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ballsout
ballsout
15 December, 2019 18:31
Bob goes too far but I can’t believe the excuses being made on here.

Our skills are non-existent. We can’t string phases together. Our entire attack consists of one-out carrying. Discipline is terrible. Setpiece poor. Haven’t seen an offload since 2018. Pulled apart in defence.

There’s always an excuse. “England players away” “Hats not here yet” “Lots of injuries” “second string side”

None of that makes any difference when the performance of the players that do take to the field is so inept.

Never thought I’d say this but I hope we lose many more games this season, starting at London Irish. They’re a good side this year. We certainly aren’t. Maybe that’ll instigate the reboot this sorry excuse for a club needs.

Long Term
Long Term
15 December, 2019 18:37
Quote:
ballsout
Bob goes too far but I can’t believe the excuses being made on here.
Our skills are non-existent. We can’t string phases together. Our entire attack consists of one-out carrying. Discipline is terrible. Setpiece poor. Haven’t seen an offload since 2018. Pulled apart in defence.

There’s always an excuse. “England players away” “Hats not here yet” “Lots of injuries” “second string side”

None of that makes any difference when the performance of the players that do take to the field is so inept.

Never thought I’d say this but I hope we lose many more games this season, starting at London Irish. They’re a good side this year. We certainly aren’t. Maybe that’ll instigate the reboot this sorry excuse for a club needs.

In getting to the stage whereby you are willing the club to loose games I would suggest you stop 'supporting ' the club completely I'm sure you will feel a lot better, I know I will!

TG Kesmo
TG Kesmo
15 December, 2019 18:52
Quote:
ballsout
Bob goes too far but I can’t believe the excuses being made on here.
Our skills are non-existent. We can’t string phases together. Our entire attack consists of one-out carrying. Discipline is terrible. Setpiece poor. Haven’t seen an offload since 2018. Pulled apart in defence.

There’s always an excuse. “England players away” “Hats not here yet” “Lots of injuries” “second string side”

None of that makes any difference when the performance of the players that do take to the field is so inept.

Never thought I’d say this but I hope we lose many more games this season, starting at London Irish. They’re a good side this year. We certainly aren’t. Maybe that’ll instigate the reboot this sorry excuse for a club needs.

I think you need to take a time out - wishing “your” team to lose is a sign that you have maybe lost the plot when it comes to being a supporter. The difference between you and me is that I will never wish for Bath to lose under any circumstances and if I offer any criticism it is aimed at being constructive so that performances can improve.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
15 December, 2019 18:59
As annoyed all of us are by a big loss the players, coaching staff and owner are more annoyed. Besides which it’s only a game. A sense of perspective required IMO.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
15 December, 2019 19:00
Ballsout you have been abusive about a coach on this thread. I am sure you would not say it to his face. You make some good points but it is spoilt by personal abuse of individuals. Any more abuse towards individuals of the club will attract a further longer ban.



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
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ballsout
ballsout
15 December, 2019 19:04
I assume you two were over in France like I was then?

That’s great if you want to be a pom pom waving cheerleader who refuses to see that a complete overhaul of this sorry club is needed.

I’ve been supporting a long time so don’t ever question my interest or emotional attachment or integrity.

I’m happy to sit through short term pain for long term gain. We’ve been stumbling through the seasons for years. Enough is enough or Bristol really will leave us in the dust. If they haven’t already.

opti
Optimist
15 December, 2019 19:06
PGT - given that ‘nobody has ever seen bo and BoB in the same place at the same time’ is it safe to assume we’re going to be spared the enervating drivel of both handles?

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
15 December, 2019 19:28
Quote:
OutsideBath
FFS the players did not roll over, they were well beaten by the better team. Did they make mistakes? Absolutely, but your statements suggesting they aren’t trying their best is offensive.

+1



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
15 December, 2019 19:31
I feel for those making the trip and understand the frustration, but you have to watch your team knowing sport can be painful and unrewarding.

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
15 December, 2019 19:35
I'm gone. Look forward to reading how some people justify our performances over the coming weeks along with those of the club representatives at all levels of the establishment.

I sincerely hope of above all else we can maintain our participation in the Premiership. Presently, I have sincere doubts the club can. There is no excuse if we do not as we have the resources and the talents but regrettably not the leadership it appears.



Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.

