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The Championship
Discussion started by ken_jnr (IP Logged), 07 December, 2019 01:02
ken_jnr
ken_jnr
07 December, 2019 01:02
Should Sarries surge upward (inevitable) and Tigers and Wasps do similarly (potential) I have to say that after 25 years a Bath fan I think I would be fine with relegation at this point.

Maybe it is age, or maybe it is learned helplessness but I have come to accept that I support the shirt and I would follow it wherever it went. I would be more happy watching Bath play Nottingham or flying to Jersey than watching us get rinsed in the top competitions.

I only occasionally get angry about Bath these days, despite many opportunities to do so. I think it is because I just expect us to be rubbish now, even if our gym looks great from the outside.

At worst the Championship offers different travelling experiences and an excuse for why we STILL donít have a real stadium after many aeons of telling fans we have finally overcome the final hurdle.

At best it gives us a chance to rebuild and figure out what we are trying to achieve per game, per season and where we are headed.

warrenball
warrenball
07 December, 2019 09:01
Agree with most of what you have said Ken, it echoes many of my thoughts, but even if we did get relegated would we really go for a root and branch rebuild or just make excuses for why we got relegated and plod on with the same miserable style of play?

ken_jnr
ken_jnr
07 December, 2019 09:15
Quote:
warrenball
Agree with most of what you have said Ken, it echoes many of my thoughts, but even if we did get relegated would we really go for a root and branch rebuild or just make excuses for why we got relegated and plod on with the same miserable style of play?

A depressingly fair question.

fat lock
fat lock
07 December, 2019 09:34
I'd welcome relegation if it resulted in a reset process.
I actually question whether it will - the direction of travel has been fairly steady in this direction ever since MF left, one has to to assume it has been by design rather than accident.

It's a terrible shame - a club with the resources of Bath ought to have loftier ambitions and the ability to evolve rather than gently fall apart and hope that relegation will result in a stimulus for progress.
It's apparent to me that there is something not right in the club - it's more than a bad season. Recovering from this will take some special skills and work - something I worry that our current team have yet to demonstrate
I find myself remembering the predictions of Bod (before he posted some vile opinions and got banned) of what would happen once BC had taken over. Hate to say it, but much of what he predicted has transpired.................................. Wonder what he's like with lottery numbers?

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
07 December, 2019 09:45
Quote:
ken_jnr
Quote:
warrenball
Agree with most of what you have said Ken, it echoes many of my thoughts, but even if we did get relegated would we really go for a root and branch rebuild or just make excuses for why we got relegated and plod on with the same miserable style of play?

A depressingly fair question.

No team which goes down needs to do anything other than chuck it around due to the gulf in quality between divisions. Itís no surprise that Newcastle are undefeated and will remain so.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

DanWiley
DanWiley
07 December, 2019 09:48
I think you're all being a little prematurely pessimistic.

However, I don't see that a reboot necessary follows relegation, particularly for us, I wouldn't wish for it.

I don't think much is needed anyway, get the right coaching team in place and the rest will follow.

TG Kesmo
TG Kesmo
07 December, 2019 09:58
I agree that itís too early but I would prefer a more minor reset like not qualifying for the big cup. That might refocus some management on the importance of teamwork rather than names for both coaching and playing.
Having said this I think some supporters could do with a major reset on their thinking and expectations. We have no right to win any game we donít have the best squad training set up coaches etc. But given time we can improve. There were signs of attacking intent yesterday so we can hope.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
07 December, 2019 10:03
As someone who supported the appointment of Hooper as DoR but disagreed about the lack of Head Coach I imagine Bruce sat in a big chair like a Bond villain. He is lifting a panel on the arm rest with his finger hovering above a switch labelled Emergency Head Coach Appointment.

In the Bond films the villain always leaves it too late to press 'the switch'. In this case there is no real need to delay, he doesn't have to press a switch that drops Hooper into a shark pond.

If relegation did happen then he would need to make some big changes, so why delay? Why wait until his lair is under attack and sinking into the ocean?

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
07 December, 2019 10:05
Quote:
DanWiley
I don't think much is needed anyway, get the right coaching team in place and the rest will follow.

You have hit the nail on the head, we don't have the right coaching structure in place and for some unknown reason BC isn't acting to make the required changes to correct the mistakes made in the summer. We need decisive action from our owner not the suck it and see approach with fingers crossed that he appears to be adopting.

I'd actually be interested to hear his thoughts on what is going on.

