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FREDDIE BURNS
Discussion started by mackemII (IP Logged), 16 September, 2020 11:27
LONDON IRISH
mackemII
16 September, 2020 11:27

MESSAGES->author
jayeatman
16 September, 2020 11:43
It beats me how a back, no matter how talented, can expect a starting slot if they can only play 60 mins. It also beats me how a club thought it was a good idea to swap George Ford for such a player. Ok, I realise that wasn't really their first choice option.

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
16 September, 2020 11:48
Look, I wish Freddie the best. It just didn't work out.

But I find all this complaining about not be treated fairly unconvincing and unedifying.

Club morale seems good at the moment. I hope Freddie's morale is better too.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
16 September, 2020 11:50
I think he has some good points there but sometimes you are better off just keeping your thoughts to yourself and your close friends and family.

opti
Optimist
16 September, 2020 12:01
Quote:
B4thB4ck
I think he has some good points there but sometimes you are better off just keeping your thoughts to yourself and your close friends and family.

What's the problem? He owes Bath nothing, as they owe him nothing. Everyone can see it didn't work out the way he wanted it to, for whatever reason. The criticism of the Club and individuals is pretty mild compared to what you read on here all day every day. He was very successful at Gloucester and Leicester - two pretty hard schools - played for England, and now he's in a position where he can say what he thinks. As a Bath fan I'm interested to get something about Bath Rugby that isn't a carefully crafted corporate message set. We've all spent endless hours on here pondering and wondering why/what/how/when this, that and the other happened at Bath Rugby. He's giving us a bit of unfettered insight (his viewpoint only, of course). Enjoy.

DanWiley
DanWiley
16 September, 2020 12:11
I was expecting something inflammatory given the comments. That all seemed fair enough and reasonably measured for someone who will be pretty disappointed with his time here.

TomReagan
TomReagan
16 September, 2020 12:18
He's free to say what he likes of course, but I think he'd be better off showing us how good he can be when he goes to Japan, albeit his criticisms weren't particularly harsh. I've set through leaving speeches when people have been highly critical of management and it just comes across as a bit bitter, even if perhaps justified! If Hooper came out and publicly stated why he didn't select Burns I'd think it equally unnecessary and lacking in class. As to it being 'unfettered insight', I agree that most of the stuff we read from the club is predictably anodyne, but in the same way that a current and favoured player will be suitably 'on message', a player who's been on the fringes and released is perhaps just as likely to be critical of a club he feels rejected by?

bardofavon
bardofavon
16 September, 2020 12:19
I dont think Freddie was ever a bath rugby man. he was a Freddie burns man. and what bath wanted from Freddie was clearly not what Freddie wanted from Freddie.
I get the impression that burns may well have been a pain in the neck within the squad. what else explains him not being offered an extension until the end of the year, when he heads off to Japan? after all he is just sitting around at home in bath and playing rugby for Combe down at a time when our fly half resources are thin. and why did they dump him without even lining up a replacement?
Blackadder complained burns wouldn't play according to the plans agreed in team meetings before games. and then there was his leg cramp problems which meant he was pretty much restricted to 50 minutes a match. in the final analysis though Freddie never played well enough for us. he was a showboater, but didnt deserve to be number 1.
looking at the happy bath player camp today you have to figure that bath is better off without him. and he is better off without bath.

ballsout
ballsout
16 September, 2020 12:27
"and when I did come on at fly-half I felt my tactical kicking game was up to scratch, so it was hard to take not playing.”

(Sm22)(Sm22)(Sm22)

He's delusional.

Quote:
bardofavon
I dont think Freddie was ever a bath rugby man. he was a Freddie burns man.

This. 1000%.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
16 September, 2020 12:28
Quote:
Optimist
Quote:
B4thB4ck
I think he has some good points there but sometimes you are better off just keeping your thoughts to yourself and your close friends and family.

What's the problem?

No problem for me, I am happy to read these things. I was thinking of Freddie who is still a pro rugby player and would not benefit from a reputation for being too blunt to the press. Hartley's book for example, is post retirement.

ballsout
ballsout
16 September, 2020 13:10
Burns keeping quiet?

