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Quote:DanWiley
That its a fantasy internal PR stunt rather than a letter attempting to make any progress with the EU at all? Can you see anyone at the EU going "they've got a point, we are negotiating rather hard here."
It's clearly not baffling why the EU is doing this. They are pushing their substantial advantage. Why wouldn't they? Everybody else we negotiate with will.
Quote:The Bear
It is also the case that no deal is closer to the UK objectives than the EU ones.
Quote:The Bear
Of course, for a minority, whatever deal will never be acceptable, just as leaving never was.
Quote:The Bear
They would pay almost any cost for a closer relationship and therefore this argument carries no weight.
Quote:DanWileyQuote:The Bear
It is also the case that no deal is closer to the UK objectives than the EU ones.
Really? I'm not seeing that from their reactions. Moreover, if you take out the desire for economic suicide, its really not aligned with our goal at all. It puts us deep in the @#$%&. It's rather unfortunate for them.
Who's reactions?
Quote:The Bear
Of course, for a minority, whatever deal will never be acceptable, just as leaving never was.
True, this is still a stupid thing to do from what I can see and no the sort of deal we come up with, unless it practically makes no difference, probably isn't going to change that opinion.
Not too sure what this ejaculation is about
Quote:The Bear
They would pay almost any cost for a closer relationship and therefore this argument carries no weight.
For practically zero cost we could return to the economically beneficial position of being in the EU. The big problem with that is calming down the people who have been sold a pup.
Quote:DanWiley
I feel happy ignoring you if you really believe that.
Quote:DanWiley
"The Globalist EU only interested in Big State and Big Corporations? Barriers not Free Trade? Protectionism not Competition?"
Right... Exhibit 2, the US.
Quote:Bod
Specific inspections were always thus for cattle
Specific inspections were always thus for certain plant and tree species
No real changes here
These movements will always be restricted regardless
Quote:joethefanaticQuote:Bod
Specific inspections were always thus for cattle
Specific inspections were always thus for certain plant and tree species
No real changes here
These movements will always be restricted regardless
"There should also be regulatory checks on the standards of goods. This is to ensure no sub-EU standard phones, TVs or toys, for instance, that could be permissible in the UK post-Brexit, enter the European single market (the Republic of Ireland) via Northern Ireland. The UK has said such checks will not be done at the border but in the market with spot checks in shops and warehouses, for example."
And no agreement yet on tariffs and declaration forms.
[www.theguardian.com]
Quote:bod
So, logically, the UK/US trade deal delivers a market of just over 400 million
Quote:bod
Even a thick uneducated Wiltshire Moonraker yokel like me gets it.........................
Quote:woodpecker
Im a remainer, but I can't be bothered with this any more.
My response to any brexit news is: Whatever!
Economically we are totally @#$%& with or without brexit
Quote:DanWileyQuote:bod
So, logically, the UK/US trade deal delivers a market of just over 400 million
Is that a typo, I can't check you're reference doesn't seem to say anything about it, because that sounds like a tiny market.
Quote:bod
Even a thick uneducated Wiltshire Moonraker yokel like me gets it.........................
You really don't. Either that or you just making it up. We're losing completely unrestricted access to markets worth many times more than the ones you're citing and hoping to replace them with restrictive trade deals that will do as much damage to our industries as we'll gain from them.
Quote:BoD
I'll sit back quietly and chew my straw
Quote:DanWileyQuote:BoD
I'll sit back quietly and chew my straw
No you won't, you'll spend hours digging up articles to re-enforce your prejudice. Then you'll spam them all on here and post hackneyed memes as if they prove your point.
Quote:DanWileyQuote:BoD
I'll sit back quietly and chew my straw
No you won't, you'll spend hours digging up articles to re-enforce your prejudice. Then you'll spam them all on here and post hackneyed memes as if they prove your point.
Quote:woodpecker
The direction of travel with China and the general mess in the USA with Trump in charge is not very reassuring with regard to post brexit trade
Quote:John Tee
Not what the fuss is about.
Make it that all meat food sources are declared on the food package and therefore the buyer determines whether they want it..
Quote:John Tee
Not what the fuss is about.
Make it that all meat food sources are declared on the food package and therefore the buyer determines whether they want it..
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:John Tee
Not what the fuss is about.
Make it that all meat food sources are declared on the food package and therefore the buyer determines whether they want it..
Agree, but I don’t trust Cummings to permit labelling of US imported meat.
I wouldn’t touch US chicken/beef with a barge pole given the choice and wouldn’t have thought anyone with half a brain cell would.
Quote:DanWiley
It baffling to me why anyone would see now as the time to drop standards in the food production chain.
Quote:The Bear
It's a weird one. I know chlorine washed Chicken is totemic but I'm not sure our campylobacter infested chicken is really much better...
Ours is sufficiently better to not need chlorine washing. Also our slaughterhouses and packhouses are better run (not saying an awful lot I know) with higher hygiene standards
The problem is not really the labelling of raw meat but the processed food market - which is already pretty bad.