BS7
BS7
07 December, 2019 10:07
Bris fan in peace. If that's what will 'reboot' Bath, then it would be useful medicine? I for one, enjoyed many of the games in the Championship even though we stayed there a few seasons too many. The standard is surprisingly good and the atmosphere is more 'rugby' than win at all costs, if that makes sense? Oh, and Jersey is a must, lovely people and feels like an exotic away game.

DanWiley
DanWiley
07 December, 2019 10:07
Because we've only just made big changes, I'd like to take things slowly and get them right. There's no silver bullet behind that switch, any of them.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
07 December, 2019 10:09
Quote:
DanWiley
Because we've only just made big changes, I'd like to take things slowly and get them right. There's no silver bullet behind that switch, any of them.

The trouble is our "big changes" were to put the apprentice in charge of the shop floor.

TG Kesmo
TG Kesmo
07 December, 2019 10:10
Quote:
B4thB4ck
As someone who supported the appointment of Hooper as DoR but disagreed about the lack of Head Coach I imagine Bruce sat in a big chair like a Bond villain. He is lifting a panel on the arm rest with his finger hovering above a switch labelled Emergency Head Coach Appointment.
In the Bond films the villain always leaves it too late to press 'the switch'. In this case there is no real need to delay, he doesn't have to press a switch that drops Hooper into a shark pond.


If relegation did happen then he would need to make some big changes, so why delay? Why wait until his lair is under attack and sinking into the ocean?

Because this is real life not some fantasy football game you have to have a decent replacement lined up Itsl mid season so not many are are available you have to fund their redundancy money and you have to be utterly convinced in your own mind that the appointment you made is completely wrong.
I assume B4B you have never sacked anyone or been in a position to do so. Otherwise you wouldnít so glibly write people off after a very short time.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
07 December, 2019 10:15
Quote:
DanWiley
Because we've only just made big changes, I'd like to take things slowly and get them right. There's no silver bullet behind that switch, any of them.

Completely agree Dan, seems that we deliberately ran the ball at them, Hooper stated this the backs looked OK perhaps we ran it too much. But it proved a point in that we can attack with ball in hand.
Problem now is that we are struggling in the back row.



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
07 December, 2019 10:29
Personally, I would be very annoyed and upset if Bath were relegated. Too much blood sweat and tears over the early building years went into making the club what it became and I feel the present custodians are letting their forebares down. Those of us who witnessed Elvis's league saving try against our next Prem opponents will never forget and the currant generation need to step up to the mark, not just the players but the management and coaches alike.

As I understand it, we have as much financial backing as we need, have top class training facilities, pay top salaries {legally} and have an exceptionally talented squad. Yes our pitch isn't like the carpet some play on but that is a weak excuse.

Other sides have progressed and we have either stood still or gone backwards. With all the tools and talents at the Club's disposal, questions have to be asked and realities faced. If that means changing personnel so be it whether that is the MD or the tea lady. Like many on here, I have supported the club through thick and thin over the last 40 odd years. We all deserve better and so do those who through their efforts got the club to where they are now. This could be a seminal period in the club's once vaunted history.



Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.

The Jink Joseph.

Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
07 December, 2019 10:31
Quote:
TG Kesmo
Quote:
B4thB4ck
As someone who supported the appointment of Hooper as DoR but disagreed about the lack of Head Coach I imagine Bruce sat in a big chair like a Bond villain. He is lifting a panel on the arm rest with his finger hovering above a switch labelled Emergency Head Coach Appointment.
In the Bond films the villain always leaves it too late to press 'the switch'. In this case there is no real need to delay, he doesn't have to press a switch that drops Hooper into a shark pond.


If relegation did happen then he would need to make some big changes, so why delay? Why wait until his lair is under attack and sinking into the ocean?

Because this is real life not some fantasy football game you have to have a decent replacement lined up Itsl mid season so not many are are available you have to fund their redundancy money and you have to be utterly convinced in your own mind that the appointment you made is completely wrong.
I assume B4B you have never sacked anyone or been in a position to do so. Otherwise you wouldnít so glibly write people off after a very short time.

If you read my post again it says I support Hooper and would keep him, adding a head coach. No one leaves, no one gets sacked, it is a positive move. Sorry if my artistic license was misguided but you have misunderstood my post, please read again.

TG Kesmo
TG Kesmo
08 December, 2019 09:22
Actually I did read it. The magic bit was a bit of a give away. Coaches come out of a budget too, where is this bail out money to afford a mid season addition to coaching staff. They would need to be bought out of existing contracts and paid a reasonable salary on arrival. Did you seriously think we would retain all the existing coaching staff in this case.. I see it as a similar to why we didnít replace Matson mid season no one decent available no extra money. Not gonna happen..

