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RWC England vs Argentina
Discussion started by BathMatt53 (IP Logged), 03 October, 2019 05:24
BathMatt53
BathMatt53
03 October, 2019 05:24
England starting XV v Argentina:

15 Elliot Daly
14 Anthony Watson
13 Manu Tuilagi
12 Owen Farrell
11 Jonny May

10 George Ford
9 Ben Youngs

1 Joe Marler
2 Jamie George
3 Kyle Sinkler
4 Maro Itoje
5 George Kruis
6 Tom Curry
7 Sam Underhill
8 Billy Vunipola

Replacements

16 Luke Cowan-Dickie
17 Mako Vunipola
18 Dan Cole
19 Courtney Lawes
20 Lewis Ludlam
21 Willi Heinz
22 Henry Slade
23 Jack Nowell

So: Mako, Slade AND Nowell return just in time. Those returnees aside, the starting 15 looks like his strongest possible?



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2019 06:01 by BathMatt53.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
03 October, 2019 06:30
Quote:
BathMatt53
England starting XV v Argentina:
15 Elliot Daly
14 Anthony Watson
13 Manu Tuilagi
12 Owen Farrell
11 Jonny May

10 George Ford
9 Ben Youngs

1 Joe Marler
2 Jamie George
3 Kyle Sinkler
4 Maro Itoje
5 George Kruis
6 Tom Curry
7 Sam Underhill
8 Billy Vunipola

Replacements

16 Luke Cowan-Dickie
17 Mako Vunipola
18 Dan Cole
19 Courtney Lawes
20 Lewis Ludlam
21 Willi Heinz
22 Henry Slade
23 Jack Nowell

So: Mako, Slade AND Nowell return just in time. Those returnees aside, the starting 15 looks like his strongest possible?

Ummm, strength-wise, the wearer of the 15 shirt might be the subject of some debate?

And the target on the front of the 10 shirt for any ball carrying Argentine forwards in the neighbourhood?

And the 12, 13 combo looking a tad short on subtlety?

Apart from that, no worries.

England by 15.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2019 06:35 by joethefanatic.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
03 October, 2019 07:06
Note in relation to the no. 15 I said ‘his’ strongest 15! Eddie continues to plough his own furrow when I comes to Daley.

10, 12, 13 I think have proven themselves tbh.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
03 October, 2019 07:51
True Matt but Eddie does hold on to his picks on loyalty before dropping people. Interesting that AW is there for comparison.
Some subtlety on the bench though Joe.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Omba
Omba
03 October, 2019 07:52
Wilson and Joseph both unlucky not to bench

ballsout
ballsout
03 October, 2019 08:49
As predicted really, it's a very strong team.

This'll be a tight game, I can see it going either way.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
03 October, 2019 09:22
Argentina will obviously be up for it but haven't been great for a while now I can't see anything other than a strong England win. Bookies have England by 14 and that sounds sensible to me.

Argentina are actually 6/1 to win with Skybet (England 1/12) which does make an Argentina flutter attractive to pay for the drowning of sorrows if they do win...



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

ballsout
ballsout
03 October, 2019 09:35
Argentina + World Cup + must win game for them does funny things

opti
Optimist
03 October, 2019 09:57
I think England will power it and end up with a bonus point. That's as complete an England side as it's possible to pick. As much as anything, Eddie's achieved the elusive holy grail of ball-playing inside centre and genuine 7, which always gives the team the right look.

I'm not sure why people are still worrying about Daly. He's become an incredibly disciplined Eddie type player - he will kick more often than not, but when he does decide to run with the ball or link with his wingers he's pretty much always effective.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
03 October, 2019 10:00
Quote:
Optimist
when he does decide to run with the ball or link with his wingers he's pretty much always effective.

Whenever I have seen him recently he turn in and runs into a big gang of forwards. I also cringe whenever I see him going up for the high ball (although he seems to have improved on this in recent games) and when he is a 1 on 1 defensive situation.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
03 October, 2019 10:03
Quote:
Optimist
I think England will power it and end up with a bonus point. That's as complete an England side as it's possible to pick. As much as anything, Eddie's achieved the elusive holy grail of ball-playing inside centre and genuine 7, which always gives the team the right look.
I'm not sure why people are still worrying about Daly. He's become an incredibly disciplined Eddie type player - he will kick more often than not, but when he does decide to run with the ball or link with his wingers he's pretty much always effective.

