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dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865
13 March, 2020 10:08
An Exeter academy graduate leaving the club to better his career elsewhere?

Perhaps something is rotten in the state of Devon...

Seriously, that does sound like good news for us as I can't imagine Sale would be signing Hill and Lozowski unless they're doing some creative squad management/accounting.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
13 March, 2020 10:09
Quote:
BathMatt53
With all of their other inside centre options would they really get Sam Hill and Lozowski? Unless they see Lozowski as a 10 (or 13?).
[www.bbc.co.uk]

Very good and well balanced squad assembled by Diamond, they are going to be the one's pushing Exeter next season.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
13 March, 2020 10:11
Quote:
BathMatt53
With all of their other inside centre options would they really get Sam Hill and Lozowski? Unless they see Lozowski as a 10 (or 13?).
[www.bbc.co.uk]

Sale have Du Preez and AJ MacGinty at 10 and a host of centres is Hill simply a replacement for Redpath?



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
hasta
13 March, 2020 10:17
Quote:
Bathovalballer
We desperately need an uplift of a signing, particularly in the half back area. But with Flouw's going, we now need a top class jackler capable of winning the ball. We have no one of his ilk and, it has been a weakness of ours for years, in our losing out in one to one arm wrestles. Francois was the best we had and how we will contest the breakdown sufficiently next season is going to be interesting to put it mildly.

He's called Sam Underhill.

Ali1969
Ali1969
13 March, 2020 10:22
You never know BathMatt, Sale are building a hugely impressive squad along with many other teams. Whilst we all know that transfers are hugely complicated and very much "Cloak & Dagger" it does amaze me why we are so slow in comparison to other clubs to tie our targets down and announce their signings to their supporters.

You would think given the past 2 weeks if the management have any sort of connection with the mood of the supporters they would realise that the club and more importantly the supporters need a boost. Instead we hear our talented highly thought of 2nd row Davies is leaving, Club legend Louw is retiring and big Joe is still suffering physically and mentally with no return planned in the near future.

I believe someone previously mentioned the old "Chivalry" whereby clubs used to not announce signings from a fellow club until after their matches with that club had been completed, however in this day and age I think clubs do not follow that rule any longer.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
13 March, 2020 10:44
Quote:
hasta
Quote:
Bathovalballer
We desperately need an uplift of a signing, particularly in the half back area. But with Flouw's going, we now need a top class jackler capable of winning the ball. We have no one of his ilk and, it has been a weakness of ours for years, in our losing out in one to one arm wrestles. Francois was the best we had and how we will contest the breakdown sufficiently next season is going to be interesting to put it mildly.

He's called Sam Underhill.

I think that Flo's retirement might enable San Underhill and Zach Mercer to kick on, we really are not short of back row.
Ellis, Baylis, Mercer, Faletau, Reid and a couple of mobile second rows as well.



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/03/2020 10:55 by shipwrecked.

dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865
13 March, 2020 10:50
Mercer is a star already, pretty much, but Reid is the really exciting one, for me. He looked superb in his couple of outings before he picked up his injury. And now he's bulked up a bit, Bayliss is growing into a very good player. Bayliss (22) is almost exactly 12 months older than Reid (21), so the two are still right in the infancy of their careers. Exciting to see them develop.

Seeing as Flouw will still be living in Bath, it'd be nice if he could spare a couple of hours each week to slip on his boots and work with these guys. No better mentor for them to learn from.

john fox
johnnyf
13 March, 2020 12:05
Ali1969 you make a very good point.
In this modern world of fast movement of information we certainly do seem to be a Club that isn't quite up to speed.
Selling your product and keeping your customers (fans and supporters) happy is a fundamental requirement of business promotion.
Waiting for all our very talented young players to mature is not going to be enough. We certainly do need a serious uplift as of now if that's not too late already.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
13 March, 2020 12:18
Quote:
Ali1969
You never know BathMatt, Sale are building a hugely impressive squad along with many other teams. Whilst we all know that transfers are hugely complicated and very much "Cloak & Dagger" it does amaze me why we are so slow in comparison to other clubs to tie our targets down and announce their signings to their supporters.
I believe someone previously mentioned the old "Chivalry" whereby clubs used to not announce signings from a fellow club until after their matches with that club had been completed, however in this day and age I think clubs do not follow that rule any longer.

Perhaps because of the same indignation displayed by fan when Mrs Pollard decided she preferred France to the West Country.
Not sure you can have it both ways. The second problem is, "Who are we targeting?" I presume you are talking signing a 10, same issue as last week, who is available?



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Ali1969
Ali1969
13 March, 2020 16:00
Shipwrecked you have a point but did the club actually announce the signing of Pollard? Cannot recall the big announcement. What I do remember is loads of media reports and the club refusing to comment.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
13 March, 2020 17:38
Quote:
Ali1969
Shipwrecked you have a point but did the club actually announce the signing of Pollard? Cannot recall the big announcement. What I do remember is loads of media reports and the club refusing to comment.

Yes, very true but someone had to have let the cat out of the bag as 'news'. I get the feeling that the bag is tied shut these days.