TG Kesmo
TG Kesmo
08 December, 2019 09:22
Actually I did read it. The magic bit was a bit of a give away. Coaches come out of a budget too, where is this bail out money to afford a mid season addition to coaching staff. They would need to be bought out of existing contracts and paid a reasonable salary on arrival. Did you seriously think we would retain all the existing coaching staff in this case.. I see it as a similar to why we didnít replace Matson mid season no one decent available no extra money. Not gonna happen..

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
08 December, 2019 14:06
I agree TGK, I think the budgets are tight hence the appointment of Stuart and hence no more coaches this season at least unless somebody leaves, it is a business after all . (Sm128)



Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
08 December, 2019 18:15
But the coaches salaries don't come out of the cap. So this really just discretionary spend for Bruce. I would have thought a Head Coach's salary is about the most important one you can spend at a rugby club.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

DanWiley
DanWiley
08 December, 2019 19:49
I agree. A decent dor/HC can make some fairly average players champions, look at Exeter.

Coaching staff doesn't come out of the cap and can certainly have a bigger impact than any individual player. Probably many players. So spend big there. It's a no brainer.

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
08 December, 2019 19:56
Where did Rob Baxter earn his badges before he became DoR of Exeter? Asking for a friend!



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
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ouch!_that_hurts
ouch!_that_hurts
08 December, 2019 20:30
According to Wikipedia ...........

As a player Baxter played lock for Exeter for 14 years and served as the club's captain for 10 years.

Following his retirement he moved into coaching the University of Exeter side while acting as a forwards coach for the Chiefs. Rob Baxter was appointed to the position of acting head coach of Exeter Chiefs following the sacking of former coach Pete Drewett in March 2009. On 7 May 2009 it was announced that Baxter will be taking over the position of Head Coach of the Exeter Chiefs.In Baxter's first season as coach, he led the team to promotion from the RFU Championship to the Premiership. Baxter's efforts in establishing Exeter as a strong Premiership side were recognised when he won the 2011/12 Director of the Year award at the Aviva Premiership awards, having also been nominated for the honour the previous season.

It was announced on 26 March 2013 that Baxter would join the England coaching team for the summer tour to Argentina and Uruguay.

In the 2016/2017 season, Baxter led the Exeter Chiefs to win the English Premiership for the first time in their history by beating Wasps in the final 23 - 20.

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
08 December, 2019 23:09
Thank you! So the difference between Baxter and Hoops is one started coaching the Uni side before he was chief coach but in a Championship Club and the other started with the academy and went to DoR in a Premier Club! Neither earned their badges elsewhere. Food for thought!



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
09 December, 2019 04:37
Quote:
CoochieCoo
Thank you! So the difference between Baxter and Hoops is one started coaching the Uni side before he was chief coach but in a Championship Club and the other started with the academy and went to DoR in a Premier Club! Neither earned their badges elsewhere. Food for thought!

I think that extra experience at a lower level ie Championship as against Premiership was a vital difference so less scrutiny & pressure to succeed & carry the can. I presume there was someone above Baxter & he may have been working on his coaching badge?

Ali1969
Ali1969
09 December, 2019 07:17
Personally I think we are very much in a relegation battle and I do think a so called Rugby giant will be relegated this season and a lot will come down to luck and by that I mean injuries, how many players are lost to national duty, it will also come down to who reacts first and decisively, these things do not just fix themselves. We have issues without doubt our squad is just not good enough, without injuries we have a competitive 23 with injuries we have a competitive 15 and recently it has really showed when you compare when opposition go to the bench and when we do, Friday was a really good example, and we do not appear to have a playing style the players genuinely look confused.

As for Rob Baxter I have played many times against him, he is a proper one club man, boy and child he has Exeter running through his veins the club truly means something to him and Tony Rowe you cannot buy that.

On another note I can remember watching Bath as a child when we regularly played the likes of Berry Hill and Lydney before the revolution of Jack Rowell, we have strived since Jack's departure to replace him and if we are honest we have failed to do so.

I will always love the Club but it is heartbreaking to hear promises and rhetoric from senior management about Challenging for trophies and titles and in reality we are trying to build a castle on foundations made of sand.. I feel sorry for all the supporters and also the players past and present who deserve better.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
09 December, 2019 08:19
Quote:
CoochieCoo
Thank you! So the difference between Baxter and Hoops is one started coaching the Uni side before he was chief coach but in a Championship Club and the other started with the academy and went to DoR in a Premier Club! Neither earned their badges elsewhere. Food for thought!

