote of the 27 on the deal has to be unanimous to be approved. That means the deal is going to have to be very good indeed from an EU perspective. Which is not super encouraging from a UK perspective.

It's an argument oft made but it's a canard. Whatever agreed will be a legal document, it will not be reopened. The Walloon-ian 'concessions' on CETA were on the EU side. And if both sides want a deal they can incorporate 'ratchet' clauses.

Quote:
joethefanatic
The EU hates us, the US has gone native and hates everyone, China doesn't even care enough to hate us. The Japanese economy has cratered. The BRICS economies are being destroyed from within by covid19.
...at the worst time in 100 years and everyone we're trying to negotiate with in the world knows it. The kicking starts here.

It seems strange to think that at a time where everyone 'hates' us, is a bad time to start representing our interests and regaining our independence. In a fragmented world one of the most powerful tools you have is autonomy (however counterintuitive it seems). It is in a prosperous world where autonomy can best be traded for material security. That's not the world we're in at the moment.

Quote:
joethefanatic

I understand that HMG is planning to develop an industrial strategy. Take about 25 years to bear fruit.

Good, and even a 25 year wait is worth it. In the coming world, independence of industrial, technological and financial base will be the most important thing. Still, Id expect the neoliberal wing of the Tories or the Labour party to trade it away for a quick surge of cash or protection from domestic politics, respectively, long before it reaches fruition.



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

K-Nut
Bod
19 June, 2020 12:45

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
19 June, 2020 12:52
Quote:

Good i'm feeling more and more negative on China

K-Nut
Bod
19 June, 2020 13:14
Chins is fine, it's the CCP thta's the problem. From another report regarding the CCP decision to allow appeal to relapse :-

"In the process the CCP “lost so much that they didn’t want the world to see the panel’s reasoning,” said one knowledgeable official, quoted by Reuters.

“They were going to win something, but they were overshadowed by the big defeat they had in the main suit,” the official added.
The EU argued that the CCP heavily subsidized its industries, in particular, the steel and aluminum industries, which made its sales prices on the international market unfair.

As a result of the decision, the EU and the United States will be able to apply high “anti-dumping” tariffs to goods from the CCP, in order to protect their industries.

The CCP was accused of applying the system known as “dumping,” which offers products at a much lower price than the real one and damages the economies of the importing countries, and then takes over the market and raises prices.

Recent research shows that the CCP has infiltrated many international organizations, including the UN and the world’s major financial institutions, such as the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, and the Inter-American Development Bank.

Within this framework, the action of the World Health Organization is highlighted, accused of irregularities and complicity with the CCP in its handling of the CCP Virus pandemic, which is causing death and economic losses as it passes through the world."


(Sm3)

Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
19 June, 2020 13:45
Aluminium. The word is Aluminium.

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
19 June, 2020 14:25
Rubber shoe soles and heels!

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
19 June, 2020 14:27
Oh No..........I forgot I wasn't posting on here any more...........O blimey I've done it again!

K-Nut
Bod
19 June, 2020 17:23

MESSAGES->author
hemington
20 June, 2020 11:36
Quote:

And your point is? Apart from the fact you spend all your time online trying to find articles to fill this forum with.

K-Nut
Bod
22 June, 2020 10:47
Quote:
hemington
Quote:

And your point is? Apart from the fact you spend all your time online trying to find articles to fill this forum with.

https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--JsEVn4r1--/t_Resized%20Artwork/c_fit,g_north_west,h_954,w_954/co_ffffff,e_outline:48/co_ffffff,e_outline:inner_fill:48/co_ffffff,e_outline:48/co_ffffff,e_outline:inner_fill:48/co_bbbbbb,e_outline:3:1000/c_mpad,g_center,h_1260,w_1260/b_rgb:eeeeee/c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1552927635/production/designs/4440178_0.jpg
And?

(Sm72)

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
24 June, 2020 08:55
The pound is now an emerging market currency in all but name, according to analysts at Bank of America


[app.ft.com]

Has its upsides

gaz59
gaz59
25 June, 2020 12:55
What the eck does that mean for the average, non-currency dealing person like me, wp?

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
25 June, 2020 13:05
Quote:
gaz59
What the eck does that mean for the average, non-currency dealing person like me, wp?

To be honest I'm not qualified to say, but I dont think its a good thing..

DanWiley
DanWiley
25 June, 2020 13:09
From what I can see it means that people will tend not to use the pound as a trading currency, people won't really want it, which will further destabilize it.

For me, it feels like another indicator that economically we aren't going to be allowed at the grown-ups table any longer. But there are worrying implications, I guess this final comment sums it up:

"We believe sterling is in the process of evolving into a currency that resembles the underlying reality of the British economy: small and shrinking with a growing dual deficit problem similar to more liquid [emerging market] currencies"

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
25 June, 2020 13:15
Reflects the reality of the past, at least, 50 years.

Indeed I would say reflects the reality since the Second World War

DanWiley
DanWiley
25 June, 2020 13:24
True. I think it would be honest if Boris came out and said "Brexit is basically cementing us as a second class nation, a trajectory we were already on, but in doing so it also cuts our links with the organization that enables us to use our values to influence the world."

I don't think it will appeal to many Brexiteers though?

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