Its the other basic skill thats a worry Opti.....Tackling!



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

sirtidychris
sirtidychris
03 October, 2019 11:41
Quote:
Optimist
That's as complete an England side as it's possible to pick. As much as anything, Eddie's achieved the elusive holy grail of ball-playing inside centre and genuine 7, which always gives the team the right look.
.

so true not since 2003 have we had an out and out 7 and sensible 12/13 it has been an issue in 2007, Hipkiss, Tait and catt in the centres. 2011, wilko/ flood, Hape axis, 2015 Burgess debacle. and the utter legends but 6.5's of Moody and Robshaw covering the 7 spot.

fat lock
fat lock
04 October, 2019 17:02
Quote:
shipwrecked

Its the other basic skill that's a worry Opti.....Tackling!

This - I doubt he will be overly exposed tomorrow - but France and Australia are a concern. Not sure that risk is outweighed by the threat of 3 points from a long kick.

SarrieSaint
SarrieSaint
04 October, 2019 17:30
Quote:
Optimist
I'm not sure why people are still worrying about Daly. He's become an incredibly disciplined Eddie type player - he will kick more often than not, but when he does decide to run with the ball or link with his wingers he's pretty much always effective.

In the ABs/SA game the ABs mainly played themselves back into the game through poor loose kicking by SA (mainly 9 and 10) and the inability of two of the back three to deal with the aerial game.

I can already see two reasons above why we should be concerned about Daly against the best opposition as they will actively target him.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
04 October, 2019 21:14
Its going to be boring but I expect the tactics tomorrow morning to be, kick for field position, fast line speed, hard ball carrying, short passes, (super hot tomorrow), score from turnover ball and driving maul.

It will not be pretty. just need a win.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

gaz59
gaz59
04 October, 2019 23:16
Quote:
Optimist
I think England will power it and end up with a bonus point. That's as complete an England side as it's possible to pick. As much as anything, Eddie's achieved the elusive holy grail of ball-playing inside centre and genuine 7, which always gives the team the right look.
I'm not sure why people are still worrying about Daly. He's become an incredibly disciplined Eddie type player - he will kick more often than not, but when he does decide to run with the ball or link with his wingers he's pretty much always effective.

Totally agree with first para but golly I cannot, for the life of me agree with second

Daly is a big liability under high ball and in defence - what happens when he gets the ball to attack from deep and with space is a secondary question because the best teams won't let him have it then

MESSAGES->author
Le marseillais
05 October, 2019 07:36
Be carefull with Argentina.
They will be probably better than against us.
But I think you will win easily.



ASM Clermont Auvergne supporter

JFPC
JFPC
05 October, 2019 08:01
Every time I hear it I think "Christ on a bike, our national anthem is dire!"



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

JFPC
JFPC
05 October, 2019 08:14
Should that have been a penalty try? The maul was marching forward when it was brought down.

Anyway May scores 5.3 to England.



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2019 08:15 by JFPC.

JFPC
JFPC
05 October, 2019 08:24
17 mins Argie red card



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
05 October, 2019 08:29
Shame for the game, but Nige really had no choice.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
05 October, 2019 08:31
Oh Manu! You fecking dumb ass. Dont give the ref an excuse



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2019 08:31 by joethefanatic.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
05 October, 2019 08:35
What is Farrell's head made of?

From what has happened since I think the argie bargie approach has taken England's minds off the job. Need to reset and refocus.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
05 October, 2019 08:45
Youngs not having his best game. So far.

JFPC
JFPC
05 October, 2019 08:49
First time since red card England look dangerous and Daly scores.



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

JFPC
JFPC
05 October, 2019 08:55
Fair play to Youngs. 15.3



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
05 October, 2019 08:56
Well try was OK but his delivery is fecking glacial.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2019 08:58 by joethefanatic.

JFPC
JFPC
05 October, 2019 08:57
Quote:
B4thB4ck
What is Farrell's head made of?

Dunno, but I think that knock may have affected his kickind radar, 0/4.



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
05 October, 2019 08:58
Hope that Farrell is putting all his missed kicks for the tournament into one game! 0 from 4



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
05 October, 2019 09:01
A try for Argentina would give them hope they don't deserve, so complacency is the big danger. The coaches need to give a big warning about that before the restart.