After all there has been no indication that Ben Spencer is coming or Wil for that matter. On the other hand this seasons signings Redpath and Webb are on the Offy.

Sadly Webb is going to be a complete waste of money!!!!!



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

charlieboa
charlieboa
15 March, 2020 12:38
The rugby paper has chris cook as the man to move on to make room for ben spencer.

Says bris are thinking of trying to sign him. Will be playing for england this time next year.....

On paper that is a big upgrade imho

charlieboa
charlieboa
22 March, 2020 07:48
The rugby paper has lozowski signing a 1 yr contract with toulouse....

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
22 March, 2020 08:06
Quote:
charlieboa
The rugby paper has lozowski signing a 1 yr contract with toulouse....

Didnít they also want Freddie? Makes sense if nobody in the prem wants to stump up a fee for him. Itís a tough one to ask your staff to take a pay cut and then drop £100k on a new player...



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

charlieboa
charlieboa
22 March, 2020 08:25
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
charlieboa
The rugby paper has lozowski signing a 1 yr contract with toulouse....

Didnít they also want Freddie? Makes sense if nobody in the prem wants to stump up a fee for him. Itís a tough one to ask your staff to take a pay cut and then drop £100k on a new player...

Totally agree. Difficult times.

Bit concerning currently that the only answer we have to our midfield issues is a 20 yr who has barely played in the last few years.....or a 19 yr old in the academy who has never played a first team game....or tdg who they seem to view as a 15.

All seems a little irrelevant with everything else going on but would be nice to get some good news when possible...

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
22 March, 2020 08:31
If (when) Prem rugby join the rest and bring an end to the season I guess there is no reason not to announce leavers and joiners. In one report I read (and this crosses into the other thread) was that BT sport wanted to string out any announcement as long as possible to stop some people cancelling subscriptions - given that there will be no rugby for at least 5-6 months.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
22 March, 2020 08:50
Thought FB was linked with Lyon?

charlieboa
charlieboa
22 March, 2020 08:53
Quote:
OutsideBath
Thought FB was linked with Lyon?

Think that was the rumour in trp a few weeks back yep... along with other options in top 14, japan and super rugby

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
24 March, 2020 08:28
[www.somersetlive.co.uk]

Interesting comment from Toby Flood at about 28 mins on the RUW podcast. He says that when the clubs agreed to take 25% cuts (everyone except Exeter) they also agreed to not take advantage of this and poach each otherís players. This means that those out of contract are potentially in limbo.

Also interesting discussion on whether the salaries will ever go back up or whether the 25% reduced salaries become the Ďnew normalí given that this crisis has underlined how unsustainable the whole Business model is in English rugby.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
hemington
24 March, 2020 09:12
Anyone know what is happening to the rich French clubs - are they managing or having to reduce wages?

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
24 March, 2020 09:37
Quote:
hemington
Anyone know what is happening to the rich French clubs - are they managing or having to reduce wages?

No idea, but given you have to fill out a form to walk your dog they are probably quite passive about accepting a wage cut in France. I suspect not though.



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

dannyf2
dannyf2
25 March, 2020 19:10
Missing out on AL is gutting, but entirely predictable. What's the plan now?

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
25 March, 2020 19:34
Quote:
dannyf2
Missing out on AL is gutting, but entirely predictable.

Meh, if he wanted to come he would have come, rather he didnít if he was just fishing for a deal...of maybe he was desperate and Sarries were holding out, who knows.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
25 March, 2020 21:47
[www.therugbypaper.co.uk]

Cook to Bris?



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
25 March, 2020 22:05
I'm not sure he is a Bath star but there we go. How many games will he get behind Randall and Uren I wonder. I'm content with our 9 cover not so our 10 situation.



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

opti
Optimist
26 March, 2020 11:07
Spencer/Chudley/Green/Fox is a very decent scrum-half roster.

Priestland and nobody else is a very worrying fly-half roster.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
26 March, 2020 11:16
Green is also out of contract. Didnít they also say that Chudley was / is?



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
26 March, 2020 11:36
Quote:
Optimist
Spencer/Chudley/Green/Fox is a very decent scrum-half roster.
Priestland and nobody else is a very worrying fly-half roster.

Still no confirmation that we have signed Spencer though so 9 is a concern.

I agree going with only Priestland as a recognised 10 is daft.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
26 March, 2020 11:38
Yes, 9, 10 isn't clear yet is it, If Priestland gets a knock we are proverbially screwed!



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Bepetas
Bepetas
26 March, 2020 14:59
Another interesting area is Loosehead, if Lucas Noguera goes and Beno Obano gets an England call up that leaves Lewis Boyce, Nat Catt and Will Vaughan. Nathan Catt is great but he has had injury trouble, how much cover do we need? Arthur Cordwell is in the Academy, he looked good in a preseason match against Exeter.

charlieboa
charlieboa
26 March, 2020 17:43
Quote:
Bepetas
Another interesting area is Loosehead, if Lucas Noguera goes and Beno Obano gets an England call up that leaves Lewis Boyce, Nat Catt and Will Vaughan. Nathan Catt is great but he has had injury trouble, how much cover do we need? Arthur Cordwell is in the Academy, he looked good in a preseason match against Exeter.

