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Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
11 January, 2020 01:02
Quote:
Big Chief Little Chief
As a neutral, I'd be far more upset if I was a Quins fan. That was a international front row which only achieved parity with a second choice Bath one. To me, Quins look like all is not well. They could well be in trouble come the end of the season.
We’ve lost to them twice so far therefore we are just as likely to be in trouble I fear.

I also couldn't decide if the ref was excellent or terrible, it was such a shock to see lineout throws pinged so often ( correctly) that it just confused me !

Also , how frustrating is Freddie Burns? Moments of class followed by really silly errors

Just so. Surely he wasn’t as erratic at Gloucester & Leicester? He offers something in attack but is too unreliable otherwise..



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2020 01:17 by Bath Hammer.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
11 January, 2020 01:26
A second team against a first team but just so frustrating. We stress the oppo defence and exactly when need to go quickly, we slow it all down and let them realign.

I liked the look of TDG very much. I'd start him at 10 against Ulster. The idea of Fred there fills me with dread and playing him won't tell us anything we don't already know.

Hope Ant's OK.

And a recurring observation. The TV commentary team were an absolute disgrace. You'd never have known there was another team on the pitch other than Quins. It's high time we stopped ex-players commentating on their old teams. It brings nothing but bias.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
11 January, 2020 06:06
I also find it odd JTF that Lol always gets picked for Wasps, Kay for Tigers etc. I means, those guys are actually Directors! Having said that I think that Kay (and evening Healey) are less one eyed than before. Lol and Ugo are the worst at that IMO.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
11 January, 2020 06:15
Ugh(o) has Quins oozing from every pore (Sm100)

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
11 January, 2020 08:33
The ground had the atmosphere of a friendly and on the pitch the intensity just wasn’t there from either side. Thought the forwards went well again, Hatley has done an excellent job. Hoping Batty was just rusty as his line out throwing was awful.

Yet again the attack was toothless, slow and lacking any form of coordination. The players looked utterly confused when the got the ball so just ran into the nearest defender.

When is Dempsey going to add any sort of value to the coaching setup? Our wingers must be bored rigid.

dannyf2
dannyf2
11 January, 2020 09:06
Willison gotta be straight in to the first choice 23. Thought Mike Williams was great tonight and the front row held their own against international competition. Burns is bonkers - all the talent but as reliable as a clapped out ford Escort. Disappointing result but individual positives.

warrenball
warrenball
11 January, 2020 09:14
Nice to see them throwing it about, but that is exactly what they are doing, using one or two runners before going to ground, we are lacking any attacking unity with runners offering several options for the player with the ball. We are also exposed against a fast moving defence (offside or not) as the fly half drops back and we seem to go easily on to the back foot, we have got to get flatter ball or use the chip more rather than trying to batter their way through.

Willison looked good and it will be nice to see him in the first team but I expect Hooper to revert to Priestland and keeping things tight for the rest of the season, unfortunately.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
11 January, 2020 10:20
I think Priestland, Willison and JJ (when available) would do fine tbh.

Kay made exactly the same point that we have been screaming about. In matches teams will get Half-break opportunities. Where Sarries, Saints etc will make the most of the defensive chaos and keep it loose (and capitalise as often as not) Bath often - in fact nearly always - panic, take it to ground, ruck etc which allows the defence to get back into shape. I don’t have the stats but we must be one of the teams who create fewest offloads in the prem? Look how well if worked in the first 40 against LI and how it just didn’t happen in the first 40 against glos, despite all the possession. Willison used to be known as the offload king, put him at 12 and let him get back to that.

Green has some lovely touches in this short time on the pitch IMO - breaks and cute (and quick) handling.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Long Term
Long Term
11 January, 2020 10:36
For a meaningless game in terms of result and with a second fifteen against the strongest team Harlequins could put I thought it was an enjoyable game with some good performances and good showing from the youngsters. It is very evident that some posters are going to use any negative aspects and result to add to past failings to write off the club management. I'm afraid it has to be realised we are at the start of a long process of development( yes again !!) with a coaching/management team put together by the man who pays for this club to still exist. There won't be a game when suddenly a switch is flicked and we become consistent world beaters. Why not enjoy the game for what it was with positives and negatives. A fit Willison makes a huge difference! I expect now to be admonished for not wailing and tearing my clothes asunder at the result with the rest of those who truly see and know.

