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RWC England v France - OFF!
Discussion started by BathMatt53 (IP Logged), 10 October, 2019 05:48
BathMatt53
BathMatt53
10 October, 2019 05:48
Match off due to typhoon.

[www.bbc.co.uk]

NZ vs Italy also cancelled. Scotland vs Japan ‘under review’ which would mean they are out if that one on Sunday is cancelled.

Despite the rules being very clear about what would happen if a game is cancelled (ie a draw) and Scotland being quite open to this when the game vs Ireland was under threat, Scottish Rugby are asking for the game Vs Japan to be rearranged if affected. Strange that.

[www.scottishrugby.org]



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2019 06:16 by BathMatt53.

DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy
10 October, 2019 06:47
It does make a bit of a mockery of the tournament that knowing it is peak typhoon season, adequate contingency plans aren't in place.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
10 October, 2019 07:03
Whilst that’s true, it isn’t anything that all the teams didn’t know (and accept) a long time ago. Unfortunately for Scotland it may (or may not) affect them - of course if they had beaten Ireland it wouldn’t matter.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
10 October, 2019 07:37
I guess you can't have a guaranteed contingency for this sort of storm, everything goes into lockdown and arranging alternative venues can be undone by a shift in the storms course.

Putting the rugby and our loss of entertainment to one side let's hope everyone stays safe. I can remember my wife being 9 months pregnant in a snowy January, not a great situation. There are some things the weather can't postpone.

DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy
10 October, 2019 07:38
I agree all the teams knew about it and it was mentioned on here before the tournament.
I feel sorry for fans who may have travelled 12,000 miles not to see a game.

Boldangrey
Boldangrey
10 October, 2019 07:52
Two sides to the Eng-Fra cancellation.

1 England would benefit from the game time (Nowell etc). Along gap between fixtures does not always help.

2 At this stage the competition becomes very attritional (look at Wal-Fij) and it's one less opportunity to pick up injuries.

MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k
10 October, 2019 08:15
Quote:
Dorset Boy
I agree all the teams knew about it and it was mentioned on here before the tournament.
I feel sorry for fans who may have travelled 12,000 miles not to see a game.

We are a bit glum this afternoon but fully understand the decision, this will be my first typhoon...



Adopted players: 2019/20 T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
10 October, 2019 08:33
'Hi Gregor, it's Eddie here, hey look if your game gets called off as well how do you fancy being our training opponents instead? We have a QF to prepare for.....'

I do hope the Scots game goes ahead though, a great fixture that.

SarrieSaint
SarrieSaint
10 October, 2019 10:43
Does anyone else get why these games can't just be moved to a different venue and played behind closed doors? An imperfect solution for sure but better than not playing 3? games including one that has potential group qualification riding on it.

warrenball
warrenball
10 October, 2019 10:50
Although the rules are clear and it is the same risk for all teams I don't think any team had any choice other to accept the rules. Just very bad luck and takes away one of the really interesting games of the tournament. I hope there was no schadenfreude in your post Matt.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
10 October, 2019 11:12
I think with the chance of the storm changing course by the time you are sure where it will land you would be exposing everyone involved to travel risk.

You could find another venue indoors and Japan is a long country but these storms cover a wide area.

You could put it back 24 hours, perhaps 48 but ignoring the spectator numbers that is still a lot of personnel that need to travel in time through potentially damaged infrastructure. No easy answers?

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
10 October, 2019 11:13
Quote:
warrenball
Although the rules are clear and it is the same risk for all teams I don't think any team had any choice other to accept the rules. Just very bad luck and takes away one of the really interesting games of the tournament. I hope there was no schadenfreude in your post Matt.

Possibly a teeny bit (Sm14). Agree I was looking forward to the Brave Blossoms taking another historic win though...



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy
10 October, 2019 11:40
Quote:
B4thB4ck
I think with the chance of the storm changing course by the time you are sure where it will land you would be exposing everyone involved to travel risk.
You could find another venue indoors and Japan is a long country but these storms cover a wide area.

You could put it back 24 hours, perhaps 48 but ignoring the spectator numbers that is still a lot of personnel that need to travel in time through potentially damaged infrastructure. No easy answers?

They've given 48 hours notice which is ample to change venues if the contingency had been planned before the tournament. but it wasn't which is damaging to the integrity of the tournament.