Its a good shout. If catt was fit i think we would be fine but in the quins game radio commentary he said he would be out for another year at least!

I wouldnt be that relaxed going into next season just with obano/boyce/vaughan/cordwell unless the consensus is that cordwell is up to playing some first team rugby now. Vaughan has looked v hit and miss in the games i have seen.

I at least have faith in hatley extracting max potential out of our frontrowers.

dannyf2
dannyf2
26 March, 2020 18:06
Sad for Catty. He's missed so much rugby. Will be a miracle if he makes it back. Good luck to him

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
26 March, 2020 18:45
Aaah Catt I'd forgotten about him, my first thought was Mike!

john fox
johnnyf
26 March, 2020 21:46
The Chronicle article has it that the club will announce the Spencer (Ben) move to Bath in the next few days.

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
26 March, 2020 23:01
Good he is just what we need..............except he will probably be off with England all of the time!!

Ali1969
Ali1969
27 March, 2020 09:20
I have to say the news of AL going to France for a year is really disappointing, however what that does show coupled with BV's comments - whatever the rugby public outside the Sarries camp think that club for all it's wrong doings has struck a real cord with their players so much so that the majority are wiling to risk their international careers and the ones leaving bar a couple maybe?? only want to leave for a year and then return, such is their desire to play for the club/management.

The question I have is 2 fold:

1. If and when rugby resumes and assuming the remainder of this season is written off and Sarries are in whatever is left of the Chmpionship (given the financial issues this epidemic has caused to already cash strapped clubs alas it is inevitable without help many great clubs will fold) is it really fair for these clubs to have to face a Sarries side which would probably win the premiership again if they were in it?? what are we achieving or trying to achieve - Surely we want a competitive second tier or not bother at all.

2. How on earth are Sarries going to remain under the salary cap with basically the same squad unless those players are willing to take an enormous salary cut or further creative accounting, is there a case for Premiership rugby/RFU stepping in and forcing the break up of the squad, personally that leaves a really unpleasant taste in my mouth, however if allowed all we will achieve is Sarries missing for one year and nothing then has changed or been achieved and the questions will once again start about "cheating" and that is not fair for such a great club like Saracens. I know how we all would feel if it were our club. The idea is that you take your punishment, learn from it and return a changed beast, not take a years sabbatical and then normal service is resumed.

I cannot deny I am somewhat jealous of the rapport and belonging the club has developed within it's playing staff ,(Yes I know within a corrupt and dishonest environment)something I honestly believe many clubs in this premiership including ours had once and lost when the game went professional, except for Exeter who to be fair are relatively new to the Premiership and as such maybe have not been tainted in the same way other clubs have.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
27 March, 2020 09:39
Quote:
Ali1969

The question I have is 2 fold:

1. Surely we want a competitive second tier or not bother at all.

2. How on earth are Sarries going to remain under the salary cap with basically the same squad

The second tier hasn't been competitive for a long, long time. Bristol, Irish and now Newcastle have stormed it in recent years.

As has been posted a few time on here - they will ave a hugely different squad. They will have at least a dozen top earners going before they return (and there is no cap next year). Kruis, Skelton, Koch, Wigglesworth, Spencer, Williams, Figallo, Maitland, Barritt, Clark to name a few.

Its not like they were even hugely over for the couple of seasons that they had the big fines - admittely it could have had a big effect in terms of getting more players of additional quality but it wouldn't be tough to smash £1m salary off the bill - Kruis, Skelton and Williams alone probably cover that?



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

opti
Optimist
27 March, 2020 10:18
'I have to say the news of AL going to France for a year is really disappointing'

'the majority are wiling to risk their international careers'

I don't think any of them are risking their international careers. Lozowski doesn't have an international career and won't at any point while Eddie Jones is still in charge. He was desperate to stay at Sarries, and I'm pretty sure that clubs like Sale/Bath reflected on the benefit of a loan deal and came to the fairly obvious conclusion that there wasn't one. A year in France makes perfect sense for AL.

England will benefit from Vunipola having a year in the Champ, as he will be able to unashamedly focus his fitness around the International rugby calendar. Itoje tried on a loan move to France and the Clubs quite rightly said, 'sure, but not if you want to continue playing for England'. Eddie will pick him whether he's playing for Beccles & Bungay 2nds or in the Champ. Likewise Faz.

Jamie George could suffer as LCD is probably already a better player. Mako too as he is under pressure from Genge and rarely fit for more than a couple of games in a row.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
27 March, 2020 10:44
I would be amazed if any of these starts play more than half a dozen championship games next year - probably even fewer. I think that they will play international, some baa-baas, etc and there was talk of a couple of Sarries exhibitions games but who would want to play them under the circumstances is beyond me - hardly an advert for English rugby.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
27 March, 2020 11:17
Quote:
Optimist

England will benefit from Vunipola having a year in the Champ, as he will be able to unashamedly focus his fitness around the International rugby calendar. Itoje tried on a loan move to France and the Clubs quite rightly said, 'sure, but not if you want to continue playing for England'. Eddie will pick him whether he's playing for Beccles & Bungay 2nds or in the Champ. Likewise Faz.