You're ignoring the fact that Baxter learned his trade in the Championship, although I guess Hooper may well be doing that with Bath soon.

Also it took Baxter 7 years to win the PL, I certainly am not interested in waiting that long. Saints have already demonstrated that with the correct DOR massive improvements can be made quickly.

warrenball
warrenball
09 December, 2019 08:30
One other slight difference CC, Baxter got promotion in his first year in charge, I am certainly prepared to give Hooper my complete blessing if he has similar success, but it is nearly Christmas and it is looking a little unlikely.

Agree completely with your comments Ali, the days of Jack Rowell are just dim and distant memories.

fat lock
fat lock
09 December, 2019 08:34
The Rob Baxter comparison is interesting.
Other than Baxter being an Exeter man to his DNA and Stuart being a relatively late joiner to Bath, it strikes me that the major difference is that Baxter did take his coaching seriously - getting badges, experience and then being a Head Coach before becoming DOR.
There is a definite progression to be seen as he gathered experience.
Hoops has moved straight into the DOR role with no formal coaching qualifications or experience.
That, I think is the concern.

A genuine question - Can someone be an effective DOR without a period of time as a HC ?
I guess the Hooper experiment will help answer that.

Not that copying successful structures of others necessarily results in similar performances, but all other premiership clubs (with the exception of Tigers) have DORs who have had extensive experience as coaches (usually as head coach)

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
09 December, 2019 08:56
Quote:
Ali1969
Personally I think we are very much in a relegation battle and I do think a so called Rugby giant will be relegated this season and a lot will come down to luck and by that I mean injuries, how many players are lost to national duty, it will also come down to who reacts first and decisively, these things do not just fix themselves. .

I 100% agree with that & the sooner the club realise it the better which surely includes sourcing back up players. The trouble with Hooper presiding over a struggling club is that for all his undoubted qualities, which some will argue about, he doesnít have any experience & confidence to draw upon. Part of him will be worrying about how he is coping. That is only natural. All our competitors have more experience at the helm. A big beast will probably go down & we are certainly in the mix.

cb2
cb2
09 December, 2019 09:07
Our internationals would go and we have a terrible record at developing young backs. We are not a club who would benefit from this. With Exeter doing well and Bristol on the up, we need to stay in the shop window.

Bath also needs to have a structure in place where we can bring through the future stars, whilst winning games at the same time in the Premiership. I can't see Cook, Chudley, Burns, Priestland and Roberts being the future for us but we don't seem to be trying anything else. It shouldn't take relegation to sort this out. It's been obvious for years.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
09 December, 2019 09:22
Quote:
TG Kesmo
Actually I did read it. The magic bit was a bit of a give away. Coaches come out of a budget too, where is this bail out money to afford a mid season addition to coaching staff. They would need to be bought out of existing contracts and paid a reasonable salary on arrival. Did you seriously think we would retain all the existing coaching staff in this case.. I see it as a similar to why we didnít replace Matson mid season no one decent available no extra money. Not gonna happen..

The structure of the coaching setup is critical and would be a good investment compared to a relegation and the upheaval that it would cause. If no one is available or lined up for 2020 onwards then give the role to Hats who has good experience of elite level and knows the club. We assume he is happy at Bath or he would not have returned, he knows many of the squad and can pass on a lot of what he has picked up with England. This would be a sensible move with no dramas or disruption. Who can turn their club around the quickest, Hats or Borthwick?

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
09 December, 2019 09:25
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
CoochieCoo
Thank you! So the difference between Baxter and Hoops is one started coaching the Uni side before he was chief coach but in a Championship Club and the other started with the academy and went to DoR in a Premier Club! Neither earned their badges elsewhere. Food for thought!

You're ignoring the fact that Baxter learned his trade in the Championship, although I guess Hooper may well be doing that with Bath soon.

Err I actually pointed out that was the difference between them!



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
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MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
09 December, 2019 09:26
Quote:
cb2
Our internationals would go and we have a terrible record at developing young backs. We are not a club who would benefit from this. With Exeter doing well and Bristol on the up, we need to stay in the shop window.
Bath also needs to have a structure in place where we can bring through the future stars, whilst winning games at the same time in the Premiership. I can't see Cook, Chudley, Burns, Priestland and Roberts being the future for us but we don't seem to be trying anything else. It shouldn't take relegation to sort this out. It's been obvious for years.

