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England vs Aus
Discussion started by Optimist (IP Logged), 14 October, 2019 16:25
opti
Optimist
14 October, 2019 16:25
Starting to get a bit twitchy about this one. The thought of going home with barely a shot fired is too awful to contemplate. But: it's Australia and even for them, they must be feeling hyper-motivated; we can't carry on beating them forever; it seems as though they have a serviceable setpiece; and ironically, after 4 years of Eddie putting them through the grinder, we're a little undercooked.

Ultimately, selection for this one is almost irrelevant - there isn't a duff player in England's 31 and there are loads of arguable permutations - it's just about the performance on the day of whoever he picks.

If he was bold, he'd pick Ford and ditch Farrell. I've argued it before, but playing two fly-halfs together will always leave one of the two feeling a bit emasculated. So far, it's been Faz, with Ford absolutely buzzing. However, unless those blows to the head have taken more out of Faz than is being let on, there's no way he'll leave him out.

In the unlikely event of him ditching one or other, I'd slot JJ in, mainly for his defence. I could actually see Australia targeting the Faz/Tuilagi channels, because both of them can be a bit of a liability in their own ways.

The rest of the team stays the same - maybe Mako in to start with Genge on the bench. Possibly Courtney for Kruis.

I reckon it could be as close as the 2003 final, but i'm backing the Sarries spine and career-defining performances from Underhill and Curry to close it out, especially If Billy V can get some proper rumbles in to wear the life out of Hooper and Pocock.

Awp24975
Awp24975
14 October, 2019 16:47
It is good that we have so many different permutations and would be happy with any of them.
In my opinion Kruis has to start as he is our best out and out second row. Maro gets all the praise but George just does what a second row should do.
Marler to start even though Mako is the better, bring him on and turn the screw.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
14 October, 2019 18:21
Farrell would never be dropped - Eddie loves leaders and you only have to listen to last weeks Rugby Union weekly podcast with Ashton and Care to hear all about how the kids has been a leader of men since he was about 18.

I would pick Jamie George, Kruis and Itoje because of the set piece stability if nothing else.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/10/2019 18:23 by BathMatt53.

John Tee
John Tee
14 October, 2019 18:42
Ive argued you could drop Farrell for some games and he hasnt been great this Rwc.
Id play Heinz and Ford but also get that Jones will play safe and i can see the sense in that since he didnt take the stand out 10 in the prem last season.

With the squad he has, id pick Ford and Farrell, if fit, plus Heinz.
Id have no problem with Kruiz starting or Marler.

Currie, Underhill and Vunipola. He hasnt tried much else so he has to stick with what he knows...and he will damned for that reason if we lose...
i think that team should beat Australia but not clear we actually will...

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
14 October, 2019 19:22
My bookie has England by 9. I actually think that we will beat them comfortably tbh (12-15 points).

Then NZ will smash Ireland, SA will smash a knackered Japan. Not sure about Wales v France - as ever depends on which France shows up.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/10/2019 19:23 by BathMatt53.

ballsout
ballsout
14 October, 2019 22:02
Wales will annihilate France, sadly.

opti
Optimist
15 October, 2019 08:22
Quote:
ballsout
Wales will annihilate France, sadly.

Ffs ballsout - can you not get through a single thread without hijacking it for your anti-Ba.... wait, what?

Predisbosition - the tendency to assume the above.

gaz59
gaz59
15 October, 2019 08:30
Quote:
Optimist
Quote:
ballsout
Wales will annihilate France, sadly.

Ffs ballsout - can you not get through a single thread without hijacking it for your anti-Ba.... wait, what?

Predisbosition - the tendency to assume the above.

🙌

cb2
cb2
15 October, 2019 12:03
Slade and Wilson have gone for 6N stars to bench guys. They have been unlucky with injuries. I think the pack picks itself and the only call to make is with Joe or Nowell on the bench.

ken_jnr
ken_jnr
15 October, 2019 12:18
Nowell is unlikely to be fit according to Sky Sports this morning so even that one will be a done deal!

Edit - Though through my one BBW eye I can see a case for JJ over Slade on the bench in terms of form shown so far.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/10/2019 12:19 by ken_jnr.

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
15 October, 2019 12:31
Quote:
ballsout
Wales will annihilate France, sadly.