I do wonder if Eddie is trying to move away from BV dependancy by tinkering with Curry. Also he needs to have an alternative to Farrell, who is the upcoming IC for the next world cup?



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

gaz59
gaz59
27 March, 2020 11:30
I'm intrigued to see just how well SarriesLite go in the Prem when they get back in

Arguably a good indicator of where they would have been had they not breached the cap

Ali1969
Ali1969
27 March, 2020 14:15
I think many of you have missed the point of the post - I am on about the desire to remain at a club with such a tarnished reputation which does and will continue to rub off on players - honestly how many on here honestly believes that the players were totally unaware of the financial situation ?? - in relation to high earners - I am sorry I am not buying that the likes of both Vunipola's, Daly - especially prising Billy and Daly from Wasps, Farrell just to name 4 then include Itoje and George are not commanding massive wages.

In relation to AL (and he will be on a handsome wage as well) I was referring to his desire to only leave Sarries on a year deal (basically a loan) in order to return to the club along with other high earners such as Earle, Malins and Singleton.

In relation to where Sarries were financially at the time of relegation we will never truly know as they refused a forensic audit of their accounts. So in reality you are taking their word (Sarries) the word of a proven Liar as the truth??? An unsafe witness as you would say.

As for the Championship we will be lucky if there are enough clubs to form a league given their financial situations so Sarries might just end up back in the Premiership anyway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/03/2020 14:32 by Ali1969.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
27 March, 2020 14:40
Quote:
Ali1969
In relation to AL (and he will be on a handsome wage as well) I was referring to his desire to only leave Sarries on a year deal (basically a loan) in order to return to the club along with other high earners such as Earle, Malins and Singleton.

Its a difficult one this and we won't know the answer. He had reportedly just signed an extension and Sarries were asking for a wad of cash for his release. Maybe they just couldn't get that for him in the current climate from either Sale or Bath and so they vetoed any move? It seems to me that under those circumstances he would have had no choice, so maybe he doesn't have that desire?



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

opti
Optimist
27 March, 2020 14:56
Quote:
shipwrecked
I do wonder if Eddie is trying to move away from BV dependancy by tinkering with Curry. Also he needs to have an alternative to Farrell, who is the upcoming IC for the next world cup?

England have loads of options at 8 now, and personally I wouldnít cry if Farrell became unavailable because perming 3 from Ford/Slade/JJ/Marchant/Devoto/Lawrence would be pretty exciting. The one Eddie needs to wean off is Tuilagi. There is nothing even close to a like-for-like, and so a back line built around and dependent on him is one hamstring away from requiring reinvention. We have tons of ball-playing centres now so iíd embrace that and use Tuilagi off the bench.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
27 March, 2020 18:54
Quote:
Optimist
Quote:
shipwrecked
I do wonder if Eddie is trying to move away from BV dependancy by tinkering with Curry. Also he needs to have an alternative to Farrell, who is the upcoming IC for the next world cup?

England have loads of options at 8 now, and personally I wouldnít cry if Farrell became unavailable because perming 3 from Ford/Slade/JJ/Marchant/Devoto/Lawrence would be pretty exciting. The one Eddie needs to wean off is Tuilagi. There is nothing even close to a like-for-like, and so a back line built around and dependent on him is one hamstring away from requiring reinvention. We have tons of ball-playing centres now so iíd embrace that and use Tuilagi off the bench.

What this fast mobile back row and 3/4r's needs is a ball carrier or two. So where are they? I get Manu but I'm thinking for next world cup.



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

BlackheathSarrie
BlackheathSarrie
27 March, 2020 19:25
Quote:
Optimist
I don't think any of them are risking their international careers
Really? Mark Wilson moved to Sale to maintain his chance of playing for England. George Ford had an escape clause written into his contract if Tigers were relegated when they were a top 4 team. Both did that because the National team does not pick players from the Championship.
I'd certainly suggest there is significant risk there unless they'd had word otherwise from Jones. It was interesting that Jones picked Hodge from the Championship in his last squad so maybe he's setting some ground work but at the beginning of a RWC cycle when Jones can perhaps afford to drop some big names for a season or two I think you're doing them a disservice by saying it's not a factor in their decision making to stay.


Quote:
Ali1969
In relation to AL (and he will be on a handsome wage as well) ... in order to return to the club along with other high earners such as Earle, Malins and Singleton

This is one of the things that intrigues me when people talk about Saracens. On what basis are you stating that Earl, Malins and Singleton are high-earners? Two of them are recent graduates from the Academy one of them has returned from another club to fight for a position as second hooker. There seems to be a common misconception that the second players play well or they are noticed by the International selectors their salary sky-rockets. When they negotiate their next contract I'm sure that jump in recognition will be a factor in the negotiation but not with regards to their immediate contract.

