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Quote:DanWiley
Also it seems quite clear that to me that the world will come together in these superstates, technology makes it practically inevitable and the US, China, India and to a degree Europe are already there. That's quite a lot of the world and what are the rest going to do to compete? The same.
We seemed to have jumped out of that process at a point when we had a great position in it, we'd have been the 3rd rich power, on level terms of we wanted. What's our option now, being the 51st state?
Quote:DanWiley
Dealing with the US and China means going along with their politics and policies. You can say that is not union if you like. I'd agree, we have to take on board what they say, jump through whatever hoops they want, but they have no need to give us any more than lipservice.
That seems much worse than a political union which we were one of the most influential partners in.
Quote:DanWiley
Dealing with the US and China means going along with their politics and policies. You can say that is not union if you like. I'd agree, we have to take on board what they say, jump through whatever hoops they want, but they have no need to give us any more than lipservice.
That seems much worse than a political union which we were one of the most influential partners in.
Quote:DanWiley
You mean like we're doing with clorinated chicken right now? -We- don't get the choice, Boris forces it upon us because we can no longer afford to say "no" to the US.
We just don't live in a world where a country exists in isolation, it has to interact with the other countries and the stronger ones are going to force what they want on the weaker ones. We are now one of those weaker ones. Enjoy.
Quote:woodpecker
From the times
Britain will ask the European Union to extend the Brexit transition period beyond 2020 with a “duration determined by how long it will take to prepare and implement the future partnership”.
That should send the nutters in the ERG into apoplectic rage
Quote:DanWiley
You mean like we're doing with clorinated chicken right now? -We- don't get the choice, Boris forces it upon us because we can no longer afford to say "no" to the US.
We just don't live in a world where a country exists in isolation, it has to interact with the other countries and the stronger ones are going to force what they want on the weaker ones. We are now one of those weaker ones. Enjoy.
Quote:woodpecker
I can't be bothered to get into the debate again, but it seems to boil down to people not liking the option we had i.e. the EU which was a pretty extreme version of a trade bloc, but the alternative is err, nothing really. The cake and eat it thing isn't going to happen.
Hopefully we will be able to chart a position for ourselves, it wont be that bad, but not being in a trading block on the doorstep of the world's biggest free trade area won't be easy.
Quote:John TeeQuote:woodpecker
I can't be bothered to get into the debate again, but it seems to boil down to people not liking the option we had i.e. the EU which was a pretty extreme version of a trade bloc, but the alternative is err, nothing really. The cake and eat it thing isn't going to happen.
Hopefully we will be able to chart a position for ourselves, it wont be that bad, but not being in a trading block on the doorstep of the world's biggest free trade area won't be easy.
The point is, it wasnt free.
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
I really think we should try and use GDP per capita with populations of countries more than 10m.
Quote:John Tee
Tesla 240 miles...??
half what my car does but then i have to take it to a garage and cant just plug it in...
i wonder how much that 240 odd miles costs on your electricity bill.
Quote:OutsideBath
Look on the bright side, we don't have to worry about "No deal Brexit" as the UK will have nothing to trade thanks to Boris shutting down the economy.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:OutsideBath
Look on the bright side, we don't have to worry about "No deal Brexit" as the UK will have nothing to trade thanks to Boris shutting down the economy.
You are becoming 'Trumpesque' now OB, keep saying stuff so you hope it happens !! Even though its clearly fake news.
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:shipwreckedQuote:OutsideBath
Look on the bright side, we don't have to worry about "No deal Brexit" as the UK will have nothing to trade thanks to Boris shutting down the economy.
You are becoming 'Trumpesque' now OB, keep saying stuff so you hope it happens !! Even though its clearly fake news.
Oh lighten up will you.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:OutsideBathQuote:shipwreckedQuote:OutsideBath
Look on the bright side, we don't have to worry about "No deal Brexit" as the UK will have nothing to trade thanks to Boris shutting down the economy.
You are becoming 'Trumpesque' now OB, keep saying stuff so you hope it happens !! Even though its clearly fake news.
Oh lighten up will you.
Oh! so its sarcasm is it? You need to put it in italics if thats the case or use the emoji !
Tricky spotting your jokes sometimes, glad your happy England is open for business because Wales clearly isn't.
Latest rule on public transport form the Welsh government is that you are banned from running for the bus because your sweat might infect other people.
Quote:CoochieCoo
Having lived through rationing in the early 50s, the poor man of Europe years, industrial unrest and bodies not being buried, rubbish all over the place, 15% mortgage rates, high inflation etc we are still in a better place despite Covid. The world are all desperate to get back to trade and I don’t fear a U.K. on its own any more. Life and the world has changed and Trading patterns and work styles will change and maybe for the better environmentally. No gloom and doom here!
Quote:warrenball
Are you allowed to say 'fatties' John? Think you need to add a disclaimer with a link to an organisation who can provide help and advice for those upset by the language.
Quote:John Tee
I think there will be a last minute deal..
Quote:Bod
NID, I appreciate the comment regarding the fiscal comparison and monetary value applied to your positions and observations
However, my application of moribund was more referenced towards the social values of the environments, especially employment.
