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MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
20 October, 2019 15:41
Quote:
BathMatt53
Hatley? Dempsey? I though Bath werenít going down the HC route, initially at least.
For me the forwards are no worse than anyone elseís - itís the backs who have really disappointed in these last few games (rotation accepted).

And it's this ridiculous decision by Hooper that will get us relegated.

The only positive thing going on with the coaching at present is the lineout work being done by Chateris, everything else is hopeless.

ballsout
ballsout
20 October, 2019 15:56
London Irish and Worcester both win.

Just saying...

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
20 October, 2019 15:57
Scrums look OK to me tbh.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
20 October, 2019 15:58
Michael Cheika is looking for a new job !

Still I donít think the accountant would sanction that appointment, clearly Hooper and no interim defence coach is the budget option (Sm101)



Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
20 October, 2019 15:58
Quote:
ballsout
London Irish and Worcester both win.
Just saying...

Sale home losing to Glos was a huge result as well. Not sure that too many would have got todayís results correct.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

ballsout
ballsout
20 October, 2019 16:02
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
ballsout
London Irish and Worcester both win.
Just saying...

Sale home losing to Glos was a huge result as well. Not sure that too many would have got todayís results correct.

Away teams winning means this'll likely be an even tighter year at the bottom than last season.

dcsh
dcsh
20 October, 2019 16:57
Quote:
Old Bath Tub
Michael Cheika is looking for a new job !
I was just thinking the same thing, but the only way a big name is going to come is if they have total control of what they need to produce a winning team and it just never feels like that is the case at Bath.

ballsout
ballsout
20 October, 2019 17:10
To the earlier poster who said Bristol are an average club, couldn't be further from the truth. They're a great CLUB, on the up.

opti
Optimist
20 October, 2019 17:31
Us and Leicester battling it out then. How the mighty!

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
20 October, 2019 17:44
Quote:
Old Bath Tub
Michael Cheika is looking for a new job !
Still I donít think the accountant would sanction that appointment, clearly Hooper and no interim defence coach is the budget option (Sm101)

Bit of a false economy as relegation will mean that BC's expensive signings will all exercise their relegation clauses and leave.

ballsout
ballsout
20 October, 2019 17:55
Enough with the ignorant hysterics, even I'm not that bad.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
20 October, 2019 18:57
Quote:
ballsout
Enough with the ignorant hysterics, even I'm not that bad.

Thank you, all this talk about getting in Cheika is somewhat hysterical to say the least. As I said elsewhere you can't demand an immediate change of the current coaching team when they are not even in place yet!

It's one game, a pretty pathetic performance but one game. BO has a point, we conceded that last season. We just need to suck it up and look for progress however small I expect Hooper, Charteris and Hately to deliver a dominant pack but not overnight.

As for scoring tries I never expected Maxs1 and 2 to create much, give Dempsey some players to work with, we are missing, Roberts, Willison, Roko, Joe C, Rory Mc, JJ, Watson, plus Green and Saturdays injury.

Even if we had Faf de Klerk and Beauden Barrett they need some skill and experience outside to puncture a Prem defence.

Just enjoy England run at the RWC with our Bath lads, it going to be grim at the Rec for a while, demanding unrealistic change will do nothing but stress everyone out.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

ballsout
ballsout
20 October, 2019 19:59
Quote:
shipwrecked

Thank you, all this talk about getting in Cheika is somewhat hysterical to say the least.

By ignorant hysterics I meant every single one of OB's posts, but the rest of your post is fair enough.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
20 October, 2019 20:15
SW which of those are creative centres? I would have said Willison but he has disappointed. JR couldnít be further from creative. Besides which hasnít Dempsey worked with those players all year? The Maxís should be fine as raw material but Bath donít seem to have done anything with them (in fact they have regressed if anything).



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

gaz59
gaz59
20 October, 2019 20:56
Full strength Bristol team thump Bath missing shed load of nailed on starters

What a shocker?

But yes some like RP and Chudley really need to watch the video and ask themselves if they really think they are up to it

Massively disappointing and fair play brizzle, enjoy the glow but don't assume it sets the prem places in stone

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
21 October, 2019 01:10
Quote:
BathMatt53
SW which of those are creative centres? I would have said Willison but he has disappointed. JR couldnít be further from creative. Besides which hasnít Dempsey worked with those players all year? The Maxís should be fine as raw material but Bath donít seem to have done anything with them (in fact they have regressed if anything).

I think you have really put your finger on something there Matt. Virtually all the back field players seem to regress whilst they are with us. The two Maxís played in one of the Cup matches & didn't distinguish themselves & they didnít do so again on Friday. I reminded myself of MWís pedigree & saw that he was a pretty handy under 20 international & I recall that Wales were hoping they could select MC a couple of years ago through parental connections. Homer has also been looking somewhat lack lustre & Willison now seems to be disregarded for selection. This disappointing form & that of other backs at the Club may be due to something lacking in their training regime, who knows, but it is apparent & look how the likes of Woodburn & Devoto have performed for Exeter compared to when they were with us. I am not pointing the finger at individuals but querying what is happening to their development or maybe it is just the ups & downs of form.

P G Tips
P G Tips
21 October, 2019 08:03
BH -I wouldn't dispute your general point but I actually think both Woodburn & Devoto played quite well for us. I for one was very disappointed when we let them go. Neither was a first choice (although Devoto was a regular bencher) but they showed plenty of potential- all this under the Ford regime of course.

I was not surprised when they did well at Exeter (actually more surprised that Devoto has not since won a full cap).

Whatever M Ford's man management failings, he got the best out of our backs.


PG

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
21 October, 2019 08:06
Good points Bath Hammer, maybe we should re-assess the situation after Friday night when we play against our Ďold boysí if theyíre selected, if playing I think theyíll both score , I also think Levi and Roko will if selected ! (Sm128)



Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Rich.
Rich.
21 October, 2019 08:22
Quote:
gaz59
Full strength Bristol team thump Bath missing shed load of nailed on starters
What a shocker?