France by 3 for me ! (Sm128)



Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

SarrieSaint
SarrieSaint
15 October, 2019 16:13
Quote:
Awp24975
In my opinion Kruis has to start as he is our best out and out second row. Maro gets all the praise but George just does what a second row should do.
Marler to start even though Mako is the better, bring him on and turn the screw.

Amen to all that. Kruis is incredibly important to England playing at their best. Best scrummaging lock, best lineout caller and huge work rate. The Times did a piece recently where they pointed out he hit a third of all Englands attacking rucks in the 6 Nations. There's a reason we get quick ball and it's that sort of workrate. Also agree on Mako. I'm less convinced he's a great impact player, I feel he's so good that it makes sense to play him from the start but given this is his first game in a while I'd be happy with Marler.

I just can't see us losing this game unless we get a red card. We should have control of the set piece and have a superior kicking game and decison-makers plus impact (bench) than the Aussies. Cheika may even help by picking Foley to start. I am going for England by 21. 14 if Ben Youngs has his usual dire game.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
15 October, 2019 16:42
The card situation is a worry, most decisions have been clearcut so far but always the chance a ball carrier will drop into the tackle slightly against someone tall like Lawes and the slow motion does the rest. Plenty of precedent now to show no mercy whatever the occasion, not that there should be of course.

SarrieSaint
SarrieSaint
15 October, 2019 17:53
I know what you mean about tall players B4 but I don't have concerns about Lawes. Best English tackler for a couple of seasons at least. Used to just be a banger and totaled himself as often as the opposition. These days he rarely makes the huge hits but he almost never misses and he tends to defend wider out so he quite often defends quicker backs rather than the forwards who truck it up through midfield.

Manu is the one who concerns me. Lucky not to have had a couple of yellows already IMO. Farrell seems to have got a handle on his defence since the RWC warm-ups started but I can understand some concern about him too. Hopefully the game will be decided outside of a card.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
15 October, 2019 18:10
Lawes was actually used as an example on one of the commentaries as a player who is really tall but always tackles really low. Manu and Faz are my biggest concerns in terms of barges / high tackles.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Banachek
Banachek
17 October, 2019 04:38
Team to face Ozz, From BBC website
Ford on bench, Lawes & Mako starting, Slade back....
EJ going big (Sm122)

England team to face Australia:

15 Elliot Daly
14 Anthony Watson
13 Henry Slade
12 Manu Tuilagi
11 Jonny May
10 Owen Farrell (captain)
9 Ben Youngs
1 Mako Vunipola
2 Jamie George
3 Kyle Sinckler
4 Maro Itoje
5 Courtney Lawes
6 Tom Curry
7 Sam Underhill
8 Billy Vunipola

Replacements
16 Luke Cowan-Dickie
17 Joe Marler
18 Dan Cole
19 George Kruis
20 Lewis Ludlam
21 Willi Heinz
22 George Ford
23 Jonathan Joseph

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
17 October, 2019 05:59
I think To'omua will start at 10 for Aus and Lawes is there specifically to target him. They know each other from Saints Tigs games...

I like most of this England side. Slade at 13 will be needed to beat NZ, if we get that far, so playing him here makes sense. Manu up against Kerevi will be "interesting" to say the least.

England by the odd score in a nail biter. I hope. All bets are off if Kurtley Beale starts.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/10/2019 06:07 by joethefanatic.

SarrieSaint
SarrieSaint
17 October, 2019 06:28
Very interesting selection.

Given how well he's played (even taking into account the quality of opposition) I think Ford can feel a bit miffed but tbh my feeling has always been in the harder games we would be better with the above combination. Whether that's right or not we'll see and I think it's fair to say I have a slight concern both about Slade getting back up to speed and Manu at 12, maybe they will switch?

Shame that Wilson is still injured. Jones very lucky indeed that the situation at 8 hasn't blown up in his face as Wilson has been available for 1? game so far and Billy could easily have taken a worse knock or not recovered by now. Undercurry combination will have to go very well as we're several men down in terms of clearers (no Kruis, no Marler to start) as well as adding a dimension in attack.