That is just fundamentally wrong!

The academy, Beechen Cliff, and names like TDG, Orlando Bailey, Gabriel Hamer-Webb, Max Ojomoh. Ollie Fox.

There are others that I've missed, Bathmatt is regularly pointing this out?



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
09 December, 2019 09:41
Quote:
CoochieCoo
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
CoochieCoo
Thank you! So the difference between Baxter and Hoops is one started coaching the Uni side before he was chief coach but in a Championship Club and the other started with the academy and went to DoR in a Premier Club! Neither earned their badges elsewhere. Food for thought!

You're ignoring the fact that Baxter learned his trade in the Championship, although I guess Hooper may well be doing that with Bath soon.

Err I actually pointed out that was the difference between them!

Apologies, I thought you were trying to put a positive spin on Hooper's appointment.

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
09 December, 2019 11:19
I fully concur with your post Ali1965. A big beast will drop this year and we are very much in the scramble for league points. This should be our priority and nothing else. Without survival, we have not got a prayer in attracting new talent, local or otherwise, and more importantly, it puts the financial viability of the desperately needed new stadium in doubt. Even if we do build it whilst in the Championship, filling it will only be a remote possibility. It would take more years than I care to think about to get back to the Prem and with the debt of the new stadium, highly unlikely we could afford to 'buy' in the talent needed to survive.

Survival is all we can hope for, and to be honest, no more than I wish for this season. That does buy time for the Club to sort itself out, whatever that means.

I am no fan of the Hooper experiment, and it is that, but whoever was in that role with his experience would struggle. Watching the players shows to me that they are neither fully conversant or on board with the tactics we play and still don't show the fighting spirit, collective togetherness or nouse to succeed. Watching Bath at the moment is like seeing a car crash evole in front of you over which you have no control apart from offering undying support. It certainly is a concern to me.



Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.

The Jink Joseph.

Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

cb2
cb2
09 December, 2019 11:20
shipwrecked - I am writing about the young backs we have brought through the academy and who have been successful in a Bath shirt. The intake is always good but we don't develop these guys into top quality players. That is the problem.

When was the last time we developed a star 9 or 10 from a junior age? Maybe Gareth Cooper who last played for us in 2002? We rely on taking in young backs from places like the Irish academy and then bringing in older players whose best years are behind them like Priesland, Chudley and Roberts. Let's bring on players of our own and combine them with top quality signings of players in their prime.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
09 December, 2019 12:34
Ok, that side of it I fully understand cb2.



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

P G Tips
P G Tips
09 December, 2019 12:51
Quite right about the 9s & 10s CB2, but the examples shipwrecked names are all players of real potential. It is too early to say whether they will develop into top quality players - that we will only know in the future.

The recent changes to the Academy system and the development programme at Beechen Cliff are designed to do just that.When/if the likes of TDG, Hamer-Webb etc are regular starters for Bath & interesting national selectors we will know. Until then, these are guys just out of Uni (or in some cases school)so we cannot expect overnight success.

PG

Banachek
Banachek
09 December, 2019 14:23
Four years ago, I was watching a grass roots youth Rugby league game in South London , I was watching my youngest son who was playing for a RL club (during the summer months) . During the game he sat down (as you can only do in RL) an absolute monster of a player on the opposition. That player was Jo Kpoko.
The point is clubs like Saracens who are generally seen as having the best Academy setups and bringing through players and developing them, they look at players from all backgrounds from far and wide including RL.
I think Bath relying on Beechem and a few players from the Uni, is not going to produce a stream of top class players coming through the academy for the future. IMO

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
09 December, 2019 14:32
Quote:
Banachek
Four years ago, I was watching a grass roots youth Rugby league game in South London , I was watching my youngest son who was playing for a RL club (during the summer months) . During the game he sat down (as you can only do in RL) an absolute monster of a player on the opposition. That player was Jo Kpoko.
The point is clubs like Saracens who are generally seen as having the best Academy setups and bringing through players and developing them, they look at players from all backgrounds from far and wide including RL.
I think Bath relying on Beechem and a few players from the Uni, is not going to produce a stream of top class players coming through the academy for the future. IMO

They do a bit of everything don't they? Attract players to Beechen for the AASE and unit teams, look at other young prospects released from other academies (such as Obano) and hire from places like Leeds.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

opti
Optimist
09 December, 2019 15:00
' ... Bath relying on Beechem and a few players from the Uni, is not going to produce a stream of top class players coming through the academy for the future. IMO'

Beechen is, essentially, an Academy in its own right. They recruit players from far and wide. Likewise the University. Bath don't recruit 'from' the University - they recruit 'to' the University. Both set-ups give them a much larger pool of players who they can monitor. The Bath coaches are involved at Beechen/Uni and many of the players train at Farleigh as part of their programme.