But yes some like RP and Chudley really need to watch the video and ask themselvres if they really think they are up to it

Massively disappointing and fair play brizzle, enjoy the glow but don't assume it sets the prem places in stone

Bristol at full strength would have started with Vui, Leilua and also Siali Piutau but, yes, compared to missing Bath players there was a big difference. I think that misses the point though. By the end of the game Bristol did not have many of their first choice backs on the field and yet they still played with creativity, pace and with great ball handling, particularly when considering how wet it was. Not only were they effective playing that way but also it was very entertaining to watch. Compare that with the Bath attack. As a bit of a comparison, it was like Bristol playing (in part) in the way Japan tried to do yesterday and Bath playing in the way South Africa did - but the big difference is that Bath do not have have the power game to succeed playing that way. South Africa were incredibly boring to watch but at least they can say they won. Now for sure with Joseph, Watson and all back the first choice backs should be able to create more but there will be many more times this season they will not be available and and they will still need others to provide the space and speed of ball for them to produce their magic.

It's early days though but the way they played Friday suggests the summer was mainly spent practicing box kicks and running into brick walls. Bath used to be ahead of the game and standard bearers in terms of creativity and entertainment. Just hoping that a few star backs can make the difference when put into a system with such a backward system is a big hope. That said eventually it got a top 6 place last season so maybe the same will be true this season. A fit Faletau for most of the season is a must though.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
21 October, 2019 08:29
Out of interest, who is the 3rd choice 8 at the moment with TF and possibly ZM injured? Ewels played there a long time ago but I canít think of anyone else who has significant top level experience there.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

opti
Optimist
21 October, 2019 08:55
I know it's a point that goes nowhere other than arguments as to whether injuries can ever be blamed on the club, and will always come across as excuse-making - but it is un-f'ing-believable the extent to which we seem to be repeatedly undermined by injuries. Two of our biggest young hopes for the season - TdG and Reid are already out. Faletau remains a long-way off; Mercer may well have crocked himself; Willison rarely gets through 2 consecutive games. You can pretty much guarantee that Underhill will come back, trip over his World Cup winner's medal and remain on the treatment table until, oh, about 2 February.

warrenball
warrenball
21 October, 2019 09:01
I think our problems go much deeper than just losing players to the WC or the change of DOR to Hooper, we have not played well even with all our star players and a respected DOR like Blackadder.

There has to be a much more significant factor at play. In saying we are not playing well, I am not talking about winning trophies, only one or two clubs each year can do that, but we all know if the team is playing well or not and apart from a period under Ford we have not played good rugby for a long time. Sure we have the occasional good game, but nothing consistent and getting progressively worse.

I have no inside information, but one thing is clear, for a long time we seem to have had trouble recruiting and I can't help the feeling that this is just not a happy or settled club. After Blackadder decided to leave I thought we had the opportunity to completely revamp our coaching structure, the interesting question is did BC genuinely think Hooper was the answer or did nobody else want the job?

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
21 October, 2019 10:30
Obviously no one any good wanted the job. Also, especially as the Accountant thought anyone who was good would be expensive and might upset his spread sheet, Mr H was a shoe in. Then they make up a story about long service and club culture to justify the appointment. However, in these modern times, without any track record of success and how to achieve it, everyman and his dog could see was going to be a disaster. Mr H is reputed to be a nice man, but probably too nice, and has to deal with a situation of poor player culture, lack of squad depth, virtually thread bare coaching staff who knows how to win things, brittle players as well as being pressured to keep the costs down.

To be fair, if Mr H carries the can and goes so should most of the non playing management including our rugby ignorant MD who appointed him.

By the way, what qualifications for recruiting rugby players has our recruitment man got? No doubt he can read a balance sheet as well.



Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.

The Jink Joseph.

Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
21 October, 2019 11:14
Bob his background is that he was head of recruitment at Toulouse for 3 years.

[www.bathrugby.com]



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
Rawce
21 October, 2019 11:28
See, that's how you do evidence people.

One of many concerns that always jumps out at me, and one I've heard fairly consistently post-loss for a number of years is along the lines of "we didn't train like that, we didn't replicate training on the pitch, didn't stick to the game plan" and similar. Are the instructions not clear, is the training not applicable to real match scenarios, is the training too rigid to limit heads up play what you see rugby, are players not listening, is it a breakdown in team communications, lack of a clear leader?

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
21 October, 2019 11:34
Quote:
BathMatt53
Bob his background is that he was head of recruitment at Toulouse for 3 years.
[www.bathrugby.com]

Matt, I've noticed that reasoned, referenced responses to BoB's rants are ineffective. The issue of recruitment isn't even relevant. We could do wih half backs but looking at our full squad post RWC it is extremely good.

Coaching recruitment is another matter. I just hope BoB doesn't embark on one of his 'Trumpian' rants that led to his ' sin binning' a while ago.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

opti
Optimist
21 October, 2019 11:47
Quote:
shipwrecked
I just hope BoB doesn't embark on one of his 'Trumpian' rants that led to his ' sin binning' a while ago.

I sincerely hope that he does.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
21 October, 2019 12:03
In all honesty I'm with you and at a loss as to why a combination of the Max's and Dempsey shouldn't be a great one - they are two very talented young men and have proven that...is it just slow ball from 9? I can't help wondering how good that team could be with a Faf DK or similar (can we take a 30 year old Peter Stringer?).



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
21 October, 2019 12:04
Yes - apart from our halfbacks who just constantly underperform I canít see anything wrong with our recruitment.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
21 October, 2019 12:12
Quote:
BathMatt53
In all honesty I'm with you and at a loss as to why a combination of the Max's and Dempsey shouldn't be a great one - they are two very talented young men and have proven that...is it just slow ball from 9? I can't help wondering how good that team could be with a Faf DK or similar (can we take a 30 year old Peter Stringer?).

