Latest news:

The COML Message Board

The place for discussion, debate and nonsense about Bath Rugby.

Join our new Facebook Group today!

New visitors please read the house rules before posting

Test your prognostications at our Prediction League


Goto Page: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2
So... George Ford
Discussion started by joethefanatic (IP Logged), 30 June, 2020 00:06
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
30 June, 2020 00:06
The reports coming out of the Tigs at the moment suggest Ford may become available in the not too distant.

Would we take him back? We need a top class fly half. He is undeniably a fabulously gifted and very ambitious 10 who would provide that on-field direction we so desperately need. But he's also a divisive character who's shown he's quite prepared to throw other players, or even whole clubs, under the bus if it advances his career. Would we be prepared to risk building our team around him for the next 3 years? Would he insist on bringing his Dad?

I'd say yes to my original question. I dislike George Ford but he's what we need. I was at that 2015 semi-final and I've never been so emotional watching Bath play before or since. Once in 20 years isn't enough.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 30/06/2020 00:14 by joethefanatic.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
30 June, 2020 00:17
It would be good but it would never happen, Hooper wants to build for the future not reverting to the past.
Bruce wouldn't put up with it either, that ship has sailed I reckon Joe.



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

ballsout
ballsout
30 June, 2020 00:32
Of course we would take him back, he's top quality, and miles better than Burns.

Would he come back under Bruce Craig? No way.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
30 June, 2020 00:42
Quote:
ballsout
Of course we would take him back, he's top quality, and miles better than Burns.
Would he come back under Bruce Craig? No way.

Bruce has something that the Tigs don't and that Ford evidently values enough to place his future at Leicester at risk. Cash.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
30 June, 2020 00:51
You are forgetting Hooper, will BC dismantle his 'build a Bath culture' for one man? I really doubt it.



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
30 June, 2020 03:52
Quote:
shipwrecked
You are forgetting Hooper, will BC dismantle his 'build a Bath culture' for one man? I really doubt it.

I'm not sure we know how Hoops feels about Ford. The big question for me is, if Hats is secretly Head Coach as Rhys Webb seems to think, how do he and Dempsey feel about Ford. Their brief is success now. Hoops' brief as DOR is the structure to support longer term success. The culture we are developing is going to have to be strong enough to handle the people we need, and some of them are going to be awkward b@st@rds.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

DanWiley
DanWiley
30 June, 2020 07:36
Big fan of George's rugby, would otherwise have him in my team in a heartbeat, but I just don't like going back over history, particularly when it's a little jaded.

That said, still tempted. We'd be dangerously close to a serious team.

TomReagan
TomReagan
30 June, 2020 08:20
Might need a decision before then, but wouldn't his availability be a big factor, and to know that we'd have to see what changes occur, if any, as part of this aim to create a global calendar. There is talk of even more international rugby at the expense of the club game to generate cash to fill the empty coffers.

P G Tips
P G Tips
30 June, 2020 08:22
Interesting question Joe.

Like Dan I would take George the player in a heartbeat. With him at the helm we looked and played our best for nearly 20 years.

George the squad member? Not sure. I actually think Hoops would entertain the idea- but would need to be absolutely certain of George's motives and commitment to the squad vision.

The key point is -why is he suddenly becoming available? As the man who almost single handedly over the past 2 seasons kept Leicester's results from disaster, why would the club let him go?

Reports in The Times this morning are that he, Tuilagi and Genge are the leading "contract rebels" refusing to take a salary cut to help the club's finances. That is not a good signal.

PG

dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865
30 June, 2020 08:22
Doubt we have the cap but Id take him by in an instant. Without a doubt.

Not that I can ever see it happening, given our history with him and his father.

Wonder if his girlfriend still lives in the area? Wonder if Hooper could talk him round?

dannyf2
dannyf2
30 June, 2020 08:26
Absolutely no chance he'd come back. He was reported to hate Bruce because of the way his dad went.

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
30 June, 2020 08:38
Cash is king, but as good a player as George is, I don't think he will want to come back to Bath or it being good for the club's future.

Personally I do not think it wise t lo return to a previous job once left and, more importantly, from what we read, Bruce wouldn't continence it.

George is not thinking of his existing club or its long term future, or their other players, just himself. I sincerely hope Mr Hooper and the management at Bath send him away if he asks, which I cannot see him doing.

Where he will go if true is interesting. Do Bristol want another fly half or the Chiefs?

Mind you I have always liked Genge and would sign him in a heart beat. He might end up going home to Bristol.



Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.

The Jink Joseph.

Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30/06/2020 08:54 by Bathovalballer.

WestonLurker
WestonLurker
30 June, 2020 08:48
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Personally I and more importantly, from what we read, Bruce wouldn't continence it.

There's an image to forget...