Quote:
Ali1969
In relation to where Sarries were financially at the time of relegation we will never truly know as they refused a forensic audit of their accounts

Is it that straight forward? PRL via the SCM have had access to Saracens books and a "map" of where to look from Quins and Glaws for over 18 months. In that time they have had a chance to conduct a forensic audit and we know the results.
What Saracens apparently refused to do was give PRL a remit to open their books for the last decade. I accept that there could be nefarious reasons for that but I also think you'd struggle to find a single Premiership club who would open themselves up to that level of scrutiny even if they had "nothing to hide" partially because there is value in knowing players, coaches and sponsorship values for the opposition but also because they will be contractually bound not to reveal details of some of those agreements and so open to lawsuits should they break those agreements without the other parties agreement.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
27 March, 2020 19:33
With you until the last point BHS - no way that can be dressed up as something to hide under the circumstances that they already found themselves.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

sid the seagull
sid the seagull
27 March, 2020 20:54
I say this with the warmest intentions to all concerned but bladdy hill people can we stop talking about ruddy Saracens. Disgusting little episode, just leave them to it.

PECK

gaz59
gaz59
27 March, 2020 22:23
Quote:
sid the seagull
I say this with the warmest intentions to all concerned but bladdy hill people can we stop talking about ruddy Saracens. Disgusting little episode, just leave them to it.
PECK

Plus a trillion, thank you sid for some seagulls sanity

dcsh
dcsh
06 April, 2020 19:44
The Ruck say The Rugby Paper is reporting that Taulupe Faletau could leave Bath this summer
[www.ruck.co.uk]

They also go on to report that Josh Matavesi, Henry Thomas, Tom Homer, Freddie Burns and Will Chudley are all set to leave.

If true then we should expect some new faces to come in, while other could be replaced by youngsters or in Faletauís case England international Zach (who is still only 22!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2020 19:46 by dcsh.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
06 April, 2020 20:07
Strewth thats a lot, a lot of cap too. Asks some big questions!



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
06 April, 2020 20:11
Josh M and Will H should definitely be keepers IMO. The others are replaceable - TF is brilliant at his best but hard to argue VFM over the last few years.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
06 April, 2020 20:15
Agree on Homer and Matevesi, but even then thats a lot of wages, dare we hope for a quality 10?



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
06 April, 2020 20:19
Quote:
shipwrecked
Agree on Homer and Matevesi, but even then thats a lot of wages, dare we hope for a quality 10?

We should have a marquee slot free so in theory money is Ďno objectí (aside from minimising financial loss of course). Max O and TDG Coming into the team alongside Miles Reid should be huge in terms of player development at sensible cost.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

ken_jnr
ken_jnr
06 April, 2020 23:40
Another transition season? There are compelling reasons why all of those players can be replaced while strengthening our squad. However it depends who we get in and how quickly they can be integrated... and if Dempsey shows any kind of coaching ability at some point.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
07 April, 2020 06:32
Hooper made it clear that he beefed up the forwards last year and he was addressing the backs this year. Hopefully it can be as successful in terms of signings like Will Stuart.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

gaz59
gaz59
07 April, 2020 10:02
Weird if true. I can understand letting Homer go if he wants to explore his trade in another country, say France or Japan but otherwise I just don't get. Even if there is quality signing lined up I would question the thinking because he has been generally sound [one classic blooper at ashton gate aside] and many times exceptional

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
07 April, 2020 10:36
Not keeping Homer would be just stupid on Hooperís part.

Long Term
Long Term
07 April, 2020 10:50
Quote:
OutsideBath
Not keeping Homer would be just stupid on Hooperís part.

Do you not think the player has some say on whether he stays or goes!? Perhaps he doesn't want to be no 2 behind Watson when he could earn more money elsewhere. For those waiting to jump on the coaches for 'letting' this or that player go can we wait until Hooper sorts out his backline, having focused on the pack last year, before making judgements,

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
07 April, 2020 11:02
Quote:
Long Term
Quote:
OutsideBath
Not keeping Homer would be just stupid on Hooperís part.

Do you not think the player has some say on whether he stays or goes!? Perhaps he doesn't want to be no 2 behind Watson when he could earn more money elsewhere. For those waiting to jump on the coaches for 'letting' this or that player go can we wait until Hooper sorts out his backline, having focused on the pack last year, before making judgements,

Long Term please don't let this result in missing out on in an opportunity to bash Stuart Hooper.

TDG played 15 in his appearances last year - I wonder if Watson, RM and TDG are seen as the guys to cover that position, but with FB and Homer going it looks like we are certainly a couple down. Is Darren Atkins still in contract?



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Bepetas
Bepetas
07 April, 2020 11:14
I'd be sorry to see Tom Homer leave Bath but I think it would be better for him to move on to somewhere he has a better chance of being a first choice fullback. I'd like to see him stay but would probably be better for player and club if he moves on.

Josh Matavesi has made a good impact since he replaced Jamie Roberts, I'd have thought he was worth another contract unless Bath have another ready to sign?

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
07 April, 2020 11:26
I'd be disappointed to lose Homer because he seems like that kind of no-frills, solid player you can build a squad around. I would guess his error rate is quite low and he does the job. Yeah, he's not international class but we can't have 30 internationals.

Likewise Matavesi, but given the nature of his deal it's hard to assess what contract he is on.

Would be good to get an idea of who's incoming.



