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The House That Nigel Built
Discussion started by rainbow (IP Logged), 01 December, 2019 09:50
rainbow
rainbow
01 December, 2019 09:50
I'd heard about this, and read up on it, how some extremely rich guy had flouted planning laws to construct a behemoth of a place that apparently flouted those very planning laws. So i went to have a look, last Friday funnily enough, and do you not what even though the owner had been told to disassemble the structure there was no discernible difference. All the usual building blocks were in place no sign of any change. I suspect the authorities will have to make another visit, some interested parties are becoming restless understandably so, time will tell but.

John Tee
John Tee
01 December, 2019 10:05
it is a question of trust...and of one who has seemingly betrayed that previously.

The whole thing is laughable ...

annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn
01 December, 2019 10:21
The two above posts are not worthy of this board.

Nigel Wray is not the only Owner to have bent rules and flouted convention. The saying about stones and glasshouses springs to mind. There is an awful lot of very big egos within Premier Rugby Limited, with the politics being eyewatering.
He/They overdid it and got caught = always a mistake!!!

He wanted to have the best team - building the 'best team isn't only about the cash you have available to chuck at it, its spotting the right people to put in the right place at the right time. Don't agree with the so-called financial rules he 'adapted'.

Sarries success hasn't happened overnight - its taken approx. 10 years. I can't stand the way they play, bullying other teams a few seasons ago and now perfected their 'strangling' the opposition with teamwork and skill - like a pack of wolves. Accept that Bath are also rans currently - it can be turned round. A good example of this is with Northampton = last seasons dire but I can't wait to see how Sarries fare against Saints this season. So, who would you rather watch for pure enjoyable rugby skilled entertainment - Saints or Sarries?

SimonG19
SimonG19
01 December, 2019 10:53
There is certainly one post above that isn't worthy of this board.

rainbow
rainbow
01 December, 2019 12:28
Annie you start of with a degree of sense but quickly, probably after about word three, descend into rant mode. My admittedly poor attempt was to introduce a note of sarcasm into proceedings.

gaz59
gaz59
01 December, 2019 12:28
He wasn't told to "disassemble the structure" of the 'house'

He was told to make the structure fit the "planning laws"

The ongoing interest will show if that has been done or not but my golly Annie, a tad too much sherry there before hitting the keyboard, what a ramble!?

John Tee
John Tee
01 December, 2019 13:49
Quote:
annie blackthorn
The two above posts are not worthy of this board.
Nigel Wray is not the only Owner to have bent rules and flouted convention. The saying about stones and glasshouses springs to mind. There is an awful lot of very big egos within Premier Rugby Limited, with the politics being eyewatering.
He/They overdid it and got caught = always a mistake!!!

He wanted to have the best team - building the 'best team isn't only about the cash you have available to chuck at it, its spotting the right people to put in the right place at the right time. Don't agree with the so-called financial rules he 'adapted'.

Sarries success hasn't happened overnight - its taken approx. 10 years. I can't stand the way they play, bullying other teams a few seasons ago and now perfected their 'strangling' the opposition with teamwork and skill - like a pack of wolves. Accept that Bath are also rans currently - it can be turned round. A good example of this is with Northampton = last seasons dire but I can't wait to see how Sarries fare against Saints this season. So, who would you rather watch for pure enjoyable rugby skilled entertainment - Saints or Sarries?

No, they aren't the first..might not be the only ones now or the last but the simple fact is that they have been caught cheating...

I would have no problem if epl was determined and able to clean up the game and during that due diligence caught anyone else.

You either want a completely clean game and a level playing field or you don't

I'm just bemused why the english game as a whole seem relatively relaxed, resigned or sanguine about it.

Awp24975
Awp24975
01 December, 2019 18:53
Quote:
annie blackthorn
So, who would you rather watch for pure enjoyable rugby skilled entertainment - Saints or Sarries?

Actually Sarries, I love the aggressive way they defend, the relentless way they go at the opposition and then the clinical way they go through the gears and dispatch teams. I like the players they have and would love to have pretty much any of their starting XV in Bath colours (maybe not Wigglesworth or Jackson Wray)
I am a Bath fan through and through, however find the whole situation fascinating now and am looking forward to watching them claw back the deficit and see where they finish. It is definitely an us against the world feeling for them, and I know when I played they were the times that just made you stronger and more determined.
I know loads don’t agree and that’s fine, however feel that they have been punished as much as is allowed, feel we should move on and now watching with interest to see how they fair. Part of me wants them to get maximum points for rest of season (apart from Bath fixture), sneak into top 4 and beat Exeter in play offs.
The whole backs against the wall stuff is fascinating, still won’t rule them out of winning some kind of silverware this season with the team spirit they have.

gaz59
gaz59
01 December, 2019 19:29
Completely agree Awp but also the zero tolerance of errors or below par performance. Sanderson will always highlight problem areas for the team [not criticise individuals] if things aren't going right, never skates over weak play with warm words

warrenball
warrenball
01 December, 2019 20:43
Although I agree with what you say AWP, I think Annie makes the wrong comparison because at the moment I would prefer watching either Sarries or Saints over many other premiership teams, including Bath. Sarries broke the rules but just spending more money does not make the team as goods as it is, just look at some of the high spending French clubs.