The Jink Joseph.

Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

Kidney Stone
Kidney Stone
15 December, 2019 19:40
The ref was not the reason we were rinsed, however he was extremely poor.

Rory McC was well off of the mark today, and would normally expect more from Tom Homer.

I worry every time we pack down with Boyce at loose head, he does not appear to have the technical skills or the physicality to operate at this level.

On the positive side, Stooke had a great game and the midfielders were not too shabby either.

Lets get it right next week!,,

ballsout
ballsout
15 December, 2019 19:56
Boyce, Green, Fox, Walker... all Leeds boys parachuted in by Rock and Hooper. Northern lads so they must be good.

To be fair, I always feel bad when an up and coming player signs for Bath. Knowing his development will nose dive and he’ll never reach his potential.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
15 December, 2019 20:23
Just watched the game. I dont know what more we could have expected. We (correctly) send a second team to one of the best teams in Europe and we get beaten. We didn't give up, we scored 4 tries and the pack looked good. Move on.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

JFPC
JFPC
15 December, 2019 20:31
If you'd offered me a try bonus point before the game I'd have taken your hand off!



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
15 December, 2019 20:44
Quote:
JFPC
If you'd offered me a try bonus point before the game I'd have taken your hand off!

Yes, unexpected, does look like Neal Hatley is getting to grips with the pack. the rolling maul looked a real weapon today.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

TG Kesmo
TG Kesmo
15 December, 2019 21:05
Quote:
ballsout
Boyce, Green, Fox, Walker... all Leeds boys parachuted in by Rock and Hooper. Northern lads so they must be good.
To be fair, I always feel bad when an up and coming player signs for Bath. Knowing his development will nose dive and he’ll never reach his potential.
Give it a rest will you they were offered a contract which they accepted they must have a very different opinion from you. Whose is more informed?

MESSAGES->author
FourSticks
15 December, 2019 21:23
It seems to me that Hooper is insisting on a style of play that is alien to most of our players. It's analogous to a right hander having to learn how to write with their left hand - they are making elementary mistakes as they learn the skill.

So we give the players more time to learn how to play Hooper's way and hopefully, as Mike Williams has intimated, they're inches away rather than miles off.

The real trouble is, is Hooper's way a strategy that will reward with cups? From what I've seen so far, it appears too rudimentary and one-dimensional to be successful. Perhaps the next three matches will prove me wrong.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
15 December, 2019 21:36
Emotional responses aside, who do we think really put their hand up today for a place in the 23 against Irish? Williams, Stooke?



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
15 December, 2019 21:39
Quote:
FourSticks
It seems to me that Hooper is insisting on a style of play that is alien to most of our players. It's analogous to a right hander having to learn how to write with their left hand - they are making elementary mistakes as they learn the skill.
So we give the players more time to learn how to play Hooper's way and hopefully, as Mike Williams has intimated, they're inches away rather than miles off.

The real trouble is, is Hooper's way a strategy that will reward with cups? From what I've seen so far, it appears too rudimentary and one-dimensional to be successful. Perhaps the next three matches will prove me wrong.

I think a better question is "is Hoopers way a strategy that will avoid relegation this season?". I think yes. Other opinions are available.

But I do think we need to think about how we invest. We have 3 test Lions. All have been unavailable to us either through injury or test call ups for the majority of the last 3 years and only one of them is in a key decision making position on the field.

I think we should consider 2, 8, 9, 10 and 15 as our key investment positions and throw money at highly experienced players in these positions who will be available to us at all times. Once that spine is in place, the rest of the players need not be of such high quality. Not easy, sure, but other clubs seem to manage it.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
15 December, 2019 21:43
How about Cook?

ballsout
ballsout
15 December, 2019 21:46
Quote:
BathMatt53
Emotional responses aside, who do we think really put their hand up today for a place in the 23 against Irish? Williams, Stooke?

Well half the team was first choice, so most of them I suspect.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
15 December, 2019 21:49
That wasn’t the question, for example we are seriously limited at 12. Who on the field today made themselves one of the first names on the teamsheet through merit (rather than necessity)?



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
15 December, 2019 21:55
Not sure any made the case that they have to be in the starting 15 next week. 1 or 2 may well have played themselves out of contention.

Difficult to say though given how we were blown away at the start.