JFPC
JFPC
10 October, 2019 12:20
Having a back up venue ready for every match would be expensive, postponing matches gives teams a shorter turnaround before quarter finals.
There's no easy answer other than not staging the RWC in an extreme weather prone area. Which would make growing the game difficult...



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

cb2
cb2
10 October, 2019 13:11
Who will make the Japan decision? Having seen the problems with the offsides in the Irish match and the feed call in the Scottish game - a gifted draw would make them a popular but controversial 1/4 finalist. I hope the game goes ahead and they win on the pitch.

This could all play into England's hands. EJ has been on for ages about planning for every kind of problem. We should be prepared for this. Time to earn his corn.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
10 October, 2019 14:30
With Japan P3 W3 and beating Ireland not as controversial as it might be.

I do hope it goes ahead, fascinating contest, but safety first.

MESSAGES->author
hemington
10 October, 2019 18:06
having recently landed in eastern North Carolina the day before Huricane Dorian hit I know what brutes these 'storms' can be. Luckily for us the waiting was the worst bit - not sure of course, wind speeds and whether associated tornadoes would engulf us. In the end we had 8" of rain in 12 hours and super gales which caused a lot of tree damage, widespread power cuts etc. Believe me you do not want to be 'moving around' when one of these suckers comes to town. Be safe all those fans, players etc. and hope it passes by quickly and without too much huff and puff.

opti
Optimist
11 October, 2019 10:21
Imagine England lose to Australia in the Q-F! I don't think that's going to happen, but Australia are really not far off being a very good side, and it's a one-off game for which their build-up has worked out being better than ours. Players like Hooper, Pocock, Toomua, Genia are not going to go quietly.

Our World Cup would then consist of doing a fairly perfunctory job on 2 Tier 2 nations, and putting away 14-man Argentina. Doesn't really bear thinking about.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
11 October, 2019 10:46
Quote:
Optimist
Imagine England lose to Australia in the Q-F! I don't think that's going to happen, but Australia are really not far off being a very good side, and it's a one-off game for which their build-up has worked out being better than ours. Players like Hooper, Pocock, Toomua, Genia are not going to go quietly.
Our World Cup would then consist of doing a fairly perfunctory job on 2 Tier 2 nations, and putting away 14-man Argentina. Doesn't really bear thinking about.

I suspect losing to Australia in the Q-F could cost Jones his job.

cb2
cb2
11 October, 2019 10:49
Yes, our WC could be over before it really began. A bit like last time, when we didn't show up. I would have liked to have gone against the Welsh scrum, which has struggled so far, but we should match up well against an Australian team which does not seem to know the laws. Send our power runners at them and test out their tackling.

Moggie
Beer Belly
11 October, 2019 10:59
Quote:
Dorset Boy
They've given 48 hours notice which is ample to change venues if the contingency had been planned before the tournament. but it wasn't which is damaging to the integrity of the tournament.

They've also had 10 years in planning this event. Alan Gilpin, the tournament director, keeps using the phrase 'contingency plans' in his sound bites. For the second phase of the competition maybe, but it seems that during the pool games it is picking up the 'phone and saying "sorry chaps the match is off".

Not very good!

Cheers! (Sm63)

opti
Optimist
11 October, 2019 10:59
Quote:
OutsideBath
I suspect losing to Australia in the Q-F could cost Jones his job.

I'm not sure it would, or should. England have lost to Australia lots of times, though we have a great record against them in World Cups. Perversely, that's worrying me - the fact that we are pretty much overwhelming favourites. Cheika would 'absolutely love' to put this one over Eddie.

Distractedly watching Aus vs Georgia, though, Australia seem to be doing a very poor imitation of Exeter.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
11 October, 2019 11:10
Quote:
Optimist
Quote:
OutsideBath
I suspect losing to Australia in the Q-F could cost Jones his job.

I'm not sure it would, or should. England have lost to Australia lots of times, though we have a great record against them in World Cups. Perversely, that's worrying me - the fact that we are pretty much overwhelming favourites. Cheika would 'absolutely love' to put this one over Eddie.

Distractedly watching Aus vs Georgia, though, Australia seem to be doing a very poor imitation of Exeter.

Seen a bit of the game today and Georgia's defence seems very well organised.

Losing in the Q-F would be viewed as failure for England and I personally believe that those who fail in their job should expect to be fired.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
11 October, 2019 11:36
Considering the size of the playing base and the amount of time and money Eddie has chucked at it, anything less than a SF must be regarded as poor IMO. He has had a massive advantage over almost all of the other teams in the tournament.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

ballsout
ballsout
11 October, 2019 11:47
6 wins against Australia in a row, I'm seeing nothing from them that might change that. Anything can happen in a world cup match of course but they remind me of Bath atm, lots of quality players playing well below the sum of their parts.

Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
11 October, 2019 11:59
Their management and facilities must be rubbish, then.

Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
11 October, 2019 11:59
-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2019 12:03 by Mike the Taxi.

Ali1969
Ali1969
11 October, 2019 14:12
This World Cup is starting to unravel into a bit of a fiasco and detracts from some great matches - firstly there is the officiating which has been at times comical - the crooked feed given against Samoa in injury time which allowed Japan to get their bonus point try? I somewhat agree with Mr Townsend on that point - I don't believe any other team has fallen foul of this...The public criticism from World Rugby of its own referees is something which really caught my attention. Now we have Typhoon Gate - who would have thought it a Typhoon in the middle of Typhoon season - Wow that caught us out!!!

The incredulous thing is that World Rugby appears to have no contingency plan when it suits - like Mark Dodson has illuded to I strongly believe there would be grounds for a legal challenge should World Rugby continue it's stance and the game was called off. A real shame for our sport but that is how the game is evolving - I too find Serge Parisse's comments quite compelling in his reference to If the All Blacks needed a victory in their final pool game I am positive we would witness a different outcome. As for Eddie Jones - Clever but really he has a cheek - England have dodged their toughest pool fixture - I am sure France feel as happy as Eddie - Win Win...

Let us all just hope the game on Sunday goes ahead and the best team wins - our game does not have a second public legal challenge et al Folau.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
11 October, 2019 14:33
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
Optimist
Quote:
OutsideBath
I suspect losing to Australia in the Q-F could cost Jones his job.

I'm not sure it would, or should. England have lost to Australia lots of times, though we have a great record against them in World Cups. Perversely, that's worrying me - the fact that we are pretty much overwhelming favourites. Cheika would 'absolutely love' to put this one over Eddie.

Distractedly watching Aus vs Georgia, though, Australia seem to be doing a very poor imitation of Exeter.

Seen a bit of the game today and Georgia's defence seems very well organised.

Losing in the Q-F would be viewed as failure for England and I personally believe that those who fail in their job should expect to be fired.

You seem to want people fired at Bath too, a touch of the Trumps going on? In sport there is only one champion, so should all the coaches who have failed to win the top prize get fired every season? Define failure. You say 'those' not just Jones.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
11 October, 2019 15:05
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
Optimist
Quote:
OutsideBath
I suspect losing to Australia in the Q-F could cost Jones his job.

I'm not sure it would, or should. England have lost to Australia lots of times, though we have a great record against them in World Cups. Perversely, that's worrying me - the fact that we are pretty much overwhelming favourites. Cheika would 'absolutely love' to put this one over Eddie.

Distractedly watching Aus vs Georgia, though, Australia seem to be doing a very poor imitation of Exeter.

Seen a bit of the game today and Georgia's defence seems very well organised.

Losing in the Q-F would be viewed as failure for England and I personally believe that those who fail in their job should expect to be fired.

You seem to want people fired at Bath too, a touch of the Trumps going on? In sport there is only one champion, so should all the coaches who have failed to win the top prize get fired every season? Define failure. You say 'those' not just Jones.

I don't want people at Bath fired I'd rather they won trophies, although that seems unlikely.

Failure really depends on what the initial objectives are, in England's case we are ranked 3 in the world so anything less than a semi final place is failure.

In Bath's case I'd have thought for this season failure would be finishing below 6th place.

ballsout
ballsout
11 October, 2019 16:32
Quote:
B4thB4ck
In sport there is only one champion, so should all the coaches who have failed to win the top prize get fired every season?

Premiership coaching is a long term appointment with no end goal. Eddie Jones was hired to win the World Cup in 2019.

Back to Premiership coaches, of course every one who doesn’t win the top prize shouldn’t be sacked. But what about continued failure? Continued underperformance in all competitions? Constantly.

The problem with this club is every year coaching appointments are made piece by piece cellotaped to the previous year’s staff. No one team brought in with one vision.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
11 October, 2019 16:45
I thought that was the idea of Hoopers role when it was announced, someone to keep continuity whilst head and skills coaches come and go, some glue to keep it together.

Of course, the vision needs to be right and we don't have the head coach to lead on the technicalities so it is not set up right yet in my opinion.

I will await post RWC developments.


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