Matt,I concede that I was harsh on the Maxs, my point was at least JR would have got us over the gain line.
Time and half backs are surely the answer, FdK was excellent for SA at the weekend we need similar calibre and a 10 who is an attacking threat in their own right, RP and JR did a job for Wales in the past but it's not what is needed in today's game.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

elegia
elegia
21 October, 2019 12:55
Quote:
CoochieCoo
No excuses that was awful but Brizzle were by a mile the better team and fitter which worries me and Nathan Hughes was a big acquisition for them. I think they will be very difficult to beat at AG


who hacked cc's account? own up!



http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Music/Pix/pictures/2011/7/13/1310579502636/New-Order-left-to-right-G-007.jpg

opti
Optimist
21 October, 2019 14:39
Quote:
shipwrecked
at least JR would have got us over the gain line

A combination of Burns + Roberts would have given Bristol a lot more to think about.

robtheh
robtheh
21 October, 2019 16:31
Quote:
Optimist
Quote:
shipwrecked
at least JR would have got us over the gain line

A combination of Burns + Roberts would have given Bristol a lot more to think about.

Got to agree with this.

I must confess that, as a Bristol fan (wholly in peace, I hasten to add), Iím always slightly relieved when I see you pick Priestland to start against us. Hoping that comment wonít come back to bite me on the proverbial!

It struck me, having watched the game back, that your boys didnít seem to give much in the way of attacking variety. You had variations upon a theme, sure, but not a lot of variety in kind.

Iím not fishing, or any of that crap, genuinely interested: is that something thatís been ongoing?
I remember watching you in the Ford Sr days and there was attacking variety by degree and in kind aplenty.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
21 October, 2019 16:59
Yes Robtheh we have been playing generally boring / poor quality rugby for a long while now - with the odd (increasingly rare) exceptions.

The problem with being a fan is that we generally have no choice than to live with it (and moan a lot) as do many fans of many teams playing many sports do all over the land!



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

robtheh
robtheh
21 October, 2019 17:10
Quote:
BathMatt53
Yes Robtheh we have been playing generally boring / poor quality rugby for a long while now - with the odd (increasingly rare) exceptions.
The problem with being a fan is that we generally have no choice than to live with it (and moan a lot) as do many fans of many teams playing many sports do all over the land!

Being so long in the Chumpionship, I completely get that!

This may be popping a can of worms...but why? What is it, personnel or coaching? I generally think that playing gripes come down to one or the other.

ballsout
ballsout
21 October, 2019 17:36
It's 100% coaching, and not just at senior level. It's been a muddle ever since Ford left. The way Bristol's A side tore Bath United apart at the start of last season was very telling.

robtheh
robtheh
21 October, 2019 19:28
Interesting, thanks all. Best of luck for the season.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
21 October, 2019 19:42
Quote:
Optimist
Quote:
shipwrecked
I just hope BoB doesn't embark on one of his 'Trumpian' rants that led to his ' sin binning' a while ago.

I sincerely hope that he does.

+100



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy
21 October, 2019 19:52
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
Optimist
Quote:
shipwrecked
I just hope BoB doesn't embark on one of his 'Trumpian' rants that led to his ' sin binning' a while ago.

I sincerely hope that he does.

+100

With you both on that one!

opti
Optimist
21 October, 2019 20:27
The can has been open so long, robtheh that the worms have all slithered off, been eaten or used as bait, been digested by various fish and fauna, sh@t out across the country and recycled into the eco-system as nutrients.

warrenball
warrenball
22 October, 2019 06:48
Robtheh, I think a lot of coaching staff get so dazzled by all the new technology that they forget that rugby relies on the core basic skills and more importantly needs imaginative thinking to work out a game plan and know how to implement it. Naturally just getting a great big pack and keeping the ball tight is the easiest to implement, especially for a novice DOR, but to unlock defences you need more original thinking and that comes with a willingness to take chances and experience. You can see other coaches working their way through this, some succeeding better than others.

Without this ability to come up with a successful game plan the natural fall back is on technology, fitness and body size (maybe an over-reliance on these contributes to more injuries) , but the most important factor must be the skill of the coach to come up with the plan and the backing of the owner to implement it. For reasons unknown this has not happened since Ford left.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
22 October, 2019 06:51
I might give breakfast a miss this morning.

We need to give the club several more weeks yet to see the problem and act on it.

Hoops deserves his chance whilst the RWC plays out, not just for our players to rest and return but also for any potential head coach targets to consider their future.

If we do recruit, Hoops could then take his seat in the stand, the players get new direction, Hats gets the forwards in step, Girvan gets good ball, bright future returns.

Not yet though.

robtheh
robtheh
22 October, 2019 08:59
Quote:
warrenball
Robtheh, I think a lot of coaching staff get so dazzled by all the new technology that they forget that rugby relies on the core basic skills and more importantly needs imaginative thinking to work out a game plan and know how to implement it. Naturally just getting a great big pack and keeping the ball tight is the easiest to implement, especially for a novice DOR, but to unlock defences you need more original thinking and that comes with a willingness to take chances and experience. You can see other coaches working their way through this, some succeeding better than others.
Without this ability to come up with a successful game plan the natural fall back is on technology, fitness and body size (maybe an over-reliance on these contributes to more injuries) , but the most important factor must be the skill of the coach to come up with the plan and the backing of the owner to implement it. For reasons unknown this has not happened since Ford left.

Yeah, I think you make a good point there: analysis can only take one so far.

Rinkadink
Rinkadink
22 October, 2019 12:41
Quote:
ballsout
It's 100% coaching, and not just at senior level. It's been a muddle ever since Ford left. The way Bristol's A side tore Bath United apart at the start of last season was very telling.