Banachek
Banachek
09 December, 2019 15:04
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
Banachek
Four years ago, I was watching a grass roots youth Rugby league game in South London , I was watching my youngest son who was playing for a RL club (during the summer months) . During the game he sat down (as you can only do in RL) an absolute monster of a player on the opposition. That player was Jo Kpoko.
The point is clubs like Saracens who are generally seen as having the best Academy setups and bringing through players and developing them, they look at players from all backgrounds from far and wide including RL.
I think Bath relying on Beechem and a few players from the Uni, is not going to produce a stream of top class players coming through the academy for the future. IMO

They do a bit of everything don't they? Attract players to Beechen for the AASE and unit teams, look at other young prospects released from other academies (such as Obano) and hire from places like Leeds.

Well if you look on the Bath website well over 50% of the academy players are from Beechen and then a couple of other Rugby schools, that's fine i'm sure they are great players with good potential but seems a bit insular to me...

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
09 December, 2019 15:45
Yes they are from Beechen because they were encouraged to go to Beechen 6th form or below, as Opti points out. Many of the kids currently at Beechen have arrived there from far and wide in order that they can train and play together before they formally enter the academy, senior academy etc.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Banachek
Banachek
09 December, 2019 20:06
Quote:
BathMatt53
Yes they are from Beechen because they were encouraged to go to Beechen 6th form or below, as Opti points out. Many of the kids currently at Beechen have arrived there from far and wide in order that they can train and play together before they formally enter the academy, senior academy etc.


I hope so, at the end of the day there is a lot of potential talent out there, lets not miss out on it, I also think a lot of lads develop later than (13 to 16), so if you select for a pathway too early you can end up missing some gems.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
09 December, 2019 20:08
Am I right in thinking that clubs arenít allowed to poach across regional boundaries (ie there are academy Ďcatchmentsí)?



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Banachek
Banachek
09 December, 2019 20:25
Quote:
BathMatt53
Am I right in thinking that clubs arenít allowed to poach across regional boundaries (ie there are academy Ďcatchmentsí)?

That might be new , but I know a lad who was in the Saracens catchment and was signed to Northampton academy and besides if the catchment club doesn't see anything in them (or is already stocked with a couple of similar players) . Don't think they could or should be able to stop another club offering something.

DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy
09 December, 2019 21:07
Banacheck - As an example, Orlando Bailey is a Dorchester lad who Bath have moved to Beechencliff.

On the catchment side, I think if the catchment club academy pathway (DPP) doesn't want the player then they are free to look elsewhere. I know of an U16 from Dorset who didn't make the Bath DPP but is now in the L Irish DPP for example.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
09 December, 2019 21:10
The DPP (U13s-u16) has catchment areas, as shown below.

[www.bathrugby.com]

The Bath DPP catchment area is outlined below:

- Dorset
- Wiltshire
- Part of Somerset (Unitary Authorities of Mendip, South Somerset, Bath and NE Somerset)

The AASE refers to catchment areas but I couldnít find a list of these (or whether they differ from those above).



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Banachek
Banachek
10 December, 2019 12:55
[quote Dorset Boy] Banacheck - As an example, Orlando Bailey is a Dorchester lad who Bath have moved to Beechencliff.

Good for him and hopefully he'll take full advantage of his opportunity and make the most of his talent. But Dorchester is in Dorset so in the Bath catchment, so not really- "arrived there from far and wide in order that they can train and play together before they formally enter the academy, senior academy etc. . )
Are there any lads who have come into the academy from another route ( ie not other academies but other schools or amateur clubs ) or is that the only route via Beechen ?

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
10 December, 2019 13:43
Yes. People like Levi Davis:

[www.bathchronicle.co.uk]

Davis was involved in Leicester Tigers Academy while he was on a sporting scholarship at Denstone College in the Midlands but wasnít offered a long-term deal

Or Levi Douglas:

[www.bathrugby.com]

Douglas joined Bath Rugby Academy from French side Oyonnax at the end of the 2015.

The existing academy aren't all at BC - some at Canford etc. but all should be in the catchment - that's the point of it before adult contracts are awarded (or not). Example of this team sheet:

[www.bathrugby.com]



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]


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