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O/T Bideford lunacy
Discussion started by Duke of Earl (IP Logged), 06 November, 2019 09:01
MESSAGES->author
Duke of Earl
06 November, 2019 09:01
What do Devonians on this board think of this nonsense?
[www.devonlive.com]



Nothing can stop the Duke of Earl

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
06 November, 2019 09:06
Complete nonsense!

Should Whitby,Whitchurch, Whitehaven Whitland, Whitely Bay and Whitstable change their names as well?



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2019 09:17 by shipwrecked.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
06 November, 2019 09:52
Ridiculous, yet another case of people choosing to be offended then making a fuss.

DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy
06 November, 2019 09:52
Sums up so much of what is wrong with this country. It's seeking offence for the sake of seeking offence with no understanding of the source.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
06 November, 2019 09:55
Does this mean I will have to give up my bottle of White Lightening that I have with my breakfast every day?



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2019 09:56 by BathMatt53.

Eastbath
Eastbath
06 November, 2019 10:22
Now we know why that naughty Mr Hilter said "Ah yes, ve make a little hike for, for Bideford."

Can't find a video clip but here are the words to Monty Python's "North Minehead By Election"
[www.montypython.net]

P G Tips
P G Tips
06 November, 2019 11:12
The owner of the Blacksmith's Arms had the right answer!

PG

cb2
cb2
06 November, 2019 11:40
What about Mansfield? Surely no woman is welcome there?

DanWiley
DanWiley
06 November, 2019 11:45
I doubt there's any news here.

Political correctness gone mad gone mad.

TomReagan
TomReagan
06 November, 2019 12:12
Not sure what I think, but there's an obvious difference between claiming you're a 'little white town' and having white within your name. The context removes doubt- it does look a weird boast, and is interesting. Just as some people look to see racism there are others who get unnecessarily angry when any sort of questioning occurs and see this as further evidence of the collapse of what made Britain great etc, etc. Fair play to the Councillor for at least bringing the issue forward for discussion as he must have foreseen the flak from the Mail and Sun. I think I sympathise a little with him in part because when I saw his photo I initially assumed he was in the 'political correctness gone mad camp', an unfair assumption!

warrenball
warrenball
06 November, 2019 13:12
We cannot win, if you are white you do not understand racism, so any views no matter how sensible are immediately discounted, even the obvious point that the 'white' refers to houses, not people.

Tom, why do you describe it as a 'weird boast'? Is it not just a factual association with a famous person from those parts, just like referring to 'Herriot country' or 'Hardy country'?

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
06 November, 2019 13:18
Quote:
TomReagan
Not sure what I think, but there's an obvious difference between claiming you're a 'little white town' and having white within your name. The context removes doubt- it does look a weird boast, and is interesting. Just as some people look to see racism there are others who get unnecessarily angry when any sort of questioning occurs and see this as further evidence of the collapse of what made Britain great etc, etc. Fair play to the Councillor for at least bringing the issue forward for discussion as he must have foreseen the flak from the Mail and Sun. I think I sympathise a little with him in part because when I saw his photo I initially assumed he was in the 'political correctness gone mad camp', an unfair assumption!

For info:
When new buildings in towns were built they centered around churches. Many new churches were originally painted white lime wash which is a self sealing coating. These new towns/villages would often be named after a feature. So new church in the village is white, it gets named after the feature hence Whitchurch is quite a common name. Similarly places like Whitstable were named because they featured a new white stable in them etc.

Bideford gets its sub name from the fact that many of the houses were lime washed. That's all there is to it.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

TomReagan
TomReagan
06 November, 2019 13:52
As I said, I can see both sides. How many people know the background you've provided shipwrecked? The reason I don't think people would question a settlement having white in its name is because they are likely to know that such settlements existed centuries before black people emigrated here. Also, Whitchurch or Whitstable for example are easily interpreted. On the other hand it's not inconceivable that years ago as Britain became home to people from the empire a council felt it worth noting that Bideford was unaffected by such changes. If that sounds absurd, it's worth remembering that in the 1960s and perhaps later b and b's could say 'No dogs, blacks or Irish'. I remember watching a series called Black and White, filmed in Bristol and couldn't believe what I saw. I wouldn't for a second think Bideford council would be guilty of such racism, but the Councillor is noting that many people are making the wrong inference so why not offer the context and remind visitors of the town's links with a well known author too?