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
30 June, 2020 08:59
Player.........very good

What would the impact be on the squad culture............probably not good

Person who pays...........I would imagine there is no way Mr Craig would endorse having him back given the trauma the Club went through last time. I am sure we were only ever aware of a fraction of it in the public domain.

George and Bruce............I suspect both would turn the other down with equal vigour!

In the "modern era" is a player like GF real value for money? I would say probably Yes but I think that many of the very highly paid players are not. After Toby Faletau I suspect (I think I probably know) Mr Craig will shy away from the highly paid CURRENT international player transferring in.

opti
Optimist
30 June, 2020 09:26
In todays episode of the Moral Maze! This ones got the lot. Cant help wondering whether George is using this as an excuse to get out of Leicester, who may be rebuilding sensibly but are probably 5 years away from success. Is it too far-fetched to see him ending up at Sarries?

What irony it would be for Rhys - who had to make do with 3 minutes a week when George was here.

As a player .... GF is the precise jigsaw-piece were missing.

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
30 June, 2020 09:26
Have we full recovered from his flouncing off from us? I think the bridges are being built but as good a player as he is it would not be in the best interests of the squad to have him back.

The fact that he is one of the ringleaders in this dispute at Leicester to me says no thanks.



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30/06/2020 09:27 by CoochieCoo.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
30 June, 2020 09:40
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Cash is king

Given that he doesn't want to take a pay cut and that he couldn't be a marquee is Bath actually better able to afford him than anyone else domestically?



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
30 June, 2020 09:55
All this assumes he is off, thats not certain though is it. Won't both sides want a last minute solution especially with Manu and Genge involved, 3 key players that are virtually impossible to replace!



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
jayeatman
30 June, 2020 10:04
Seems to me if he wants to keep playing for England, he has two choices:
1. Take the pay cut and stay at Leicester
2. Bath. The only Prem club with an obvious vacancy and a budget to go with it.



BATH supporter since 1975

Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni

annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn
30 June, 2020 10:53
My guesstimate is that he will stay at Leicester. His father is now on the Coaching Team. Sounds to me rather like his Agent just wanting to up the anti with Leicester.

Some of you need to get a grip fantasising that he would remotely (as in the last rugby club on the planet) reconnect with Bath. That said he is still one of the best fly half's for game mgt and place kicking I've ever seen in his generation.

ballsout
ballsout
30 June, 2020 11:50
Quote:
CoochieCoo
The fact that he is one of the ringleaders in this dispute at Leicester to me says no thanks.

I imagine Genge and Bateman are. No clue why everyone seems to adore the former.

MESSAGES->author
Rawce
30 June, 2020 11:54
Is there anything in this or is it shirt stirring from Daily Heil and theyve just gone with the three biggest names to drop in a headline?

Would I take him back - yes.

Would he come back - no.

Bepetas
Bepetas
30 June, 2020 12:03
I'm sorry to see the Tigers struggling, they are a great club and have been great adversaries. If Bath are looking to recruit from Tigers, I'd have thought Jordan Taufua would be a good replacement for Francois Louw.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
30 June, 2020 12:09
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
CoochieCoo
The fact that he is one of the ringleaders in this dispute at Leicester to me says no thanks.

I imagine Genge and Bateman are. No clue why everyone seems to adore the former.

'Adore' may be pushing it but he is an entertaining character, like Marler. Both are annoying players when on the other team, would love either on mine for that reason. Wouldn't swap for Beno though tbf.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

P G Tips
P G Tips
30 June, 2020 12:11
More than just the Daily Hell Rawce.

Times & Telegraph report it too.

PG

bardofavon
bardofavon
30 June, 2020 13:21
there may be some potential signees emerging over the next few days with all the ruckus at tigers and Irish. bath would be in the driving seat for recruitment as hooper has made clear that we haven't exceeded our cap yet and he is still looking for players. I think we need another utility back player and of course a 10.
as for ford, bruce would never have him back. or his dad. ford's last 18 months at bath were like a trip to the dentists. the kid never smiled once. he made it clear he didn't want to be at the rec.
tigers haven't exactly flourished since he went back there either. given all his absences and what he costs clubs these days, ford just isn't worth it. also, we have just got rid of one prima donna (Freddie Burns) who was never a team man. why bring another in?
I think the covid effect has seriously reduced the marketability of england players like ford, Genge and sinkler. they cost too much and play too little.

MESSAGES->author
Jim H
30 June, 2020 13:25
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Where he will go if true is interesting. Do Bristol want another fly half or the Chiefs?

Mind you I have always liked Genge and would sign him in a heart beat. He might end up going home to Bristol.

We (Bristol) are pretty sorted at 10 with Sheedy, Ioan Lloyd and Eden so Ford would be expenise and disruptive to a fairly settled position.