I've seen this repeated as a certainty throughout after the loss from multiple posters, but have a look at the players head to head and make a team from it without changing positions;

[www.bristolbearsrugby.com]

[mobile.twitter.com]

1. Obano (Woolmore)
2. Thacker
3. Afoa
4. Attwood
5. Joyce
6. Luatua
7. Thomas
8. Hughes

9. Uren
10. Sheedy (Priestland)
11. Protheroe
12. Hurrell
13. O'Connor (Clark)
14. Morahan
15. Piutau

Is that really unfair? Woolmore is a better scrummager than Obano who probably only has defence/carrying on his side in head to head but I had to include at least one. I actually thought Rhys did well for you guys, solid kicking and control which normally would ve the way to go in a derby in those conditions but when Bristol have such amazing handling and can compete/win collisions in the tight as well, it was probably only going to end one way. With the returning RWC players I'd say you would see a more balanced side between the two clubs. Clark was impressive for me on the night, hope his injury isn't too bad.

I don't understand why Stooke, Roberts and Cook were benched (starters for me) and Burns wasn't brought on around the 50 minute mark to up the tempo. That is coaching/selection, would it have been enough however?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/10/2019 12:42 by Rinkadink.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
22 October, 2019 13:10
Errr, bit one eyed that? You think that Joyce is better on paper than Ewels who is in the England elite squad? Even Dunn is supposedly closer to England than Thacker isn't he? I would have Ellis over Thomas for his all-round game. IMO on paper the teams were not that far apart (certainly not 30-dd points) except for a couple of positions (Morahan, Piutau) but the fact that Bristol played so much better was the difference on the night which has to come down to good vs bad coaching doesn't it?



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Rinkadink
Rinkadink
22 October, 2019 13:32
Quote:
BathMatt53
Errr, bit one eyed that?
Err, I've been quite generous.

You also haven't followed the rules, Ewels was 4 which was Attwood for Bris. I would pick the latter over the former. It was Joyce vs McNally at 5. Ellis over Thomas is a comedy gold suggestion on your reasoning. The only reason Dunn is involved with England over thacker is due to Jones' preference for bulk, most progressive nations would have Thacker coming off the bench as an impact sub any day. He's a similar size to Brits and he does fine, even at his age.

You genuinely don't think the likes of Luatua, Afoa, Hughes and arguably a couple more aren't light years ahead of their opposite number and that's not including Piutau and Morahan?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 22/10/2019 13:35 by Rinkadink.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
22 October, 2019 13:42
Light years? Yes, I genuinely don't. Sure, Afoa was brilliant in his day, but he's about 84 now isn't he? Ellis has been brilliant for us as a lineout option in particular and offers a lot around the field but clearly isn't a jackler like Thomas.

But then I am a Bath fan and you are a Bristol fan so I can see how we wouldn't agree as we only see snapshots of each others teams...



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

opti
Optimist
22 October, 2019 13:51
Whether you're right or wrong in terms of your selections Rinkadink doesn't really change the argument. Our frustration is that our coaching set-up rarely seems to bring about improvement in players - whether they are home-grown, bought in for potential or bought in fully formed. That's why not enough of our players would make a combined XV - not because we have an inherently inept squad of players.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
22 October, 2019 13:54
Mmmm... I think you need different glasses, Hughes was better than Mercer, but Mercer still scored when injured.
As for rules you might want to state some before complaining, if this is just a comparison from last week fine but if you compare best first fifteens when everyone is available then that would be so so different. don't forget you had 3 RWC returnees available.

The issue arises because we have a novel coaching structure, we have no idea if it will work many have serious doubts, who knows where we will be after Chrismas. If I were you I would make hay while the sun shines!



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
22 October, 2019 14:14
Quote:
shipwrecked
The issue arises because we have a novelthe wrong coaching structure, we have no idea if it will work many have serious doubts, who knows where we will be after Chrismas. If I were you I would make hay while the sun shines!

Rinkadink
Rinkadink
22 October, 2019 14:14
Quote:
shipwrecked
Mmmm... I think you need different glasses, Hughes was better than Mercer

I think you need better glasses as I stated players head to head and linked to the two team announcements (so you didn't even have to check yourself, you're welcome BTW). I also stated, if you had said glasses on, "With the returning RWC players I'd say you would see a more balanced side between the two clubs" - that's about as clear as it gets and you could have saved all that time and effort typing if you just worse them.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
22 October, 2019 14:23
You're right it was a brilliant idea to rub our noses in our defeat on our board, many thanks. Point remains we have coaching issues.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Rinkadink
Rinkadink
22 October, 2019 14:28
Quote:
BathMatt53
Christian Judge and Mike Williams = All Blacks in all but name!
Yeah, no. Afoa and Luatua are genuine world class/international standard. Judge and Williams with respect, are premiership squad/championship starters at present.

I find it telling how nobody has put forward their thoughts on a team aside from arguing that up is down right now.

Rinkadink
Rinkadink
22 October, 2019 14:36
Quote:
shipwrecked
You're right it was a brilliant idea to rub our noses in our defeat on our board, many thanks. Point remains we have coaching issues.
That's not what I'm doing at all, we are discussing the reasons why your team got thumped at Ashton Gate (another thing which likely contributed) on Friday.

Sorry if you've taken offense but if I really wanted to rub your noses in it, I would and it would be very apparent. I've tried to help you see why and have a conversation but if you want to keep pushing the coaching narrative (how many have you been through now with similar results?) and being hostile to outsiders then there's not much I can do.

It's also disheartening that you've changed subject to try and attack me instead of acknowledging you didn't even read my post nor engage in friendly discussion, it's a shame as I rate your posts usually.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 22/10/2019 14:41 by Rinkadink.

opti
Optimist
22 October, 2019 14:39
Here you go:

1. Obano
2. Thacker
3. Afoa
4. Ewels
5. Stooke
6. Louw
7. Underhill
8. Faletau

9. a.n. other
10. Burns
11. Rokadoguni
12. Cokanasiga
13. Joseph
14. McConnoghie
15. Watson

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
22 October, 2019 14:39
Quote:
Rinkadink
Quote:
BathMatt53
Christian Judge and Mike Williams = All Blacks in all but name!
Yeah, no. Afoa and Luatua are genuine world class/international standard. Judge and Williams with respect, are premiership squad/championship starters at present.