Ford to place kick in the 2nd half?

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
05 October, 2019 09:08
The point was made why no HIA, he didn't have one when he was hit by Quill, has he got a dispensation of some sort?



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
05 October, 2019 09:13
No Billy. Should be interesting



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

JFPC
JFPC
05 October, 2019 09:20
Ford settles any second half nerves and Farell finally lands one.



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
05 October, 2019 09:21
Ford and Daly playing very well.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
05 October, 2019 09:23
He was having a mixed game to be honest, Ludlum not out of place, Ford uses his bulk to smash over... did I just say that?

Love the description of Underhill as a 'truffle pig' sniffing around for the ball.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
05 October, 2019 09:57
Jack Nowell really is remarkable.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

ballsout
ballsout
05 October, 2019 10:07
George Ford is absolute quality. So funny thinking back to the Facebook group and how everyone there was laughing at the swap with Freddie, convinced Burns was better. Deluded.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
05 October, 2019 10:11
Tighthead problem coming, is Billy's ankle bad?

England had one of their 'tempo crises' but came back at the end, Farrell had a poor one, Sam Underhill MoM.

We are in the quarter finals!



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
05 October, 2019 10:13
Quote:
ballsout
George Ford is absolute quality. So funny thinking back to the Facebook group and how everyone there was laughing at the swap with Freddie, convinced Burns was better. Deluded.

GF thumbs down, the rest doesn't make sense?



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
05 October, 2019 10:34
A bit like a car I once had, the 2nd half threatened to go into limp home mode, the Argentina try woke England up for a bright finish.

That maul at the end was textbook and versus a team that prides itself on their forward beef, England clearly enjoyed that.

Just the injuries to worry about then. We don't need to risk anyone v France to qualify now which buys more time for them. Unless there are any surprises coming I am not sure there is any point in getting focussed on or distracted by QF opponents?

John Tee
John Tee
05 October, 2019 11:20
Lucky large part of the game was against 14 because that coujd have been close otherwise on our form.
Functional and the right result..the less said about the rest the better, imv.

fat lock
fat lock
05 October, 2019 11:46
Difficult to draw any firm conclusions in my view since once the red card happened it seemed everyone knew the outcome and just went through the motions.
No strong positives - I'm sure Eddie would want the team tested a bit more.
Quite a few significant negatives - injuries, kicking, lack of concentration and intensity
5 points, job done - but do we look like world champions? I think not

opti
Optimist
05 October, 2019 12:40
Real shame about the red card. It was already blindingly obvious that England were going to win, and the card just put an upset completely out of the equation and denied England a proper test.

If you were picking a strongest XV based on today’s (slightly stilted) evidence, then Ford would be ahead of Farrell, and Billy V would be on the bench. I’m sure those Sarries boys will step up when it comes to the harder tests though, and Itoje is just sensational. I think England are doing a job, They will blow France and Australia away, though the selection of McConnoghie ahead of another prop is looking dafter by the minute. Daly wasn’t fully tested, but he started the game very very well - he’ll be targeted, but teams will have to get kicks spot on or he can punish them.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
05 October, 2019 12:43
Agree, odd game. England seemed to lose their train of thought after they were a man up and didn’t make the most of the advantage.

Only real positives IMO were that they have played another game together, that the injured boys got a run out and that they got 5 points.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

SarrieSaint
SarrieSaint
05 October, 2019 15:10
Daly had probably his best game at FB since he started there but he still wasn't really tested and more importantly Nowell came on and showed some of the quality he offered. For me Englands best back 3 doesn't have Daly in it; May, Watson, Nowell.

Tough day at the office for Farrell. Goal-kicking not good but I thought in the first half he was good otherwise and the second to last try when he moved back to 10 showed his quality. Ford showed incredibly well after some poor field kicking early on to show some masterful touches with the boot in the second half. A try and two assists also very good going.

I don't expect it to find favour here but Undercurry lacks balance to me. Got worse once Ludlum came on. Also think the idea that Billy needs to play all the time has been shown to be total BS. He looked tired last game and likewise this even before he took a knock.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
05 October, 2019 17:35
Quote:
SarrieSaint
I don't expect it to find favour here but Undercurry lacks balance to me. Got worse once Ludlum came on. Also think the idea that Billy needs to play all the time has been shown to be total BS. He looked tired last game and likewise this even before he took a knock.