He has a social media profile to think of, his latest highlights reel and The Freddie Burns Show, coming to a poor rugby club in Japan soon enough

Quote:
I want to go to Japan and really showcase my attacking talent

Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
16 September, 2020 13:14
A bit like the Ballsout Show on 'Ere, sometimes?

ballsout
ballsout
16 September, 2020 13:43
You mean a message board meant for opinions and discussion? If you want to call it a Show, go for it?

charlieboa
charlieboa
16 September, 2020 13:51
I think rhys would have had a very genuine gripe when mike ford always played george every minute of most games irrespective of form, individual/team performance.

Burns got chances, just often didnt play very well. No real issue with his carping, just think he needs to move on and i wish him the best with that in japan.

DanWiley
DanWiley
16 September, 2020 14:17
I think we overplay the lack of opportunities for both.

2016/17 George played nearly 2000 min, a lot but he's a quality 10.
That year Rhys played 800, what would you expect from a clear second choice?
Freddie often played about 1000 min a season.

There's an argument there if you really want to make it. The positions, the type of games, I would say the difference between George and Rhys is bigger than Rhys to Freddie etc. But it looks to me like they both basically played about the time you'd expect a second choice 10 to play.

Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
16 September, 2020 14:32
Quote:
ballsout
You mean a message board meant for opinions and discussion? If you want to call it a Show, go for it?


Ah Yes! Opinions.
There are many and varied opinions expressed on this board.
Yours were first expressed on these pages many years ago: that Bath are/were rubbish.
The problem with your posts, and I am not the only one to hold this view, is that you keep posting the same mantra, week in, week out, even when Bath are not fulfilling your set ideas.
It was noticeable on the Bath/Sale thread on Sunday, that you set out with the same mindset, but refused to engage in that thread when Bath were playing well, and not to your expectations. There wasn't even a 'Well done, Bath' comment at the end of the game.
Your posts could be seen as repetitive, even if the wording is not exactly the same; the sentiment is.
You have, occasionally, posted some knowledgeable opinions on this site, but your anti Bath posts are unnecessary.

opti
Optimist
16 September, 2020 14:34
'Rhys played 800' - probably worth breaking down those figures in terms of which competitions, which part of which match, and which position. Just as Burns did, Priestland got minutes at full-back.

I do wonder whether, when RP 're-signed' for Bath, he did so (having the Club somewhat over a barrel) on the understanding that he was clear first choice. He got a pretty cr@p deal under the Fords - such that he reversed his 'retirement' from Int rugby - and probably felt like he didn't want to get caught in that situation again.

In fact ... i'm going to go with that theory, which enables me to lay the blame for a whole range of subsequent events at Mike Ford's door!

ballsout
ballsout
16 September, 2020 14:53
Quote:
Mike the Taxi
There wasn't even a 'Well done, Bath' comment at the end of the game.

Look again.

And all my complaints are still accurate, inaccurate play and barely touching the ball in the first 20 minutes (or the last 40 tbf).

opti
Optimist
16 September, 2020 15:06
You made yourself look a complete mug on the Northampton and Harlequins threads when you were virtually salivating at every Bath error and then did an Oates the minute the team turned it round. You then kept your counsel for the Worcester game because you knew that Bath would win that comfortably however many mistakes we made. You then returned to the fray at the start of the Sale match because you (like most of us) felt confident that Bath were unlikely to go and win.

What's the plan for the Gloucester game? I'll have a bet that you don't say anything on that thread until the result is known.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
16 September, 2020 15:08
It’s actually good to read a relatively open interview without the gushing praise for his old club. Much prefer it if players just say what they’re feeling rather than what they think should say to please everyone.

TomReagan
TomReagan
16 September, 2020 15:18
Very much agree OB. So many autobiographies are boring and bland because players, commendably I acknowledge, don't want to betray confidences or hit out at fellow professionals. My only issue with FB is that the way his time at Bath ended leaves him open to accusations of bitterness. If he kept quiet and at the end of his playing career offered a frank view on Bath it would carry more weight and not look so petty. As I said earlier, I'd not be impressed with the club if they responded to his comments, albeit as we've all noted, they're hardly explosive!

Kidney Stone
Kidney Stone
16 September, 2020 16:15
For me Bard of Avon captures it perfectly.

Thanks and good luck Freddie.

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
16 September, 2020 17:53
I am very sad that it came to this.

He is a brilliant player who had the highest of expectations of playing for his home town.