I find it telling how nobody has put forward their thoughts on a team aside from arguing that up is down right now.

Sigh.... Matt is being sarcastic, ( I hope), lets try again, team comparisons are useless and distinctly uninformative, the issue at Bath Rugby Club is either COACHING or the ground staff. most people think its the former. I may well be wrong as I clearly have the wrong glasses!



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

ballsout
ballsout
22 October, 2019 14:42
Quote:
Rinkadink
1. Obano (Woolmore)
2. Thacker
3. Afoa
4. Attwood
5. Joyce
6. Luatua
7. Thomas
8. Hughes

9. Uren
10. Sheedy (Priestland)
11. Protheroe
12. Hurrell
13. O'Connor (Clark)
14. Morahan
15. Piutau

(Sm22)(Sm22)(Sm22)

ballsout
ballsout
22 October, 2019 14:45
Looking forward to see Jake Woolmore and Joe Joyce lining up for England in the 6 Nations.

Bristol are what Exeter used to be, greater than the sum of their parts. Championship/Premiership standard players with a handful of world class players, coached exceptionally to play at a high level. The polar opposite to Bath at the moment.

Rinkadink
Rinkadink
22 October, 2019 14:46
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
Rinkadink
Quote:
BathMatt53
Christian Judge and Mike Williams = All Blacks in all but name!
Yeah, no. Afoa and Luatua are genuine world class/international standard. Judge and Williams with respect, are premiership squad/championship starters at present.

I find it telling how nobody has put forward their thoughts on a team aside from arguing that up is down right now.

Sigh.... Matt is being sarcastic, ( I hope), lets try again, team comparisons are useless and distinctly uninformative, the issue at Bath Rugby Club is either COACHING or the ground staff. most people think its the former. I may well be wrong as I clearly have the wrong glasses!

Please read the posts good sir, he didn't say those exact words but that there isn't a huge gap between the named players/on a par besides Morahan and Piutau. I made the joke to show it's a little absurd to make that claim.

I'm not saying there aren't coaching issues at all but first you have to look at the quality of players at your disposal. At full strength you are a top 6 side, but below that? I'm not so sure.

Rinkadink
Rinkadink
22 October, 2019 14:50
Quote:
ballsout
Looking forward to see Jake Woolmore and Joe Joyce lining up for England in the 6 Nations.

LOL - I'm looking forward to McNally and Judge doing the same.

Let's see your team, BO.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/10/2019 14:51 by Rinkadink.

ballsout
ballsout
22 October, 2019 14:56
Quote:
Rinkadink
Quote:
ballsout
Looking forward to see Jake Woolmore and Joe Joyce lining up for England in the 6 Nations.

LOL - I'm looking forward to McNally and Judge doing the same.

Let's see your team, BO.

Obano and Ewels are England squad players, and yet you have the mighty Jake Woolmore and Joe Joyce ahead of them? Judge was lining up and winning a Premiership final a few months ago.

I don't care about posting my XV on a message board. There's enough posts like that to last a lifetime. Once we get a few players back, Optimist's seems about right.

Your team won, well done them, and yet you go onto the opposition message board and tell us all how much better your players are. Do me a favour...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 22/10/2019 14:57 by ballsout.

Rinkadink
Rinkadink
22 October, 2019 15:06
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
Rinkadink
Quote:
ballsout
Looking forward to see Jake Woolmore and Joe Joyce lining up for England in the 6 Nations.

LOL - I'm looking forward to McNally and Judge doing the same.

Let's see your team, BO.

Obano and Ewels are England squad players, and yet you have the mighty Jake Woolmore and Joe Joyce ahead of them?

Read BO, read.

I have Obano starting and Ewels behind Attwood as that was the #4 competition. It wasn't #4 vs #5 or bench or make a team from any position as it's messy and serves less purpose. If we were doing that I'd have Roberts starting at 12 for example.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
22 October, 2019 15:11
Quote:
Rinkadink
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
Rinkadink
Quote:
BathMatt53
Christian Judge and Mike Williams = All Blacks in all but name!
Yeah, no. Afoa and Luatua are genuine world class/international standard. Judge and Williams with respect, are premiership squad/championship starters at present.

I find it telling how nobody has put forward their thoughts on a team aside from arguing that up is down right now.

Sigh.... Matt is being sarcastic, ( I hope), lets try again, team comparisons are useless and distinctly uninformative, the issue at Bath Rugby Club is either COACHING or the ground staff. most people think its the former. I may well be wrong as I clearly have the wrong glasses!

Please read the posts good sir, he didn't say those exact words but that there isn't a huge gap between the named players/on a par besides Morahan and Piutau. I made the joke to show it's a little absurd to make that claim.

I'm not saying there aren't coaching issues at all but first you have to look at the quality of players at your disposal. At full strength you are a top 6 side, but below that? I'm not so sure.

You are right I didn't read every post, sorry, but if you quote someone then alter the content what do you expect!

That is misrepresentation.

Quote:
Rinkadink
Quote:
BathMatt53
Christian Judge and Mike Williams = All Blacks in all but name!
Yeah, no. Afoa and Luatua are genuine world class/international standard. Judge and Williams with respect, are premiership squad/championship starters at present.

I find it telling how nobody has put forward their thoughts on a team aside from arguing that up is down right now.

I have not taken offence, but any meaningful discussion on this disappeared a long time ago. By all means post on our board, we welcome that but the team we played was about as good as we have left. We know we have an issue but it really is not the players.

Your side had better thrash our side at the Rec or I can see some serious ribbing coming your way.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Rinkadink
Rinkadink
22 October, 2019 15:19
Quote:
shipwrecked
Your side had better thrash our side at the Rec or I can see some serious ribbing coming your way.

Why would we thrash you? You'll have world class players back in the side by then, probably some other changes to your starting line up, playing at home, maybe against a Bristol side with a few injuries as they've played more premiership matches.

