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Second Lockdown Poll
Discussion started by shipwrecked (IP Logged), 21 September, 2020 20:54
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
21 September, 2020 20:54

Do you think we should lockdown a second time if cases continue to rise?

Yes, and I would fully comply.
Yes, but I might bend the rules.
No, I don't agree but its the law.
No, and I wouldn't follow the rules.

You must be logged in to vote.

60 Votes

Show results

Fair bit of discussion about a second lockdown so perhaps we should see if it is supported and whether Forum members would comply with it.

You don't need to comment if you don't want to, you can just vote annonomously.



https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

DanWiley
DanWiley
21 September, 2020 20:58
It would depend on the rules though. I'm really cross about what we've put my kids through.

DanWiley
DanWiley
21 September, 2020 20:59
I might use my common sense when interpreting the law as well. A mate of mine, Dom, says that's fine.

JFPC
JFPC
21 September, 2020 21:20
No, and I'll probably bend some of the rules.



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley. Weird split household co-parented
player 2020 Josh Matavesi

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
21 September, 2020 22:34
Living in BANES I find the idea of a non specific lockdown complete nonesense

OBinFiji
OBinFiji
22 September, 2020 02:37
I might not be relevant - being in Fiji - we're nowhere near the need for a 2nd lockdown - having not had a case in the community for 4 months. The 1st lockdown cleared out the virus in the community and so was a success.

OK, no money coming into the country because we daren't allow 'infected foreigners' in - and that will impact sooner rather than later but, its a sorry state of affairs when a 'developing country' has to downgraod to allow for a developed countries inefficient medical facilities (Sm100)

OBinFiji

opti
Optimist
22 September, 2020 07:22
As the old joke goes:
ĎExcuse me, how do you get to XYZ?í
ĎWell, i wouldnít start from hereí

gaz59
gaz59
22 September, 2020 07:51
I'm a full time carer trying to maintain a job [at least part time] with a dog that needs at least one decent walk a day

I would do best to comply but depending on what the rules are I might need to bend them whilst minimising contact with others

MESSAGES->author
jayeatman
22 September, 2020 08:09
You would hope that the testing system was at least good enough to identify local outbreaks and you could just lock down those specific areas.
If it isn't then a general lockdown might become necessary, but don't let the govt blame it on you, it'll be down to the failure of test and trace.



BATH supporter since 1975

Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
22 September, 2020 08:23
Might not test and trace issues be down to the general public giving false details and ignoring recommendations? Would you accept verification of personal details as part of the process? Not many would. Completely agree with identifying local outbreaks though.



https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
22 September, 2020 09:35
Quote:
jayeatman
You would hope that the testing system was at least good enough to identify local outbreaks and you could just lock down those specific areas.
If it isn't then a general lockdown might become necessary, but don't let the govt blame it on you, it'll be down to the failure of test and trace.

Im glad you replaced that Saffer bloke on your photo I didnt like the look of him.

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
22 September, 2020 10:12
If people abided by the rules there would be virtually no need for test and trace and anyway Covid would have "effectively" disappeared in the first lockdown.

gaz59
gaz59
22 September, 2020 10:20
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
If people abided by the rules there would be virtually no need for test and trace and anyway Covid would have "effectively" disappeared in the first lockdown.

I'm afraid that is just wrong

The vast majority of general public were very rule compliant in the first lockdown. Even surprised HMG just how much people kept to it for so long

The problem then came from other sources notably care homes

This contributed to a widespread feeling in many parts of the country that they've done their bit and it didn't work then so why bother now

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
22 September, 2020 10:30
Gaz

I am really not criticising anyone.

I voted above against a lockdown.

Some people just will not abide by the rules, reference the demonstrations against lockdown, people I know refusing to wear masks, etc

It astonished me and I suspect Public Covid England (Why do you keep writing Covid instead of "Health" you fool - Ed)

Thing is how did it get into Care Homes? Once Care homes were under control and it was eradicated (people died) then logically it should have disappeared. However unlike Fiji, Australia, New Zealand we have let people into our country and we "let" people go on holiday to Europe.

Like flu is is always going to be with us.

Witty/Vallance talk about possibly up to 200 people a day dying from Covid................well given 1,863 people die every day on average and I think one can reasonably assume that a proportion of the 200 people would be in the 1,863 I think there needs to be a major rethink................

DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy
22 September, 2020 11:48
Living in a part of the country that has largely been and still is largely unaffected, cases of 5/100,000 currently, and 742 in total amongst a population of c.379,000, then it is difficult to see any justification for a full scale lockdown again here.

Now that clearly isn't the case for other parts of the country.

wombles222
wombles222
22 September, 2020 11:52
Lockdown, unless applied to a extreme level that I commented on in the vaccine thread, only serves to reduce transmission and delay. Once eased it will naturally increase once more. It is not a fix, and although understandable as an initial response as we did in the first lockdown due to lack of knowledge of this virus, it is not a viable long term option as too much collateral damage is now occuring.

My concern with the current measures and increasing once more is that these are based upon "projections" and as the imperial model and disgraced Ferguson demonstrates they are a educated guess that may not represent reality. What we do have is hard evidence in studies showing the negative impact on morbidity and mortality in wider aspects, and I just hope they are putting their full attention to that for any judgements made rather than basing on future hypothesis & conjecture alone.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
22 September, 2020 11:59
I have worked normally through this year so have been out and about more than most in the early stages. There is no doubt that standards of distancing and hygiene have dropped dramatically in recent weeks. I have seen people in supermarkets with no masks, late at night people spilling out of pubs with no distancing. We reap what we sow.

I don't blame the govt for tightening the rules, I don't want to see businesses suffer but there is an arrogant minority who are ruining it for others.

My sister in law said to me yesterday, don't worry about the rule of 6 at Christmas, we can park in another street and the neighbours won't see us sneak up the path. What?!!! No, no, no! This from someone who has 3 shielding children. Unbelievable.

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
22 September, 2020 12:03
The new restrictions are not too bad.

I wish all of the UK & NI could have the same rules. Surely its not that hard.

DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy
22 September, 2020 12:17
Quote:
woodpecker
The new restrictions are not too bad.
I wish all of the UK & NI could have the same rules. Surely its not that hard.

But that would require the parish council leaders not playing petty politicis with the Westminster Government.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
22 September, 2020 12:17
Quote:
woodpecker
The new restrictions are not too bad.
I wish all of the UK & NI could have the same rules. Surely its not that hard.

Why should they? Some areas of the UK have hardly any cases. For example Crawley has 2 per 100,000 cases (not fatalities). To lock all 112k people down seems nuts. Liverpool with 137 cases obviously needs some work.



[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
22 September, 2020 12:21
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
woodpecker
The new restrictions are not too bad.
I wish all of the UK & NI could have the same rules. Surely its not that hard.

Why should they? Some areas of the UK have hardly any cases. For example Crawley has 2 per 100,000 cases (not fatalities). To lock all 112k people down seems nuts. Liverpool with 137 cases obviously needs some work.

Scotland has the rule of 6 for 2 households
England has the rule of 6 for any households
Wales has rule of 6 indoors not outdoors

just confuses everyone. Local pub challenged a guy I work with about households which is wrong.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
22 September, 2020 12:27
OK, so maybe clearer explanation of the rules is needed then. I'm sure they could have a postcode driven app or website where you type it in and it tells you what you are allowed. Can't be that hard, the BBC does stuff like that all the time.

...but then I think the whole thing is stupid now anyway - I agree with the scientist who said that its like the Government has a random covid panic measure button which it presses every day.

A few schools in Bath now have year groups out for 2 weeks I understand, I can see all children being off again pretty soon - all pain / boredom for no obvious benefit to them. I'm with the 'if you want to shield then go ahead and shield and leave me to it' brigade I'm afraid. I wasn't, but now I am.



[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
22 September, 2020 12:29
Quote:
woodpecker
The new restrictions are not too bad.

I think you'll find those in the hospitality industry will disagree strongly with you.

gaz59
gaz59
22 September, 2020 12:32
"Thing is how did it get into Care Homes? Once Care homes were under control and it was eradicated (people died) then logically it should have disappeared."