Curry and Billy both looked tired, I though Underhill had a good game, loads of tackling and some really good ball carrying, he seemed to follow the ball as a good 7 should but Curry is not a 6, he plays much better at 7. I don't really care who plays at 8 but if they are going to do they have to be dynamic.
I think that we should pick our back row to match according to the opposition, I don't think we should settle on a regular 6,7,8.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

opti
Optimist
05 October, 2019 17:51
Not sure about the back-row, but it won’t get worse by having Wilson in it. Getting Lawes in the starting line-up isn’t the worst prosoect either, so I feel like we’re in good shape one way or another.

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
05 October, 2019 19:48
The back row is tricky.

I think Curry needs to be the outright 7 to be effective. He seems to play better roaming the field rather than sticking to a particular structure.

I think Underhill has played too well to be dropped. But then I thought of him as more of a 6 (though recent performances have changed that slightly).

I think Wilson and Underhill are too similar to play 6 and 7. Both more structured.

I think all 3 options can do a job. If we're not playing the power game then all 3 players could do a job. The problem is I don't think any of the 3 options are perfectly balanced. Curry and Wilson probably the most so (but then they've had some average performances together).



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

ballsout
ballsout
05 October, 2019 21:59
Quote:
John Tee
Lucky large part of the game was against 14 because that coujd have been close otherwise on our form.
Functional and the right result..the less said about the rest the better, imv.

I've no idea what game you were watching but it wasn't England v Argentina.

Good performance, smart rugby, totally in control for pretty much the whole match. Getting better every week.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
05 October, 2019 22:47
I think there's an argument to be made that England are a better team without Billy at 8. When he's there they just dump the ball to him and let him get on with it (or not). Without him, they have to play more imaginatively and there is actuallly a very good team in there waiting to get out.

I'd swap Underhill and Curry. Curry is a 7 all day long.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

SarrieSaint
SarrieSaint
05 October, 2019 23:04
Quote:
joethefanatic
I think there's an argument to be made that England are a better team without Billy at 8.

For me they categorically aren't but I'd accept the point that when he plays (and Mako too) there is a tendency for the rest of the team to rely too heavily on them in the carry. You only have to look at today, people (including me) were saying Billy looks tired and yet five minutes? in he's stopping a carry by a Pumas player with two teammates latched onto him. On his next couple of carries he's breaking the gainline despite being multi-tackled. Underhill, Curry and Ludlum all carried but made very little impression when they had to go direct. I'm not sure the best version of Englands game works without a few players able to offer that very direct threat even as we offer other more elusive runners both in close and out wide.

Agree on the points made by several above. I see Underhill as a 6 and Curry as a 7 and still don't get the logic of Jones switching them. Even worse he's now talking about Underhill and Wilson as 7s and Curry at 6 (presumably with Lawes/Maro the other option or Ludlum at a pinch) and whilst I rate Wilson hugely as a player he's a 6 all day long; huge work rate, multi-skilled but not especially quick or outstanding in turnover ability.

ballsout
ballsout
05 October, 2019 23:54
Billy's way too tentative in contact these days. He was commenting to the press the other day that everyone going on about how he needs to be wrapped in cotton wool is making him try and avoid getting injured.

I don't think he deserves his place on current form but it's not much of a problem because England have tons of heavy traffic carriers at the moment. Get Wilson on the bench though, or even starting.

Faz needs a big game, and quick.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
06 October, 2019 00:28
Quote:
SarrieSaint
I see Underhill as a 6 and Curry as a 7 and still don't get the logic of Jones switching them. Even worse he's now talking about Underhill and Wilson as 7s and Curry at 6 (presumably with Lawes/Maro the other option or Ludlum at a pinch) and whilst I rate Wilson hugely as a player he's a 6 all day long; huge work rate, multi-skilled but not especially quick or outstanding in turnover ability.

Can't agree about Underhill, the only reason he got labelled as a 6 is because Ospreys had Tipuric at 7, he made his name initially tackling everything that moved, now Bath and England have encouraged him to carry more.