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
07 April, 2020 16:12
Homer is also a very acceptable place kicker

ken_jnr
ken_jnr
07 April, 2020 16:28
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
Homer is also a very acceptable place kicker

I would say that is probably understating it. Wasnít he the Premiershipís leading point scorer one season when he was with Irish? It always struck me as odd he never kicked for us considering his range and accuracy in days gone by, especially on those occasions when our kickers were having an off day.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
07 April, 2020 16:48
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
Long Term
Quote:
OutsideBath
Not keeping Homer would be just stupid on Hooperís part.

Do you not think the player has some say on whether he stays or goes!? Perhaps he doesn't want to be no 2 behind Watson when he could earn more money elsewhere. For those waiting to jump on the coaches for 'letting' this or that player go can we wait until Hooper sorts out his backline, having focused on the pack last year, before making judgements,

Long Term please don't let this result in missing out on in an opportunity to bash Stuart Hooper.

TDG played 15 in his appearances last year - I wonder if Watson, RM and TDG are seen as the guys to cover that position, but with FB and Homer going it looks like we are certainly a couple down. Is Darren Atkins still in contract?

My mistake I'm entirely wrong, losing one of the clubs most consistent performers without signing an equal quality replacement is an entirely logical decision.

Long Term
Long Term
07 April, 2020 16:59
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
Long Term
Quote:
OutsideBath
Not keeping Homer would be just stupid on Hooperís part.

Do you not think the player has some say on whether he stays or goes!? Perhaps he doesn't want to be no 2 behind Watson when he could earn more money elsewhere. For those waiting to jump on the coaches for 'letting' this or that player go can we wait until Hooper sorts out his backline, having focused on the pack last year, before making judgements,

Long Term please don't let this result in missing out on in an opportunity to bash Stuart Hooper.

TDG played 15 in his appearances last year - I wonder if Watson, RM and TDG are seen as the guys to cover that position, but with FB and Homer going it looks like we are certainly a couple down. Is Darren Atkins still in contract?

My mistake I'm entirely wrong, losing one of the clubs most consistent performers without signing an equal quality replacement is an entirely logical decision.

How on earth do you know that the club is not doing this very thing! Perhaps you could explain all the decisions that Hooper is going through in building a back line that highlight how stupid he is being! (Sm141)

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
07 April, 2020 17:11
3. Tom Homer
The fullback has been unlucky not to get a new deal at the club having started 11 out of 13 rounds of the Premiership this season in the 15 jersey, scoring three tries in the process. Newcastle Falcons are said to be interested in signing the Premiership veteran.

Does that not imply that he wanted a deal and didnt get one, or not?

opti
Optimist
07 April, 2020 17:18
Quote:
woodpecker
3. Tom Homer. Does that not imply that he wanted a deal and didnt get one, or not?

Well yes - but the same piece says:

"RUMOUR Taulupe Faletau could leave Bath this summerMeanwhile, WalesOnline understands no contact has yet been made with the 29-year-old."

They may be right that Homer is leaving the Club, but i very much doubt that they have the faintest clue as to the background to the eventuality.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
07 April, 2020 17:22
Quote:
Long Term
How on earth do you know that the club is not doing this very thing! Perhaps you could explain all the decisions that Hooper is going through in building a back line that highlight how stupid he is being! (Sm141)

This. I think that we should take stock when we know what is happening.

OB I already said that I would like him to stay, but the offering and accepting of a contract (and balancing of the budget within the cap) is more complex than simply 'make it so' by Stuart Hooper.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
07 April, 2020 17:28
Quote:
Optimist
Quote:
woodpecker
3. Tom Homer. Does that not imply that he wanted a deal and didnt get one, or not?

Well yes - but the same piece says:

"RUMOUR Taulupe Faletau could leave Bath this summerMeanwhile, WalesOnline understands no contact has yet been made with the 29-year-old."

They may be right that Homer is leaving the Club, but i very much doubt that they have the faintest clue as to the background to the eventuality.

Faletau might be off to Ospreys



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
07 April, 2020 17:50
I'm sure a deal could be done with Ospreys...

[www.theguardian.com]

Underhill still had another full season on his contract with Ospreys when he signed for Bath. The reported £150,000 transfer fee he commanded reflected the reputation he had forged in fewer than 30 matches for the region and he knew he had to leave Wales to fulfil his international ambitions, although under the current regulations he would have qualified to play for Wales next year.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

opti
Optimist
07 April, 2020 19:32
Of course, he might be SW, as Homer may be off to Japan. But none of that sheds any light as to who is jilting who, and that, IMO, is always the most interesting part of the story.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
07 April, 2020 20:45
Can't argue with that, what that means of course is that the number of names on the list might be correct. If so who is on the way in?



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

opti
Optimist
07 April, 2020 23:35
If ... Taulupe Faletau, Josh Matavesi, Henry Thomas, Tom Homer, Freddie Burns, Will Chudley are all off ... that, to me, points to a real top-level 10 signing, but not necessarily much else, in a post-Corona world.

Faletau going at same time as Louw would look like a huge loss. but actually still leaves us well-stocked for back row.

Chudley presumably only goes if Spencer signs so thatís a minor upgrade.