TomReagan
TomReagan
15 December, 2019 22:06
Ballsout's right. My mate was bemoaning us putting out a reserve team, but it wasn't exactly a 2nd XV. Who did we rest? Underhill and Dunn came on, so against Irish hopefully we can add Joseph, Roko, Flo, Obano and Stuart. Some might say Priestland and Chudley are our first choice half backs, but that's debatable. It would be simplistic to blame individuals in the backs- collectively Clermont's backs were a class above in every facet of the game, but too many tackles were missed and several of those backs will be starting next weekend. McNally was good when he came on and Williams continues to impress me. The pack were collectively pretty good once again. I expected our reserve front row to be smashed in the scrum but they stood up well. I can only hope that those players rested put in suitably refreshed performances and those who suffered what was a bit of a pasting can positively channel the frustration they must be feeling. Finally, it's rare not to find away fans hospitable at European venues, but Clermont was something special.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
15 December, 2019 22:09
Not sure what happened with the lineout in the first half, but Jack Walker seemed to be having a nightmare. Is Batty injured?

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
15 December, 2019 22:39
Quote:
BathMatt53
That wasn’t the question, for example we are seriously limited at 12. Who on the field today made themselves one of the first names on the teamsheet through merit (rather than necessity)?

Ellis did OK, not sure about Wright, thats a class set of backs, but he looked to struggle for pace when drifting and was put on his bum by Raka, but then his is big lump to stop. Let's not forget Freddy, though showed variety and to please one person on here did a little chip over the top, went wrong but it does keep the opposition guessing.
Cook, I can't decide, threatened round the fringes, but missed touch for the last try, having said that he had one enormous clearance.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

DaveOfTrow
GrumpyDave
16 December, 2019 00:00
Just back home from Clermont. Great place. After the game in the bar some geyser with a microphone started interviewing me n french. No idea what he was asking but I’m told that (a) it was broadcast through the stadium and (b) I may have offered an opinion on Brexit in less than parliamentary terms. Sorry bout that. Not my idea.
But boy what a great gig. Loved it, though not so much the result.

ballsout
ballsout
16 December, 2019 00:04
Quote:
shipwrecked
Let's not forget Freddy, though showed variety and to please one person on here did a little chip over the top, went wrong but it does keep the opposition guessing.

Always goes wrong. Without fail. Clermont gained about 40 metres from it.

The man on the Clapham omnibus
The man on the Clapham omnibus
16 December, 2019 01:08
C'mon gents, fair play, some of Clermont's play was quite brilliant and I enjoyed watching [on TV]. Some of the running lines were exquisite. Would have thought some of our rugby cognoscenti would appreciate some of that. To those who seem to get so little enjoyment from watching the club of which I am proud to be a lifelong supporter [and always will be] I should point out that [many] other clubs are available to cater for their rugby watching needs. Try somewhere else. Your seats will quickly be filled!

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
16 December, 2019 05:48
Quote:
JFPC
If you'd offered me a try bonus point before the game I'd have taken your hand off!

But would you have really been happy shipping 50+ points against any team?

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
16 December, 2019 07:17
Quote:
Bath Hammer
Quote:
JFPC
If you'd offered me a try bonus point before the game I'd have taken your hand off!

But would you have really been happy shipping 50+ points against any team?

It was Clermont Auvergne at the Stade Marcel Michelin. Sometimes you just have to put your hand up and accept that you are out-matched.

I thought Tom Ellis did well as captain. His ref management seemed very good, he was able to keep the team going when they were under the cosh and his own performance did not seem to suffer with the added responsibility.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Ali1969
Ali1969
16 December, 2019 08:57
Watched the game alongside a good friend from the old playing days who was down visiting over Xmas period First and foremost whatever anyone suggests the team that took the field yesterday was Bath FC 1st XV simple as that - they were representing the club in that capacity and people can quibble about whether certain players were missing, rested or otherwise...the simple fact is that team was our 1st XV.

The performance and perceived attitude and this was interesting for me from my friend who used to play first class rugby up in the North and he made some interesting observations in relation to Bath.

1. He felt the Bath players looked like individuals, he felt there was a real lack of team bonding, he commented on how easy Clermont dictated phases of the game and in reality our performance made them look a lot better than they actually were, he even commented at times that Clermont were in training mode although we both praised Clermont as you can only play what is in front of you.