If employment is a worthy value then the UK consistently beats EU, even with the consistently higher employment laws and in-work benefits and protections compared to the 27.
Lower income tax also attracts the more aspirational , both to come to work, and to establish their own businesses. How many young French professionals work and have their own businesses in UK??
500,000 French nationals in UK merited an appearance by Macron at a rally in UK prior to their last Presidential campaign I believe?
I don't think many rushed back.
If you're a young, qualified nurse or doctor in southern Europe you have a shamefully difficult outlook in finding a job. (Spend some time in the RUH and see how many Iberian nurses and medics from both countries are on the wards, this my anecdotal experience)
Here the EU consistently fails spectacularly year after year achieving nothing for employment and young people, as their doctrinal mantras take presidence over social cohesion and social values of dignified employment.
The UK has benefited massively and will continue to give the millions of young EU citizens that have flocked to this country from the unemployment bleakness of their home locations some fair options to develop their skills, and earn a dignified living, especially from the Mediterranean and E.European zones.
Many send a lot of their earnings home to keep their folks afloat in their crumbling social systems hammered by austerity enforced from Germany via Bruxelles.
The Eurostat link I offer shows a consistently impressive record of the UK in having higher % of their various demographics in employment - you can juggle the reference buttons as much as you wish. UK always impresses.
The future economic expansion for UK will not come from EU as long as they are paying off the borrowings from an increasingly contracting fiscal fountain. Under WTO the UK enjoys the discretion to levy fees on goods to access this market and stimulate national production, and given the balance of payments with EU, even if this is reciprocated, the sums look good for UK.
Doctrinal diktat of the EU continually morphs towards the USSR format grabbing more and more powers centrally, over the day to day aspects of the political conduct of 27, even more so with the enhancement of their revolving 5 year budgetary plans .
You'll notice Ireland following UK closely.
Employment Stats - EU v UK
When you open this link, scroll down and add a country for comparison. Different demographics regarding age, sex etc are on buttons below.
The youth employment comparison is especially stark for the EU youngsters
I'd appreciate your comments.
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Mr Tee
Without betraying any confidences what sector of business are you in..........just intrigued with a company recruiting at this time.
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Massive growth sector.................with or without Covid and with or without the EU or Brexit!!!
Quote:
Quote:BathMatt53
Aren't Nissan going to leave if there is a no deal (or a even a 'non-frictionless') Brexit?
Quote:
Quote:John Tee
That has to be a non story...the export value is currently nothing almost.
Nice headline news though...
Quote:joethefanatic
Boris reneging on the legally binding Northern Ireland agreement he personally signed and threatening to take his toys home if the other kids don't bend over backwards to make him look good by mid October. Who's going to bother signing any treaties with the UK in future after this demonstration of reliability?
Quote:DanWiley
So our "oven ready" WA assumed that a FTA could be put in place that most people said at the time was really unlikely to happen? As a result we're going to put in place the building blocks for breaking up the uk.
Quote:DanWiley
That's what I said Jim, but you said the WA was dependent on a thing that was never going to happen, so it was all pie in the sky anyway.
Quote:woodpecker
Why is it in the newspapers, Boris got 'Brexit done' in January, its all over. Unless of course the red wall voters were tricked.
Quote:shipwrecked
Even if there is no trade deal now, why can't there be one later? It doesn't just stop after all. The economic damage argument went out the window with Covid what difference does it make between 35 years to recover and 40 years to recover? It does seem as though the EU are treating us as existing members in this negotiation.
Quote:DanWiley
So our "oven ready" WA assumed that a FTA could be put in place that most people said at the time was really unlikely to happen? As a result we're going to put in place the building blocks for breaking up the uk.
Quote:OutsideBath
The Tories used to be the party you could trust with the economy. However the pandemic response proves this is no longer the case and their Brexit “strategy” is confusing at best.
Breaking international law is also ridiculous for any responsible government.
Quote:John TeeQuote:OutsideBath
The Tories used to be the party you could trust with the economy. However the pandemic response proves this is no longer the case and their Brexit “strategy” is confusing at best.
Breaking international law is also ridiculous for any responsible government.
And if you read the Covid thread you'll see plenty of support for another season of furlough.
I dont actually find the Brexit strategy confusing... they know the price of percieved capitulation and have repeatedly said they will not do that.
The EU could offer us conditions akin to other deals but they want to retain influence over a sovereign state....which finally blows away any pretence we retained sovereignty when within...
They want to retain fishing rights and potential jurisdiction over state subsidy. Can you imagine France agreeing to that...
I don't think so.
Quote:DanWiley
If you're the weaker state in a relationship you're going to have things dictated to you by the stronger one. The US will do it do us, China will do it to us, the EU will do it to us.
Did you think we could lose all that political and economic clout and carry on the same?
Sadly I suspect it's a multiplier effect and we're on a downward trajectory.
Quote:DanWiley
If you're the weaker state in a relationship you're going to have things dictated to you by the stronger one. The US will do it do us, China will do it to us, the EU will do it to us.
Did you think we could lose all that political and economic clout and carry on the same?
Sadly I suspect it's a multiplier effect and we're on a downward trajectory.