Homer is a loss, but with McConnoghie highly unlikely, IMO, to get any more caps, Atkins due to return (on, I would guess, a very much lower salary than TH) and TdG coming through, that seems pretty sound succession planning.

Also, Iím not sure Joseph is going to see much more England action. Eddie will be all over Marchant when he returns, and heíll be interested in Ollie Lawrence as being something vaguely akin to a Tuilagi replacement.

Burns has pretty much bidden his own farewell. If Hooper believes that we are going anywhere without an upgrade on RP, then we might as well all pack up and go home. Who the fek that upgrade is, god only knows.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2020 23:43 by Optimist.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
08 April, 2020 00:18
Ollie Lawrence, I'm not aware of him, any further details?



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
08 April, 2020 06:42
Heís the uber talented very young Worcester centre. Fast and skilful and if he plays his cards right could well be near the next RWC squad. He already trained with the England squad IIRC.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
08 April, 2020 08:14
He's also cube shaped, very aggressive in contact
and has fantastic hands. Very green but looks like a real talent.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
08 April, 2020 12:17
Seems that Nick Tompkins move from Sarries to Cardiff Blues is in jeopardy because Sarries want it to be for a year only.



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Ali1969
Ali1969
08 April, 2020 14:49
Some interesting comments - I would imagine Hoops is going to have to be sure and die by his decisions if he lets some of those players go especially Homer - a proven performer, safe, experienced and arguably one if not our best week on week player of this season especially given the situation with big Joe - if the reports are true and he really is really struggling both physically and mentally, it may be a long time before we see him in the BBW again and even then will he be the same player?? who knows?

In relation to TF seems strange when we are losing Louw - to lose that type of experience twice over especially in the back row for a side which quite frankly is fragile at the best of times is a bold call, I am not saying young Mercer is not good enough because he is - however he has in the past couple of seasons picked up several niggling knee injuries which given his size compared to his peers does not bode well for the future given the workload which would be placed on him if TF leaves.

Think of the loss of all of those players + Cook along with our promising second row young Rhys - an awful lot of experience again in key positions/decision making positions which need stability and understanding of each other in order to play effectively - Just think we are talking if believed that both our 9's, our first choice 7 & 8 and our 12 going along with our first choice 15 this year.

Have we learnt nothing from previous seasons when we have consistently changed key playmaking decisions and wonder why there is no cohesion or understanding in our play.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
08 April, 2020 14:58
Quote:
Ali1969
In relation to TF seems strange when we are losing Louw - to lose that type of experience twice over especially in the back row for a side which quite frankly is fragile at the best of times is a bold call, I am not saying young Mercer is not good enough because he is - however he has in the past couple of seasons picked up several niggling knee injuries which given his size compared to his peers does not bode well for the future given the workload which would be placed on him if TF leaves.

I think that can work both ways FL and TF as senior players can sometimes inhibit talent coming through. Given TF's injury record I would see his game time as considerably less than Zach's, its not an area that worries me personally and if they go it frees up a bundle of cash.



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
hasta
08 April, 2020 16:45
I don't think the club are 'letting' Homer leave, so much as he got a very lucrative offer from Japan (although who knows whether that holds up now). The salary cap reality is that players like Homer, really solid but perhaps not considered absolute top class will be difficult to hold on to - those decisions need to be made relatively early in a season and depend on whose contract is up any given year. And sometimes those don't work out as you'd think - I'd have Homer over Roko in our first choice back 3 at the moment (given JoCo still out). But I doubt many Bath fans would have picked that back in October...

Faletau is class, but the reality is he's often away or injured, takes up a marquee slot and we have a lot of back row depth. Losing both him and Flouw in one summer might be overkill though. Although we do have the England No. 8 to cover him and Zach.

opti
Optimist
08 April, 2020 16:53
Do we have any actual news on Noguera, Max Clark, Alex Davies? I'm assuming these 3 are off too?

dcsh
dcsh
08 April, 2020 17:24
Iíd certainly assume Noguera and Alex Davies are off, neither have been anywhere near the first team or looked like they could do.

Max Clark has, when fit, produced man of the match level performances, so Iíd think there is the change of him getting another contract.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
08 April, 2020 17:26
No news - also Max Green unless I missed him signing a new one

[www.bathchronicle.co.uk]

Green has arrived on a two-and-a-half year deal - initially in the academy - that should keep him at Bath until at least 2020.

(article dated 5 Feb 2018)



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
08 April, 2020 17:32
Quote:
dcsh
Max Clark has, when fit

He has started 16 games in over 3 years - including 1 this season after signing an extension almost exactly a year ago.

[www.bbc.co.uk]

If he is out of contract I can't see how they can justify keeping him although I suppose it also depends on Josh Matavesi and Jackson Willison as well as where Cam Redpath, Max O and TDG see themselves playing?



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
08 April, 2020 18:12
Quote:
Optimist
If ... Taulupe Faletau, Josh Matavesi, Henry Thomas, Tom Homer, Freddie Burns, Will Chudley are all off ... that, to me, points to a real top-level 10 signing, but not necessarily much else, in a post-Corona world.

