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Why don't forwards kick for goal?
Discussion started by joethefanatic (IP Logged), 18 May, 2020 08:48
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
18 May, 2020 08:48
They are taller, have longer levers and so presumably should be able to kick the ball further off the tee.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

dannyf2
dannyf2
18 May, 2020 08:49
Nobody did
And Nobody's perfect

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
18 May, 2020 08:56
Quote:
dannyf2
Nobody did
And Nobody's perfect

And it seemed to be a thing in Scottish rugby in the 70s but it seems to me to be one of those 1%s that no one is currently trying. Or maybe they are and it doesn't work but it might be interesting to see. Eliot Daly regularly kicks goals from 55m. Imagine if you could get another 5 or 10m on that!



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

John Tee
John Tee
18 May, 2020 09:02
Anyone who has played the game knows skills and forwards are not always the thing they get picked for.

But yes, you'd hope it wouldn't be such an alien concept at top level.
I can think of two SH forwards who were useful and one of them took place kicks, iirc

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
18 May, 2020 09:02
Itís not uncommon at all to see forwards kicking at age grade, presumably partly for this reason.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy
18 May, 2020 09:18
I believe it is down to a lack of footballing skills inherent in the make up of most forwards.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
18 May, 2020 09:24
A bit like a long iron in golf perhaps the longer legs are less accurate?

BBWBaaBaa
BBWBaaBaa
18 May, 2020 09:37
Peter Brown - Scotland
Alan Martin - Wales
John Eales - Australia

Peter Wheeler - Tigers (for a period)

Best I can remember smiling smiley

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
18 May, 2020 09:39
Quote:
BBWBaaBaa
Peter Brown - Scotland
Alan Martin - Wales
John Eales - Australia

Peter Wheeler - Tigers (for a period)

Best I can remember smiling smiley

John Taylor - Wales



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Awp24975
Awp24975
18 May, 2020 09:42
Probably due to practice time..... when training splits forwards go off and do scrum and line out practice and at the end of that they are knackered...... Backs go off and do kicking and whatever else they do.

DanWiley
DanWiley
18 May, 2020 09:58
Even in the backs, it doesn't tend to be the taller, better-built players that do the kicking. I'm sure people could talk about fast and slow twitch muscles or the current vogue, but it just seems that being large, powerful doesn't buy you much in kicking, look at George Ford.

I suspect, fundamentally, successful kicking comes down to mentality more than muscle, and there is only so much momentum you can kick into a ball. When you're younger you haven't reached that level, hence why forwards do have an advantage, by the time you're an adult the power isn't the problem.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
18 May, 2020 10:32
Greg Laidlaw and lickle Duncan Weir are two of the most accurate in the business.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
18 May, 2020 10:41
You see it in junior rugby - the strongest kid kicks for a while until eventually that kid with the technique can't be equalled (whatever his size). Like a good golf swing.

I suspect the kind of abilities that lead to that kind of mechanistic 'perfection' probably also lend themselves to playing in the backs. You don't need that kind of coordination to win the quick battles of forward-dom.

Also, at that level, kicking is a huge part of the game and all backs will learn to be competent at it. Inevitable that some of that focus benefits place kicking.



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

OldMarovian
OldMarovian
18 May, 2020 10:54
Jordan Crane kicked a pretty important one for Tigers to win a semi-final game.

Mako regularly slots them from the sidelines in training.

I suspect along with the good answers above the higher physicality of forwards roles versus most likely goal-kickers (perhaps not Farrell) mean that half the time they'd be kicking would be after they'd just had a leg-sapping scrum or been pushing a maul??

Banachek
Banachek
18 May, 2020 10:58
My youngest lad who is a front row forward, would often take Kick off and kick to touch basically up till he went to UNI (but not kicks at goal) for his local club and school, mainly because he had very good distance compared to the backs. For a few seasons he also played League at a good level (I did try to discourage him !) and was their go to kicker .
However there were a couple of coaches who saw the forwards job as very rigid and he got told no more kicking even the odd grubber at training was frowned on. So he stopped practicing it.

MESSAGES->author
hemington
18 May, 2020 11:03
Because as everyone knows Coaches know best!!(Sm100)

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
18 May, 2020 11:25
Quote:
Banachek
For a few seasons he also played League at a good level (I did try to discourage him !) and was their go to kicker.

Speaking of league, Andy Farrell was a Loose forward or Second-row and he wasn't too shabby in his day.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Woodster
Woodster
18 May, 2020 21:06
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
Banachek
For a few seasons he also played League at a good level (I did try to discourage him !) and was their go to kicker.

Speaking of league, Andy Farrell was a Loose forward or Second-row and he wasn't too shabby in his day.
I've always thought Union kickers are so much better than League kickers, like loads better. No evidence to back this up mind.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
18 May, 2020 21:16
Quote:
DanWiley
...there is only so much momentum you can kick into a ball. When you're younger you haven't reached that level, hence why forwards do have an advantage, by the time you're an adult the power isn't the problem.

Not sure I agree with this. There is effectively no limit to how much momentum you can impart to the ball (up to the point when the ball bursts on impact) but there certainly is to how far it will fly once you 've kicked it (as air resistance increases with the square of speed - or something like that). The fact that 100m goals are not kicked suggests that power is a limiting factor.

But I do agree that it would spoil the game.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

DanWiley
DanWiley
18 May, 2020 21:57
Cr increases as the velocity of impact does so I'm not sure you're right there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/05/2020 21:57 by DanWiley.

warrenball
warrenball
19 May, 2020 21:00
Sorry to show my age but Mal Reilly was a league forward in the 70's and one of the most skilful players I have ever seen in either code. Can't remember if he kicker for goal, but if he didn't he could have as his kicking from hand was so skilful in an era when forwards were not supposed to be remotely creative. I saw him most playing in Australia and the fact that he was feared by them says it all.

gaz59
gaz59
22 May, 2020 13:13
My subbutteo goal kicker was a league player and he could belt it miles. One end of the lounge t'other

Martlet75
Martlet75
22 May, 2020 14:52
Because they are too knackered after training to spend another hour doing kicking practice?


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