Man From Wick
Man From Wick
01 December, 2019 22:10
Quote:
Awp24975
Quote:
annie blackthorn
So, who would you rather watch for pure enjoyable rugby skilled entertainment - Saints or Sarries?

Actually Sarries, I love the aggressive way they defend, the relentless way they go at the opposition and then the clinical way they go through the gears and dispatch teams. I like the players they have and would love to have pretty much any of their starting XV in Bath colours (maybe not Wigglesworth or Jackson Wray)
I am a Bath fan through and through, however find the whole situation fascinating now and am looking forward to watching them claw back the deficit and see where they finish. It is definitely an us against the world feeling for them, and I know when I played they were the times that just made you stronger and more determined.
I know loads don’t agree and that’s fine, however feel that they have been punished as much as is allowed, feel we should move on and now watching with interest to see how they fair. Part of me wants them to get maximum points for rest of season (apart from Bath fixture), sneak into top 4 and beat Exeter in play offs.
The whole backs against the wall stuff is fascinating, still won’t rule them out of winning some kind of silverware this season with the team spirit they have.

All of this 'we should move on' mantra is laughable, how do you know they are not breaking the cap now or won't again in the future? You don't because they have been doing it on the sly for years and will always have that suspicion around them. And wanting them to win more silverware after they have just won Premiership titles by breaking the rules, did you want Lance Armstrong to carry on winning the TDF after he got caught too?

Awp24975
Awp24975
01 December, 2019 22:38
Quote:
Man From Wick
Quote:
Awp24975
Quote:
annie blackthorn
So, who would you rather watch for pure enjoyable rugby skilled entertainment - Saints or Sarries?
Actually Sarries, I love the aggressive way they defend, the relentless way they go at the opposition and then the clinical way they go through the gears and dispatch teams. I like the players they have and would love to have pretty much any of their starting XV in Bath colours (maybe not Wigglesworth or Jackson Wray)
I am a Bath fan through and through, however find the whole situation fascinating now and am looking forward to watching them claw back the deficit and see where they finish. It is definitely an us against the world feeling for them, and I know when I played they were the times that just made you stronger and more determined.
I know loads don’t agree and that’s fine, however feel that they have been punished as much as is allowed, feel we should move on and now watching with interest to see how they fair. Part of me wants them to get maximum points for rest of season (apart from Bath fixture), sneak into top 4 and beat Exeter in play offs.
The whole backs against the wall stuff is fascinating, still won’t rule them out of winning some kind of silverware this season with the team spirit they have.

All of this 'we should move on' mantra is laughable, how do you know they are not breaking the cap now or won't again in the future? You don't because they have been doing it on the sly for years and will always have that suspicion around them. And wanting them to win more silverware after they have just won Premiership titles by breaking the rules, did you want Lance Armstrong to carry on winning the TDF after he got caught too?

I have absolutely zero interest in cycling or the TDF so couldn’t give a monkeys one way or another about Lance Armstrong.

I also don’t know that they are not still doing it or will in the future that is for someone else to look into, however would think that they are going to be whiter than white now.

I am also not naive enough to think that other teams have probably done it as well or were thinking of ingenious ways around it. Sarries were caught, they have been punished.

And yes I would have no issue with them winning it again, to come from having a 35 point deduction to win would be some feat. Would much rather them than some of the other teams winning it.

John Tee
John Tee
02 December, 2019 15:04
no empathy with the notion of fair play then?? ..oh well,

No wonder Saracens thought they could get away with it...

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
02 December, 2019 15:06
There used to a well known phrase “cheats never prosper” we may have to revisit that!



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
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opti
Optimist
02 December, 2019 15:12
Not sure they can be said to have 'prospered' in the financial sense. NW has shipped north of £30m, the South African consortium sold out at a loss of £25m, and now they have to cough up a £5m fine. If that's prospering, i'll stick with what i'm doing!

jameswood14
Woodpecker
02 December, 2019 15:32
On Friday I read somewhere on here that Bath had effectively banned Wray, i cant find reference to that. This in Daily Mail:

Saracens director of rugby Mark McCall said: “It’s a real shame that he doesn’t feel comfortable to come to the away matches.