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
06 November, 2019 14:09
Problem is Tom that the default position is that it is assumed to have racist tone so lets confirm it by removing the word even when it has a different meaning.
This kind of response makes things worse not better, if you erase the word you are erasing the history as well, let people ask the question and educate at the same time.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy
06 November, 2019 14:13
Quote:
shipwrecked
Problem is Tom that the default position is that it is assumed to have racist tone so lets confirm it by removing the word even when it has a different meaning.
This kind of response makes things worse not better, if you erase the word you are erasing the history as well, let people ask the question and educate at the same time.

Problem is too many are unwilling or incapable of educating themselves before crying foul.
Still, that's not a reason to make or propose a change.

MESSAGES->author
Duke of Earl
06 November, 2019 14:22
It's raising the spectre of racism where, in this case, none exists or is intended.



Nothing can stop the Duke of Earl

jameswood14
Woodpecker
06 November, 2019 14:23
I love these stories some idiot thinks of something stupidly PC to do then everyone else gets worked up.

I liked the Oxford Uni clapping one.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
06 November, 2019 14:27
Another example comes to mind, Old Prostates Rugby Club were recently asked to take down a sign saying "Old Pro’s welcome here". That doesn’t mean that they run the Red Light area of Bath and should be confined forthwith. They are simply out there behind the sheds having a bit of fun at the weekend. Where the harm in that? winking smiley



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
06 November, 2019 14:30
Quote:
Woodpecker
I love these stories some idiot thinks of something stupidly PC to do then everyone else gets worked up.
I liked the Oxford Uni clapping one.

We need details Woody!



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

TomReagan
TomReagan
06 November, 2019 14:41
Again being devil's advocate, the Councillor will note that he is educating people. How many people would care enough to research it themselves. I don't think this is anything like as ridiculous as the examples that have followed which I wouldn't attempt to defend

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
06 November, 2019 14:47
Quote:
TomReagan
Again being devil's advocate, the Councillor will note that he is educating people. How many people would care enough to research it themselves. I don't think this is anything like as ridiculous as the examples that have followed which I wouldn't attempt to defend

It's not the councillor's job to "educate" people, he should have more important things to do unless of course he's like many that add no value.

jameswood14
Woodpecker
06 November, 2019 14:47
Here you go Shipwrecked and its clearly not April:

It is a time-honoured custom signalling approval, acclamation and enthusiasm, but students at Oxford University are to replace clapping at student union events with “silent jazz hands” amid fears that applause could trigger anxiety.

Officers at the student union argued that clapping, whooping and other loud noises presented an “access issue” for some disabled students who have “anxiety disorders, sensory sensitivity and those who use hearing aids”.

They passed a motion to replace clapping with jazz hands this week at the first meeting of the Student Council of the new academic year. “Jazz hands” involves waving both hands by the sides of the body at about shoulder height. It is the British Sign Language expression for applause.

Roisin McCallion, welfare and equal opportunity officer of the Oxford University Student Union, proposed the motion to make the union’s democratic events “more accessible and inclusive for all, including people who suffer from anxiety,” she said.

warrenball
warrenball
06 November, 2019 15:17
Tom, the problem with your argument is that Charles Kingsley could in some people minds bring up the spectre of racism more than the innocent phrase 'little white town'. Kingsley was part of a committee who defended the then governor of Jamaica for violently putting down rioters. Of course a reasonable person would argue this must be seen in its correct historical context and there were very few woke people in those days.

I think my main gripe these days is that the protagonists only want racism to be seen through the prism of the transatlantic slave trade, whereas it exists in almost every society and has very little to do with colour of skin.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
06 November, 2019 15:19
Oh dear, so the majority have to accommodate the minority. Its sensitive but does it mean if no-one has hearing or anxiety issues they can all go cheering like crazy?

What happens when these students come to the Rec, do 20,000 people have to do silent "Jazz hands" when Bath score a try. (Mind you with the Rec so subdued sometimes perhaps we have that anti-anxiety policy already Implemented.)

One of the things about disability is that the disabled want to be treated like everyone else. I'm not saying its not a consideration but there has to be a balance!



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

jameswood14
Woodpecker
06 November, 2019 15:23
Didnt the black and white minstrels do that action.....oh dear

DanWiley
DanWiley
06 November, 2019 16:24
By the noise we make I think we've taken up the jazz hands thing at the rec.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
06 November, 2019 17:07
Quote:
DanWiley
By the noise we make I think we've taken up the jazz hands thing at the rec.