MESSAGES->author
hasta
11 January, 2020 10:46
My frustration is it's another game (particularly in Europe) that we *should* have won. And we didn't win any of them. Which becomes a pattern. If we can start actually winning these games, I'm sure it will become a habit.

Our lineout falling apart was very frustrating.

What I'm very happy with is that our second choice front row who got bullied earlier in the season were extremely solid against an international front row and that our back row in Ellis, Bayliss and Williams were seriously competitive against Robshaw, Chisolm and Dombrandt. But.... we still desperately lack the ball-carriers to go with the attacking gameplan we apparently have.

Very pleased with Willison, Fox, TdG, gutted for Green. I assume Ant was taken off as a precaution. But our attack pattern must be adjusted and our defence isn't what it needs to be either.

MESSAGES->author
hasta
11 January, 2020 10:48
Oh and GH-W as well. Not sure that he shouldn't be getting a chance ahead of Roko at the moment tbh.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
11 January, 2020 10:49
Defence tough with a scratch team tbf - but they had the same in the midfield.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Long Term
Long Term
11 January, 2020 10:58
Quote:
hasta
My frustration is it's another game (particularly in Europe) that we *should* have won. And we didn't win any of them. Which becomes a pattern. If we can start actually winning these games, I'm sure it will become a habit.
Our lineout falling apart was very frustrating.

What I'm very happy with is that our second choice front row who got bullied earlier in the season were extremely solid against an international front row and that our back row in Ellis, Bayliss and Williams were seriously competitive against Robshaw, Chisolm and Dombrandt. But.... we still desperately lack the ball-carriers to go with the attacking gameplan we apparently have.



Very pleased with Willison, Fox, TdG, gutted for Green. I assume Ant was taken off as a precaution. But our attack pattern must be adjusted and our defence isn't what it needs to be either.

Yes I agree Hasta it is important to string results together as confidence plays a huge part in a successful team but of course other aspects effect the putting out of your strongest team every time. I gather Watson is now a doubt for the start of the six nations!

TomReagan
TomReagan
11 January, 2020 10:58
But we don't have the power runners they have. That back row guy who came on for Robshaw... huge and very fast, and a couple of their backs had the physiques of a Jamie Roberts but were very quick and offloaded. Our backline last night looked very small in comparison.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
11 January, 2020 11:12
We were done by their power runners Cavubati and Dombrandt I know they are huge guys but we just fell off them in the tackle repeatedly, Underhill?

I am beginning to think that our midfield problem is partly down to pace, TdG and Willison seemed to have zip that JR and RP lack. Freddie did at least run it back at them but did have a few horror moments, the long pass to Watson was painful to watch, and painful for Watson too.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
11 January, 2020 11:15
Quote:
Long Term
I'm afraid it has to be realised we are at the start of a long process of development( yes again !!).

You are absolutely right, we have clearly gone back to square one. However with the correct coaching/management team in place it doesn’t have to be a long process, Northampton have demonstrated that this season.

Sadly we have chosen the unqualified novice route which is likely to take at least 5 years before we start challenging again, if it actually works at all.

TG Kesmo
TG Kesmo
11 January, 2020 11:15
Looking at the 2 teams before hand I thought Quinn’s should have won easily especially given our poor scrummaging form against them previously. But was pleasantly surprised by the first half we definitely more than held our own. And there was some offloading and quick ball!!
The ref was a bit of a curates egg pulled up some off sides but missed a load of infringements at the breakdown. As a friendly it was quite enjoyable several youngsters had a run out end of move on.

bathwickboy
bathwickboy
11 January, 2020 11:15
I am not nearly disheartened as some on this board. I thought that our youngsters put up a very promising show against a team that was far more experienced and had a lot of international caps amongst them. I think Paul Gustard has more to worry about as some of his players looked as though they didn't want to be playing. I may be totally wrong but I have never seen Sinckler less fired up and Marler was very well behaved (for him!), even Danny Care was less mouthy than usual. Am not saying they weren't trying, but not fired up.
It was good to see Willison playing so well and he must be a better bet than Jamie Roberts for actually creating something in midfield. Roberts is/was a great player but he is very one dimensional and now lacking in pace of any sort. If you just want a bashing tackling centre , then fine, but I hope we are looking for something else.
Hooper takes a lot of unnecessary flak on this board. What is he supposed to say infront of the cameras each game. He has to defend the players that he coaches, he cannot stop dropped passes and crooked throws on the field when no doubt all week in training everything is fine. Just what is he supposed to say. I am sure that as a manager some blunt words are spoken behind closed doors and that is the way it should be.
Most of us want success for the club (perhaps one or two exceptions who would have nothing to moan about) and it is clear the players believe that they are a strong group of players who are moving in the right direction. They know that they are able to play better and are usually the first to accept their mistakes but give them more of a chance to get things right including Hoops.