Could it be that the club are going to let all the above go, hope the youngsters can step up and RP can play the whole season without serious injury?

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
08 April, 2020 18:25
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
Optimist
If ... Taulupe Faletau, Josh Matavesi, Henry Thomas, Tom Homer, Freddie Burns, Will Chudley are all off ... that, to me, points to a real top-level 10 signing, but not necessarily much else, in a post-Corona world.

Could it be that the club are going to let all the above go, hope the youngsters can step up and RP can play the whole season without serious injury?

That would be... brave.

But let's get real , next season will be badly disrupted by COVID19, I'd expect some kind of ring fencing to be announced to protect the premier clubs finances and the International game will wither as national unions go bust and their players have to revert to amateur status. France and England maybe strong enough to remain fully pro but I doubt the others will be.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
08 April, 2020 18:42
Throwing the kids in worked for Sir Alex Fergusonís Man Utd in 1995.

bathstigg
bathstigg
08 April, 2020 20:11
Who is available at 10 in the world? Beauden Barrett or an outside bet on Finn Russell?

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
08 April, 2020 20:58
Barrett has just signed a new contract.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

TomReagan
TomReagan
08 April, 2020 22:30
Would try hard to extend the contracts of Willison, Matevesi and Homer. Not worried about retaining the other names mentioned although I hope HT able to prove his fitness and get another year (Said whilst fully recognising that those who run the club have to adopt a more ruthless, pragmatic approach and may decide he's too likely to get another bad injury). TF-paper talk at present but if he left I wouldn't be too bothered, particularly if the money freed up was spent well.

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
08 April, 2020 22:35
I expect that Hoops would love to retain Homer but if he has got a better deal than Bath can offer so be it! That I fear is what we have to accept in professional rugby!



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
09 April, 2020 00:39
Quote:
bathstigg
Who is available at 10 in the world? Beauden Barrett or an outside bet on Finn Russell?

Happy to be proved wrong but we aren't signing a world class 10.

I'm not sure it's even worth spending as much as we spent on Freddie, to fail to outcompete Priestland.



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
09 April, 2020 09:14
Quote:
The Bear
Quote:
bathstigg
Who is available at 10 in the world? Beauden Barrett or an outside bet on Finn Russell?

Happy to be proved wrong but we aren't signing a world class 10.

I'm not sure it's even worth spending as much as we spent on Freddie, to fail to outcompete Priestland.

Having an independently rich owner may become a very attractive selling point to any passing world class 10s for the next few years.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
09 April, 2020 09:21
Lets be realistic, what Premiership quality 10's are currently available, let alone international ones?
Sopoaga then who?



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

DanWiley
DanWiley
09 April, 2020 09:33
The problem is, I think, we need an "inspired signing". It's dead easy, but expensive, to say "he's currently a great player, let's get him." But what we should aim to do is find someone who hasn't quite reached that level, but it's about to, or is one of those players who is currently playing in a team that's not getting the most of of him for whatever reason.

I appreciate that's not an easy task, I guess putting together a top rugby team isn't or everyone would be doing it, but it happens quite regularly (probably by chance).

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
09 April, 2020 09:47
Kids can do a great job if they are talented enough - look at Umaga, Smith, Vunipola, Grayson this season and how Simmons and Hastings have come on. I am with Dan W, I would either sign an up-and-coming prospect or if TDG or Redpath see themselves as a 10 then get them in the team with Bailey playing A league games. If they make some mistakes playing exciting rugby then OK they will learn from it.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
09 April, 2020 10:00
Matt, quite possibly, however, if we do that how are we going to spend the freed up cash?



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
09 April, 2020 10:05
Quote:
shipwrecked
Matt, quite possibly, however, if we do that how are we going to spend the freed up cash?

There should be a load of freed up cash but also a load of new players needed to replace them (THP and LHP for starters - if HT, Lucas Noguera Paz and Nixon are off and Obano and Stuart potentially with England it will be a front row of Boyce and Judge with Shipwrecked and CoochiCoo on the bench!



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2020 10:10 by BathMatt53.

opti
Optimist
09 April, 2020 10:29
Quote:
DanWiley
The problem is, I think, we need an "inspired signing". .... But what we should aim to do is find someone who hasn't quite reached that level, but it's about to, or is one of those players who is currently playing in a team that's not getting the most of of him for whatever reason

Everyone could do with an 'inspired signing' - a Cantona type of signing.... but the trouble is we are the kings of 'not getting the most out of' players. So the likelihood of Hooper identifying an unpolished gem of a fly-half seems to me pretty negligible. The likelihood of him polishing that gem into something genuinely shiny? Non-existent.

It's possible that Hooper's ultra-methodical, one step at a time strategy will bear fruit in a few years, but if we want something resembling success any time soon we needed Pollard. A finished article with sufficient confidence in their own ability to take charge of situations on the pitch, without having to stop and fish Stuart's pre-ordained playbook out of their pocket before making a decision. We need a fly-half who wants and demands the ball. Who always believes that they can put someone into space, especially in the red zone. Rather than someone who just prefers to hide behind the collective responsibility of letting the forwards batter away 2 centimetres at a time.

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