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Now for the Covid Cash Crunch for Elite Rugby
Discussion started by Bod (IP Logged), 20 May, 2020 16:25
K-Nut
Bod
20 May, 2020 16:25
Players at some GP teams think their club will be bust by Christmas

I fear there'll be some significant restructuring of all GP clubs across the next 4/6 weeks before any attempted conclusion of 19/20 - with some facing absolutely devastating remedial action to stay afloat. Will these clubs most under financial threat be allowed to fold? I guess the precedent exists with the demise of Richmond and London Scottish.

One club already taking steps to boost cash flow :-

Worcester reduce ST prices to 2013/14 levels

"Worcester have decided to test the market for next term by reducing prices to 2013/14 levels, a price that will remain the same for 2021/22 for any supporters who purchase tickets now. "


Just out of interest - what % difference would there be for a Bath ST from 2013/14 to that of 2019/20? I would appreciate any observations on that point.

(Sm72)

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
20 May, 2020 16:44
started at £343 for adults.

[www.bathrugby.com]

not entirely sure what this compared with...maybe £399 for the blue seats?

[www.bathrugby.com]



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
20 May, 2020 16:46
This is interesting.

'We’ve got this extraordinary scenario where the top players are earning stratospheric money and the squeezed middle are getting contract renewals at 20-30% below what they’re currently on.'

I wonder if that's why Bath are so late playing their hand?



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
20 May, 2020 16:48
Perhaps the way forward is for the TV coverage to be restructured so that televised games cost more to view. That way supporters cash that would otherwise be spent on a ST goes to TV instead who then pass on the extra charge, or part of it, to the clubs.

K-Nut
Bod
21 May, 2020 08:09
Premier clubs fail to agree return to trainning protocols..........

You'd have thought, if the requirement for revenue generation is so acute, that the team managers might think a little outside of the box and establish some lines of communication with similar sporting entities?
What's to stop the Manager at Farleigh picking up the phone and establishing a line of communication with his counterpart at a Bundesliga club to share best practice principles on return to training at least as point of reference?

Rugby specific advice could be obtained from NZ Super Franchises who kick-off on 13th June?

It's a farce.

(Sm72)

K-Nut
Bod
21 May, 2020 08:35
Salary reductions to become permanent


"Just to give you some idea, five years ago about five players in the Premiership were earning a salary of £300,000 or more. In the five years since then, it’s somewhere around about 100 players are earning that sort of level............. “Multiple sources indicated on Tuesday night that Wasps have informed staff and players that the cuts will become permanent, while players at Gloucester and other clubs have already been warned that reductions are likely to extend for the duration of current contracts.”


Will Bruce follow suit ?


(Sm72)

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
21 May, 2020 08:52
‘Squads are expected to resume training this week against a backdrop of unrest. The pay cuts are regarded as a breach of contract, which would allow players to move on whenever they wish. With the vast majority of the Premiership united in a pledge not to poach from each other, there are already rumours about defections to Japan, where there is financial stability and high wages.’

I think that Exeter didn’t even cut wages? It seems that the Premiership clubs / model is on the verge of collapse if this report is true.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
21 May, 2020 09:28
Permanent salary cuts would be breach of contract wouldn't it?



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

TomReagan
TomReagan
21 May, 2020 09:41
I think a lot of this, whilst unconfirmed, seems pretty inevitable. Whilst many fans need the optimism generated by a marquee signing or two as a positive distraction I think it helps explain why Bath are keeping their cards close to thir chest. The game does face upheaval, so perhaps not the time to be committing cash when you don't know what the future holds, and most experts say an Autumn/Winter spike is inevitable, which might have an impact should rugby be up and running by then.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
21 May, 2020 10:35
So if you have offered a player a new contract, or a new player a contract for the first time (such as Spencer), does this mean that you are now saying that they will only get 75% of the contract value? I would assume that you would have to or the other players would revolt...

sounds very messy.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
21 May, 2020 10:40
Be interesting to see if there are any players unhappy enough to forego their international career for the cash in Japan.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
21 May, 2020 10:46
Quote:
OutsideBath
Be interesting to see if there are any players unhappy enough to forego their international career for the cash in Japan.