I don't want people to have to pay more for meat but they shouldn't be incentivised to eat food that depreciates our own food producers and sets lower standards.
Quote:JFPCQuote:The Bear
It's a weird one. I know chlorine washed Chicken is totemic but I'm not sure our campylobacter infested chicken is really much better...
Ours is sufficiently better to not need chlorine washing. Also our slaughterhouses and packhouses are better run (not saying an awful lot I know) with higher hygiene standards albeit allowing and promoting painfully tortuous, brutal slaughter techniques which should be outlawed.
The problem is not really the labelling of raw meat but the processed food market - which is already pretty bad.
I don't want people to have to pay more for meat but they shouldn't be incentivised to eat food that depreciates our own food producers and sets lower standards.
Quote:BodQuote:JFPCQuote:The Bear
It's a weird one. I know chlorine washed Chicken is totemic but I'm not sure our campylobacter infested chicken is really much better...
Ours is sufficiently better to not need chlorine washing. Also our slaughterhouses and packhouses are better run (not saying an awful lot I know) with higher hygiene standards albeit allowing and promoting painfully tortuous, brutal slaughter techniques which should be outlawed.
The problem is not really the labelling of raw meat but the processed food market - which is already pretty bad.
I don't want people to have to pay more for meat but they shouldn't be incentivised to eat food that depreciates our own food producers and sets lower standards.
Quote:Bod
More positive news and developments
Membership of the 11-member CPTPP, a trade agreement that stretches from Australia to Chile, would significantly improve access for UK businesses to markets across the Asia-Pacific region.
Quote:Mike the TaxiQuote:BodQuote:JFPCQuote:The Bear
It's a weird one. I know chlorine washed Chicken is totemic but I'm not sure our campylobacter infested chicken is really much better...
Ours is sufficiently better to not need chlorine washing. Also our slaughterhouses and packhouses are better run (not saying an awful lot I know) with higher hygiene standards albeit allowing and promoting painfully tortuous, brutal slaughter techniques which should be outlawed.
The problem is not really the labelling of raw meat but the processed food market - which is already pretty bad.
I don't want people to have to pay more for meat but they shouldn't be incentivised to eat food that depreciates our own food producers and sets lower standards.
FTFY Bod
European food slaughter standards are supposed to be 'humane'. Certainly UK slaughtermen have to abide by them by law. They are not, for instance, allowed to string an animal up and slit its throat and let it bleed to death.
Quote:John TeeQuote:Mike the TaxiQuote:BodQuote:JFPCQuote:The Bear
It's a weird one. I know chlorine washed Chicken is totemic but I'm not sure our campylobacter infested chicken is really much better...
Ours is sufficiently better to not need chlorine washing. Also our slaughterhouses and packhouses are better run (not saying an awful lot I know) with higher hygiene standards albeit allowing and promoting painfully tortuous, brutal slaughter techniques which should be outlawed.
The problem is not really the labelling of raw meat but the processed food market - which is already pretty bad.
I don't want people to have to pay more for meat but they shouldn't be incentivised to eat food that depreciates our own food producers and sets lower standards.
FTFY Bod
European food slaughter standards are supposed to be 'humane'. Certainly UK slaughtermen have to abide by them by law. They are not, for instance, allowed to string an animal up and slit its throat and let it bleed to death.
But do they stun them ..in order to comply with religious beliefs.
Personally i think 'humane' trumps religion here, but depends if actually killing for meat is a definition of humane.
Quote:JFPC
Ours is sufficiently better to not need chlorine washing.
Quote:The BearQuote:JFPC
Ours is sufficiently better to not need chlorine washing.
Ours is sufficiently better that we have to send health warnings not to wash raw chicken and pack it bags which you cook it in.
There's plenty of reasons to boast about our superior farming techniques but chlorine washed chickens really isn't it.
Quote:DanWiley
I suspect people will buy the cheapest without looking, making the higher standard meat even more expensive if the is a market for it at all.
Quote:The BearQuote:JFPC
Ours is sufficiently better to not need chlorine washing.
Ours is sufficiently better that we have to send health warnings not to wash raw chicken and pack it bags which you cook it in.
There's plenty of reasons to boast about our superior farming techniques but chlorine washed chickens really isn't it.
Quote:rally
Farming Today (Radio 4 morning of 6th June) played recording of 2017 Environment Food and Rural Affairs Committee chair Neil Parish asking DEFRA head Michael Gove:
(paraphrased and after various statements from Gove )...we are about to agree a trade deal with the US but a sticking point is whether we accept chlorinated chicken (CHC)...are you telling me that this will hold up the whole trade deal?...you (Gove) are going to put that on the record…
Gove answered ‘yes’ - Parish: we will hold you to it...(muted laughter from Committee)
On same topic of CHC:
Theresa Villers (when DEFRA secretary): no way CHC/hormone treated beef…
Current DEFRA head George Eustace went further and was quoted as saying (when Farming Minister) : US can kiss goodbye to deal (if insist on CHC) and join back of queue.
