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World cup predictions.
Discussion started by JFPC (IP Logged), 08 September, 2019 22:06
JFPC
JFPC
08 September, 2019 22:06
Now that the squads have been announced and all the warm up games completed it must surely be time for some predictions. Head and heart list 1-4?

I'll start.

Head.
Winners: New Zealand. Unfortunately.
Losing Finalist: S.A.
3rd Eng.
4th Aus

Heart.
Winners England
Losing Finalist Ireland
3rd France
4th N.Z.



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

SarrieSaint
SarrieSaint
09 September, 2019 08:47
Interesting one. I really think this England team can go all the way but that almost certainly relies on Jones not over-playing or breaking Billy and Manu which I am less confident about. If England can keep the bulk of their players including the above fit then I would back them against any other team except SA right now. That would be 50/50. I don't think the ABs will make the Final. Not sure if the draw allows this but I'd go:
England
SA
AB
AUS

TomReagan
TomReagan
09 September, 2019 09:35
Those predictions will be spot on or not far off! I really hope that in say 8 years' time we're finally faced with the possibility of some 2nd tier nations (the label itself says a lot) getting to the semi finals, and for that to happen the IRB has to stop being in such thrall to the bigger nations and make far greater efforts to allow other countries to improve. Pichot isn't everyone's cup of tea, but I admire his intent. I am looking forward to the WC, but know that the group stages will include plenty of dull mis-matches which aren't good for the game. At least finally allowing the WC to be staged in Japan is progress, but a lot more is needed.

ballsout
ballsout
09 September, 2019 10:00
I wouldn't be too surprised to see Wales go all the way, or at least get to the Final, far more likely than Ireland.

I can see England going all the way, but then I can also see them losing to Argentina, so who knows really.

ade1865
Ade1865
09 September, 2019 10:23
I think SA will win it.

cb2
cb2
09 September, 2019 10:53
England cannot change things on the hoof. This is especially true with Farrell in charge. We always need a half time or a loss to sort things out. It first came to light during that Italy game, when they tried their funny tricks. As a result of this, I cannot see England putting together 3 knock out wins in a row to lift the trophy. The England side of 03 could deal with things like being under pressure in the Welsh game or having a poor functioning scrum in the final. That side had experienced losses but were a couple of years ahead in development compared with this lot. Our peak will be 2021.

I will back NZ to win the final and Scotland to go deep to the semis. Wales don't score enough points and Ireland's pack is no longer what it was.

1 NZ
2 Australia
3 Scotland
4 England

JFPC
JFPC
09 September, 2019 11:19
Come on you lot, actual predictions please!

I found it quite difficult. I think it will be between England, S.A or N.Z. winning it. I don't think Wales or Australia have the squad depth to go beyond the Semis, but could be lucky with injuries. Ireland seem to be on the way down but so were England in 2003...



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn
09 September, 2019 11:29
Don't know how we can predict where England will end up with as yet no settled first choice squad - this really does irritate but to be cynical, this could be so that the opposition are kept guessing too?

Of course, before anyone says otherwise, I want England to win it, but then I often get it wrong! LOL!

TomReagan
TomReagan
09 September, 2019 11:51
I'll go for a SA vs. NZ final, won by whichever side lost the fixture in the group stage.

P G Tips
P G Tips
09 September, 2019 11:58
IMHO there are 7 teams that could win it, in order of probability;

1. SA
2. NZ
3= England, Ireland, Wales
6 Australia
7. France

That said, I have a feeling NZ will not get 3 in a row so I go for;

SA v England in the final- SA the winner.
Australia and France losing Semi finalists.

PG

Awp24975
Awp24975
09 September, 2019 12:19
Not looked properly to see how things fall but will go:

South Africa
NZ
England
France


Heart

England
South Africa
France
NZ

sirtidychris
sirtidychris
09 September, 2019 13:02
I think its between England and SA. Being in Japan with eddie at the helm is good for us, we have virtually no injuries and some strong performances leading in. Ultimatley it will depend on Tuilagi, Farrell and Billy not getting injured and Ben Youngs finding some bloomin form.

opti
Optimist
09 September, 2019 13:11
Quote:
cb2
England cannot change things on the hoof. This is especially true with Farrell in charge.

Quite annoying to hear Farrell say that England's ability to 'stick in the fight' is key to their chances. That's a bit like saying i'm great at crossing the road because cars only miss me by a centimetre or two. I'd rather be going into games having the ability to build a lead and hold on to it.

Having said that, I believe England do have the ability to build substantial leads with the range of attacking threats they now have. My prediction is that England will win it.

SarrieSaint
SarrieSaint
09 September, 2019 13:23
Worth noting Hartley not Farrell in charge for Italy game and he's shown in three of four finals this past season that he can orchestrate a change of game plan with Sarries trailing the opposition.