Genge-wise we were apparently in for him at his last renewal and he chose Leicester as they paid more. Pretty happy with Sinckler & Afoa so not sure we could fit him in either..

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
30 June, 2020 13:36
Undoubtedly a top class player but 2020 has taught us that there are actually bigger things in life than being a famous pro sportsman.

Showing some loyalty and modesty whilst many of his fans lives are in crisis would go a long way and recover his reputation from any bad press.

You don't want to come across as selfish with the world as it is today.

I would not take him back despite being a brilliant talent. Move on, build a new spirit.

dannyf2
dannyf2
30 June, 2020 13:59
I think it's more realistic that if GF leaves, he goes somewhere else, opening the door on an incumbent 10. Who could afford him though?
Bristol? = Sheedy
Exe? = Simmonds
Gloucester? = Cipriani
Quins? = Smith
Bris are surely at the cap. Exe and Quins would surely want to stick with their home grown prodigies. Cipriani...?

MESSAGES->author
Jim H
30 June, 2020 14:04
Quote:
dannyf2
Bris are surely at the cap.

According to Tainton (CEO) we were miles under 2018/19, well under this season and under the (old) cap next season. Doubt there's room for a Genge or Ford though...

dannyf2
dannyf2
30 June, 2020 14:09
Quote:
Jim H
Quote:
dannyf2
Bris are surely at the cap.

According to Tainton (CEO) we were miles under 2018/19, well under this season and under the (old) cap next season. Doubt there's room for a Genge or Ford though...

If you're under, you'll be sniffing around like the proverbial bear in the honey shop! 10 is the last piece to the Bristol Galactico jigsaw.

It that happened, I'd happily take Sheedy. He's a great 10. Not showy, not an international - and (part) Welsh!

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
30 June, 2020 14:18
I suspect there is a bit of posturing going on with caps by some teams. A bit like lying to your neighbour 'yes I have a Ferrari but I only paid 20k for it'.

MESSAGES->author
Robbinho
30 June, 2020 14:53
Genge has tweeted an emoji of a croissant, so perhaps he's off to France...

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
30 June, 2020 14:56
Would Bath be a competitive side with Ford at 10? No doubt we would be.

Would Ford join Bath? Not even a remote chance of that, hed give up his England career and go to France rather than sign for Bath.

jameswood14
Woodpecker
30 June, 2020 15:00
I dont want him back and I dont think hed come. Hes very good but him and his dad are toxic.

Ali1969
Ali1969
30 June, 2020 15:38
Not a chance, when I think of the comments on here about having players chasing the money and being a toxic character and yet people are seriously considering us having him back after the way he and his family behaved and what they did to our club and our players.

IMHO go look somewhere else GF not wanted - clearly a gifted individual but he is a divisive character and that is being kind to him.... and what of his Dad this loyal coach who Geordan Murphy was so quick to support in light of Sam Burgess's comments.. Daggers drawn behind backs.

Personally the family from what I have seen and been told are clearly talented but poison and we just do not need a disruptive influence back in our changing rooms. Just my opinion.(Sm100)

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
30 June, 2020 15:45
What do we think GF would be earning at Leicester, 500,000?

How about we recruit Joel Hodgson from Newcastle and pay him 150,000..........which I suspect is way more than he is earning there and pay Falcons 100,000 to break his contract. The difference being JH would be available every game whereas a GF character is probably only available for half a season.

DanWiley
DanWiley
30 June, 2020 15:52
Is George, in himself, that toxic? I haven't really seen it, I think people just conflate him with his dad. Maybe also the fact he does look like he gets very "passionate" on the pitch. Doesn't seem altogether a bad thing.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
30 June, 2020 15:53
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
What do we think GF would be earning at Leicester, 500,000?
How about we recruit Joel Hodgson from Newcastle and pay him 150,000..........which I suspect is way more than he is earning there and pay Falcons 100,000 to break his contract. The difference being JH would be available every game whereas a GF character is probably only available for half a season.

Based on the Mark Wilson interview today I doubt you would have to pay Falcons anything - it seems far from getting paid some of them are actually donating to keep the club afloat. Not sure Joel Hodgson is really the quality 10 we are looking for - journeyman IMO.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Never In Doubt
Never In Doubt
30 June, 2020 15:54
Would rather have someone like Toomua who could play 10/12 and would give way to a young lad in 2-3 years.

If Ford came without baggage then he would be a dead cert but I doubt that he does.

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
30 June, 2020 16:01
Of course he is a Journeyman...........that's why we want him.

However every time I've seen him play, either at the Rec or on TV he has looked better than RP

When RP, our current number one choice, gets injured.............who do we then play?