However his attitude and style just did not fit with Blackadder and then everything went into a downward spiral.

Being brought on on 72 minutes with Bath behind to conjure up a score to try and recover the match is no good for anyone.

I absolutely understand that he had to leave and Bath had to let him go.

However his style of play is just what we need at the moment to extend our capability as a squad. Mind you that was why he was brought in in the first place!!

ballsout
ballsout
16 September, 2020 19:08
Quote:
Optimist
You made yourself look a complete mug on the Northampton and Harlequins threads when you were virtually salivating at every Bath error and then did an Oates the minute the team turned it round. You then kept your counsel for the Worcester game because you knew that Bath would win that comfortably however many mistakes we made. You then returned to the fray at the start of the Sale match because you (like most of us) felt confident that Bath were unlikely to go and win.
What's the plan for the Gloucester game? I'll have a bet that you don't say anything on that thread until the result is known.

How convenient you leave out the three posts in each of those cases where I celebrated the win afterwards, and admitted to being proven wrong. But then your point doesn't really stack up if you admit to that does it.

ballsout
ballsout
16 September, 2020 19:10
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
However his style of play is just what we need at the moment to extend our capability as a squad. Mind you that was why he was brought in in the first place!!

By "style of play" do you mean kicking the ball away for the opposition to score from? Dropping the ball over the try-line and costing us a European win? Failing to land a conversion in that same game from directly in front? Being red carded on debut?

Or maybe you mean kicking the ball away (his self proclaimed "superb tactical kicking") against Bristol, when we were in their 22 with a few minutes left on the clock, when we needed a try to win the game. Bears got the ball and saw the rest of the game out.

opti
Optimist
16 September, 2020 21:35
Quote:
ballsout
his self proclaimed "superb tactical kicking"

Could you point me to the source where he proclaims his kicking “superb”?

I can only find: ‘I felt my tactical kicking game was up to scratch’.

Cheers mate.

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
16 September, 2020 23:53
Ballsout you of course are right he was trying to conjure the amazing out of nothing in a handful of minutes with a pack that in the past that was struggling to hold its own..

Because the pack were not in control the scrum half got poor ball so Freddie got even poorer ball and had to do something special...............RP would not even know where to begin under those conditions.

warrenball
warrenball
17 September, 2020 08:06
I can understand Freddie's frustration, most of us here found it difficult to understand why Priestland was playing so much and giving so little. However you always got the impression Freddie was trying too hard to come up with something spectacular instead of playing the percentages and I can see why the coaches may not have agreed. I am quite happy to hear his views which seem quite balanced to me, but it seemed fairly obvious that a move would be best for both player and club. What is less obvious is why it has taken so long to find a suitable attacking replacement, the club must understand forward dominated play can only take you so far.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
17 September, 2020 08:36
Quote:
warrenball
What is less obvious is why it has taken so long to find a suitable attacking replacement, the club must understand forward dominated play can only take you so far.

Sounds like they have found a few, but they are either not available within budget, want to stay and fight for international honours, or would prefer to go somewhere else (like Pollards wife). I am content that they aren't just going for the last chicken in the shop like some recruits of the past.



[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

dannyf2
dannyf2
17 September, 2020 08:43
Oh dear... Embarrassing

opti
Optimist
17 September, 2020 08:47
‘I am content that they aren't just going for the last chicken in the shop like some recruits of the past’

That’s a good point BathMatt, and I may reluctantly admit that Hooper’s pragmatism in tailoring our rugby to what we have got (rather than what we’d like to have), and Priestland’s delivery of that strategy, with the ensuing results, also deserves praise.

gaz59
gaz59
17 September, 2020 09:45
Quote:
Optimist
‘I am content that they aren't just going for the last chicken in the shop like some recruits of the past’
That’s a good point BathMatt, and I may reluctantly admit that Hooper’s pragmatism in tailoring our rugby to what we have got (rather than what we’d like to have), and Priestland’s delivery of that strategy, with the ensuing results, also deserves praise.

That's an entirely fair point Opti, I hadn't seen it like that before but I agree if that is what it is and I accept it is the best explanation

On the Freddie Burns article, I have no problem with him being open and honest about his experience, my problem is that it has all been said before. I can't see what anyone gets from continuing to rehash it [apart from The Rugby Paper maybe], time for him and all involved to simply leave behind and move on

Ali1969
Ali1969
17 September, 2020 09:59
Personally - I like Freddie as a player and a person - yes a little outspoken and cheeky but it goes with the way he plays.