Quote:BodQuote:rally
Farming Today (Radio 4 morning of 6th June) played recording of 2017 Environment Food and Rural Affairs Committee chair Neil Parish asking DEFRA head Michael Gove:
(paraphrased and after various statements from Gove )...we are about to agree a trade deal with the US but a sticking point is whether we accept chlorinated chicken (CHC)...are you telling me that this will hold up the whole trade deal?...you (Gove) are going to put that on the record…
Gove answered ‘yes’ - Parish: we will hold you to it...(muted laughter from Committee)
On same topic of CHC:
Theresa Villers (when DEFRA secretary): no way CHC/hormone treated beef…
Current DEFRA head George Eustace went further and was quoted as saying (when Farming Minister) : US can kiss goodbye to deal (if insist on CHC) and join back of queue.
If you're worried about chlorine treated foods then steer clear of the prepacked bagged salads and salads included in your major brand fast food meals. At least with the meat the chemical residue will be cooked off and not directly ingested.
Quote:Bod
Indeed JFPC
And many major European clothesware retailers procure millions of items from sources in E.Africa and Far East every year, where the child labour returns to the production lines to sew on buttons as soon as the Inspectors from the retailers have left the building after their yearly visit.
Those audits will be even less frequent now I guess.
The major welfare issue now is, most of these factories are now closed since the clothes retailers aren't open, so who knows how they survive?
Quote:John Tee
Ive been doing that for ages but gets difficult. My motive back then was, say, a climbing jacket. Berghaus amongst others, made uk kit.
They were expensive.
Now, most names are high st, which actually means they are made in the far east but retain western prices.
I dont mind top dollar for a jacket etc... but not if they pay pennies for a garment for manufacturer. If the price is for western salaries, i understand, for huge profit at the expense of impoverished workers, er, no.
I believe covid and China will make people think about where their product comes from and people will need to get their head around paying more to have things made in the west.
Quote:Bod
More good news
"Unilever ends joint Anglo-Dutch structure to set up single London base in U-turn on scrapped Holland HQ debacle.
Company denies Brexit was a factor, says move will make it more capable of acting fast to do deals"
Quote:BBandW
Quite scary to think that the same team of Cummings, Johnson et al that so incompetently led to the UK having the highest death toll in Europe, are exactly the same team in charge of the Brexit discussions.
No reason not to suspect that the results will be equally as bad.
Quote:John Tee
well, no extention and Barnier looking like he is marginalised as Heads are meeting monday.
Quote:John Tee
well, no extention and Barnier looking like he is marginalised as Heads are meeting monday.
Quote:gaz59Quote:John Tee
well, no extention and Barnier looking like he is marginalised as Heads are meeting monday.
But Barnier is only the negotiator appointed by the constituent countries albeit via the EU structure
He isn't marginalised. He may be given a different brief
Quote:BodQuote:John Tee
well, no extention and Barnier looking like he is marginalised as Heads are meeting monday.
That'll take the 27 about 3 months to concur unless Germany decides otherwise, and to be fair, the Visegrad group and most of E.Europe aren't too keen on pi$$ing off UK given the amount of ForEx repatriated from their compatriots working here, and they despise Barnier.
Quote:joethefanaticQuote:gaz59Quote:John Tee
well, no extention and Barnier looking like he is marginalised as Heads are meeting monday.
But Barnier is only the negotiator appointed by the constituent countries albeit via the EU structure
He isn't marginalised. He may be given a different brief
EU in "pursues it's own interests in negotiations" shocker.
Also to be noted that UK checks on EU imports will be delayed until mid 2021. No mention of the full checks by the EU on goods going the other way.
Plus, Trump's chances in November starting to look a little shaky. Who do we negotiate with for our "world class" US deal? A Biden administration is going to be far more interested in mending fences with the EU first.
Plus, there's a global pandemic that's going to be with us for while (sorry SW, but it is).
It's all looking a touch iffy.
Quote:joethefanatic
The vote of the 27 on the deal has to be unanimous to be approved. That means the deal is going to have to be very good indeed from an EU perspective. Which is not super encouraging from a UK perspective.
Quote:joethefanatic
The EU hates us, the US has gone native and hates everyone, China doesn't even care enough to hate us. The Japanese economy has cratered. The BRICS economies are being destroyed from within by covid19.
...at the worst time in 100 years and everyone we're trying to negotiate with in the world knows it. The kicking starts here.
Quote:joethefanatic
I understand that HMG is planning to develop an industrial strategy. Take about 25 years to bear fruit.
Quote:
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Quote:hemingtonQuote:
And your point is? Apart from the fact you spend all your time online trying to find articles to fill this forum with.
Quote:gaz59
What the eck does that mean for the average, non-currency dealing person like me, wp?