He would be an excellent back up/stop gap until RP goes to be replaced by the one we want (we don't know who that is yet) and would stand between that player and OB

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
30 June, 2020 16:08
Quote:
DanWiley
Is George, in himself, that toxic? I haven't really seen it, I think people just conflate him with his dad. Maybe also the fact he does look like he gets very "passionate" on the pitch. Doesn't seem altogether a bad thing.

I dont like the fact that he doesnt seem to be able to exist without his dad, never did. We know why his dad got sacked and he stormed off too.

The Burgess interview also rang true to me. He's disruptive and not a team player.

John Tee
John Tee
30 June, 2020 16:48
Quote:
jayeatman
Seems to me if he wants to keep playing for England, he has two choices:
1. Take the pay cut and stay at Leicester
2. Bath. The only Prem club with an obvious vacancy and a budget to go with it.

This... the players hand at Tigers is weak...any decent CEO would take their bluff on.
I can see takers for Genge though in the league...

I dont see Bath being too keen on Ford beyond the rugby side.
My guess.
No takers for Ford unless he ditches England and goes to France or Japan.
Tuilagi..goes abroad
Genge.. English clubs chomping at the bit.

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
30 June, 2020 17:00
Quote:
John Tee
Quote:
jayeatman
Seems to me if he wants to keep playing for England, he has two choices:
1. Take the pay cut and stay at Leicester
2. Bath. The only Prem club with an obvious vacancy and a budget to go with it.

This... the players hand at Tigers is weak...any decent CEO would take their bluff on.
I can see takers for Genge though in the league...

I dont see Bath being too keen on Ford beyond the rugby side.
My guess.
No takers for Ford unless he ditches England and goes to France or Japan.
Tuilagi..goes abroad
Genge.. English clubs chomping at the bit.

Genge has been tweeting images of croissant and patisseries today!



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none

Eastbath
Eastbath
30 June, 2020 17:15
Telegraph reporting Genge signed on year deal before 17.00 deadline
Ford also likely to sign
Tuilagi less certain

9215
9215
30 June, 2020 17:15
Looks like Ford and Genge are staying put, no mention of Tuilagi though

DanWiley
DanWiley
30 June, 2020 17:21
Quote:
woodpecker
I dont like the fact that he doesnt seem to be able to exist without his dad, never did. We know why his dad got sacked and he stormed off too.

The dad thing is odd. I guess he's quite attached to him. In fairness, I don't think he stormed off though, he saw things out until other arrangements were made that were, apparently, seen as positive for all parties at the time.

I never got the fantasy with Burgess. Big lad, strong hitter, strong runner, but I've seen better at both that don't have the problem that they wouldn't know a ruck if it was lying on top of them. So I see his interview from one side and, to me, he comes across badly. I'm sure other don't like George and saw it the other way. I think if you could be truly neutral you'd say neither come out of that period that well.

George was upset that he'd lost his place to a player who was far from proven and, as we've seen, the Ford-Farrell midfield can be extremely effective. George must have had a strong suspicion of what they were capable of. We @#$%& away a HOME WC on that basis (and how!) given Ford's apparent ambition (which isn't necessarily a bad thing) I have some sympathy. Beyond that, the Burgess interview didn't really say that much about George as far as I could see.

Burgess feels like someone who tried something for fortune and/or glory, it didn't work out and he @#$%& off as soon as humanly possible. I don't really blame him for that, but it doesn't really place him high in my esteem.

OldMarovian
OldMarovian
30 June, 2020 17:31
I wouldn't have either within a mile of my club. That Snr is not the most trustworthy or decent if human-beings seems fairly well documented and I'm not convinced the apple falls far from the tree.
I certainly don't see Ford Jnr as the ultimate team player rather an individual who is purely in it for himself.
The contrast between his "negotiations" with Leicester and Lawes agreeing to see out his career at Northampton today couldn't be starker.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
30 June, 2020 17:34
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
When RP, our current number one choice, gets injured.............who do we then play?

You fancy doing it BSJ, the club may have just enough cash available in the cap to sign you.

dannyf2
dannyf2
30 June, 2020 17:36
Ellis Genge behaves like a 15 year old. His inability to see the bigger picture is irksome to say the least.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
30 June, 2020 17:42
Genge apparently tweeting sushi now ...... wind up!



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

John Tee
John Tee
30 June, 2020 17:42
Quote:
woodpecker
Quote:
DanWiley
Is George, in himself, that toxic? I haven't really seen it, I think people just conflate him with his dad. Maybe also the fact he does look like he gets very "passionate" on the pitch. Doesn't seem altogether a bad thing.

I dont like the fact that he doesnt seem to be able to exist without his dad, never did. We know why his dad got sacked and he stormed off too.

The Burgess interview also rang true to me. He's disruptive and not a team player.

This. but if he did find a home in England that would free up someone else, maybe more suitable.