In my view the two main factors are, firstly it got into Care Homes from the disgraceful policy to ship patients out of hospital without testing because the system was woeful. Secondly, it then got out of care homes into wider community through staff working with inadequate or zero PPE

Both were predictable, preventable and massive failures of government not public behaviour in breach of lockdown rules

warrenball
warrenball
22 September, 2020 12:49
I think the main reason why people are now bending or ignoring the rules more than they did in the Spring comes from the way the original lockdown was sold by the government. When the lockdown came we were told it was for a minimum of 6 weeks to help the hospitals, then this was extended by a further period, but (and this is crucial) all along there was talk of herd immunity, then vaccines as the magic bullet, so most people thought we may need to live with this for a few weeks and then get back on with our lives.

Looking at China, we saw a lockdown, quickly followed by companies re-opening and businesses working more or less as normal. It looked around the world as if it was a time limited problem and would go away a bit like SARS 20 years ago. We had all seen the failure of the annual scientific doomsday predictions from the millennium bug to mad cow disease and thought this would just come and go so we were happy to go along with the interesting experiment of a world returning to an earlier age without many cars or planes.

Recently it has become obvious firstly that the scientific and health 'experts' are not really that expert after all, that the effects on the economy are mind boggling and the virus is going to be with us for the long term, with or without a vaccine and most people have a life to live. If you are young the prospect of very limited social life is unthinkable, if you are old you do not want to spend the last few years locked away and scared.

I will keep to the government rules, but I live in the country, on a farm, run my own business which is not greatly affected by Covid and never really bothered that much about holidays so I am not making any great sacrifices, but if I had small children and lived in a small flat that would be a completely different matter.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
22 September, 2020 12:59
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
woodpecker
The new restrictions are not too bad.

I think you'll find those in the hospitality industry will disagree strongly with you.

I think a 10pm closure is ok. It is however on top of everything else they have to do.

The trouble is a pub in a village serving meals to sensible customers and doing it's best to observe precautions is being let down by city centre pubs whose prime role is to get as many youngsters as drunk as possible. I drove through my local high street last Saturday at midnight and I can see why the 10pm curfew could help and why the infection rate is higher in under 25s.

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
22 September, 2020 13:02
I agree Gaz

But as I understand it there is no Covid in Care Homes now.............which of course leads to all sorts of other problems but lets not go into them here..................and the "criminal" decision to take old people out of hospital and put them in Care Homes will not be repeated............

So Care Homes are not in the equation................coupled with loads of testing, proper PPE, not to protect the staff but to protect the clients.

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
22 September, 2020 13:17
Hmm pub shuts at 10.....bang goes the weekend lie in.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
22 September, 2020 13:40
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
woodpecker
The new restrictions are not too bad.

I think you'll find those in the hospitality industry will disagree strongly with you.

I think a 10pm closure is ok. It is however on top of everything else they have to do.

The trouble is a pub in a village serving meals to sensible customers and doing it's best to observe precautions is being let down by city centre pubs whose prime role is to get as many youngsters as drunk as possible. I drove through my local high street last Saturday at midnight and I can see why the 10pm curfew could help and why the infection rate is higher in under 25s.

Do you not think the under 25's will just get drunk earlier thereby negating any benefit of closing at 10pm? Also they'll just leave the pub at 10pm and go to one of their houses to continue drinking.

It's a restriction thought up by someone who doesn't understand how the general public socialise.

DanWiley
DanWiley
22 September, 2020 14:19
I think there a strong chance we're just increasing the density of people in our pubs, which is the exact opposite of what we want to do. I can't see the actual hour less itself makes much difference in terms of contact. Maybe the idea is people don't get into close social contact on the way home, but as said above, they'll just neck more quicker or turn up earlier.

If the kids can go to school I can't really see what it is achieving? The evidence seems to suggest there isn't much of an issue with kids at school, other countries sent their kids back (and some never stopped them) and there's been no major impact.


It strikes me as Boris doing something so that when the cases naturally drop he can say it was all him. Cases in Spain, I think the first country to see this "casedemic", continue to drop:

[www.worldometers.info]

opti
Optimist
22 September, 2020 14:26
Just googled something i'd been meaning to look up for a while: 'what %age of the population has an 'underlying condition'' .... if i'm reading it right 20)30264-3/fulltext#seccestitle160">it's as much as 31% in Europe - which means that telling 'anyone who is at increased risk of severe Covid to just stay home' isn't really practicable.

