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Ring fencing
Discussion started by warrenball (IP Logged), 21 January, 2020 22:38
warrenball
warrenball
21 January, 2020 22:38
The game I always looked forward to most in the season was the home game against Tigers, obviously in the early years they were our main competitor and beating them never came easily, but somehow this year it has lost a bit of its gloss. It has even been overlooked by BT Sport.

The 6N timing does not help, I will be doing my 150 mile round trip + a couple of season tickets + other costs and only seeing two teams stripped of their best players. It is further devalued by the whole Saracens scandal and the fall out this will have in a game I have played and watched for nearly 60 years.

But most of all the Saracens situation has had one ironic blessing, it has really brought home what ring fencing the Premiership will mean. It means now I will make that round trip and like a lot of supporters of other teams around the country I know the result of the game has lost something without the spectre of relegation.

As the season moves on the number of effective dead rubbers increase, everybody just looks up to the top of the table.

Club owners and the money men do not like relegation , but ask Bruce Craig as a former rugby playing supporter - if he were honest I am sure he would agree that often games at the bottom can be equally absorbing as those at the top.

Next year the Championship may be equally affected by the loss of the chance of promotion.

Bath still have a chance of making the top four but Tigers look unlikely, so what do they have to play for except pride? It may give Tigers the chance to relax and get their game together ready for Borthwick in the summer, it takes the pressure off some of their internationals who can miss a few more club games to be fit for the Lions, but is this the way we really want our game to go?

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
22 January, 2020 06:50
I think that it is important to remember that nobody has suggested that they would ringfence to add excitement. It was for a couple of years to help teams get their finances in order and also weaker teams to become more competitive / established in the prem without then going bust. With the two teams that have recently come up being heavily financed the issue is less critical I would have thought - we donít have another London Welsh. For that reason I donít think itís really necessary unless they are expanding the league and letting in an Ealing or whatever.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

DanWiley
DanWiley
22 January, 2020 07:50
"I think that it is important to remember that nobody has suggested that they would ringfence to add excitement."

I think that's a given, but actually, people have suggested that without the risk of relegation English clubs will start throwing the ball around and engage in expansive play because they've nothing to play for.

I think it's probably nonsense on two levels: first, I don't think it will happen, we'll continue to grind out rugby games. Secondly, it's not all about the style of play, competition is huge to the interest in watching rugby. As a neutral you don't prioritise watching the dead rubber at the bottom of a European cup pool do you? Even when the match up is better than most prem games.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
22 January, 2020 08:12
Agreed, I think that the style of rugby will stay the same without some of the excitement, but the hope has to be that there would be fewer clubs flogging their finances in order to stay in the league. Could also mean that a few more youngsters are played as well, which could be good for England, and would top players be managed a bit better like the Pro 14?

Totally on board with the fact that a lot of people wonít be that interested toward the end of the season, but then I still watch my local side (Typically mid table) at that point just because I support them and like going to watch - Iím sure the Rec wouldnít be deserted.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

ade1865
Ade1865
22 January, 2020 08:48
Before the league we had the merit table, every game was a 'friendly' and was still really intense. Now we have a league and the games that I have watched over recent years are rarely intense or enjoyable whatever the result. It may be me, or it may be the way the game has 'progressed' (or it may be the fog of my memory) but I dont think the spectre of relegation has actually had much of an effect on how tense/enjoyable a game was, apart from very rare exceptions (Elvis!).

however in my heart I assume that ring fencing will bring in boring rugby. Until it happens I guess we wont know. But even then there will be rule changes etc that will fog the issue.

tigerburnie
tigerburnie
22 January, 2020 09:34
I cannot think of any reason why ring fencing would be good for rugby as a sport or as a spectacle for the watching public, the only winners would be money men wanting to protect their "investment". Sport should not be about making money, it should rise above that. As to this weekends game, old rivalries have not yet been forgotten, I expect the usual uncompromising game as usual between to fine clubs.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
22 January, 2020 11:37
From a selfish point of view a 5 year ring fenced PL would work for me. Will give Bath time to get project Hooper out of the system with no fear of relegation.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
22 January, 2020 11:46
Quote:
OutsideBath
From a selfish point of view a 5 year ring fenced PL would work for me. Will give Bath time to get project Hooper out of the system with no fear of relegation.

Why a time limit, what does that achieve?

Additionally if say a club broke the salary cap would ring fencing mean the couldn't be automatically relegated?



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

cb2
cb2
22 January, 2020 11:50
There is the argument that all the short term elements and the need to avoid relegation inhibits growth in the long term. You sign up a 30 year old SA journeyman centre instead of investing in your own youth players. I would like to see the current Bath playing with Hastings and Devoto in the backline but we started the season with Priestland and Roberts. I know that they didn't leave directly because of older players or when we were struggling but there is always the feeling that clubs go for experience, when the pressure is on.

It will be interesting to see what Bath do with TDG for the rest of the season. I would like to see him get more time on the pitch for the rest of the season and look at making him a starter from next season on. The same goes for any young 9 who shows promise.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
22 January, 2020 11:58
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
OutsideBath
From a selfish point of view a 5 year ring fenced PL would work for me. Will give Bath time to get project Hooper out of the system with no fear of relegation.

Why a time limit, what does that achieve?

Additionally if say a club broke the salary cap would ring fencing mean the couldn't be automatically relegated?

No particular reason for 5 years other than we should be a year or so into our next coaching reset after that.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
22 January, 2020 12:11
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
OutsideBath
From a selfish point of view a 5 year ring fenced PL would work for me. Will give Bath time to get project Hooper out of the system with no fear of relegation.

Why a time limit, what does that achieve?

Additionally if say a club broke the salary cap would ring fencing mean the couldn't be automatically relegated?

No particular reason for 5 years other than we should be a year or so into our next coaching reset after that.

So why bother at all?



https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

DanWiley
DanWiley
22 January, 2020 12:37
"There is the argument that all the short term elements and the need to avoid relegation inhibits growth in the long term."

This always seems like an excuse for poor management to me. Good coaches blend youth and experience in a team with or without relegation. A poor coach will still stick with his pensioner even if the threat is removed.

I'd definitely forget about short term ring fencing. Once its here its not going anywhere. That makes "Until it happens I guess we wont know." pretty dangerous as once it has been shown to be bad (seems likely to me) we're stuck with it.

warrenball
warrenball
22 January, 2020 21:13
I think my main point Dan was that ring fencing won't be to the benefit of the rugby supporters and the Saracens debacle has given us the opportunity to effectively see ring fencing in action this season. I am hoping it will lead to club supporters who do not like it and want the excitement that comes with relegation raising their voices against it before the money men push it through because I agree with you once it is enforced it will never go away.

DanWiley
DanWiley
22 January, 2020 21:39
I agree. Though, sadly, I think that many supporters will see the "isn't it great, my team will be top flight for ever." and will, perhaps with some affected frowns, usher it in quite happily.

I don't think it's unlikely that ringfencing will be the first step in a move towards a very different rugby scene. I can see transient franchises as a subsequent step and I'm unease about that given bath's lack of a decent stadium, poor returns and a far reaching brand value way in excess of its localised value.

recman
recman
22 January, 2020 22:04
Quote:
warrenball
It has even been overlooked by BT Sport.

That's because it's become enshrined in law that BT have to show every Gloucester game live this season.

Or so it seems.


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