Rokobilly
Rokobilly
11 January, 2020 11:27
It was frustrating to watch - the poor kicks to corner and worse line out execution at the end in particular - but it was a very young Bath team against Quins best available. I was surprised we were so close to nicking it.

Europe was effectively over the moment Stockdale intercepted Zach's pass to Roko in Game 1. Certainly by the mud wrestling at The Stoop in Game 2. This was about experience and developing squad both short term and longer. We won't see Anthony again until post 6N, just hope the knock isnt serious for his sake.

Its all about Leicester two weeks today.

Long Term
Long Term
11 January, 2020 12:02
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
Long Term
I'm afraid it has to be realised we are at the start of a long process of development( yes again !!).

You are absolutely right, we have clearly gone back to square one. However with the correct coaching/management team in place it doesn’t have to be a long process, Northampton have demonstrated that this season.

Sadly we have chosen the unqualified novice route which is likely to take at least 5 years before we start challenging again, if it actually works at all.

We have tried the overseas coach with a reputation without success, I think we are looking to Exeter as the model to follow , Baxter wasn't an overnight success, throwing money at it leads to a Saracen's situation, no particular coach is guaranteed success(please tell me of one who was available that we didn't consider if you know one) any coaching team has to work with variables that differ from club to club, working with Bruce Craig being a big factor at Bath. I just don't think it's as simple as Hooper bad, so and so guaranteed better.

gaz59
gaz59
11 January, 2020 12:06
Quote:
Optimist
My joint starting XV has 8 x Quins, 7 x Bath, and i'm going to say we shade the bench, mainly because I haven't heard of most of their players so I haven't got a clue. But it's Marler, Sinckler, Robshaw, Dombrandt and then Care who have the potential to dictate the course of the match.
Marler
Walker
Sinckler
[2nd row - absolutely no idea - assume 1 each]
Robshaw
Dombrandt
Ellis
Care
Burns
Lasike
Willison
Goneva
Brew
Watson

Well on last night's performances I would have just 3 Bath in a joint team with Watson, Hamer-Webb and Willison. Possible case for Walker I guess but that is it

And most disappointing for me was to see Freddie do exactly what he needed to do to not get a contract renewal

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
11 January, 2020 12:16
I thought Green looked better than Care when they were both on the field. Care seems to spend more time appealing to the ref than actually getting the ball out to his players these days? Luckily the ref wasn’t having any of it. Care also has to be up there with Faf for the slowest caterpillar kickers? Seems a long way from the sharp Danny Care of old IMO, was a bit sad to see as he used to be one of my favourite players.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
11 January, 2020 12:57
Thats one decision Eddie got right I think!



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865
11 January, 2020 13:22
Quite an enjoyable match, although the last 10 minutes were so frustrating. I thought we were very good in the first half. Willison and Greene adding something in the backs and Williams and Garvey did well up front. Bayliss was good, as ever. Fox was really impressive, given what he was thrown into.

Our problem was that Burns had a bit of shocker, for me. He looks short of confidence and game time... because he is short of both. He did 3 brilliant things (the banana kick!) but about 10 very strange things too and I didn’t like his game management. It’s perhaps the fault of the boys outside him, but the number of times he is forced/tries to go on his own and gets turned/chips the ball away is maddening. I get it that he’s frustrated, but for an international 10, I thought he gave us little structure and leadership. Hope I’m not being harsh!

The pitch, the pitch... yes it’s the same for both sides but you just see the likes of Watson and Willison struggling to keep their feet in attack, even in the supposedly good parts of grass. It makes our home matches tough spectacles, IMHO.

Still, it didn’t rain. Some young lads stuck their hand up. Marler proved he’s bit of a fool. And the French ref was excellent. So a mixed bag!

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
11 January, 2020 14:09
Quote:
BathMatt53

Kay made exactly the same point that we have been screaming about. In matches teams will get Half-break opportunities. Where Sarries, Saints etc will make the most of the defensive chaos and keep it loose (and capitalise as often as not) Bath often - in fact nearly always - panic, take it to ground, ruck etc which allows the defence to get back into shape.