There is a big danger that people try to put the best players on the pitch and make them fit. Curry is a 7 and Underhill is a 7. You should pick 1 not both. Go for a proper big 6 and a dynamic 8.
The only reason EJ picked both today is he wanted SU to tackle and Curry in a lineout capacity.
Curry didn't have a particularly good game v Argentina.

I rewatched with an emphasis on 6,7,8 Curry often took the ball standing still and made far fewer tackles than Underhill who was on his toes all the time. He is very economical in his stops, often only doing 70% of the tackle staying on his feet then moving on to the next breakdown as opposed to a 100% tackle and hitting the ground the getting back up.
On Billy he started the game fine but ran out of steam after 20 mins, worth looking again at the game both Curry and Billy we doing a fair bit of plodding.

We played Curry and Underhill v Argentina because we had a big pack, there will be games where we play 787, 686, 678 depending on the opposition. Interchanging is part of the modern game. Even to the point where Lawes plays 5 and 6. Its just the way the back row is nowadays.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
06 October, 2019 06:00
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
SarrieSaint
I see Underhill as a 6 and Curry as a 7 and still don't get the logic of Jones switching them. Even worse he's now talking about Underhill and Wilson as 7s and Curry at 6 (presumably with Lawes/Maro the other option or Ludlum at a pinch) and whilst I rate Wilson hugely as a player he's a 6 all day long; huge work rate, multi-skilled but not especially quick or outstanding in turnover ability.
7
Can't agree about Underhill, the only reason he got labelled as a 6 is because Ospreys had Tipuric at 7, he made his name initially tackling everything that moved, now Bath and England have encouraged him to carry more.

There is a big danger that people try to put the best players on the pitch and make them fit. Curry is a 7 and Underhill is a 7. You should pick 1 not both. Go for a proper big 6 and a dynamic 8.
The only reason EJ picked both today is he wanted SU to tackle and Curry in a lineout capacity.
Curry didn't have a particularly good game v Argentina.

I rewatched with an emphasis on 6,7,8 Curry often took the ball standing still and made far fewer tackles than Underhill who was on his toes all the time. He is very economical in his stops, often only doing 70% of the tackle staying on his feet then moving on to the next breakdown as opposed to a 100% tackle and hitting the ground the getting back up.
On Billy he started the game fine but ran out of steam after 20 mins, worth looking again at the game both Curry and Billy we doing a fair bit of plodding.

We played Curry and Underhill v Argentina because we had a big pack, there will be games where we play 787, 686, 678 depending on the opposition. Interchanging is part of the modern game. Even to the point where Lawes plays 5 and 6. Its just the way the back row is nowadays.

I'm not sure Sam's linking play is good enough (yet) for him to be considered an out and out 7. He's certainly a 6.5, tho.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

SarrieSaint
SarrieSaint
06 October, 2019 08:01
Sort of agree ballsout. I do think he's more tentative in contact but I equally think that even playing like that he's better by a margin than anyone else we have at 8. Don't really agree about the other carrying options in the sense that whilst we have options we lack players who will actually put you over the gainline almost every carry like the Vunipolae will or one in two like Manu will.

Good points shipwrecked. I guess it also depends on what you want (expect?) at 6 and 7. For me 6 is huge work rate and does everything well ideally with at least one real strength (dominant tackles, strong carries, lineout work) for the 7 I would be looking for the quickest, or near, forward in the pack both to get to breakdowns but also to act as a link player in the open. I'm not convinced that's Underhill and whilst I appreciate we've seen glimpses of that (such as his great dart and try! against the ABs) it's not a regular feature of his game when he's played for England. It has been Currys although he was quiet yesterday. I'd have no problem with Underhill at 7 though but still am not convinced by Undercurry together.

Agree joe.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
06 October, 2019 09:33
Quote:
joethefanatic
I'm not sure Sam's linking play is good enough (yet) for him to be considered an out and out 7. He's certainly a 6.5, tho.

I have to say Joe that was my impression but when I re-watched the game I was surprised by the amount of passing that occurred in that game, he linked several times with Ford and others, short passes, to keep the game moving. I can't find stats of that game yet but its worth concentrating on him next watch. He doesn't stick out in commentary because a lot he does is fast interlinking and tackling.