We're talking explicitly about Friday, I don't doubt that side was one of the best you could field (see earlier post regarding changes I would have made) but that was against a pretty much full strength Bears side, at home in front of 26k+ people.

A win at the wreck (tongue firmly in cheek)would be a brilliant achievement.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/10/2019 15:22 by Rinkadink.

ballsout
ballsout
22 October, 2019 15:21
Quote:
Rinkadink
but I had to include at least one.

re: Obano. How generous of you.

If we trumpet 94% availability in the build up and thrash Bristol at the Rec later in the season with all those players, scoring 7 tries to 1, I look forward to going onto the Bristol Board and showing you my combined team. I'll make an exception for that. Now kindly, be happy with the win, and stop trolling. Thanks.

Rinkadink
Rinkadink
22 October, 2019 15:24
Humour bypass this week, BO?

MESSAGES->author
hemington
22 October, 2019 15:26
Quote:
Rinkadink
Humour bypass this week, BO?

Oh sorry I didn't realise all this has been a joke - now I understand!

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
22 October, 2019 15:36
Quote:
Rinkadink
Why would we thrash you? You'll have world class players back in the side by then, probably some other changes to your starting line up, playing at home, maybe against a Bristol side with a few injuries as they've played more premiership matches.

This is the whole point of this thread.

The reason is that despite having young talent, good players and even great players we are failing to get the best out of them. Many on here believe to a greater or lesser extent that this is due to management/coaching. It's time to drop the players thing.

By the way it may be a "wreck" at the moment but we are developing the Rec to be a great place to watch rugby. We just want a team to grace it!



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Rinkadink
Rinkadink
22 October, 2019 15:38
Quote:
hemington
Quote:
Rinkadink
Humour bypass this week, BO?

Oh sorry I didn't realise all this has been a joke - now I understand!

No, it's not at all. That was your performance on Friday! [Can we only make po-faced, super serious contributions now? I think it's might better and more in tune with our clubs and rugby history to throw in a bit of light heartedness alongside]

Seriously though, with a weakened side, new coaches, and one premiership game, I don't see why the coaches are being hung out to dry already. You haven't played more expensive rugby since the Ford days and many complained even then crying out for conservative styles, it's not something that just happens overnight. You are far more suited to a power game with strong set piece right now, the try from the maul on Friday is a great example of it succeeding.

Rinkadink
Rinkadink
22 October, 2019 15:53
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
Rinkadink
Why would we thrash you? You'll have world class players back in the side by then, probably some other changes to your starting line up, playing at home, maybe against a Bristol side with a few injuries as they've played more premiership matches.

This is the whole point of this thread.

The reason is that despite having young talent, good players and even great players we are failing to get the best out of them. Many on here believe to a greater or lesser extent that this is due to management/coaching. It's time to drop the players thing.

By the way it may be a "wreck" at the moment but we are developing the Rec to be a great place to watch rugby. We just want a team to grace it!

I don't think many, if any would dispute the amount of top quality there, but under that is there the depth required? I'd say just about until the internationals are away and then it's open to debate. I also think there's a bit of knee jerking as it was a heavy loss... Bristol were absolutely humiliated (again) last season in Worcester and yet overall the year was a good one and we are still looking up plus building. The barf coaches may indeed not be the best out there but I don't think they're solely to blame, from the outside looking in.

As for the ground developments, it would be nice as an away day (If I can bring myself to visit *shudder*) and I hope and expect you to not get relegated. Where would be the fun in that as we'd lose one of my all-time favourite fixtures. I recall many on here basking in the joys of us suffering in the Championship year on year and almost going bust but I'd honestly hate that to happen to you. Love to beat you each and every time but take much more satisfaction from it when you're a great side/club. I'd happily settle for you being third best in the West country behind Bristol in first and Gloucester second. tongue sticking out smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/10/2019 15:57 by Rinkadink.

ballsout
ballsout
22 October, 2019 17:24
Quote:
hemington
Quote:
Rinkadink
Humour bypass this week, BO?

Oh sorry I didn't realise all this has been a joke - now I understand!

Oh I see. His combined team makes sense now.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
22 October, 2019 19:55
These are the sorts of threads that should be read out to the Bath players before local derbies.

'We have better players than you and a better stadium...'

Thanks for letting us know, very helpful.

Rinkadink
Rinkadink
22 October, 2019 20:44
Quote:
Optimist
Here you go:
1. Obano
2. Thacker
3. Afoa
4. Ewels
5. Stooke
6. Louw
7. Underhill
8. Faletau

9. a.n. other
10. Burns
11. Rokadoguni
12. Cokanasiga
13. Joseph
14. McConnoghie
15. Watson

Try again, literally only one of your players you listed could apply to Friday and this thread (#4, and Attwood is probably better but fair enough). It does nicely demonstrate the quality you have to return and the main reason why you got pumped; when you look at the difference in quality of players/depth rather than coaching. What I've been saying all along but carry on. If you fielded all those we could well have been looking at the opposite result.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
22 October, 2019 22:05
The bookies had Bris as 4 point favourites - that doesnít smack of one dominant team on paper (Ďlight years aheadí) and those guys have millions at stake. As it happens they didnít allow for the fact that Bristol played much better than expected and Bath much worse. I know that you will never admit that you could possibly be wrong but the evidence really doesnít stack up. I do admire the fact that you are so behind your players, thatís great. You are in the wrong place if you expect agreement with your opinion.

All the best for the rest of the season.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
23 October, 2019 08:51
Quote:
BathMatt53
The bookies had Bris as 4 point favourites - that doesnít smack of one dominant team on paper (Ďlight years aheadí) and those guys have millions at stake. As it happens they didnít allow for the fact that Bristol played much better than expected and Bath much worse. I know that you will never admit that you could possibly be wrong but the evidence really doesnít stack up. I do admire the fact that you are so behind your players, thatís great. You are in the wrong place if you expect agreement with your opinion.
All the best for the rest of the season.