Only slight question is I'm not sure why you'd depower the scrum and lineout slightly against the Aussies by not starting Kruis and maybe Marler or Cole? The knock-on also being that whilst it's great having Ford and JJ on the bench (maybe to even go either side of Manu if he can go the whole 80?) there's a clear lack of dynamism bringing on Marler and Cole. Almost wonder if Genge might have been better from the bench?

Good side though and I hope they can play well together after the extended break and put Aussies away by a couple of scores.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
17 October, 2019 06:47
To me this smacks of tiring the Aussies out and the ‘finishers’ errr...finishing the job after 60 - big, strong and exciting names on that bench could do some damage.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
17 October, 2019 07:12
Not sure what else Ford can do. He has had 3 easy games of front foot ball and shown all the skills required of him to put teams away.

By changing Jones has shown he doesn't expect quick ball in this game and rather than focus on England's strengths has let the Aussie strengths change his team.

England might well win but if Jones knew deep down he wasn't going to trust Ford why start him in the easier games and then have to reshuffle the back line?

I think the Aussie defence coaches will be pleased.

sirtidychris
sirtidychris
17 October, 2019 07:42
I Like this team, its the team to give us the best chance to win the RWC, its a risk but slade has to be blooded now and Farrel and Vuinpolas need to find the best form.

the risk is we fall foul of our previous RWC errors of messing around with the centre partnership at the key moment in a 4 year cycle (2011 they tried wilko and Flood vs france and swapped corbs for stevens at loosehead, and in 2015 burgess..) however the risk is lower this time as everyones a known entity just struggling for form/fitness.

Thanks

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
17 October, 2019 07:59
Genge is unlucky IMO, I think that he works well of the bench.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

DanWiley
DanWiley
17 October, 2019 08:00
I think Eddie will have a plan to beat Oz, and that apparently involves not starting ford. I guess I have to trust Eddie in that regard, I kinda do. The tire then out then finish them off seems the most probable, but I'm not sure I'd have that combination of JJ, Slade and Manu though if that were the case. I'm still not convinced by Slade, he seems very hot and miss and dependent on the players around him having a good game.

As for cards, the cynic in me feels like we're due a red, we have the players. That said, I can see it as one thing Eddie might be good at, seeing it coming and drilling it out of the players.

opti
Optimist
17 October, 2019 08:33
I worry more about a key player injury than a card - if one of the Vunipolas goes early it could really panic England. What happens if Tuilagi goes early? It would certainly make England's backline an exciting one, but would be a huge change in game-plan.

All in all though, this is one of the most exciting and momentous games of rugby possible for an England supporter. Losing will put Eddie pretty much alongside Lancaster and Johnson - it's really not a stretch to see it happening, though logic and bookies say an England win.

Absolutely. Cannot. Blooky. Wait.

TG Kesmo
TG Kesmo
17 October, 2019 08:34
I think Slade maybe a risk too He was massively unimpressive in his first start. Looked off the pace and didn’t do anything to get the backline going, before getting injured again.

DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy
17 October, 2019 08:43
Very nervous about this.
The Aussie scrum is the best it's been for probably 20 years, they have Hooper & Pocock to disrupt the breakdown, and some big ball carriers in the backs. Remember they stuffed the ABs very recently. If you heard the muppets on Rugby Tonight you'd think it was the Marseille QF from a few years back and a powder puff Aussie pack!
Plus the Aussies are due a RWC win against us.....

Then Manu has been lucky not to get carded so far - can a Tuilagi avoid hitting above the shoulder?

Who is the ref?






B*ll*cks - just realised I must be sounding like the Exeter insurgent! SORRY!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/10/2019 08:46 by Dorset Boy.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
17 October, 2019 08:57
Australia team to face England: Beale; Hodge, Petaia, Kerevi, Koroibete; Lealiifano, Genia; Alaalatoa, Latu, Sio; Arnold, Rodda; Naisarani, Hooper (c), Pocock.

Replacements: Uelese, Slipper, Tupou, Coleman, Salakaia-Loto, White, To'omua, O'Connor.

I'm with Opti - can't wait for this game!



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

ballsout
ballsout
17 October, 2019 09:54
Farrell replacing Ford at 10...

Cringe.

John Tee
John Tee
17 October, 2019 11:24
If Ford is playing well enough...better form than Farrell, he is unlucky to be dropped.