(Sm22)

MESSAGES->author
Rawce
06 November, 2019 17:16
As always, read beyond the headlines - [www.snopes.com]

I do love it when people choose to be offended and then make a fuss about others who have chosen to be offended (or maybe not) and then made a fuss; it's always a good popcorn opportunity.

opti
Optimist
06 November, 2019 17:30
Would have been interesting to know how many people could have explained the provenance of 'Little White Town' prior to this debate. Probably not everyone in Bideford itself, and certainly very few visitors to the place. Rewording it as 'Charles Kingsley's Little White Town' is sensible from almost every point of view. It is after all, just a marketing slogan - not a historical proper noun.

It avoids the possibility that it can be misinterpreted - which is real and understandably of concern; and it's a better, more elucidating slogan, and would have the support of any tourism marketing person.

One of those things a bit like the Royal Family to me - if it didn't exist and someone proposed it as an idea, they'd be laughed out of the room. So why is anyone so desperate to hang on to it.

warrenball
warrenball
06 November, 2019 21:06
Why not just add 'other coloured houses also available' after 'little white town', problem solved.

Lost Soul
Lost Soul
07 November, 2019 05:57
Feel sorry for the beluga whale as if translated from Russian it means white whale. Shall we start a campaign to rename it.
Maybe the Persil whale or the Daz whale

sid the seagull
sid the seagull
07 November, 2019 11:41
I think that Blackburn should be renamed as it clearly suggests that they’re just a bunch of arsonists.

HOP

opti
Optimist
07 November, 2019 12:36
Bear in mind that 'Little White Town' isn't actually the name of the place. That is Bideford. Nobody's asked for the town to be re-named. They are just suggesting a new strap-line which seems quite sensible.

sid the seagull
sid the seagull
07 November, 2019 13:17
I merely point out that there is nothing inherently wrong with the word white just as there isn’t with the word burn.

HOP

opti
Optimist
07 November, 2019 13:50
Of course there isn’t, but you know perfectly well that that is not the basis of the discussion.

cb2
cb2
07 November, 2019 14:08
I believe that in modern England, everybody who saw the sign would think that the origin of the phrase could not possibly be a racist one. There is no way a place would be allowed to call itself Bideford "the place where XYZs aren't welcome", or Taunton "only XYZs allowed". I think it is great that our towns and villages have such history and names are important in a language.

So here's to: Beer in Devon, Horneyman in Kent, Spanker Lane in Derbyshire and Splatt in Cornwall.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2019 14:11 by cb2.

Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
07 November, 2019 14:40
[www.sheffieldforum.co.uk] or Letsby Avenue, in Sheffield

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
07 November, 2019 15:00
Quote:
cb2
I believe that in modern England, everybody who saw the sign would think that the origin of the phrase could not possibly be a racist one. There is no way a place would be allowed to call itself Bideford "the place where XYZs aren't welcome", or Taunton "only XYZs allowed". I think it is great that our towns and villages have such history and names are important in a language.
So here's to: Beer in Devon, Horneyman in Kent, Spanker Lane in Derbyshire and Splatt in Cornwall.

For info: Derivation of Spanker Lane is not actually what some may think. A spanker is actually a spinnaker, which is of course a sail. So why do you need sails in the middle of Derbyshire? Answer ….. windmills!
Before anyone says anything I do realise I'm a bit of a sad case!



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

sid the seagull
sid the seagull
07 November, 2019 15:29
Well excuse me for my digression what a silly old Sidney I am.

FLAP

cb2
cb2
07 November, 2019 16:54
Letsby Avenue must be in Norwich.

opti
Optimist
07 November, 2019 16:59
Quote:
sid the seagull
I think that Blackburn should be renamed as it clearly suggests that they’re just a bunch of arsonists.
HOP

Quote:
sid the seagull
I merely point out that there is nothing inherently wrong with the word white just as there isn’t with the word burn.
HOP

Except there's no analogical relevance. Nobody's trying to suggest they should change the name Bideford because it's offensive to old ladies.

sid the seagull
sid the seagull
07 November, 2019 17:44
Oh FFS I know that.
I was merely making a point about the mis-appropriation of the meaning of words thro a deliberate absurdism, strewth.

HOP

Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
07 November, 2019 17:48
[www.google.com]

It's definitely in Sheffield, with a police operations complex there!

(unless you are referring to the Norfolk accent?)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2019 17:49 by Mike the Taxi.

cb2
cb2
08 November, 2019 11:29
It's in Norwich.

Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
08 November, 2019 13:11
I bow to your more persuasive argument!


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