+1 (Sm128)



Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Hercules Spoons
Hercules Spoons
23 October, 2019 12:49
Does Austin Healey advise the Bookies?
Heís got us down for relegation, perhaps he knows something I donít.
Youíve got some brilliant players returning soon, I wish you luck for the rest of the season ( except for the Bristol fixture of course)

Sit_Down
Sit_Down
23 October, 2019 12:53
So funny this thread.

Bath have some problems for sure. The returning players will help, but there are definitely more fundamental issues within the club. I think both teams will end up in mid-table. My only concern if I was a Bath fan would be that when the Leicester were bad last year, their returning players made no real difference because there was so much wrong behind the scenes.

As for this talk of a combined 15, Rinkadink was one eyed and I'm assuming the Optimist was just being facetious.

For what it's worth, I'm going to have a go at it and give my reasoning. I'm also going to include unavailable players! Some will agree, some disagree, but I'll try to be objective and have based it on an open, fast, high skilled game plan.

1. Woolmore - this is solely on scrummaging. Obano is better around the park but I want a stable scrum - I'd understand why some chose Obano
2. Thacker - not much to chose between Dunn & Thacker scrummaging and not enough to miss out on Thacker's all round ability imo.
3. Afoa - think this is a no brainer
4. Ewels - again, a no brainer
5. Vui - solid set, piece and awesome around the park, I like Stooke as well
6. Louw/Luatua - genuinely can't separate them
7. Underhill (though he'd need to improve his handling)
8. Faletau - assuming fully fit and back to best
9. Uren - think he's the best 9 of the lot
10. Sheedy - his consistency is the key here
11. Cokanasiga - easy
12. Hurrell - improved his ball skills and offers more than an aged Roberts
13. Joseph - easy
14. Watson - though Morahan is special
15. Piutau

So 8/9 Bristol and 6/7 Bath - but could easily be the other way around. I think what it suggests is what many have said - at the moment, Bristol just have a clearer understanding of their game. Apart from 2 or 3 guys, this squad has had 2 full pre-seasons together now.

ballsout
ballsout
23 October, 2019 13:24
Get Stooke, Louw and (definitely) Obano in there and I'd agree, but that's the different between Bath and Bristol tinted specs. Fair post overall though.

The real difference between the sides isn't the names on the team sheet, it's how the clubs are run, how the squad are managed, coached and nurtured.

Awp24975
Awp24975
23 October, 2019 13:41
Quote:
Sit_Down
So funny this thread.
Bath have some problems for sure. The returning players will help, but there are definitely more fundamental issues within the club. I think both teams will end up in mid-table. My only concern if I was a Bath fan would be that when the Leicester were bad last year, their returning players made no real difference because there was so much wrong behind the scenes.

As for this talk of a combined 15, Rinkadink was one eyed and I'm assuming the Optimist was just being facetious.
For what it's worth, I'm going to have a go at it and give my reasoning. I'm also going to include unavailable players! Some will agree, some disagree, but I'll try to be objective and have based it on an open, fast, high skilled game plan.

1. Woolmore - this is solely on scrummaging. Obano is better around the park but I want a stable scrum - I'd understand why some chose Obano
2. Thacker - not much to chose between Dunn & Thacker scrummaging and not enough to miss out on Thacker's all round ability imo.
3. Afoa - think this is a no brainer
4. Ewels - again, a no brainer
5. Vui - solid set, piece and awesome around the park, I like Stooke as well
6. Louw/Luatua - genuinely can't separate them
7. Underhill (though he'd need to improve his handling)
8. Faletau - assuming fully fit and back to best
9. Uren - think he's the best 9 of the lot
10. Sheedy - his consistency is the key here
11. Cokanasiga - easy
12. Hurrell - improved his ball skills and offers more than an aged Roberts
13. Joseph - easy
14. Watson - though Morahan is special
15. Piutau

So 8/9 Bristol and 6/7 Bath - but could easily be the other way around. I think what it suggests is what many have said - at the moment, Bristol just have a clearer understanding of their game. Apart from 2 or 3 guys, this squad has had 2 full pre-seasons together now.

Think this is pretty much spot on.... Iíd have Thacker in a heart beat, just glad he had an off game on Friday for a change. Usually destroys Bath, but wasnít at his best. But yes better than Dunn in my eyes. Francois over Luatua, but Luatua is a superb player, just Francois is so good. All the rest I agree with.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
23 October, 2019 13:43
Quote:
ballsout
Get Stooke, Louw and (definitely) Obano in there and I'd agree, but that's the different between Bath and Bristol tinted specs. Fair post overall though.
The real difference between the sides isn't the names on the team sheet, it's how the clubs are run, how the squad are managed, coached and nurtured.

100% agree with this post. The one person that isn't on that list is Lam and that's the one I would like most of all those in the Bristol set-up.

Wouldn't be miles away from that combined team either Sit_Down.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
23 October, 2019 13:52
Quote:
ballsout
Get Stooke, Louw and (definitely) Obano in there and I'd agree, but that's the different between Bath and Bristol tinted specs. Fair post overall though.
The real difference between the sides isn't the names on the team sheet, it's how the clubs are run, how the squad are managed, coached and nurtured.

[i151.photobucket.com]

Banachek
Banachek
23 October, 2019 15:28
The real difference between the sides isn't the names on the team sheet, it's how the clubs are run, how the squad are managed, coached and nurtured.

Got to admire the tenacity and the ability of you BO to get this in at every opportunity.. However that said there is one thing I would say regarding the general take on SH as all round nice guy. Actually I've seen at first hand an occasion where he wasn't so er nice. That said still got to give him and the coaching set up some time.

ballsout
ballsout
23 October, 2019 15:36
Lam is probably a ďnicer guyĒ than Hoops. Either way doesnít mean much.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
23 October, 2019 15:53
The deciding factor against Bristol was Hooper v Lam and this week against Exeter will be equally as bad with Hooper v Baxter.