I suspect the prescriptive gameplan from Jones is the issue and the more freedom he gives the players and leadership group the better we'll do. After the Wales loss in the 6 Nations one of Jones first comments was he was pleased with how we kept to the gameplan ...
Cipriani being out of the loop, a player who plays what he sees rather than follows the script tends to support that idea that the players have little freedom.

John Tee
John Tee
09 September, 2019 13:25
Quote:
cb2
England cannot change things on the hoof. This is especially true with Farrell in charge. We always need a half time or a loss to sort things out. It first came to light during that Italy game, when they tried their funny tricks. As a result of this, I cannot see England putting together 3 knock out wins in a row to lift the trophy. The England side of 03 could deal with things like being under pressure in the Welsh game or having a poor functioning scrum in the final. That side had experienced losses but were a couple of years ahead in development compared with this lot. Our peak will be 2021.

Agree on putting wins together...we fall down there now that the rwc preps are at the sharp end.

This side has had long enough to peak.
We have a lot of so called leaders on 50 plus caps.
i dont think they are actually leaders ...although they are hyped as such.

Winners Boks
Runners up NZ.

P G Tips
P G Tips
09 September, 2019 13:48
Quote:
SarrieSaint
Worth noting Hartley not Farrell in charge for Italy game

Hartley?

PG

ballsout
ballsout
09 September, 2019 13:53
Farrell certainly orchestrated a change in the Scotland 6N game, before being shepherd's crook-ed and for Ford to rescue the day.

ballsout
ballsout
09 September, 2019 13:55
Quote:
Optimist
Quite annoying to hear Farrell say that England's ability to 'stick in the fight' is key to their chances. That's a bit like saying i'm great at crossing the road because cars only miss me by a centimetre or two. I'd rather be going into games having the ability to build a lead and hold on to it.

Well yes, I'm sure he wants his side to get a big lead then protect it, but it doesn't always work like that. Also, people need to stop reading so much into what captains and coaches say to the media. It's mostly meaningless.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
09 September, 2019 14:19
[www.theguardian.com]

Hartley for this one PGT.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

John Tee
John Tee
09 September, 2019 15:25
Of course, every team needs to hang on in there at times and also be able to win ugly.
NZ are lauded for it.

I dont think we are able to do either, tbf.

We can beat anyone on our day but then lose to too many from a good position.
That has been a pattern since the South Africa tour.

opti
Optimist
09 September, 2019 15:59
Quote:
John Tee
Of course, every team needs to hang on in there at times and also be able to win ugly. NZ are lauded for it

I laud them for always going out with the mindset that they are going to put the opposite team to the sword. Occasionally they end up with an ugly win, but that's not a defining characteristic of the way they go out to play. If anything, I associate NZ with nicking a win when the opposition restrict themselves to hanging in there for an ugly win.

redmix
redmix
10 September, 2019 09:59
I think a NZ v SA final (unless they meet before hand!).

I don't think Wales have what it takes against NZ, SA or Aus, so won't win.
Ireland look very vulnerable in all of their warm ups even when winning. I think they've peaked to early.
England with luck with injuries, and some self belief could go all the way. I think more likely they'll get on the wrong side of a ref and lose narrowly when it matters. Or get the game plan wrong and not be able to change in time.
France??? who knows!

cb2
cb2
10 September, 2019 10:46
Not sure about Ireland. They had a slump but appear to be timing their fitness for a late run at the WC. They need a dominant pack to let their 9 and 10 boss the game. It has been missing of late.

Scotland are the ones who could benefit from the WC format. The draw could open up for them, if they beat Ireland. They will be match hardened by the tough opposition in their group and might meet a SA side suffering from a large defeat by NZ. I see them as the surprise of the tournament. The only other surprise might be how bad France are. They could lose 3 games in the group.

TomReagan
TomReagan
10 September, 2019 11:15
Think I've understood it right redmix- as SA and NZ are in the same group they can't play each other again until the final.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
10 September, 2019 12:34
Quote:
TomReagan
Think I've understood it right redmix- as SA and NZ are in the same group they can't play each other again until the final.

Yes, so England would play one of them in the Semi if they got through and to win it would potentially have to beat both (if I have interpreted my wallchart correctly).



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
10 September, 2019 14:49
1. SA
2. NZ
3. England
4. Australia

Would prefer NZ to win it though if England don't and certainly couldn't stomach any other NH side winning.

opti
Optimist
10 September, 2019 15:00
Heart:

1. England
2. Wales
3. Scotland
4. Ireland

(will always support England, then a home union, then a NH, then an underdog)

Head:

1. England (subject to George, Itoje, 2 x Vunipolas, 1 x Tuilagi remaining fit throughout)

So, actual head:

1. New Zealand, if not England
3. Wales
4. South Africa

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
10 September, 2019 18:37
I have found my predictions to be pretty hopeless so I will just short list who I would LIKE to see do well.