Dropping Farrell at this stage... and Ford to a lesser degree gives the initiative to Auz..which is why Jones should have done so earlier, imv.

Anyway, we now have to blast away an Aus pack that is as solid in the line and scrum as at any recent time

It will be close and i can see Aus nicking it.

Jones plan B is to bring on the team we mostly have started with...so i think we tighten up front and have a back game in the last 20..

P G Tips
P G Tips
17 October, 2019 11:30
Maybe he sees Slade as vital to the fast start which England produced in their 6N matches?

Michael Lynagh in today's Times talks of Cheika only winning when his team get a fast start. He also suggests that both Cheika and Hooper get too wound up.

I suspect Eddies is hoping to open an early gap to pressure Aussie.



P G Tips



Levi Davis: my adopted Player, 2019-20.

opti
Optimist
17 October, 2019 11:55
I usually bet on first try-scorer. For Saturday I think I’ll have a flutter in the first punch-up starting within 19 minutes.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
17 October, 2019 12:07
Quote:
Optimist
I usually bet on first try-scorer. For Saturday I think I’ll have a flutter in the first punch-up starting within 19 minutes seconds.

FTFY



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

DanWiley
DanWiley
17 October, 2019 12:18
" Losing will put Eddie pretty much alongside Lancaster and Johnson"

I'm not sure I'd agree, Johnson maybe. But Johnson's issue wasn't really the manner in which they went out in, one loss to the finalists France... his issue was the discipline and attitude within the squad.

Lancaster lost two group stage matches and went out AT HOME. Just losing one additional match is a difference, but to do it in a home WC!

ballsout
ballsout
17 October, 2019 12:28
Farrell and Slade, players known for their defence and not missing tackles.

Oh wait.

I still have nightmares of Farrell handing the game back to Scotland before finally being removed from the field back in March.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
17 October, 2019 12:37
When Ford might come on could be interesting. If we are leading by a few points will Eddie stick or twist? If we are losing and Ford goes to 10 the tendency is to keep the ball in hand which fits with Ford's game but takes away his kicking variety which has been on form.

If we are winning then I can see Eddie holding Ford back but that stubbornness might leave us no time to hit back if we go behind late on.

If Ford comes on for the last quarter with a tiring England defence he is potentially more exposed defensively than if he started the game.

Not sure Eddie has this the right way around and Farrell will need to be kicking better than recently off the tee to turn our forward pressure into points.

warrenball
warrenball
17 October, 2019 13:47
I am sure it is going to be tight as Australia do not give up and have enough ability to score points against us, but it is a very good England team and they should win, especially if they keep their nerve, get the ball out wide and try to get one or two quick tries under their belt.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
17 October, 2019 14:52
For my money it will be a dour , bruising kicking game centred on the two packs. We will win just but break a couple of players to make Eddies selection issues easier. Either Ford of JJ to score at the end. Two out of MV BV HS or MT won't be in the next round. Underhill will be knocking yellow shirts over like skittles!



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

John Tee
John Tee
17 October, 2019 16:50
Curry and Underhill v Pocock and Hooper should be tasty.
Has Farrell got enough of a game against Aus, i dont think so, anx if the forwards cancel each other out, who has the best backs.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
17 October, 2019 16:57
Quote:
ballsout
Farrell and Slade, players known for their defence and not missing tackles..

That would be in comparison to Ford's notoriously crunching defence?



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

ballsout
ballsout
17 October, 2019 17:16
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
ballsout
Farrell and Slade, players known for their defence and not missing tackles..

That would be in comparison to Ford's notoriously crunching defence?

At least he (more often than not) makes the tackle, Slade missed like 11 tackles over two England matches recently, and Farrell not much better not that long ago.

John Tee
John Tee
17 October, 2019 18:08
One thing that Ford will do is track and be one of the last chasing tacklers should anyone break through...

I still dont think we will have enough in the latter part of the game..

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
17 October, 2019 18:48
People say a lot about Fords tackling but I have always thought it was pretty good - certainly better than Cipriani for example (or Daly). As John Tee says he is usually the last man.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
18 October, 2019 07:43
The England team isn't going to be particularly entertaining to watch but more importantly will win.

England by 10+

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
18 October, 2019 07:52
I would be more confident if the selection had shown more confidence (in 10, 12, 13).