DanWiley
DanWiley
22 September, 2020 14:34
Increased risk is a broad term, but whilst you might have an increased risk with asthma, I'd say to someone with mild asthma be particularly careful with hygiene, if you've very asthmatic you much closer to staying in full time but there's still times when you're probably safe*. If you're very asthmatic, over 80 and have an otherwise compromised immune system, I'd stay in full time and absolutely minimise interactions. Mind you, you probably want to do that anyway.

It's about understanding the risk and living accordingly.

* I do think having a period of the day when moderately vulnerable people have exclusive access to the shops (for instance) might be good idea. We had that previously and its dropped by the wayside because we're trying to restrict everyone, so everyone's in that category.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
22 September, 2020 14:38
The Government identified 2.2 million people who were CEV (clinically extremely vulnerable). The 'moderately vulnerable' category (which is a huge %) includes lots of people with lots of not particularly covid sensitive ailments from what I could see.



[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

opti
Optimist
22 September, 2020 14:43
Sounds sensible Dan. Given that 'second wave' is something that's been talked about from the very start, and that it was always anticipated as being in this period, it's beyond belief that there isn't a coherent, oven-ready plan ready to roll out.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
22 September, 2020 14:47
Quote:
OutsideBath

It's a restriction thought up by someone who doesn't understand how the general public socialise.

You could well be right but equally it has been thought up by someone who is sending the message that people need to take heed of the warnings or it will get a lot more severe. It is a shot across the bows of people who don't give a damn and need to change.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
22 September, 2020 15:03
Quote:
Optimist
Sounds sensible Dan. Given that 'second wave' is something that's been talked about from the very start, and that it was always anticipated as being in this period, it's beyond belief that there isn't a coherent, oven-ready plan ready to roll out.

Thats the whole point Opti there are few therapies and no vaccine, the only plan is stay out of its way.



https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

DanWiley
DanWiley
22 September, 2020 15:11
Or get on with it if it's not going to trouble you.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
22 September, 2020 15:17
My local club has been running its first few Sundays of mini and junior training and I will be paying my son's subs again despite the risks of another lock down. Just seems the right thing to do otherwise they might not be there long term. Hopefully our low local rates will stay that way. Plenty of Sunday morning jokes about disinfected balls.

MESSAGES->author
jayeatman
22 September, 2020 15:39
Several early calamitous govt decisions made our death rate the worst in the world:
1. Confused policy leading to late lockdown
2. Failure to build PPE stocks, subsequent shortage of PPE making hospitals hotspots.
3. Exporting cases to care homes
4. Abandoning test and trace

One would hope that 'lessons have been learned' so that no matter what happens the second wave will be nowhere near as bad as the first.

I am baffled by the current situation with test and trace.
If you go for a test why would you give false details? You'd never discover the result! So why on earth are they contacting less than 80% of those testing positive?
Contact tracing is clearly more difficult: you maybe don't want to self-isolate on the chance that you might be infected and if you have no symptoms, you now can't get a test.

For those with doctorates in hindsight, it's obvious that if you:
1. Encourage people to 'eat out to help out' for a month
2. Go back to school
3. Go back to the office
4. Go back to Uni
all at the same time AND just as Autumn starts, you might trigger a second wave.



BATH supporter since 1975

Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
22 September, 2020 22:56
Quote:
jayeatman
Several early calamitous govt decisions made our death rate the worst in the world:
1. Confused policy leading to late lockdown
2. Failure to build PPE stocks, subsequent shortage of PPE making hospitals hotspots.
3. Exporting cases to care homes
4. Abandoning test and trace


That's not true actually the death rate and the case rate are not directly connected.

Factors such as demographics specifically ethnic make up and % of the elderly play a part but there is an emerging indication that a specific variant of the virus ORF3b that has a longer protein chain than normal that causes the severe cases that so often lead to death. The distribution of that variant is greater in Europe than the Americas and accounts for the higher European death rate.

The number of cases in the world is considerably higher in the Americas. If the variant in Europe had the same distribution in the US the death rate would not be 200,000 but more like 750,000. No models, just applying recorded data.

Of course if you decrease the number of cases that saves lives thats where PPE, therapies, test and trace etc. play a part.



https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

OBinFiji
OBinFiji
23 September, 2020 01:23
"You lucky, lucky ............ 'people'" - to paraphrase Life of Brian.