Purely a supporting preference:-

England
Italy (in-laws)
France (enjoyable to watch over the years and the best national anthem!)

Anyone but:-
Australia (Ashes grudge)

gaz59
gaz59
11 September, 2019 10:55
I would love one of the pacific island teams or Japan to do well. I haven't really been following either the warm up games in SH or the group setups to be honest. So anyone got a view on if one of those has much chance of making the QFs?

redmix
redmix
11 September, 2019 11:44
Quote:
TomReagan
Think I've understood it right redmix- as SA and NZ are in the same group they can't play each other again until the final.

Oh, that's me not looking at who is playing who in the pools. So, I stick to a NZ v SA final, with England in the final 4. Heart says England top two, but head goes with beaten semi finalists.

Not sure I'm with those who think Scotland will do well, if they get out of their group does anyone really think they'll beat NZ or SA? (I've now looked at the pools and the quarter finals arrangements!)

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
11 September, 2019 14:05
My concern is that England seem unable to play consecutive games with high intensity. In the same way that England footballers can't stop giving the ball away in midfield!
We win a game or score a try or a goal then go all complacent. That's when you need a character to keep direction. We don't have a snapper in either sport!



https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg


Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Sadly injured for the rest of the season!

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
11 September, 2019 22:08
Wales' flyhalf problem could impact the club except that he believes he is ineligible to play having not achieved the 60 cap threshold.
Losing Priestland would leave us with a problem, unless of course you see it as an opportunity for Tom de Glanville.



https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg


Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Sadly injured for the rest of the season!

TomReagan
TomReagan
12 September, 2019 00:34
I think Jarrod Evans is the next cab on the rank. They both played in a warm up match and Patchell, who replaced Evans, had the better game. RP unlikely to be involved methinks.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
12 September, 2019 09:59
Quote:
shipwrecked
Wales' flyhalf problem could impact the club except that he believes he is ineligible to play having not achieved the 60 cap threshold.
Losing Priestland would leave us with a problem, unless of course you see it as an opportunity for Tom de Glanville.

Alex Davies is an able back up to Freddie Burns during these 'warm up' fixtures (if he isn't, why is he even in the squad?).



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

SarrieSaint
SarrieSaint
12 September, 2019 15:20
Quote:
shipwrecked
My concern is that England seem unable to play consecutive games with high intensity.

Tbf that's the case for most teams even (whisper it quietly) the All Blacks. One of the things Jones has done that I actually think may well help is that I think he'll head to the RWC by accident or design with a number of very good XVs with various permutations. I think it's those permutations that may keep the side fresh and focused through the RWC.

As for leadership it can be tricky to define exactly what it is. For many it seems it's as simple as being on the winning side with little consideration for the impact good (or bad) leadership has.
I didn't see much mud being chucked at AWJ or Read after the Welsh and ABs losses recently. Whilst both pick up plenty of plaudits for their great leadership when results have gone their way.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
13 September, 2019 06:58
Quote:
shipwrecked
My concern is that England seem unable to play consecutive games with high intensity. In the same way that England footballers can't stop giving the ball away in midfield!
We win a game or score a try or a goal then go all complacent. That's when you need a character to keep direction. We don't have a snapper in either sport!

England's rugby snapper is Faz. Whether he's playing well or badly, he demands high standards. Whether the players are able to respond is a different matter.

England's football snapper is Jordan Henderson and he plays the same role.

I don't think the issue is the snapper, I think it's that the players are human and the supporters are perfect.

Oh, and

SA winners
NZ runners up
England semis
France semis

Player of the RWC - Antoine Dupont



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 13/09/2019 07:04 by joethefanatic.

gaz59
gaz59
13 September, 2019 08:43
Quote:
shipwrecked
Wales' flyhalf problem could impact the club except that he believes he is ineligible to play having not achieved the 60 cap threshold.
Losing Priestland would leave us with a problem, unless of course you see it as an opportunity for Tom de Glanville.

On evidence of last two seasons can anyone think of a match where RP's performance has got you thinking, hmm that was international class?

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
13 September, 2019 12:35
Quote:
gaz59
Quote:
shipwrecked
Wales' flyhalf problem could impact the club except that he believes he is ineligible to play having not achieved the 60 cap threshold.
Losing Priestland would leave us with a problem, unless of course you see it as an opportunity for Tom de Glanville.

On evidence of last two seasons can anyone think of a match where RP's performance has got you thinking, hmm that was international class?

Not at all but we are talking Gatland here! Highly unlikely that Jarod Evans will get thrown into a RWC, However, Patchell and Biggar should cover it.



https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg


Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Sadly injured for the rest of the season!


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