Banachek
Banachek
23 October, 2019 16:03
Agree its irrelevant if he is or isn't "nicer" than PL , the point is even if he were the devil incarnate , he should still get a decent run to turn things round, before we resort to the torches and pitchforks (Sm139)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 23/10/2019 16:14 by Banachek.

Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
23 October, 2019 18:20
Trial and error with inserting image



Tic

https://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s128/millardm/Broken%20Record_zpsizv2qx2c.jpg

Got there in the end, CC, except that it's blurred on 'Ere, but clear on Photobucket!

Edit: Solved! Turned out to be bandwidth limitations on Photobucket!



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 29/10/2019 14:59 by Mike the Taxi.

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
23 October, 2019 18:41
Quote:
Mike the Taxi
Trial and error with inserting image

[www.rugbynetwork.net]



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
23 October, 2019 19:03
Pat Lam as Bath coach. Now you are talking and he would certainly match any of the other best Prem coaches like McCall and Baxter. Even with present squad, he would get the best out of them.



Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.

The Jink Joseph.

Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

Rinkadink
Rinkadink
23 October, 2019 19:11
Quote:
Sit_Down
As for this talk of a combined 15, Rinkadink was one eyed

My dude, you only picked one player who was available for Barf on Friday, same as me... does that mean you're being one eyed too?

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
23 October, 2019 19:21
I think that this conversation may have moved on.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

P G Tips
P G Tips
23 October, 2019 19:43
Let's not forget that the yellow card changed the whole complexion of the game. At 65 minutes there were 8 points in it and Bath still in with a shout -of a losing bonus point more likely than a win.

The sin binning changed that - multiplying the momentum Bristol had built and the pressure on Bath - who conceded 3 more tries (2 of them when injury reduced them to 13 men).

PG

dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865
23 October, 2019 19:57
For me, their breakout try - with the forward pass - changed the game.

Iím not saying we wouldíve won if it had been called back and, yes, we were certainly outplayed come 80 minutes, but that was the moment the game swung in their favour.

Rinkadink
Rinkadink
23 October, 2019 19:57
In balance though it should have been red for the yellow you did get and yellow for the high shot Brew (?) put in on Morahan as the second tackler. Was in line with it and it was pretty cheap and nasty. But yeah, the 13 vs 15 told.

ballsout
ballsout
24 October, 2019 10:00
Quote:
Rinkadink
In balance though it should have been red for the yellow you did get and yellow for the high shot Brew (?) put in on Morahan as the second tackler. Was in line with it and it was pretty cheap and nasty. But yeah, the 13 vs 15 told.

"It should have been red" - No, he wasn't even cited, so not a red card offence.

You want to talk about what should have been? How about a yellow card for flying in and tripping two players?

MESSAGES->author
Rawce
24 October, 2019 11:20
TBH, I'm surprised it wasn't a red/citing as it was a swinging arm right to the head. Maybe mitigated by Hurrell flying in low, but still.

However, Sheedy was very lucky not to see yellow with his cheaper and nastier shot on Brew and Homer. If Brew had made a meal of it, I think he'd have gone, so lots of credit to him for that.

ballsout
ballsout
24 October, 2019 11:41
Ref was in the crowd's pocket all night and I'm not usually one to comment on officials.

gaz59
gaz59
24 October, 2019 11:55
Conceding the try just before half-time was the game changer IMO. Haven't seen the replay but recall it was a knock on from receiving kick off that gave them attacking scrum on our 22 instead of sound exit

Going in at half time a point up would have been big morale boost. As it was Briz came out understandably feeling confident and lifted by a very positive home crowd. Result and score pretty unsurprising from there

elegia
elegia
24 October, 2019 12:40
Quote:
ballsout
Judge was lining up and winning a Premiership final a few months ago.

how many games did he play for sarries in the end?
thought he was with pirates at the start of the season?

just checked & he joined them on loan at the start of season according to this
mind you according to that he's 49, so doing pretty good for his age!



http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Music/Pix/pictures/2011/7/13/1310579502636/New-Order-left-to-right-G-007.jpg

ballsout
ballsout
24 October, 2019 13:48
Quote:
elegia
Quote:
ballsout
Judge was lining up and winning a Premiership final a few months ago.

how many games did he play for sarries in the end?
thought he was with pirates at the start of the season?

just checked & he joined them on loan at the start of season according to this
mind you according to that he's 49, so doing pretty good for his age!

He played in most of their games last year, and some of the season before. They wanted to sign him permanently but Bath got there first.

Rinkadink
Rinkadink
24 October, 2019 14:53
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
Rinkadink
In balance though it should have been red for the yellow you did get and yellow for the high shot Brew (?) put in on Morahan as the second tackler. Was in line with it and it was pretty cheap and nasty. But yeah, the 13 vs 15 told.

"It should have been red" - No, he wasn't even cited, so not a red card offence.

You want to talk about what should have been? How about a yellow card for flying in and tripping two players?

Lack of citing doesn't mean anything, last season Skelton took Hurrells head off and none of the officials picked it up and there was no citing after the match. As Hurrell was always lowish on Friday (no sudden dip) it should have been red, have you watched any of the world cup and/or read the updated high tackle framework? Swinging arm straight to the head is a red all day with no mitigating circumstances, Brew probably yellow for his shoulder to the face of Morahan... Just because he had been tackled by another player at the time otherwise (and arguably still) red.

As for Sheedy, in my mind it's either a yellow for foul play or not even a penalty. I think he was going for the ball (as he's entitled to do) and was cynically and deliberately blocked by Brew therefore not even a penalty or penalty against Barf. If you're saying he deliberately attacked Brew then it should have been yellow, agreed. Watching the incident on the reply Sheedy definitely played for the ball so reinforces the no penalty and officials got it wrong (Well, ref had it right initially but was informed incorrectly later). There's no way in hell this incident was worse than the two high tackles though.

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