John Tee
John Tee
18 October, 2019 08:12
Quote:
B4thB4ck
I would be more confident if the selection had shown more confidence (in 10, 12, 13).

yep, i dont have a confident feeling about the game...
Normally, i would say we've got them covered but...?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/10/2019 09:54 by John Tee.

cb2
cb2
18 October, 2019 09:19
EJ was put in place and given the big bucks to make sure we win these sort of games. We have almost all of our guys fit and have no excuses. I have a feeling that this could be a great England side. We just need 3 games to prove this. The Vunipolas are there, Curry is looking strong and Tuilagi is fit. Watson and May are also ready to explode. Keep 15 on the pitch and we will slowly control the game.

warrenball
warrenball
18 October, 2019 09:25
Why so much doubt about our back line? I think you could put out 3 or 4 different back line combinations and it would just be a question of how things went on the day. The thing we have to do is to attack Australia, both through our forwards and then quickly out to the wings, defences on both sides will be good and it will probably come down to how much the two back rows can slow down quick ball from the rucks.

Those who decry international rugby and go for club against country, I wonder which match this weekend holds the greatest appeal?

opti
Optimist
18 October, 2019 09:59
This game is bigger for Eddie Jones than it is for literally anyone else involved. It’s fair to say that the entirety of his career will be viewed through a different lens if England lose. A loss to NZ doesn’t define anyone’s career, but a loss to Australia in the Q-F does. Not even Boris Johnson’s dual Telegraph/Brexit columns were so diametrically opposite as the eventuality articles being prepared about Eddie for Sunday’s papers.

Michael Cheika would ‘absolutely love it’ if he won - is he Keegan and is Eddie Fergie?

SimonG19
SimonG19
18 October, 2019 10:08
Quote:
Optimist
Michael Cheika would ‘absolutely love it’ if he won - is he Keegan and is Eddie Fergie?

Yes because England will win with ease!

DanWiley
DanWiley
18 October, 2019 11:02
Some people's hubris is making me nervous.

opti
Optimist
18 October, 2019 11:08
Quote:
DanWiley
Some people's hubris is making me nervous.

Me too. I'm all over the place on this one. Cheika's boldness in selecting Petaia ahead of O'Connor, and Eddie's conservatism in dropping Ford is a stark contrast. Eddie is certainly acting the grizzled veteran in terms of World Cup pragmatism. I guess Cheika has less to lose.

cb2
cb2
18 October, 2019 12:48
It is easy to write the two articles now. England lose - we were undercooked due to the game off and picking Slade and Mako was an error. England win - the extra week of rest helped England recover and gave Slade and Mako a bit more time to get fully fit.

I would like to see no excuses, like 2003. We should have everything in place to win this game. Things never go 100% your way but with only the injured Nowell out of the 23, it is a pretty good place to be in. Make our tackles, kick our goals and DO NOT give away silly penalties.

SimonG19
SimonG19
18 October, 2019 13:13
Some people's negativity isn't making me nervous.

(Because why would someone else's opinion make me nervous?).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/10/2019 13:18 by SimonG19.

opti
Optimist
18 October, 2019 13:40
“I would like to see no excuses, like 2003” - well there is sort of a reason why they didn’t make excuses in 2003”

Banachek
Banachek
18 October, 2019 14:24
I have a very good feeling about this game England by at least 14

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
18 October, 2019 17:07
Quote:
DanWiley
Some people's hubris is making me nervous.

Why is it making you nervous?

The Aussies haven't been at all impressive, I can only see a comfortable win for England.

DanWiley
DanWiley
18 October, 2019 17:30
Because you know what pride comes before...

In truth, you're right, what's said on here makes no difference. I hope this attitude isn't reflected in the players though, I don't expect it will be. But from a personal point of view I'd say this game is 60:40 in favour of England. Yes, the chances are we'll win, but there's a lot of scope for not winning and saying you're more confident than that is just a chance to look a fool. On the other hand being right just means you picked the sightly more likely option with more confidence than it deserved.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
18 October, 2019 17:38
Japan were never supposed to beat Ireland either...



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

ballsout
ballsout
19 October, 2019 07:29
Ah Henry Slade. As convincing as always in an England shirt.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
19 October, 2019 07:38
Mmm Slade and Daly missing tackles, Slade not match sharp at all. Underhill smashing people and Watson looks electric.
England not panicking though!