I think he will make a huge difference for Bath this season if the pack starts to tick.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
06 October, 2019 10:42
Espn is usually a good place for stats SW

[www.espn.co.uk]

Match and player stats (scoring attacking and defending)



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2019 10:43 by BathMatt53.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
06 October, 2019 11:20
Quote:
BathMatt53
Espn is usually a good place for stats SW
[www.espn.co.uk]

Match and player stats (scoring attacking and defending)

Yes Matt, I looked but couldn't seem to find stats for that game. Perhaps I wasn't looking in the right place.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

John Tee
John Tee
06 October, 2019 11:30
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
John Tee
Lucky large part of the game was against 14 because that coujd have been close otherwise on our form.
Functional and the right result..the less said about the rest the better, imv.

I've no idea what game you were watching but it wasn't England v Argentina.

Good performance, smart rugby, totally in control for pretty much the whole match. Getting better every week.

seriously...?? not tested so far in all 3 games and we are way off being good enough to win it, performance wise.
We've had an easy ride so far, made easier by playing 14 for the most of the game.

You must be the local wind-up on this board. oh well, carry on.

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
06 October, 2019 11:40
Quote:
joethefanatic

I'd swap Underhill and Curry. Curry is a 7 all day long.

I think they both play 6.5 in Eddie's scheme.

Regardless of whether he acts like a 6 though, I'd want Underhill in the open, charging at the FH and chopping any hard running backs, at every scrum.



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2019 11:41 by The Bear.

ballsout
ballsout
06 October, 2019 11:43
Quote:
John Tee
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
John Tee
Lucky large part of the game was against 14 because that coujd have been close otherwise on our form.
Functional and the right result..the less said about the rest the better, imv.

I've no idea what game you were watching but it wasn't England v Argentina.

Good performance, smart rugby, totally in control for pretty much the whole match. Getting better every week.

seriously...?? not tested so far in all 3 games and we are way off being good enough to win it, performance wise.
We've had an easy ride so far, made easier by playing 14 for the most of the game.

You must be the local wind-up on this board. oh well, carry on.

You must be the armchair England supporter who hasn't got a clue what he's talking about and spouts ignorant nonsense. The way they handled the red card in the second half was excellent. In total control of what was a very awkward game.

opti
Optimist
07 October, 2019 09:15
'The way they handled the red card in the second half was excellent.'

The media seem to be full of this, and i genuinely don't understand why England are getting plaudits for the fact that the opposition were a player down for 3/4 of the match. It's accepted wisdom that teams score points when the opposition is a player down for a yellow card.

So why are England being praised for handling the fact that Argentina effectively had 6 x yellow cards in consecutive periods of the game? England were always going to run away with the game in the final quarter when they were in a position to introduce 8 x players, several of whom would make Argentina's starting XV. The fact that they were able to do so against a side that was more tired than it would have been, made that job easier, not harder.

I'm not criticising England - I feel more and more confident that Eddie has got things right and that England (assisted by a near-perfect fixture list) are going to meet NZ in the semi-final. But there's plenty of obviours things to praise them for - winning 15 vs 14 isn't one of them.

John Tee
John Tee
07 October, 2019 10:37
We've played two no hopers and 14 men. Nothing stellar about that apart from full points.
I doubt France will put up a big fight as they will not need to.
So we go into the qtrs without having got out of 3rd gear...not by choice, mind, we haven't been able to put out great performance.

It is good that we are inching along but we haven't shown anything that will frighten anyone.
Aus will know they have to stay in the game because we will not play for 80mins on all our recent past form...we haven't got that mind set to do it

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
07 October, 2019 11:13
Possibly, but the rugby starts at the knockout stages, pool stages are points and avoid injuries.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

opti
Optimist
07 October, 2019 11:17
Tell that to Stuart Lancaster!

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
07 October, 2019 11:36
Quote:
Optimist
Tell that to Stuart Lancaster!

Yep, I forgot to mention qualification!



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

ballsout
ballsout
07 October, 2019 13:25
Hopefully France will put up a fight

opti
Optimist
07 October, 2019 13:32
Quote:
ballsout
Hopefully France will put up a fight

There's a danger they really won't give a merde - they could quite legitimately feel that they have a better chance of progressing by finishing second - which could leave England a bit undercooked/undertested.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
07 October, 2019 13:32
England could certainly do with a test in this so called ‘group of death’...