2. Questioned what our identity was?? the players look confused and at times completely lost, stated whenever he used to play against Bath you knew you were in for a hard fought day at the office, on the evidence of yesterday he said the team was non-recognisible and there was a real "soft under belly", which is a real concern and by this he quantified that by saying he had noticed that Bath this season appear to concede points far too easy and in doubling this up in quick succession, teams are hitting Bath and then repeatedly hitting them again in quick succession knowing that Bath at the moment do not appear to be able to create many scoring opportunities other than through their forwards and before you know it the game is gone.

3. And perhaps this was the most telling of his observations, he felt we as a club on yesterdays performance were in real trouble, real relegation prospects, he just felt the players were showing signs of not believing in the management or the pathway identified, he commented on the attacking play being practically non-existent and without that element in this day and age you are in real trouble...and that is real flashing red beacon time.

At the end of the day as he stated we are fortunate in the fact the Tigers and he does not feel Wasps are in same situation, are in exactly the same situation as we are although he did feel Tigers may well edge us due to what he calls "better players" Ford, May et al involvement.

That is a true non bias view of our club at present from a person who has played rugby at a high level and to be fair if we take off our rose tinted glasses and actually look at what he said, well I think he is pretty much spot on with his analysis.

I personally do not feel it is all doom and gloom, we have some really important fixtures coming up and hopefully some big players coming back. I do feel we need to act and recognise the issues which are clearly prevalent, there has to be a meeting of all concerned to address some of the very obvious issues and a decisive decision making is required in order to give us enough time to turn this round, for if we don't make no bones about it we will be in the Championship next year unless a deal is done to red ring relegation to prevent a so called Rugby Giant from going down.

Whilst many of you will feel this is a negative post, it is not meant to be, however what it is an independent view of how someone who knows a bit about rugby feels about the state of health of our club....Whilst I do remain positive and believe he does make some very valiant points.

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
16 December, 2019 09:07
Thank you Ali1969 all valid (and valiant) criticisms and I hope the Club reads them and put in the necessary action to correct the situation



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
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MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
16 December, 2019 09:18
I doubt very much the club cares that much what we think of the current situation and will be amazed if they take any action before the end of the season.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
16 December, 2019 09:20
Quote:
CoochieCoo
Thank you Ali1969 all valid (and valiant) criticisms and I hope the Club reads them and put in the necessary action to correct the situation

That is the question. An ethos or identity has to be grown, not put in place by dictat, and that takes time. I'm pinning my hopes on the fact that the Tigs don't have a functioning pack so George is likely to struggle.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

ballsout
ballsout
16 December, 2019 09:21
Good post Ali1969, couldn't agree more. As to your/his first point though, we've looked like a set of individuals for years now, it's nothing new.

JFPC
JFPC
16 December, 2019 09:22
Quote:
Bath Hammer
Quote:
JFPC
If you'd offered me a try bonus point before the game I'd have taken your hand off!

But would you have really been happy shipping 50+ points against any team?

I think if Bath are going to lose by 26 odd points I'd rather they scored some points. So 52-26 is better than 26-0.



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
16 December, 2019 09:24
The question from me is, "Why doesn't any of our prophets of doom recognise that there are things this team do well?"

We had, "This team can't put phases together" we do that now, no penetration, but we put phases together.
We had, "This team can't win a line-out" we do that now, in fact its becoming a strength.
We had, "Why is our rolling maul a shambles" we do that now, in fact we score tries from it.

We may be discontinuous as a side and lack identity, but a little success brings confidence and team spirit develops from that.

Hooper is doing what he said he would do, starting with the pack, add to that Hatley seems to be improving our technical ability. The backs are miles away but behind a pack going forward they will only improve surely. I don't really understand why relegation is waved as a threat either, if it happens then so be it. However, I see a clear plan from the club to avoid it.

Finally, it may have been our first team on paper but it clearly was not our best XV players available.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
16 December, 2019 09:34
As a fanbase we could certainly do with a bit of good news (I've asked Santa for an Underhill renewal).

Does anyone still buy TRP? Has Bath been linked with anyone exciting to replace those who are likely to leave (such as in the midfield?).