We had a full curfew (with military in force) from 10pm to 6am - which meant we had to be home by 10pm. Every morning there was a roll call in the media of the number caught breaking the curfew (including several international rugby players).
We still have an 11pm to 4am curfew but, as Outside B suggests, this now encourages youngsters to drink until they're allowed to go back home when the curfew has finished. Makes for some noisy early mornings.

OBinFiji

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
23 September, 2020 06:27
Quote:
OBinFiji
"You lucky, lucky ............ 'people'" - to paraphrase Life of Brian.
We had a full curfew (with military in force) from 10pm to 6am - which meant we had to be home by 10pm. Every morning there was a roll call in the media of the number caught breaking the curfew (including several international rugby players).
We still have an 11pm to 4am curfew but, as Outside B suggests, this now encourages youngsters to drink until they're allowed to go back home when the curfew has finished. Makes for some noisy early mornings.

OBinFiji

That a significant difference in the UK, thanks to funding cuts I donít think Wiltshire has a police force anymore. Havenít seen a police officer for years so not sure how theyíre going to catch anyone.

Having said that I donít feel particularly lucky as we now have lockdown for at least another 6 months. I say at least because Johnson has spouted his over optimistic guff from day 1, so lockdown is more likely for 9-12 months.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
23 September, 2020 07:07
This isn't a lockdown like before though is it? Just a tightening of the rules. If we don't stick to the rules then a full lockdown could follow. We have a collective responsibility to avoid that. The government will be held to account for how it has performed at a later date, in the meantime we should tow the line or else. We can still socialise in small numbers, the pubs and restaurants are still open where they can be.

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
23 September, 2020 07:13
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
woodpecker
The new restrictions are not too bad.
I wish all of the UK & NI could have the same rules. Surely its not that hard.

Why should they? Some areas of the UK have hardly any cases. For example Crawley has 2 per 100,000 cases (not fatalities). To lock all 112k people down seems nuts. Liverpool with 137 cases obviously needs some work.

Well, you can guarantee that Scotland will adopt the UK lockdown with an additional Scottish measure (using UK taxpayer money) so Sturgeon can look like she's doing something

I'm hesitant to drag anyone down but I'm not sure that assymetric economic damage that disproportionately affects poorer areas is necessarily the best recipe for long-term stability. Even though cases are low in my borough.

Sometimes we just have to make sacrifices so that others aren't ruined. Likewise the number of lockdown-sceptics who won't countenance any measure that might stop us entering a second lockdown...

John Tee
John Tee
26 September, 2020 08:57
I'm going to say no, if the deaths are low. The cost is too high and we cant carry on doing this.
Everyone is affected, even if Covid is nowhere near their lives.

Industries are being decimated, such as events and anything that requires 60/70% attendence for breakeven might not survive a few more months.
That means Sports and, Arts and then you have Travel..
Throw is the general health of the Nation and there will be thd tipping point where we cant afford the subsidies.

At that time, people will question whether we should have bothered at all...

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
26 September, 2020 13:46
Something like 25% of the country now under lockdown, looks like government will use increasing number of local lockdowns to get the whole country in lockdown around the October school holidays.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
29 September, 2020 08:30
Quote:
OutsideBath
Something like 25% of the country now under lockdown, looks like government will use increasing number of local lockdowns to get the whole country in lockdown around the October school holidays.

Yes there is talk of extending the 1/2 term to 2 weeks in order to get everyone 'quarantined' without missing school.



[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

DanWiley
DanWiley
29 September, 2020 08:40
If we're going to send kids back to school, and I think we should, I think we just need to let it happen. If nothing else is still better they get it now than in December/January. But this indecisive, knee jerk approach is doing more harm than good.

The flip side of it is it will go through our schools very quickly, and through adults of a parenting age, but then we'll be in a much better position.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
29 September, 2020 08:43
Quote:
DanWiley
If we're going to send kids back to school, and I think we should, I think we just need to let it happen. If nothing else is still better they get it now than in December/January. But this indecisive, knee jerk approach is doing more harm than good.
The flip side of it is it will go through our schools very quickly, and through adults of a parenting age, but then we'll be in a much better position.