“For somebody who has actually given rugby a lot, I believe, and given the north London community so much good, for him to feel he cannot watch his club is really sad. Hopefully he starts to feel differently soon, but it’s his decision for now.”

Where did it say that/who said?

opti
Optimist
02 December, 2019 15:42
Sounds to me more like he has decided that he's not going to get a warm welcome so he's staying away. Not that Bath banned him. I seem to remember thinking that he and Bruce were in cahoots about ring-fencing but maybe they're not so matey. When we played Sarries last year, Nige was sitting in the main stand, not in a box, which struck me as a bit odd that he hadn't got an invite from Bruce.

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
02 December, 2019 16:32
Prospering = gaining trophies? Prize money?



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
02 December, 2019 16:40
Quote:
Optimist
Sounds to me more like he has decided that he's not going to get a warm welcome so he's staying away. Not that Bath banned him. I seem to remember thinking that he and Bruce were in cahoots about ring-fencing but maybe they're not so matey. When we played Sarries last year, Nige was sitting in the main stand, not in a box, which struck me as a bit odd that he hadn't got an invite from Bruce.

Not quite. In the post match BT sport interview (at about 1 min 10 secs) McCall was questioned on Wray having been told that he ‘wasn’t welcome’ at the Rec as a result of the premiership clubs having decided this. He said that he found it ‘unbelievably disappointing’.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Poking With Sticks
Poking With Sticks
02 December, 2019 16:42
Quote:
Woodpecker
On Friday I read somewhere on here that Bath had effectively banned Wray, i cant find reference to that. This in Daily Mail:
Saracens director of rugby Mark McCall said: “It’s a real shame that he doesn’t feel comfortable to come to the away matches.

“For somebody who has actually given rugby a lot, I believe, and given the north London community so much good, for him to feel he cannot watch his club is really sad. Hopefully he starts to feel differently soon, but it’s his decision for now.”

Where did it say that/who said?

Various articles over the last week or two vaguely hinted that several chairmen had said he wouldn't be welcome at their grounds (not that he was banned). Only Tony Rowe was quoted in the papers but presumably all of them have met up and some stage in these proceedings, so maybe this is from personal discussions, not from the press.

annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn
02 December, 2019 21:53
P.S. In the good old days of the previous main (West Stand) stand, where the Visiting coaching team sat in the middle on the halfway, and walked up and down past those lucky enough to be on a gangway, there were 8 seats immediately behind us where visiting guests could sit. Amongst other distinguished visitors, Nigel Wray would always sit there, 'incognito' if you like, keenly watching and commenting on his teams performance. Sure I am not the only one to recall this.

I would almot place bets that Sarries will end up on the top 4 again thi season, if not higher..

John Tee
John Tee
03 December, 2019 08:08
Im surprised he is surprised he might not be welcome

Im gobsmacked that he finds incredibly disappointing.

He has cheated every club and fan, not less players for too long and he is wondering why people arent at all happy about it.

WTH...!!!!

dragonfly
dragonfly
03 December, 2019 15:40
Quote:
/ Not quite. In the post match BT sport interview (at about 1 min 10 secs) McCall was questioned on Wray having been told that he ‘wasn’t welcome’ at the Rec as a result of the premiership clubs having decided this. He said that he found it ‘unbelievably disappointing’.

If this is true then Bath Rugby / Bruce Craig have gone down considerably in my estimation. I echo Mark MCCalls's words, I also think it is "unbelievably disappointing"

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
03 December, 2019 16:49
Hang on a minute, this isn't just a handshake after a feisty game followed by a beer in the bar. Punishment is not just points and £, there will always be bad feeling about anything which has been accepted as pre meditated cheating.

If he can afford the £5m and Sarries go on to finish well up the table then a few evenings at home watching games on TV will send the right message.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
03 December, 2019 16:58
In football if you make illegal approaches to clubs you can be hit with a player transfer ban. For example Chelsea are in the middle of a 2 transfer window ban.
I would have thought that would have been a good punishment. No point in having 'investment packages' for players if they are banned from joining the club for a season or two!



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
03 December, 2019 17:20
There are lots of good ideas SW...the problem is that they weren’t in place. I can see a re-writing of the salary cap regulations for next year though.

The reality of course is that the punishment would have been pretty hard hitting if it were any other club than Sarries and Exe. As it is, I could still see them winning the prem if all the other clubs continue to take points off each other. Imagine the sheet storm if that were to happen...



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]


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