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

hantssabre
hantssabre
16 December, 2019 09:34
However good the forwards are we will never get anywhere with the halfbacks we currently have

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
16 December, 2019 09:39
Quote:
hantssabre
However good the forwards are we will never get anywhere with the halfbacks we currently have

Many on here agree with that, problem is finding suitable replacements that are good enough to dominate and not so good that they are poached by French club sides and their financial resources.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
16 December, 2019 09:44
Quote:
BathMatt53
As a fanbase we could certainly do with a bit of good news (I've asked Santa for an Underhill renewal).
Does anyone still buy TRP? Has Bath been linked with anyone exciting to replace those who are likely to leave (such as in the midfield?).

Whilst we are in a relegation battle it’s going to be difficult to convince players to renew.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
16 December, 2019 09:48
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
BathMatt53
As a fanbase we could certainly do with a bit of good news (I've asked Santa for an Underhill renewal).
Does anyone still buy TRP? Has Bath been linked with anyone exciting to replace those who are likely to leave (such as in the midfield?).

Whilst we are in a relegation battle it’s going to be difficult to convince players to renew.

But also significant if they do! It would mean they buy in to the club's plans. They players are the best barometer of the club's morale.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
16 December, 2019 10:06
We play 5th, 6th and 7th in the next 3 games. If we were to beat LI we could jump above them. Wasps and Quins (who are either side of us) play each other this weekend, as do Worcs and Glos. Tigers play exe.

I think that its too early to call it a 'relegation battle' unless its a battle that everyone from 4th downwards is in - Bath could be mid table by Sunday night, or 11th.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
16 December, 2019 10:11
BM your glass is half full, whereas mine is well and truly empty with regard to our fortunes. For me we are definitely one of the relegation favourites.

I see the situation as black and white with regard to our coaching setup and our fortunes this season.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
16 December, 2019 10:16
Believe me, if we lose these 3 (massive) games I will be on the dregs OB!



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
16 December, 2019 10:22
Quote:
OutsideBath
BM your glass is half full, whereas mine is well and truly empty with regard to our fortunes. For me we are definitely one of the relegation favourites.
I see the situation as black and white with regard to our coaching setup and our fortunes this season.

Stop transferring between sports OB, just because your favourite football club is heading south it doesn't mean your favourite rugby club is going to mimic them!



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

ballsout
ballsout
16 December, 2019 10:24
Quote:
shipwrecked
We had, "This team can't put phases together" we do that now, no penetration, but we put phases together.

No we don't. Maybe on a couple of occasions yesterday but most of the time it was our usual 2 or 3 passes, lose it, routine.

Quote:
We had, "This team can't win a line-out" we do that now, in fact its becoming a strength.

Erm, did you watch the game yesterday? We lost our first four lineouts. One on the Clermont 22 that resulted in a try for them, 15 seconds later.

Quote:
We had, "Why is our rolling maul a shambles" we do that now, in fact we score tries from it.

Hooray!! Well done Bath.

Quote:
I don't really understand why relegation is waved as a threat either, if it happens then so be it. However, I see a clear plan from the club to avoid it.

What plan? Is it supposed to be a good thing that we're talking about the club's "plan to avoid relegation" a few rounds into the season?

Quote:
Finally, it may have been our first team on paper but it clearly was not our best XV players available.

There's always an excuse for our constant underperformance. Without fail someone tries to paper over the cracks.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
16 December, 2019 10:33
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
OutsideBath
BM your glass is half full, whereas mine is well and truly empty with regard to our fortunes. For me we are definitely one of the relegation favourites.
I see the situation as black and white with regard to our coaching setup and our fortunes this season.

Stop transferring between sports OB, just because your favourite football club is heading south it doesn't mean your favourite rugby club is going to mimic them!

LOL

There’s a common theme, I support both teams and both have gone down the pan due to ineffective coaching.

dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865
16 December, 2019 10:38
Have you enjoyed anything about your trip to France, bo?

You've spent an awful lot of your time since moments after the final whistle yesterday online making the same point over and over again. Seems a bit of a shame to have gone all the way to France and to have spent so much of your stay hunched over your phone.

I'd recommend sight seeing and a good lunch to ease your frustrations.

MESSAGES->author
Widcombe Boy
16 December, 2019 10:58
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
BathMatt53
Bookies got it spot on. Better teams than Bath will lose by more than 25 points in that stadium.

Good grief.