Just after a world cup I'm not sure it would be a career they are forgoing, just a 'sabbatical'. If the international matches are shelved because of a lack of cash / crowds I would assume that the England guys wouldn't be getting their £23k match fee anyway? A year in Japan doesn't seem like a terrible idea.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
21 May, 2020 11:06
Trying to agree a contract from either side, based on where we are today sounds crazy.

SimonG19
SimonG19
21 May, 2020 11:43
Quote:
Bod
Players at some GP teams think their club will be bust by Christmas
I fear there'll be some significant restructuring of all GP clubs across the next 4/6 weeks before any attempted conclusion of 19/20 - with some facing absolutely devastating remedial action to stay afloat. Will these clubs most under financial threat be allowed to fold? I guess the precedent exists with the demise of Richmond and London Scottish.

One club already taking steps to boost cash flow :-

Worcester reduce ST prices to 2013/14 levels

"Worcester have decided to test the market for next term by reducing prices to 2013/14 levels, a price that will remain the same for 2021/22 for any supporters who purchase tickets now. "


Just out of interest - what % difference would there be for a Bath ST from 2013/14 to that of 2019/20? I would appreciate any observations on that point.

(Sm72)

To be fair to Richmond and London Scottish they weren't so much allowed to fold as forced to merge with London Irish (into a new club called London Irish!) when the Premiership wanted to reduce the number of clubs in the competition.

Ironically of all clubs scheduled to be in the top two tiers next season Richmond are probably in the strongest position being a part-time outfit who only pay a basic standard appearance fee to their players.

OldMarovian
OldMarovian
21 May, 2020 12:35
Quote:
BathMatt53
Just after a world cup I'm not sure it would be a career they are forgoing, just a 'sabbatical'. If the international matches are shelved because of a lack of cash / crowds I would assume that the England guys wouldn't be getting their £23k match fee anyway? A year in Japan doesn't seem like a terrible idea.

Agree although it's worth noting that the RFU has suggested that England match fees will be reduced. Even so the Internationals will be in a much better position and as mentioned above it will be the middle that really gets squeezed. The sort of great clubman who is available most of the season and is off the International radar.

I also think it is quite a gamble re International selection. For me Maro is the single player in the whole England squad who I'd say could be confident of leaving for a season and coming straight back in. Him aside I'd say that even the best of the rest have back-ups more than capable of both stepping up and making their recall far from a given. So a big risk. Also I think quite a few of those Internationals have an eye on the upcoming Lions tour if it goes ahead so they may want to stay on the radar (even if that's in France) rather than go for the money in Japan.

Marchant is an interesting case in that regard. pre-covid his call to play in Super rugby for a season seemed very bold to me with him being on the fringes of England selection. Personally I think his being away meant he missed out on being part of the RWC squad but equally he may come back from the SH a better player? Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.

Is there anyone in the Bath squad you feel should because of the money on offer or a chance at having a sort of paid sabbatical should take a season playing in Japan or elsewhere?

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
21 May, 2020 13:21
Quote:
OldMarovian
Quote:
BathMatt53
Just after a world cup I'm not sure it would be a career they are forgoing, just a 'sabbatical'. If the international matches are shelved because of a lack of cash / crowds I would assume that the England guys wouldn't be getting their £23k match fee anyway? A year in Japan doesn't seem like a terrible idea.

Agree although it's worth noting that the RFU has suggested that England match fees will be reduced. Even so the Internationals will be in a much better position and as mentioned above it will be the middle that really gets squeezed.

Is there anyone in the Bath squad you feel should because of the money on offer or a chance at having a sort of paid sabbatical should take a season playing in Japan or elsewhere?

I think that Ant Watson is good enough that he could probably do what he wants and he would be offered a role and decent salary.

Other possibilities - Someone like Joe C wouldn’t have too much trouble getting a contract after a period away I would guess but it all just depends on him staying fit. Eddie seems to like Underhill. That’s about it for Bath players I would imagine?



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

K-Nut
Bod
21 May, 2020 13:22
How many might the Japanese wish to accommodate? They're blooding their own looking towards 2023 I'd expect.
(Sm72)

DanWiley
DanWiley
21 May, 2020 13:50
I think they'd do it at their own risk. International selection can be fickle. Some youngster comes in while you're away and you might end up having to fight to get back in with neither age nor experience on your side.

OldMarovian
OldMarovian
21 May, 2020 14:25
Quote:
BathMatt53
I think that Ant Watson is good enough that he could probably do what he wants and he would be offered a role and decent salary.