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
19 October, 2019 07:46
Brilliant kick from Slade for the try but Australia so sharp, harem scarem stuff!



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
19 October, 2019 07:58
Belting tackle from Curry with Underhill straight over the top then pooper win the next one. hold out till half time please!



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite
19 October, 2019 07:58
Tip tackle all day there on Vunipola



"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite
19 October, 2019 08:00
Ridiculous-why isn’t Genia getting the ball in



"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

John Tee
John Tee
19 October, 2019 08:14
I'm hating the scrums, ref has to get a grip on not pushing straight.
Every scrum has turned and the ref has to suss why...

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
19 October, 2019 08:16
Plenty left in this game, I'd lie to see us get on top in the pack, Sinkler might be struggling a bit.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
19 October, 2019 08:20
Oh dear, revolving door Daly after Slade flew out



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite
19 October, 2019 08:21
Who’d have thought thought that constantly kicking to a quality back three might not be a great tactic? 🙄



"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
19 October, 2019 08:24
Daly....what has he done so far? Dropped the ball missing tackles, he needs a big moment, Sinkler....where did he come from?



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
19 October, 2019 08:29
Beales face after tackling Sinkler said it all - glad he was having a chuckle.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
19 October, 2019 09:07
TMO made to look a fool there, happy with the pass (with an antipodean accent) when clearly forward, Garces puts him right.
No injuries, Watson try, what could be better?



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

opti
Optimist
19 October, 2019 09:10
In Eddie we trust! Everything he’s done/said turned out to be true. That was a truly stunning performance 1-15

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
19 October, 2019 09:14
Never in doubt... (Sm152)

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
19 October, 2019 09:15
Quote:
Optimist
In Eddie we trust! Everything he’s done/said turned out to be true. That was a truly stunning performance 1-15

Mmm.....nearly spot on, a truly stunning performance 1-14 the only thing keeping Daly at 15 is the fact that Watson is so hot at 14.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
19 October, 2019 09:16
Genuinely never in doubt. That was very impressive. I thought Anthony looked back to his best but I am still at a loss to work out what it is that Elliot Daly brings to the team. Maybe he tells good jokes.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

MESSAGES->author
hasta
19 October, 2019 09:18
Watson really sharp,. Aussie tactically inept. That goal line stand on 55 minutes was excellent and really I think was game over.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
19 October, 2019 09:30
If England are going to refuse to play fancy stuff (is actually play like England) I can see them winning this.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
19 October, 2019 09:36
Some key moments in defence were inspirational but just as well as too much kicking the ball away could have cost us.

Aus were overpowered when all the finishers came on, a very comfortable last 15 minutes.

Not convinced by Slade & Tuilagi, has Slade lost pace? Lovely kicking to the corners by Ford.

Farrell's kicking off the tee was excellent, kept us ahead and the Aussie defence honest.

opti
Optimist
19 October, 2019 09:40
Question is whether you need Daly and Slade in the same team. Today the left boot belonged to Slade. If Nowell was fully fit, I think I’d put him on the wing and Ant to full back. As it is, I could go JJ for Slade and retain Daly. The truth is, you can perm pretty much any 15 from England’s squad.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
19 October, 2019 09:44
No obvious injuries and no cards. Cherry on the icing. I think we will need more v Ireland though ;-)

SarrieSaint
SarrieSaint
19 October, 2019 10:02
Quote:
ballsout
Farrell replacing Ford at 10...
Cringe.

(Sm92)

SarrieSaint
SarrieSaint
19 October, 2019 10:04
Quote:
joethefanatic
I thought Anthony looked back to his best but I am still at a loss to work out what it is that Elliot Daly brings to the team. Maybe he tells good jokes.

Haven't you watched the Rising Sons videos joe? he makes a lovely cup of coffee. Agree about Watson. He was very good today and read the intercept beautifully.

John Tee
John Tee
19 October, 2019 10:19
thought Watson was very close to MoTM and he looks genuine world class.
He will be our next full back very soon.

I thought Jones's plan to bring on a huge bench later really paid off.

SimonG19
SimonG19
19 October, 2019 10:23
A very unsurprising victory for me.