There is a pattern of us starting games well and finishing badly when the game is open. It does make me think that the coaching for structured play is working well but as in any match the last 20 mins can be a different game.

It is almost as though we need to practice our play when tired and players are out of position. In training, take the players on a 5k run, then go onto the pitch with everyone out of position or even maybe the back rows removed from play and just chuck the ball at someone to start the game. They would learn to adapt to the lack of structure with unexpected possession and play to the situation. Maybe they do this already?

P G Tips
P G Tips
11 January, 2020 14:57
I agree with bathwickboy.

Clearly the result was not ideal and Watson's knock a concern, but did any who criticised our selection really expect an LBP from the game -or that we would match Quins try for try?

There were some encouraging individual performances and eve, in the first half, signs of cohesion. What was galling was how that cohesion collapsed with lost line outs.

As in other disappointing losses this season, no lack of spirit or effort, but sloppy execution. Fixable, but needing some additional specialist advice perhaps - maybe from a former player or two in a consultancy role?

PG

Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
11 January, 2020 15:46
I notice Clermont beat Ulster today.
Should make things interesting, next week.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
11 January, 2020 15:51
Quote:
Mike the Taxi
I notice Clermont beat Ulster today.
Should make things interesting, next week.

In what way? Clermont will stuff Quins, Ulster will play a full strength team at home against another Bath second team.

Glasgow vs Exe is a good watch.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2020 16:01 by BathMatt53.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
11 January, 2020 16:46
Quote:
Long Term
I think we are looking to Exeter as the model to follow.

Agree with you again, we do seem to by trying to copy Exeter. We are certainly as boring to watch as Exeter were a few seasons back.

It did take Baxter time, but he learned his trade in the championship and I think got coaching qualifications. Hooper is winging it in the PL and not bothering with coaching badges.

I might have a little more time for the setup if Hooper admitted he needs an experienced HC to guide him.

At the end of the day my opinion is irrelevant as Hooper is here for the duration, but I believe he will fail and we’ll be back to square one again in 3 years time.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
11 January, 2020 17:08
Rugby doesn’t get much more exciting than that last minute of Glasgow vs Exe! Ref missed loads but thankfully on both sides.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

TomReagan
TomReagan
11 January, 2020 17:09
If Hooper recognises the need for a HC (and I suspect he does) do you think there's anything to be gained by saying so publicly? I can only think of negatives. If your coaching/management structure isn't what you want you can do things to resolve that without highlighting the fact. I agree we are far too conservative in our game plan, but we're not as dull as Exeter, in part because they know exactly how to score inside the opposition 22, whereas we're nothing like as clinical as them. Credit where it's due, yesterday we tried to play entertaining rugby and often did so. I only hope we don't revert to the slow rubbish we have often offered of late.

ballsout
ballsout
11 January, 2020 17:28
We have a squad full of experienced internationals. Talk of “building” or how this is the beginning of the journey is a bit bizarre.

They talk of a high performance environment and buzzwords like that, but the foundations are made of sand.

Same old story for the past ten years. Things are “fixable” and “some good individual performances”. Ever since Bruce Caig took over.

I’ll ask again, when was the last time Bath put in an excellent 80 performance and thrashed a team? Feels like years.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
11 January, 2020 17:39
Kahn F is playing the ball so quickly...no meerkat, no hand flapping, just quick ball*. It’s so frustrating!

(*Not always perfect accuracy mind)

Edit: back to slow ball, that’s the Kahn we know and love.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2020 17:45 by BathMatt53.

gaz59
gaz59
11 January, 2020 18:47
Yes but the Heinz pass and the handling for Zamit's brilliant try was way above anything we've shown this season

And Scot Heron showed Freddie precisely how to get a backline moving forward fast and into space for their second try last night

What disappoints me so much is that we are not even showing glimpses of this kind of play. I can take losing but when have we scored a try that really got you excited

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
11 January, 2020 19:55
The Chudley try vs London Irish.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

OBinFiji
OBinFiji
11 January, 2020 21:37
I thought Jonathan Josephs try v Sale was pretty good. From broken play as well (or maybe thats the issue). But then I liked Obanos score from a week or two ago - so maybe I'm not the best judge!

I do think that GD is either struggling to get a pattern or struggling to get the players who can play to a pattern (or struggling to get any kind of pattern on the rec in the state that its currently in only to have to switch styles to play on a dry/plastic pitch in the next week).