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
30 June, 2020 17:49
Outside Bath

1. My wife would not let me play...........a few years ago I broached the idea of playing a bit of Vets Rugby where the different coloured shorts give you some protection........this was vetoed!

2. The men we could sign up are Gaz or Optimist, both in their time (and their dreams) brilliant flyhalves.

3. More seriously flyhalf is such a specialist position that you need to have a few available in the event of International call up (George Ford), unexpected international call up (Rhys Priestland) and injury. I wouldn't want to be relying on Orlando Bailey..........not that I am not sure he will be a great player in time I just don't think he needs the pressure of being the only player in the event of injury to RP.

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
30 June, 2020 18:02
I wasn't very happy with the whole Burgess incident either at Bath or England and I had quite a low opinion of him, but I listened to the interview in full and I thought he seemed like a genuine decent bloke and I was left with the opinion that George is in the same vein as his dad.

OldMarovian
OldMarovian
30 June, 2020 18:54
+1 woodpecker.

I was fairly ambivalent to Burgess but thought he came across well. Sure he has an ego but he's earned that right through his League performances and tbh I still think the level he got to in Union in such a short time and under such pressure was remarkable. He held his piece at the time under some fairly serious provocation and tbh I'm not sure what more Bath supporters expected of him in terms of sticking around. Would they stay at a company where the boss had lied to their faces and tried to undermine them?

John Tee
John Tee
30 June, 2020 21:08
He did say he'd stick around until such and such a date, but a deal was done virtually overnight and he didnt have to...so assume the release suited both sides?

I think all top class sportsmen certainly have egos...they have to have. But i think that supreme confidence can go alongside a degree of humility...

SJS
SJS
01 July, 2020 09:40
What got me about the whole 'Ford' saga was not that he wanted to leave because his dad left - understandable, but not very professional - but it was that his on pitch performance suffered badly.

He went from being an incisive attacking 10 who kicked reasonably well, to a 'ship-it-on' RP-alike who couldn't hit a barn door. That form carried on for England IIRC too. One of the reasons we signed Homer was to make up for Ford's dodgy kicking.

Bearing in mind the reasons for Ford Snr's departure were, as I understood it, not as a result of anything done by the club, and from what I gathered at the time, those particular reasons also meant Jnr was furious with Snr.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
01 July, 2020 09:48
Well it's all moot now cos he's rr-signed with the Tigs. But we still need a 10 and Dan Biggar has re-signed with the Stains sad smiley



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

DanWiley
DanWiley
01 July, 2020 09:49
To be fair, the whole team played like a drain during that period.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
01 July, 2020 09:57
Quote:
joethefanatic
Well it's all moot now cos he's rr-signed with the Tigs. But we still need a 10 and Dan Biggar has re-signed with the Stains sad smiley

Have the others re-signed as well?



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
Rawce
01 July, 2020 09:59
Not Tuilagi apparently.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
01 July, 2020 10:04
Interesting ....... better offer?



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
01 July, 2020 10:13
I think with Sam Burgess one of the biggest driver was that his wife wanted to go back and live in Oz

MESSAGES->author
Rawce
01 July, 2020 10:57
Quote:
shipwrecked
Interesting ....... better offer?
Not happy with a pay cut if you believe the papers. Talk of sackings and breach of contracts flying.

So I suspect hed make a fortune abroad. Which changes the England dynamic a fair bit.

Ali1969
Ali1969
01 July, 2020 11:01
Personally in my opinion when you consider what a privileged position these young fit men are in - living out their dreams playing professional sport and making considerable money whilst doing it - yes they do have to work hard and make sacrifices - but given the sacrifices being made by everyone in this pandemic I find the whole saga utterly distasteful and the players involved holding a great club like Leicester to public ransom leaves a foul taste in my mouth.

A message for all of them - Have a hard look around you selfish Morons. Try and explain your reasoning to people who have lost everything - their jobs, livelihoods and in some tragic cases members of their families - and some of those will be life long Tigers supporters.

Shame on you all. Pure GREED. Another dark day for our game I feel.

MESSAGES->author
Rawce
01 July, 2020 11:04
Not sure we know the half of it to cast judgement. Id look beyond the click bait headlines tbh.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
01 July, 2020 11:05
Quote:
Rawce
Quote:
shipwrecked
Interesting ....... better offer?
Not happy with a pay cut if you believe the papers. Talk of sackings and breach of contracts flying.

So I suspect hed make a fortune abroad. Which changes the England dynamic a fair bit.

Indeed it does, exactly my thought.



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

ballsout
ballsout
01 July, 2020 11:06
Quote:
OldMarovian
I certainly don't see Ford Jnr as the ultimate team player rather an individual who is purely in it for himself.

No you're thinking of Freddie Burns I believe. Ford Jnr is very much a team-man.