It didn't work out and I agree with him that the incident in the European Cup cost him his Bath career, the Owner, coaches lost faith in him.

The big issue for me is the way the club and particularly Hoops handled the situation in the closing months. This is a professional sport and with that comes a responsibility for both parties to act professionally and responsibly - just giving a player the "Cold Shoulder" is not the way in my opinion to behave.

We can only imagine given the armchair ride Rhys is having on the end of a dominant pack and a bullet pass from Spencer what damage and creativity Freddie would have produced and for me as a supporter of both club and player that saddens me.

I personally wish Freddie the best of luck - he is and will remain to be a top player and bloke and I am sorry it was not to be with his home town club.

opti
Optimist
17 September, 2020 10:16
Quote:
gaz59
On the Freddie Burns article, I have no problem with him being open and honest about his experience, my problem is that it has all been said before. I can't see what anyone gets from continuing to rehash it

Gaz - he's been using his profile and his down-time to promote this:

'Freddie Burns is an ambassador for the DFY Foundation which uses sport to make a positive impact in the community. It is a non-profit organisation aiming to inspire kids from disadvantaged backgrounds to achieve their full potential through mentorship'

It's a fairly standard media/public figure pact.

The fact that Burns is extremely active on social media and has a lot of followers and engagement means he has a bigger platform, which he is able to use for a good cause.

Dave248
Dave248
17 September, 2020 21:13
Bard of Avon he’s not playing for Combe Down he’s helping out coaching pre season before he goes off and earns the big bucks. Shame Spencer wasn’t brought in last couple of years as Fred would have excelled with him inside him. How anybody can say he didn’t play for Bath he played for himself is a joke. A pain in the neck in the bath squad - how rude and totally untrue. He was one of the few last few seasons who had the passion and grit and truely hurt when things weren’t going right.

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
17 September, 2020 23:45
I am with Ali on FB. It is a great shame he didn't have Spencer inside him behind this seasons pack, but obviously that game against Toulouse was pivotal in the coaches perception of his play and no doubted tainted their view. It is a travesty for a Bath born obviously gifted guy did not have a chance to show his full range of skills and talents, for whatever reason, as he could have been the catalyst to drive the team forward and bring out the best of our other backs on a position we can all see is a weakness in our current set up.

Hope you thrive Freddie. Best of luck to you in the future.



Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano


Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

miller8
miller8
18 September, 2020 01:32
This is the guy who turned his back on Bath to join Gloucester and returned grudgingly as part of a swop arrangement.

DanWiley
DanWiley
18 September, 2020 07:59
I'd be pretty disappointed if the Toulouse game really had a big impact on the coaches opinion. The fans opinion of him, sure. His own confidence, quite possibly. Bruce's, who knows. But surely coaches are well aware players make mistakes, some of them cost you games. It's a pretty poor coach that sees one and writes a player off. It's also not what I think happened. FB just never clicked here. What I saw we'd go through 3 or 4 phases of uninspired attack and then, it seems having run out of ideas, we'd kick the ball away, and not particularly well. We'd play more or less the same with RP, but that wasted kick away just want quite so inevitable. It got to the point I remember thinking "teams must love playing us, no need for a defensive plan, just ride out those few phases and wait for the ball to be presented."

I can see that it might be a clash of styles. I can see is moving the ball laterally 3 or 4 times, hoping that something would happen, would frustrate an attacking 10. If the players around you are coached to expect that what else can you do. A shot to nothing kick? The problem is that needs your teammates to respond as well.

Who's wrong? Bath for bringing in such a player, then playing the wrong sort of rugby or him for not adapting? A bit of both really.

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
18 September, 2020 08:04
By report Miller8 this was the boy who was offered £25,000 by Bath in their Academy and £90,000 by Gloucester.

What would you have done?

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
18 September, 2020 08:32
I know that this is all about FBs time at Bath and whether he was fairly treated, but am a bit uncomfortable about this thread having turned into a critique of his personality, with some fairly strong statements which appear pretty speculative....