Clearly, a good coach would develop a pattern for the players available rather than the other way round. So, I think that he is going to struggle to remain at the club unless he can develop the squad available.

I reckon that next season Hatley will be promoted to Head Coach and GD will either move on, or get some new players to mould into an attacking force.

OBinFiji

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
11 January, 2020 21:49
I think it will be the latter OBinF. Hooper boosted the forwards this season as there were a few out of contract and will boost the backs next season for the same reason. Hoping for similar success by the scouting crews...



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
11 January, 2020 22:48
Are there really any 9 or 10’s of the quality we want available?

A decent coach should be able to make something of what we have even if they aren’t PL winning quality.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
12 January, 2020 00:52
Quote:
OutsideBath
Are there really any 9 or 10’s of the quality we want available?
A decent coach should be able to make something of what we have even if they aren’t PL winning quality.

OB you are massively over reaching with this coaching argument. You know full well you either are a scrumhalf, or a flyhalf or you are not!



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
12 January, 2020 08:27
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
OutsideBath
Are there really any 9 or 10’s of the quality we want available?
A decent coach should be able to make something of what we have even if they aren’t PL winning quality.

OB you are massively over reaching with this coaching argument. You know full well you either are a scrumhalf, or a flyhalf or you are not!

You’ve lost me with that. Chudley/Cook are scrumhalf’s, FB/RP are flyhalf’s and I’m saying they are good enough to deliver more with better coaching strategies.

gaz59
gaz59
12 January, 2020 09:07
Quote:
BathMatt53
The Chudley try vs London Irish.

Agree it was pretty good but nowhere near the level of skill and pace in either of those quins or glaws trys

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
12 January, 2020 10:48
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
OutsideBath
Are there really any 9 or 10’s of the quality we want available?
A decent coach should be able to make something of what we have even if they aren’t PL winning quality.

OB you are massively over reaching with this coaching argument. You know full well you either are a scrumhalf, or a flyhalf or you are not!

You’ve lost me with that. Chudley/Cook are scrumhalf’s, FB/RP are flyhalf’s and I’m saying they are good enough to deliver more with better coaching strategies.

Why would you think that, if Priestland were 22-24 coaching might influence his style perhaps the ratio of kick to pass but 10's are mostly instinctive.

Take Cook as another example, did he change under Ford, how could coaching improve his game?

Coaching is more applicable to getting players working together as a team rather than than improving individuals particularly away from formative years. We just have to accept that Priestland, Burns, Cook and Chudley are as good as they are going to be. With the exception of Chudley that is, I'm sorry to say, not good enough for future success.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
12 January, 2020 10:59
I agree with you the 9/10’s we have in the squad aren’t good enough to challenge for top 4, but they are good enough to do something in attack with the right coaching. At present our attack is embarrassingly poor.

However let’s just agree to disagree on this point. You are happy with the coaching setup and I’m not and I doubt much will change our views either way.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
12 January, 2020 13:12
I have to say I agree with OB on this one, not the overall criticism of management but the idea that anyone can improve at any time.

There are a lot of moving parts as we know and that is what makes it such a fascinating sport for me.

I do think we are improving. Apologies for cliched rugby but it starts up front and with results comes confidence followed by tempo followed by expectations for runners that their timing will be matched by a pass.

At present I think we have the foundations for good possession but the tempo is a bit slow and defences are closing gaps in time.

It feels like a jigsaw with some pieces missing, good in some parts but overall not that effective. I think our squad is good enough and can improve once the different facets of the game are better linked.

I don't care how old a 9 and 10 are, they are entirely capable of learning to pass like a Stringer (without pausing) or stand as flat as a Butch James to suck in defenders.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
12 January, 2020 16:34
Quote:
OutsideBath
I agree with you the 9/10’s we have in the squad aren’t good enough to challenge for top 4, but they are good enough to do something in attack with the right coaching. At present our attack is embarrassingly poor.
However let’s just agree to disagree on this point. You are happy with the coaching setup and I’m not and I doubt much will change our views either way.

Hold on there cowboy, I didn't say I'm happy with the coaching set up!

We need a defence coach, a head coach and the attack needs a shake up. HOWEVER lets get the personnel right first.