Quote:
dannyf2
Ellis Genge behaves like a 15 year old. His inability to see the bigger picture is irksome to say the least.

Yep, and all he has to do is burp and his fawning social media followers are all over him.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
01 July, 2020 11:09
Don't entirely agree Ali - sure someone like Manu has barely played and is on 500k which is ridiculous. There are others at the other end of the scale like Matt Scott:

[www.rugbypass.com]

Part of the issue at Tigers appears to be the way that it was all done. Other clubs like Sale and Saints don't seem to have had any such revolt and obviously handled things in a much more professional manner - despite their player not being overly chuffed with a pay cut I'm sure. Newcastle is the case in point - guys really have clubbed together to try and stop Falcons going under...



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Ali1969
Ali1969
01 July, 2020 11:19
Maybe Matt but at the end of the day - these players and or their representatives have played this out in the public eye/media - Leicester is facing a further localised lockdown and has suffered like elsewhere heartache and tragedy - so to have this played out in public is a slap in the face for all concerned.

If this a contractual legality then you need to deal with it by due process through the correct channels - there is strict legislation in place for breaches of contract etc.

All that comes out of the way this has been allowed to manifest itself is an air of negativity surrounding the players, the club and our game in general IMHO.

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
01 July, 2020 11:34
To be fair to Bath........and Exeter/Harlequins..........I have not read anything in the Press on this matter.

MESSAGES->author
hasta
01 July, 2020 12:06
Right, but there is little to no due process here - players are being bounced into long-term contracts with paycuts on very short notice.

opti
Optimist
01 July, 2020 12:37
I don't think George came out of the Burgess interview badly. MF came out very, very badly - with Sam's viewpoint seconded by Andy Goode. If anything I took out of Sam's interview that George's 'sulking' was probably whipped up by his dad. But I'm not sure i'd call George 'the ultimate team-man' .... he's a team-man when he's in it and driving it. But when he doesn't get his way, toys do seem to get thrown.

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
01 July, 2020 12:44
I wonder how the salary negotiations went at Bath, if there were any. Any news or insights from anyone?



Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.

The Jink Joseph.

Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
01 July, 2020 13:00
My point above...........didn't seem to hear anything so either went well as it could do in the difficult circumstances, or................we have got problems ahead. However think it must have been the former because one would have thought we would have heard by now.

Of course if we had loads of capacity under the cap then any reduction would be able to be less to come in under the new temporary lower cap...........however that of course would then restrict us signing anyone else...........unless they agreed to not earn much for the next year and then went on "proper" pay when the cap went back to its original higher level.

P G Tips
P G Tips
01 July, 2020 13:01
Quote:
Bathovalballer
I wonder how the salary negotiations went at Bath, if there were any. Any news or insights from anyone?

See Bath Squad Thread-CharlieBOA's post on 26/6.

PG

MESSAGES->author
jayeatman
01 July, 2020 17:47
Manu Tuilagi one of six players stood down by Leicester for not signing a new contract before yesterday's deadline.
The others are Telusa Veainu, Kyle Eastmond, Greg Bateman, Noel Reid and Jordan Taufua.
What do people think about Tuilagi (ok unlikely I know)?
Or getting Eastmond back (ok, also unlikely he'd want to come)?
I guess they'll end up overseas. Sad.



BATH supporter since 1975

Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni

MESSAGES->author
hasta
01 July, 2020 18:06
I just don't think any of those backs fit for us. Manu's not available enough (we've already got JJ for that) Kyle is injured all the time. Veainu is class but has injury issues and fullback seems where we want to develop TdG. Taufua I could go for - I guess he'll head to France though. Reid might be a decent back-up to Rhys, don't know enough about him.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
01 July, 2020 18:19
Agree Hasta, I think Dan said it previously revisiting is going backwards.



https://i.ibb.co/gjWyP09/Unknown-1-2.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

sirtidychris
sirtidychris
01 July, 2020 19:34
Bit of self righteous tosh on here. The amateur days are well an truly over, club rugby is a business and players are a commodity. Players have a very limited time to earn as much money as possible, apart from maybe a very select handful unlike footballers they wont be able to retire on what they have earnt, instead they will have to get a new career to pay the Bill's and basically start at the bottom. Many of them will have to do this with arthritic joints and permanent injuries from the weekly grind. Manu is 29, he is one big injury away from possible retirement and he doesn't have the same level of education alot of the players have. Good luck to manu I hope he gets a huge salary somewhere that will support his family over the long run. If I was having my salary slashed and was offered a huge pay increase to move company I would, it would improve my family life, I wouldnt turn it down because some people in the country are having a rough time of it, that's just bizarre.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2020 19:36 by sirtidychris.

tigerburnie
tigerburnie
01 July, 2020 19:38
Gossip is Genge and Ford are staying but others are going, Manu has left the building apparently