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

ballsout
ballsout
07 October, 2019 14:46
France are deluding themselves if they think they have a better chance of progressing by facing Wales. They should be aiming to top the group, the Welsh will wipe the floor with them in the QF.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
07 October, 2019 15:10
Quote:
ballsout
France are deluding themselves if they think they have a better chance of progressing by facing Wales. They should be aiming to top the group, the Welsh will wipe the floor with them in the QF.

Agree, Wales are far too organised, but they usually put in one good performance....



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
jayeatman
07 October, 2019 16:06
Quote:
ballsout
France are deluding themselves if they think they have a better chance of progressing by facing Wales. They should be aiming to top the group, the Welsh will wipe the floor with them in the QF.

Should England be concerned about topping the group though?
Yes, Wales in the QF will be tougher than Australia, but you get to avoid NZL in the semi.
Should we rest a few and start the team that played pretty well against USA, giving us the best chance of having the strongest team available for the knockout stages?



BATH supporter since 1975

Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
07 October, 2019 16:29
Quote:
jayeatman
Quote:
ballsout
France are deluding themselves if they think they have a better chance of progressing by facing Wales. They should be aiming to top the group, the Welsh will wipe the floor with them in the QF.

Should England be concerned about topping the group though?
Yes, Wales in the QF will be tougher than Australia, but you get to avoid NZL in the semi.
Should we rest a few and start the team that played pretty well against USA, giving us the best chance of having the strongest team available for the knockout stages?

There is press speculation that he will not play his best side, perhaps in the hope that they lose and miss NZ, if he wins its arguably an unwanted bonus!



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
07 October, 2019 16:45
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
jayeatman
Quote:
ballsout
France are deluding themselves if they think they have a better chance of progressing by facing Wales. They should be aiming to top the group, the Welsh will wipe the floor with them in the QF.

Should England be concerned about topping the group though?
Yes, Wales in the QF will be tougher than Australia, but you get to avoid NZL in the semi.
Should we rest a few and start the team that played pretty well against USA, giving us the best chance of having the strongest team available for the knockout stages?

There is press speculation that he will not play his best side, perhaps in the hope that they lose and miss NZ, if he wins its arguably an unwanted bonus!

I certainly hope he doesn't, could just about stomach losing to the Aussies in the QF but not the smug Welsh.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
07 October, 2019 16:51
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
jayeatman
Quote:
ballsout
France are deluding themselves if they think they have a better chance of progressing by facing Wales. They should be aiming to top the group, the Welsh will wipe the floor with them in the QF.

Should England be concerned about topping the group though?
Yes, Wales in the QF will be tougher than Australia, but you get to avoid NZL in the semi.
Should we rest a few and start the team that played pretty well against USA, giving us the best chance of having the strongest team available for the knockout stages?

There is press speculation that he will not play his best side, perhaps in the hope that they lose and miss NZ, if he wins its arguably an unwanted bonus!

I certainly hope he doesn't, could just about stomach losing to the Aussies in the QF but not the smug Welsh.

There is no way England will lose to Wales, 50:50 if at the Principality Stadium but no repeat OB, trust me!



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

ballsout
ballsout
07 October, 2019 17:10
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
jayeatman
Quote:
ballsout
France are deluding themselves if they think they have a better chance of progressing by facing Wales. They should be aiming to top the group, the Welsh will wipe the floor with them in the QF.

Should England be concerned about topping the group though?
Yes, Wales in the QF will be tougher than Australia, but you get to avoid NZL in the semi.
Should we rest a few and start the team that played pretty well against USA, giving us the best chance of having the strongest team available for the knockout stages?

There is press speculation that he will not play his best side, perhaps in the hope that they lose and miss NZ, if he wins its arguably an unwanted bonus!

I certainly hope he doesn't, could just about stomach losing to the Aussies in the QF but not the smug Welsh.

There is no way England will lose to Wales, 50:50 if at the Principality Stadium but no repeat OB, trust me!

You honestly think that? I'd say Wales would start as favourites at a neutral ground. They're looking very, very good at the moment and get better as tournaments go on. Frankly I want Australia in the QFs just to avoid Wales. Then again losing to them in a QF would be horrible but the prospect of losing to them in a World Cup Final is terrifying.

MESSAGES->author
hasta
07 October, 2019 17:51
Australia are a shambles, Wales are the exact opposite. And frankly I'd rather play NZ in a semi than a final.


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