All the coaching in the world won't stop Freddies wobbles or make RP into a side stepping 10, they are locked into that.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Cu Chulainn
Cu Chulainn
12 January, 2020 18:19
[s3.visitbelfast.com]

If you are coming to Belfast next week don't forget to go to the Crown in Great Victoria Street

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
12 January, 2020 18:30
Great pub! I had a Guinness there in 1994 and it still lives in the memory...in fact I had more than 1 to be honest.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

ballsout
ballsout
12 January, 2020 22:06
Quote:
OBinFiji
I
I do think that GD is either struggling to get a pattern or struggling to get the players who can play to a pattern (or struggling to get any kind of pattern on the rec in the state that its currently in only to have to switch styles to play on a dry/plastic pitch in the next week).

Or, in actual fact, the "process" and "systems-based" strategy drawn up by Hooper and Rock they spend so much time talking about have marginalised him to the point where he has no impact.

No foundation to our game/club.

ballsout
ballsout
12 January, 2020 22:09
Quote:
shipwrecked
Coaching is more applicable to getting players working together as a team rather than than improving individuals particularly away from formative years.

Then our coaching set-up has failed miserably for the past five years, because playing with cohesion and as a team rather than a collection of individuals is pretty much the last thing we've offered in all that time.

But I really hope you don't actually believe what you're saying. How can you say that coaches can't improve players away from their formative years. Come on. It's literally in the name, they're there to coach the players and improve them, years after year, whether they're 18 or 30.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
12 January, 2020 22:22
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
shipwrecked
Coaching is more applicable to getting players working together as a team rather than than improving individuals particularly away from formative years.

Then our coaching set-up has failed miserably for the past five years, because playing with cohesion and as a team rather than a collection of individuals is pretty much the last thing we've offered in all that time.

But I really hope you don't actually believe what you're saying. How can you say that coaches can't improve players away from their formative years. Come on. It's literally in the name, they're there to coach the players and improve them, years after year, whether they're 18 or 30.

You need to read it in context BO, the point was coaching can improve scrum halves and fly halves, specifically, RP, FB, WC and CC.

With the exception of WC I cant see coaching changing these guys, those positions are instinctive, a sports psychologist perhaps. Sorry their boat has sailed, they've plateaued.
Now if you mean props or hooker or back row that's a different matter.



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn
12 January, 2020 22:33
Surely the main point of Coaching is to firstly analyse the opposition, and secondly to create a gameplan to counter, or to just go out and win a damn game one of these days. If things are going ok at halftime, don't just go and say - keep going, guys you are doing fine! Or whatever anodyne rubbish is being doled out. The players need to have confidence that what they are practising all week with the drills will work on the day.
Otherwise when things start to go pearshaped……………………………………………………………….
Yours in utter desperation having watched firstly Exeter yesterday and then Saints today.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
12 January, 2020 22:45
There are all types of coaches who have all sorts of roles surely? The attack coach looks at plays, shapes and patterns in a wider sense whilst a kicking coach may work with one person on one skill? There are also then the analysts who feed back to the coaches.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

warrenball
warrenball
13 January, 2020 07:58
Surely the main job of the coach is to set the style of play and practise this so that all players in the squad are on the same wavelength, it should be a given that the players in the 1st 15 can run, pass, catch, kick and are fit.

It is no coincidence that the two best teams in this regard are Exeter and Saracens and it is why they can rotate their squads or lose players to injury without seeming to lose any momentum. Just look at our fly halfs they play completely different styles of rugby.

Bath, for a long time have seemed to rely on the individual brilliance of certain players, it is why our team is less that the sum of the individuals and why we appear so rudderless at times and so adversely affected when top players get injured.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
13 January, 2020 08:02
To be fair Warrenball that could just apply to the backs this season, the forwards have largely operated as a pretty effective unit IMO.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn
13 January, 2020 10:17
BathMatt - your last comment sums up the Bath style Coaching By Committee succinctly!

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
13 January, 2020 11:11
It seems to be the cohesion & fluency of the backs that is the problem. That rests at the door of Jurgen Dempsey.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
13 January, 2020 11:55
Quote:
Bath Hammer
It seems to be the cohesion & fluency of the backs that is the problem. That rests at the door of Jurgen Dempsey.

...so that the problem all along - I though we had signed the guy from Leinster but got his German cousin instead!! (Reminds me of Ali Dia, best football signing ever).



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
13 January, 2020 16:43
Girvan - not a name that immediately comes to mind (Sm77)
(It would be nice if there were a better selection of emojis to select from)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 13/01/2020 16:47 by Bath Hammer.

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