I agree with that, I'm unclear where the infections are with schools staff or pupils. Former I think.



https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
29 September, 2020 09:59
I really think that the students are seriously overreacting.

So they quarantine for 14 days, getting on with their work and then they come out of lockdown by mid October.......................and the problem is?

DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy
29 September, 2020 10:48
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
I really think that the students are seriously overreacting.
So they quarantine for 14 days, getting on with their work and then they come out of lockdown by mid October.......................and the problem is?

1. If they're stuck in a hall of residence with no bar
2. They have to go into repeated lockdowns
3. They're paying for face to face tuition, not remote learning

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
29 September, 2020 10:53
Quote:
Dorset Boy
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
I really think that the students are seriously overreacting.
So they quarantine for 14 days, getting on with their work and then they come out of lockdown by mid October.......................and the problem is?

1. If they're stuck in a hall of residence with no bar
2. They have to go into repeated lockdowns
3. They're paying for face to face tuition, not remote learning

...and paying for Halls of Residence but having lessons on a screen that they could have done from home for this term and saved the cash.



[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
29 September, 2020 10:54
Here's what the students should do:

Get out of their cells and mix and party between now and end November. Do not leave the campus and/or University facilities, stay away from external friends family, DO NOT GO HOME.

At risk, sorry you need to shield and be on line.

Go home at Christmas after quarantining from about first week in December.

These people are going to be the last in line for a vaccine, there's no way they'll get anything before July so what are they supposed to do get locked up for 10 months.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 29/09/2020 10:58 by woodpecker.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
29 September, 2020 11:00
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
OutsideBath
Something like 25% of the country now under lockdown, looks like government will use increasing number of local lockdowns to get the whole country in lockdown around the October school holidays.

Yes there is talk of extending the 1/2 term to 2 weeks in order to get everyone 'quarantined' without missing school.

I think we're already up to 16m people in lockdown so it appears Boris really is going for full national lockdown by stealth.

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
29 September, 2020 11:06
Yes but its 2 weeks out of 3 - 4 years

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
29 September, 2020 11:36
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
Yes but its 2 weeks out of 3 - 4 years

Not sure what you mean by 3 - 4 years?

gaz59
gaz59
29 September, 2020 13:56
I would love to see the Johnson and Cummings answer to the poll question. Under lie detector conditions

Actually, forget that last bit. You won't need a lie detector

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
29 September, 2020 15:48
There seems to be a growing perception that the government is personally responsible for everything virus related. Just to point out that we, the general population are spreading the virus, not the politicians. Usually through not following what the scientists told us to do.

The idea that we can ignore rules and do what we damn well like and then deflect the blame to someone else (the politicians) is gaining ground.

I accept that the rules have become a complicated mess right now but the basics of avoiding COVID haven't really changed.

MESSAGES->author
hasta
29 September, 2020 15:57
I suspect that's due to the politicians telling people it was their duty to get out and enjoy summer, to go back to work and to get tested if they had any suspicion. People were following the rules and the guidance.

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
29 September, 2020 16:33
BJ and team playing a blinder today the bumbling halfwits...

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
29 September, 2020 16:55
Quote:
woodpecker
BJ and team playing a blinder today the bumbling halfwits...

They've been doing that pretty much from day 1, unfortunately though we can't get shot of them for some years.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
29 September, 2020 17:17
Quote:
hasta
I suspect that's due to the politicians telling people it was their duty to get out and enjoy summer, to go back to work and to get tested if they had any suspicion. People were following the rules and the guidance.

I don't recall any rules that said I must go into town or down to the packed beach, get drunk and ignore all other advice.

We had 10 days in Devon and Cornwall, kept away from busy looking shops and cafes, it isn't that difficult. Contrast that with all the TV pictures during the summer.

The govt advice is messed up and now too complicated but that does not excuse a total lack of common sense by some of the public.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
29 September, 2020 17:25
All this criticism of young people for not totally following the rules. Do you not remember when you were young and feeling invincible? Did you not reject authority figures because you knew better?

The price they are being asked to pay by lockdown Johnson and his crew is too much.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
29 September, 2020 17:38
This is unprecedented though. If I went into town at 18 and got drunk it wouldn't have killed my grandmother.