I knew those nothing tries when Clermont had the bonus point wrapped up early would put a gloss on for supporters to latch onto. What a shame. For the first time in 20 years supporting this club I was hoping the opposition would score.

Don’t blame Hooper. Bath have been ngarbage for far longer than he’s been DOR. Blame the incompetence of the people who put him in this position. Craig and Tarquin. Andy Rock “performance director” don’t mamke me laugh. Useless.
Ballsout why didn't you go along to the Coaches evening in Clermont, to give them your views face to face and ask them some of the points you raise on here? Hooper & Tarquin were there together with Charteris & Mark Lilly

Ali1969
Ali1969
16 December, 2019 11:03
Following my lengthy previous post I would like to add we have many really good people who clearly will be and are hurting badly. We can turn this around I just feel we are not all looking in the same direction. Neal Hatley returning is massive simply massive and he will in the coming months make a huge difference. For whatever reason Girvan Dempsey has yet to establish his clearly talented views and skills onto the team but that may be down to the players as much as him. My real concern is proper direction and I am talking from above..

We need a game plan which suits the players we currently have and they need to believe that the management above truly believe in them and trust them, there is no point spending the entire salary cap on having world class back line if you have no ability or desire to use it....If that is the case just empty the budge on getting an all conquering pack and scrum half and play 9 man rugby. it really does come down to horses for courses...it seems to me at the moment we do not really know what type of team we are.

As I said this just a personal view from a true die hard supporter who loves this club.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
16 December, 2019 11:22
Quote:
CoochieCoo
Thank you Ali1969 all valid (and valiant) criticisms and I hope the Club reads them and put in the necessary action to correct the situation

I think any club on a losing streak benefits from a head coach with a real presence, a character, a task master, a comedian. Build the team around an inspiring natural leader, give the team an identity that it used to have.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
16 December, 2019 11:23
BO, contradicting yourself a little, you can't really recognise the rolling maul is working without the line-out but that is not really the point, we get and have got for a long time the fact that we are not functioning as a top class club.

My point is that there is improvement. The clubs plan is to concentrate on the premiership games. You have to recognise that that the pack under Hatley and Hooper is improving. Rugby is not a game of polar extremes, by that I mean we are not ALL bad in the same way as we are not ALL good.

I do however worry about the backs!



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
16 December, 2019 13:44
Quote:
ballsout
Good post Ali1969, couldn't agree more. As to your/his first point though, we've looked like a set of individuals for years now, it's nothing new.

+1 (Sm128)



Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

ballsout
ballsout
16 December, 2019 15:13
Quote:
shipwrecked
BO, contradicting yourself a little, you can't really recognise the rolling maul is working without the line-out but that is not really the point, we get and have got for a long time the fact that we are not functioning as a top class club.

When the lineout works, when it's not costing us tons of attacking ball or tries at the other end and (in the case of yesterday) when the opposition has stopped playing, our driving game from 5 metres out is pretty good. A huge improvement over the shambles it's been for years before this season. Charteris doing good work there.

It's a little sobering to think that's the only decent part of our game though. Our scrum can't be decent, but frankly, if we're looking at the Saints game, I'd hope any scrum would look good against Paul Hill and Ben Franks.

Quote:
My point is that there is improvement.

Yes we've taken 1 step forward (improvement) and 5 steps back elsewhere. It's hard to start dancing in the street at what we have improved on when literally everything else is either as poor as it's always been, or noticeably worse than last year.

MESSAGES->author
hasta
16 December, 2019 15:29
I think our forward play has definitely improved (although Jack Walker is a worry too often as a lineout thrower). I like the look of Josh McNally a lot. We're securing and retaining possession much better (although in terms of retaining, that's from a baseline of absolutely appalling and is still not good enough).

However, our attack is now an absolute shambles. We're as blunt as mud in midfield, the pattern is so lacking sophistication that it's embarrassing and we can't utilise our many expensive outside backs. We do not offload (this is clearly a direction from the coaches). For the game plan we're attempting we simply do not have (partially due to injury) sufficient heavy ball carriers to get our attack on the front foot. This has been shown up even more since Zach Mercer's injury as he could be relied on to carry and beat defenders at least via footwork.

Our defence is also extremely disappointing. Way too many cheap tries conceded.