[www.msn.com]

dannyf2
dannyf2
01 July, 2020 21:36
Quote:
sirtidychris
Bit of self righteous tosh on here. The amateur days are well an truly over, club rugby is a business and players are a commodity. Players have a very limited time to earn as much money as possible, apart from maybe a very select handful unlike footballers they wont be able to retire on what they have earnt, instead they will have to get a new career to pay the Bill's and basically start at the bottom. Many of them will have to do this with arthritic joints and permanent injuries from the weekly grind. Manu is 29, he is one big injury away from possible retirement and he doesn't have the same level of education alot of the players have. Good luck to manu I hope he gets a huge salary somewhere that will support his family over the long run. If I was having my salary slashed and was offered a huge pay increase to move company I would, it would improve my family life, I wouldnt turn it down because some people in the country are having a rough time of it, that's just bizarre.

"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest" said Adam Smith. Keynes called it 'Animal spirit'. The trouble is, the demand for the 'commodity' - that is, the players (your word) - has fallen dramatically. The Labour market that the players have come expect has been vastly over inflated by the influence of benefactors that have paid wages that are far above the equilibrium. Reality is biting now - as it was always going to, at some point.
If the players want to be self interested market fundamentalists, fine. But they should remember that as much as the invisible hand gives, it also takes. If they would prefer a regulated, less unequal market where the likes of Tuilagi doesn't get paid 50x the average academy lad, they could have protection against these fluctuations. But I'm not hearing many asking for that.

annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn
01 July, 2020 22:37
Been able to read the article in the Times now - heyho.
Astonished that it mentions that Ford is possibly on 650k and other similar status players the same.

Accept that is the market rate - but = blimey! I know they only on the whole have a limited no of years when they can earn but even so.

TomReagan
TomReagan
01 July, 2020 23:18
Quote:
dannyf2
Quote:
sirtidychris
Bit of self righteous tosh on here. The amateur days are well an truly over, club rugby is a business and players are a commodity. Players have a very limited time to earn as much money as possible, apart from maybe a very select handful unlike footballers they wont be able to retire on what they have earnt, instead they will have to get a new career to pay the Bill's and basically start at the bottom. Many of them will have to do this with arthritic joints and permanent injuries from the weekly grind. Manu is 29, he is one big injury away from possible retirement and he doesn't have the same



level of education alot of the players have. Good luck to manu I hope he gets a huge salary somewhere that will support his family over the long run. If I was having my salary slashed and was offered a huge pay increase to move company I would, it would improve my family life, I wouldnt turn it down because some people in the country are having a rough time of it, that's just bizarre.

"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest" said Adam Smith. Keynes called it 'Animal spirit'. The trouble is, the demand for the 'commodity' - that is, the players (your word) - has fallen dramatically. The Labour market that the players have come expect has been vastly over inflated by the influence of benefactors that have paid wages that are far above the equilibrium. Reality is biting now - as it was always going to, at some point.
If the players want to be self interested market fundamentalists, fine. But they should remember that as much as the invisible hand gives, it also takes. If they would prefer a regulated, less unequal market where the likes of Tuilagi doesn't get paid 50x the average academy lad, they could have protection against these fluctuations. But I'm not hearing many asking for that.
I can understand both viewpoints, so 'self righteous tosh' seems very harsh. I think opinion will be equally divided. It is worth noting that Tigers were pretty loyal when MT was out injured for so many games. No doubt they were patient as they know what he brings to the team when he's fit and available, but I'd be interested to know how much he's been paid by Tigers per game played over the last 3 seasons.

Kidney Stone
Kidney Stone
01 July, 2020 23:28
Quote:
Woodpecker
I dont want him back and I dont think hed come. Hes very good but him and his dad are toxic.

+1

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
02 July, 2020 08:17
Tigers saying that Manu and the rest have been made 'redundant'? I wonder if they had to have a payout? If its for the rest of their contract doesn't that all count towards the cap anyway? Messy.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

gaz59
gaz59
02 July, 2020 08:20
Quote:
annie blackthorn
Been able to read the article in the Times now - heyho.
Astonished that it mentions that Ford is possibly on 650k and other similar status players the same.

Accept that is the market rate - but = blimey! I know they only on the whole have a limited no of years when they can earn but even so.

Surely, it is only worth a club to have a player on a salary like that if a) he is part of a squad capable of competing for silverware or/and b) his presence sells enough extra seats or merchandise

Why else have such an expensive player on your books?

Where Tigers are currently it just doesn't make commercial or organisational sense which probably explains the argy-bargy over contract salary

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
02 July, 2020 08:25
Quote:
gaz59

Surely, it is only worth a club to have a player on a salary like that if a) he is part of a squad capable of competing for silverware or/and b) his presence sells enough extra seats or merchandise

Why else have such an expensive player on your books?