Other possibilities - Someone like Joe C wouldn’t have too much trouble getting a contract after a period away I would guess but it all just depends on him staying fit. Eddie seems to like Underhill. That’s about it for Bath players I would imagine?

I did think of all three players you mentioned. France might be an option but I think that Watson in particular, as a past starter, must surely have an eye on the Lions tour so probably wants to keep himself visible. For me he is an outstanding talent but I think it would be a huge gamble to be out of Jones plans for a season. The competition on the wing is pretty tough. May and Nowell fit might already rule him out of starting and if his absence opens up an opportunity for Coka or Thorley I could see it being tricky for him. Likewise Underhill with guys like Earl, Simmonds, Willis, etc none of whom offer the same as him but all of whom could easily stake a claim for the start in his absence.

Coka is the interesting one for me as he's still very young but he is and will become a beast IMO. I think he could afford to take a season out and even with his relative quality as an unknown earn very good money in Japan just because of his obvious talent. I did wonder about Mercer too?

Dan Wiley makes a good point about the risk you run though. So I think you'd want to be sure it was a really massive payday.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
21 May, 2020 14:27
There is also the Eddie factor, if you feel your face doesn't fit for whatever reason then less to lose if you have a gut feel you won't get into the team however well you play.

K-Nut
Bod
22 May, 2020 16:21
SCW says - Forget 6Ns and AIs - get the Club game going again first

""A full-contact sport like rugby is going to be the last cab off the rank with regards to playing again as we are seeing with the Premiership clubs' problems just resuming training. I'm struggling to get my head around how and when we will be allowed to play again. It's surely going to need a massive change of emphasis from the Government in what is and isn't allowed.
"I think that we should put a lid on the 2020 Six Nations. There is just no way games are going to be staged any time soon. Equally, it is pointless trying to rearrange lost summer tours. They have gone.
"If there is any meaningful rugby in October it has to be club rugby — Premiership, PRO14, Top14 — because there is a real danger of clubs going out of business if they don't get some revenue streams going very soon."


I think he's bang on the money - its pointless trying to complete this 6Ns. The clubs are the structures that need resuscitation and stabilisation first.

(Sm72)

MESSAGES->author
Rawce
22 May, 2020 21:04
Update from the club via email with options on what ST holders want to do with their remaining ST credit IN THE EVENT we can’t complete the season (plan is to carry on over the summer):
* Credit for the next season (I’m hoping this remains valid for 10 years);
* Gift the money to the club;
* Arrange for ballsout to join in on team bonding sessions (when social distancing formally ends);
* Donate to the BR Foundation;
* Buy Sir Bruce and Lord Dyson a gold helipad on top of the sports centre roof;
* Get a refund;
* Build a giant Worthy statue that blocks out all light overlooking Johnstone Street.

Also, staff on furlough. I’m assuming this must be the Contract Signing department.

K-Nut
Bod
25 May, 2020 16:14
CVC to shave £200 million off 6Ns deal?

"It’s understood CVC Capital Partners – the full name of the investment company – is offering around £300m for a minority stake in Europe’s rugby crown jewel.

When a deal was first mooted more than a year ago the sum was put in the region of £500m in return for around a 15 per cent share-holding."

Every cloud has a silver lining for someone eh?

(Sm72)

Muzza
Muzza
25 May, 2020 23:11
Quote:
OutsideBath Be interesting to see if there are any players unhappy enough to forego their international career for the cash in Japan.

Japan Top League is 14 teams with this rule "three foreign players per team are allowed on the field at one time" Often some of these foreign players have limited game time.

The other thing to consider is the way these Japanese rugby contracts are negotiated. A few of the Kiwi guys I know that have gone to Japan have commented that the discussion often are months/years in advance, & as they owned by Japanese corporations they did a meet/greet with senior executives before a contact was signed.

K-Nut
Bod
26 May, 2020 09:00
French Rugby finances in question

"Stade Francais, who had the competition’s biggest budget, €40-million last term, have kept their business to a minimum for the coming campaign having signed Argentina pair Nicolas Sanchez and Pablo Matera last year.

“Transfers, recruitment is pretty much at a stop, when normally it’s all finished by now,” the Paris-based club’s general manager Thomas Lombard told AFP earlier this month.

“We’re not in an absolute emergency, but we need clarity on things.”

Even if they slash their budget by 75% they're still well ahead of Prem cap!