MESSAGES->author
Widcombe Boy
16 December, 2019 15:54
On a positive note Clermont lived up to all expectations. The atmosphere in the Stadium is quite staggering. The supporters and people around the City are so welcoming.
To cap it all a great evening and sing song in Café Pascal with many Bath and Clermont supporters together with the entire referee team who really were great value. What a lovely guy Ben Whitehouse is.
Apart from the unsurprising result it was a joy to be in that stadium and watch a top quality team
A memorable weekend

ballsout
ballsout
16 December, 2019 17:41
We can barely pass the ball properly. It’d be auicide to attempt an offloading game.

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
17 December, 2019 04:20
There seem to be two areas where we are failing abysmally on a regular basis. One is ball retention & the other is lack of effectiveness of our back line. Clearly they are part of the same problem. We are not going to trouble any defence if we continually drop the ball, knock on & miss pass. However, on the occasions when we manage to retain possession for a number of phases we don’t look like breaking through & the wings hardly touch the ball. The attacking moves are telegraphed to such an extent that we are sitting targets for any defence. Because we get nowhere we end up kicking the ball straight back to the opposition. If the backs do score a rare try it is an individual effort rather than a cleverly worked move. We do have an attack coach who apparently had a major part in the success of Leinster. I would say we have seen virtually no improvement since he arrived. I have never seen the guy at a question & answer session or at any other time. It is time he poked his head above the parapet &explained exactly what he is doing. We may not have the ideal halfbacks but surely the group ca be coaxed into producing more than we are seeing at present???

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
17 December, 2019 07:20
Quote:
Bath Hammer
We do have an attack coach who apparently had a major part in the success of Leinster. I would say we have seen virtually no improvement since he arrived.

I would put it rather more strongly than that.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
17 December, 2019 07:44
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
Bath Hammer
We do have an attack coach who apparently had a major part in the success of Leinster. I would say we have seen virtually no improvement since he arrived.

I would put it rather more strongly than that.

Same, the attack (or lack of) has been particularly disastrous this season.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
17 December, 2019 07:49
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
Bath Hammer
We do have an attack coach who apparently had a major part in the success of Leinster. I would say we have seen virtually no improvement since he arrived.

I would put it rather more strongly than that.

Same, the attack (or lack of) has been particularly disastrous this season.

How on earth has Dempsey managed to hold on to his job?

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
17 December, 2019 07:56
Saints have 20 tries, Bristol have 15. Bath have 6 and Tigers have 5. It’s not pretty.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
17 December, 2019 08:04
Not contradicting anyone as our attack is pathetic currently but having half backs and midfield with these names in it might make it a little easier, Luke McGrath, Jonny Sexton, Robbie Henshaw, Gary Ringrose, Dave Kearney. What would we do to sign Sexton I wonder?

Not only that they are trying to sign this guy, Craig Casey heralded as the new Connor Murray! I could go on, fixtures, coaches (Lancaster and Cullen). If we wanted a model to build our club on Leinster would surely be it.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
17 December, 2019 08:04
Quote:
BathMatt53
Saints have 20 tries, Bristol have 15. Bath have 6 and Tigers have 5. It’s not pretty.

How many of those 6 as a result of attacking moves by the backs?

Seems like Hooper and his coaching team aren’t subject to regular performance reviews like most workers.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
17 December, 2019 08:06
Quote:
BathMatt53
Saints have 20 tries, Bristol have 15. Bath have 6 and Tigers have 5. It’s not pretty.

Well, the Tigs do have a real problem. They've got the starting England 9, 10, 11 and 13 and they *still* can't score tries.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
17 December, 2019 08:16
Of course Leinster had a stronger line up but although we have misgivings our backs are not hopeless. Surely a half decent attack coach could get more out of them. That is not the fault of Hooper. Dempsey is the weak link.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
17 December, 2019 08:33
Quote:
Bath Hammer
Of course Leinster had a stronger line up but although we have misgivings our backs are not hopeless. Surely a half decent attack coach could get more out of them. That is not the fault of Hooper. Dempsey is the weak link.