Anyway, irrespective of anything related to his personality, his 'high risk, potentially high reward' style just didn't fit with what Bath was looking for IMO - in the same was as Cips wouldn't have been a fit for the reasons he demonstrated last week. Its always a shame when a home grown lad comes back to the fold and it doesn't work out how anyone wanted, but that's just life and hopefully both Fred and the club can move on to their respective successes.



[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

Never In Doubt
Never In Doubt
18 September, 2020 08:55
Agreed this shouldn't become a sniping thread. I do think that English team sport is primarily based on a team culture with less room for players who go against the grain. When more maverick players have poor runs of form, get frustrated and decide to go against the team strategy then this leads to player/coach conflict if it doesn't pay off.

I think this is what happened with FB but Japanese culture is even more team based so hope he reflects a bit on his role in his time at Bath.

gaz59
gaz59
18 September, 2020 09:11
Quote:
Optimist
Quote:
gaz59
On the Freddie Burns article, I have no problem with him being open and honest about his experience, my problem is that it has all been said before. I can't see what anyone gets from continuing to rehash it

Gaz - he's been using his profile and his down-time to promote this:

'Freddie Burns is an ambassador for the DFY Foundation which uses sport to make a positive impact in the community. It is a non-profit organisation aiming to inspire kids from disadvantaged backgrounds to achieve their full potential through mentorship'

OK, I can get that though it's not immediately obvious to people like me and articles like that come across as a perpetual gripe even if behind the scene there is a far, far better reason

I'm one of those in the pro Freddie camp and would just prefer him to find ways to raise his profile with stuff that is more positive and forward looking

I wish him success and happiness in his future, wherever that may be, he deserves it

It's a fairly standard media/public figure pact.

The fact that Burns is extremely active on social media and has a lot of followers and engagement means he has a bigger platform, which he is able to use for a good cause.

ballsout
ballsout
19 September, 2020 02:22
Quote:
Dave248
Bard of Avon he’s not playing for Combe Down he’s helping out coaching pre season before he goes off and earns the big bucks. Shame Spencer wasn’t brought in last couple of years as Fred would have excelled with him inside him. How anybody can say he didn’t play for Bath he played for himself is a joke. A pain in the neck in the bath squad - how rude and totally untrue. He was one of the few last few seasons who had the passion and grit and truely hurt when things weren’t going right.

Quote:
Ali1969
It didn't work out and I agree with him that the incident in the European Cup cost him his Bath career, the Owner, coaches lost faith in him.

The Toulouse incident (do you mean dropping the ball or missing a kick at the sticks literally right in front?) had nothing to do with it not working out. Nor did his red card on debut, or the multiple tries he gave the opposition, the endless amount of possession he kicked away badly. It was a combination of all that, his all round poor play, and him putting himself above the team.

Seriously, what kind of team player leaves a club and posts a highlights reel he made himself in his goodbye speech?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/09/2020 02:23 by ballsout.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
19 September, 2020 08:33
FB started 39 games for Bath and was sub in another 34. Are those 3 things that you keep repeating really the only legacy of the player? Not the 300+ point scored, 6 tries, 3 drop goals. 1 red and zero yellow cards doesn't smack of a really dirty player, whether it was first game or not.



[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
19 September, 2020 09:49
Personally I was always a fan of Freddie and really hoped he would kick on from the great form and performances he produced for both Leicester and Gloucester. Some of his play was quite inspirational and at times he showed he had the X factor and could pull off things others never thought of. He was returning to his roots and that motivation alone would have added to him wanting to do well. It is a huge shame in my view it didn't work out for him or the club, not blaming anyone in particular.

I wish you every success in the future Freddie and hope it brings you greater happiness.



Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano


Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

Dave248
Dave248
20 September, 2020 10:49
Ballsout you don’t know him personally. Stop the sniping. Stop the hate. Embarrassing.

ballsout
ballsout
20 September, 2020 17:42
Quote:
Dave248
Ballsout you don’t know him personally. Stop the sniping. Stop the hate. Embarrassing.

I'm not talking about him personally?

opti
Optimist
20 September, 2020 19:01
Quote:
Dave248
Ballsout you don’t know him personally. Stop the sniping. Stop the hate. Embarrassing.

Go easy on him Dave. He’s struggling to find anything to post now that his entire Bath are sh*t schtick keeps mugging him off.


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