Mind you, Stade at bottom of the league when season called off!!

I'm sure ballsout's Parisian cousin ( Monsieur" Balon-Sorti" )has offered plenty of advice and input across the season on their fan site." Sacre bleu!" " Zut alors!"

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51G-xBsKpuL._AC_SY400_.jpg

K-Nut
Bod
27 May, 2020 08:55
The Coronavirus Cup

"Former Rugby Football Union chief Francis Baron believes a ‘Coronavirus Cup of World Rugby’ next year could significantly ease the financial hardship facing the global game because of the pandemic.
Baron has drawn up an independent financial rescue plan and at its heart is a 16-team invitational tournament to be held in the UK and Ireland next June and July, using the 2015 World Cup hosted by England as a template.

Staging the competition for 31 matches over six weeks would mean postponing the British and Irish Lions tour of South Africa, scheduled for next July, but Baron thinks it is a necessary sacrifice which would benefit all unions."


D'you reckon it could work?

(Sm72)

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
27 May, 2020 09:10
Quote:
Bod
The Coronavirus Cup
"Former Rugby Football Union chief Francis Baron believes a ‘Coronavirus Cup of World Rugby’ next year could significantly ease the financial hardship facing the global game because of the pandemic.
Baron has drawn up an independent financial rescue plan and at its heart is a 16-team invitational tournament to be held in the UK and Ireland next June and July, using the 2015 World Cup hosted by England as a template.

Staging the competition for 31 matches over six weeks would mean postponing the British and Irish Lions tour of South Africa, scheduled for next July, but Baron thinks it is a necessary sacrifice which would benefit all unions."


D'you reckon it could work?

(Sm72)

The issue will be that the players will have been flogged to death by then surely - if after the break they are to finish this year, then have a full next domestic season, then a multi-team world cup? Based on the length of time the national squad needed to prepare this would surely eat into the premiership finals etc?

Squeezing a pint into a 1/2 pint pot just about sums it up for me.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/05/2020 09:11 by BathMatt53.

P G Tips
P G Tips
27 May, 2020 09:13
Quote:
Bod
[
I'm sure ballsout's Parisian cousin ( Monsieur" Balon-Sorti" )has offered plenty of advice and input across the season on their fan site." Sacre bleu!" " Zut alors!"

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51G-xBsKpuL._AC_SY400_.jpg

Wot? you mean their site is not "Allez, mes Amours!"?

PG

K-Nut
Bod
28 May, 2020 22:26
IPL/Big Bash style contracts coming to Rugby - Carl Fearns

"Fearns, who recently suffered the upheaval of seeing potential moves from Lyon back to England collapse before eventually securing a two-year deal at ProD2 Rouen, told The Rugby Paper: “I can definitely see boys going freelance and playing in different competitions.

“At the moment the markets are really bad and there have been loads of players coming on the market late. Clubs are cutting back and there aren’t enough jobs available, so things are going to change drastically in future.”

Shorter, quick-fire competitions in different countries have proved hugely popular in cricket, with India’s IPL and Australia’s Big Bash financially equipped to offer top salaries.

Fearns adds: “Rugby’s an open book at the moment – nobody really knows what’s going to happen. Japan is getting stronger and there’s talk of this new competition in America, so players could soon benefit from going freelance and contracts being more flexible.

“They’ve done it in cricket, so why not rugby?”

I think he's closer to the truth than many might consider.

(Sm72)

K-Nut
Bod
04 June, 2020 08:58
Redundancy consultations begin at Tigers

Unfortunately I suppose similar conversations are being initiated from Farleigh .

(Sm72)

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
04 June, 2020 10:01
Quote:
Bod

Shorter, quick-fire competitions in different countries have proved hugely popular in cricket, with India’s IPL and Australia’s Big Bash financially equipped to offer top salaries.

Fearns adds: “Rugby’s an open book at the moment – nobody really knows what’s going to happen. Japan is getting stronger and there’s talk of this new competition in America, so players could soon benefit from going freelance and contracts being more flexible.

“They’ve done it in cricket, so why not rugby?”

I think he's closer to the truth than many might consider.

(Sm72)

I suppose the question is, what has the greater appeal, the strong tradition of say, a Bath v Gloucs game or a manufactured West Country Worzels v East Midlands Greenshirts with a few fireworks thrown in?

I suggest the answer depends on your age range.


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