You would hope so BH, but I have to say there are times when our half back, the hinge, have been hopeless sorry to say.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

ballsout
ballsout
17 December, 2019 09:21
It's very easy to blame Dempsey but the reality is his hands are tied behind his back, thanks to the overall structure and "processes" put in place by Hooper and Rock. He's been completely negated. And it shows.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
17 December, 2019 09:27
Quote:
Bath Hammer
Of course Leinster had a stronger line up but although we have misgivings our backs are not hopeless. Surely a half decent attack coach could get more out of them. That is not the fault of Hooper. Dempsey is the weak link.

I disagree, Hooper is to blame as he has set his stall out on Plan A (dominant pack), there is no plan B when the pack isn't dominant or an attack plan. Dempsey has to share the blame though as there are enough ingredients to have a half decent attack.

It was clearly noticeable at the game on Sunday that Clermont backs new exactly what they were doing, whereas Bath backs looked static and confused when they got the ball. Our wingers just look bored as they wait in vain to get the ball with space in front of them.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
17 December, 2019 09:32
Quote:
ballsout
It's very easy to blame Dempsey but the reality is his hands are tied behind his back, thanks to the overall structure and "processes" put in place by Hooper and Rock. He's been completely negated. And it shows.

I’m not at Farleigh, but I disagree. He is either too passive if he really is negated in relation to attack structure by a former lock, or he is coaching things that are his idea and aren’t working. Either way he isn’t getting the results in the backs off a reasonable front 8 platform.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
17 December, 2019 09:54
I’d like to see Dempsey & other coaches given an opportunity to front up rather than it always being Hooper. I have never seen him so don’t even know what he looks like. Can we honestly say we have seen any team with a less effective back line than ourselves & they haven’t all got glittering luminaries in their lineup. We do have a number of past internationals & even current ones who occasionally make appearances. Chudleigh was good enough for Exeter & Priestland for a grand slam Welsh team.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
17 December, 2019 10:10
[www.somersetlive.co.uk]



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

opti
Optimist
17 December, 2019 10:28
Dempsey is listed as 'Attack and backs coach'. The nearest thing to a spark of invention i've seen this season has been Chudley on the wrap-around which hardly qualifies for Innovation of the Year. While weather and pitch conditions and circumstances haven't really lent themselves to free-flowing rugby these last 6 weeks you would hope to see some evidence that Dempsey is either allowed, or capable of some positive influence.

There's a few possible conclusions.

Leinster happened to possess - along with Ford/Farrell - one of world rugby's leading 'on-field coaches' in Sexton. Perhaps Dempsey's main quality there was to let Sexton get on with it?

Hooper picks the team, and, as a forward, measures a fly-half purely by the distance they can move up the pitch without anyone having to run, and as a lineout specialist, by the number of times the ball gets punted off the park. Hence Priestland over Burns.

The lack of a ball-playing inside centre leaves him with one hand tied behind his back (which is how Roberts appears to pass at times).

ballsout
ballsout
17 December, 2019 10:51
Suspect he won't be at the club much longer, yet another disgruntled bloke leaving the madhouse, who could blame him.

He's quality but rendered completely surplus to requirements by "process".

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
17 December, 2019 13:02
Quote:
BathMatt53
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/sport/other-sport/girvan-dempsey-gives-verdict-bath-2617829

Improvement! What ?



Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
17 December, 2019 13:12
Its quite an old article, but shows what he was aiming for.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
17 December, 2019 14:05
Quote:
BathMatt53
Its quite an old article, but shows what he was aiming for.

I guess that has to be chalked down as a monumental failure then.

He's got to be disappointed that opposition teams don't really have to worry too much about defending our "attack" plays and can ignore our wingers entirely.

gaz59
gaz59
17 December, 2019 14:29
And 33 missed tackles more than suggests a specialist defence coach might just help not ship quite so many tries

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
17 December, 2019 16:24
Quote:
gaz59
And 33 missed tackles more than suggests a specialist defence coach might just help not ship quite so many tries

Agree Gaz an obvious requirement along with a HC, but seems to be beyond Bath's management team to comprehend.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
18 December, 2019 07:28
[www.somersetlive.co.uk]



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
18 December, 2019 08:11
Got excited by the headline and thought we had dumped the experimental coaching setup. Then sadly it was just the same old stuff coming out of the club. Never mind though I’m sure they trained well.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
19 December, 2019 20:38
[www.bbc.co.uk]

This says just about everything about the differences in the English and Irish games atm. 27 changes for a Dublin vs Belfast derby game as the 1st teams are largely rested.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

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