I also think we will win next week whoever we play but I better not say that or some folks will worry all week about my opinion.

For some bizarre reason.

MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k
19 October, 2019 11:06
I wasn't surprised we won today but the margin of victory did surprise me. Next week will be NZ & we will be underdogs but like you think we will win...



Adopted players: 2019/20 T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

P G Tips
P G Tips
19 October, 2019 12:32
Quote:
shipwrecked
TMO made to look a fool there, happy with the pass (with an antipodean accent) when clearly forward, Garces puts him right.
No injuries, Watson try, what could be better?

Spot on! No nonsense about physics or positioning of hands. Receiver in front of passer = forward pass!

Also liked Nigel Owens no nonsense dealing with NZ off ball incidents and the penalty try for no arms tackle/obstruction near the end.

PG

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
19 October, 2019 14:14
Quote:
joethefanatic
Genuinely never in doubt. That was very impressive. I thought Anthony looked back to his best but I am still at a loss to work out what it is that Elliot Daly brings to the team. Maybe he tells good jokes.

Elliot makes the tea ! (Sm128)



Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

DanWiley
DanWiley
19 October, 2019 16:15
"Receiver in front of passer = forward pass!"

But that isn't the advice on how to interpret a forward pass and hasn't been for years, in either hemisphere.

P G Tips
P G Tips
19 October, 2019 17:30
Which is exactly why I describe it as "nonsense" Dan.

The receiver in this case had overrun the passer - the referee thought it was forward and could see that it was when shown the replay- "clear forward pass". he did not need any "guidance" or interpretation - just applied the law.

PG

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
20 October, 2019 03:42
Quote:
P G Tips
Which is exactly why I describe it as "nonsense" Dan.
The receiver in this case had overrun the passer - the referee thought it was forward and could see that it was when shown the replay- "clear forward pass". he did not need any "guidance" or interpretation - just applied the law.

PG

Wouldn't that mean the receiver was off side rather than getting a forward pass? Penalty rather than a scrum?



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

P G Tips
P G Tips
20 October, 2019 07:11
Open play Joe, so no offside line.

PG

opti
Optimist
20 October, 2019 12:56
If the receiver is in front of the passer then I don’t care what law of physics applies, it’s a forward pass.

DanWiley
DanWiley
20 October, 2019 15:36
It's not even called a forward pass any more, they use the term throw forward.

If I'm running forward at 20mph and throw it backwards at 19mph, is that a forward pass? I think by some people's definition they'd say yes? But that means if I'm running at full flight I need to put 20mph of momentum in that ball backwards before it's moved an inch laterally.

That's just not feasible and not what you want to see. It would look really odd and defences would be laughing.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
20 October, 2019 15:39
Opti pretty much has it spot on for me.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

opti
Optimist
20 October, 2019 17:32
The old saying about fish over-rides the laws of physics every time.

DanWiley
DanWiley
20 October, 2019 17:57
Except on the pitch, where it matters.

opti
Optimist
20 October, 2019 18:02
Quote:
DanWiley
Except on the pitch, where it matters.

Apparently not though. I’ve seen plenty of passes which look ‘forward’ in old money, but no instances where the receiver is clearly in front of the ball but a forward pass is not awarded. Yesterday being a case in point.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
20 October, 2019 18:14
Quote:
DanWiley
If I'm running forward at 20mph and throw it backwards at 19mph, is that a forward pass? I think by some people's definition they'd say yes? But that means if I'm running at full flight I need to put 20mph of momentum in that ball backwards before it's moved an inch laterally.
.

Not clear what you are saying here? Its already got 20 mph forward motion because you are holding it.

The pass on Saturday was forward, the recipient was in front of the passer.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

DanWiley
DanWiley
20 October, 2019 18:21
Sorry, are you JUST going on about the tmo in the England game?

I don't see where the interest is there? I don't know what the tmo saw there, but sure the ball was thrown forward, the guy was in front of him, I don't really see much to talk about there.

I thought you were talking about the catcher catching the ball ahead of the where the thrower threw it relative to the pitch, which is totally within the laws.

hooter
hooter
20 October, 2019 18:29
All they have to do is draw a line thrust the centre of the ball as its passed and then when it caught as they do in football for judging offside.

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