Add to that the fact that he is away the year with international matches - Steven Luatua was reportedly on similar but he offers so much every single week to Bristol it could be argued that he is worth it.

Let's face it Gaz - Bath are the club most like Leicester with lots of (largely away or injured) internationals but not likely to be competing for silverware anytime soon.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn
02 July, 2020 10:31
I have dithered over posting this, but IF Tuilagi has left over being asked to accept a 'pay cut' he is living up to my opinion of him as a spoilt brat youngest son.

A reminder. He came to the UK to reside/live with his older brothers when he was in his early teens (13) when they were playing for Leicester. He lived with them and went to school in Leicester. Then when he had got to the stage of being able to play professionally, the Immigration Authorities realised he was here illegally, and despite Leicester's representations, he was sitting on the plane about to be deported and goodness knows who persuaded the Authorities he was 'legit' and he returned to Leicester. Leaving out his various idiotic misdemeanours off pitch, he has been unable to play for months and months whilst injured on two major occasions, all the while being funded (as is correct) by Leicester RFC. IMVHO he owes them. So please don't spring to his defence. Sooner he is off to France/Japan or wherever, the better. He has made a healthy packet out of his adopted country.

sirtidychris
sirtidychris
02 July, 2020 10:53
I don't understand your point ? whats has his immigration status when he was a child got to do with anything. Is it because hes not a born and bred English man you have a problem. I'm sure the state has made a healthy packet out of tuilagi in Tax and hes helped the national rugby team so I don't think he owes the country anything further. Hes definitely made mistakes off the pitch so what, people do stupid things when young and/or drinking, he seems like a much more mature guy and doting father now. I can see why fans are annoyed about the injuries and Leicester have been loyal to him but only because of how good he is. The club seem philosophical about it, they can use the tuilagi money now to invest in the squad and players that dont get injured as much, I don't see why a sensible financial decision to help his familys future should result in a character assassination.

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
02 July, 2020 10:56
I would say that Tuilagi's options to earn money as a pundit or a journalist are somewhat limited.

bardofavon
bardofavon
02 July, 2020 13:00
poor from Manu. Leicester paid him well, stood by him when he had all those injuries and now the club is in a spot of bother and he is asked to help out, he refuses and heads for the door.

cb2
cb2
02 July, 2020 14:00
It would seem a perfect opportunity for England to dip their toes in the water and make him their first centrally contracted player.

MESSAGES->author
Jim H
02 July, 2020 14:12
Quote:
bardofavon
poor from Manu. Leicester paid him well, stood by him when he had all those injuries and now the club is in a spot of bother and he is asked to help out, he refuses and heads for the door.

To be fair he did stay at Leicester when offered a load more cash to go to France.....

He has a short career left, he's prone to injury as well so he could be finished at any time and he has to plan for the rest of his life. I can completely understand his position. Plus no-one really knows how big a cut they asked him to take.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
02 July, 2020 14:13
Quote:
cb2
It would seem a perfect opportunity for England to dip their toes in the water and make him their first centrally contracted player.

Nah, move on and get Ollie Lawrence up to speed for the next world cup.



[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

OldMarovian
OldMarovian
02 July, 2020 14:50
Quote:
annie blackthorn
I have dithered over posting this ...

Perhaps you should have done more than dither? There's a very unpleasant undercurrent to that post.

ballsout
ballsout
02 July, 2020 16:14
Quote:
OldMarovian
Quote:
annie blackthorn
I have dithered over posting this ...

Perhaps you should have done more than dither? There's a very unpleasant undercurrent to that post.

Same as all her posts

annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn
02 July, 2020 23:03
That is your perception. No unpleasant undercurrents. My point is that Leicester have supported him through thick and thin and when they ask for a bit of financial loyalty (not a lot) in return, he can't be bothered.

Unlike yourselfballsout who's comments are always so unquestionably fulsome in praise and support!!! LOL!

ballsout
ballsout
02 July, 2020 23:14
Quote:
annie blackthorn
My point is that Leicester have supported him through thick and thin and when they ask for a bit of financial loyalty (not a lot) in return, he can't be bothered.

If only that was the entirety of your post, no one would have batted an eyelid.

Quote:
Unlike yourselfballsout who's comments are always so unquestionably fulsome in praise and support!!! LOL!

Very different type of criticism.

John Tee
John Tee
03 July, 2020 08:27
Quote:
annie blackthorn
That is your perception. No unpleasant undercurrents. My point is that Leicester have supported him through thick and thin and when they ask for a bit of financial loyalty (not a lot) in return, he can't be bothered.

I think this is a fair point of view.....not sure why the poster got jumped on.

Goto Page: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net