I don't want to be seen as defending the govt for everything, they have lost the plot and lost the changing room in sporting terms. I am just pointing out that public behaviour is not helping, it is driving the decisions.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
29 September, 2020 17:38
Agree BB, its becoming a feature now blame someone else rather than take personal responsibility.

The actual rules are not clear because they vary so much but the principle is clear isn't it? Don't mix outside your circle and social distance.

Why does everyone need to be told what to do as well? It's all just third party blame in my view.



https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
29 September, 2020 17:40
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
Yes but its 2 weeks out of 3 - 4 years

Not sure what you mean by 3 - 4 years?

Most courses are 3 or 4 year courses.



https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

DanWiley
DanWiley
29 September, 2020 17:40
Let's be honest as soon as DC popped off to Barnard castle, and the pm did nothing to reprimand him, their ability to tell anyone, young or old, was shot. If you are that bothered by those things it still all started with Boris and Dom. Until then we were pretty well behaved.

I would say though all those going to the beach, pub and doing many other things in the last few months, has made no real difference. The end of the summer and sending kids back to school seems to be the thing as far as I can see. The latter I agree with, the former I struggle to blame on Boris.

What I do blame him for is us going though all the anxiety and restriction needlessly. He's created that environment.

DanWiley
DanWiley
29 September, 2020 17:46
"Don't mix outside your circle and social distance."

My circle includes several hundred school children and, in practical terms, their parents. I don't spend much time less than a metre from anyone outside my family. On that basis I've been doing it for decades.

Looking at the minor bugs and colds knocking around my kids years at school whatever they are doing is rather ineffective at stopping the transmission of illness.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
29 September, 2020 18:04
Quote:
shipwrecked
Agree BB, its becoming a feature now blame someone else rather than take personal responsibility.
The actual rules are not clear because they vary so much but the principle is clear isn't it? Don't mix outside your circle and social distance.

Why does everyone need to be told what to do as well? It's all just third party blame in my view.

I believe the young are fully aware of the rules, but being young theyíre not too bothered. You are think like someone with a lifetimes experience and forgetting what being a teenager was like.

Their future has been totally wiped out so being lectured by a bunch of old scientists to stay at home on their own isnít going to be listened to. Quite frankly I really donít blame them.

JFPC
JFPC
29 September, 2020 18:16
Also, in regards to the young, their future has already been damned by older generations and the science has been fairly well ignored by both politicians and older generations.

Who on here can honestly say they've done their fair share in regards to environmental issues?

Yet here are older generations expecting the young to make even more sacrifices whilst making next to no effort themselves.

I'm surprised the young have behaved as well as they have for so long.



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley. Weird split household co-parented
player 2020 Josh Matavesi

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
29 September, 2020 20:09
Geez.....don't lecture the older generations about sacrifices. COVID has lasted what, 6 months so far? WW2, around 5 years plus years more of post war recovery.

No freshers week? What suffering.

Seriously though, I do understand our govt is struggling and jobs are being trashed but it is too early to write off a generation.

JFPC
JFPC
29 September, 2020 20:39
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Geez.....don't lecture the older generations about sacrifices. COVID has lasted what, 6 months so far? WW2, around 5 years plus years more of post war recovery.
No freshers week? What suffering.

Seriously though, I do understand our govt is struggling and jobs are being trashed but it is too early to write off a generation.

Many on here over the age of 85? If not you (and I) know nothing of sacrifice and if you'd managed to think about it you'd realise that the sacrifice of the young is only just starting. 5 years? They'll be paying for this for 55 years or more whilst dealing with the effects of environmental degradation that all preceding generations have (increasingly knowingly) contributed to.



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley. Weird split household co-parented
player 2020 Josh Matavesi

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
29 September, 2020 20:55
Quote:
JFPC
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Geez.....don't lecture the older generations about sacrifices. COVID has lasted what, 6 months so far? WW2, around 5 years plus years more of post war recovery.
No freshers week? What suffering.

Seriously though, I do understand our govt is struggling and jobs are being trashed but it is too early to write off a generation.

Many on here over the age of 85? If not you (and I) know nothing of sacrifice and if you'd managed to think about it you'd realise that the sacrifice of the young is only just starting. 5 years? They'll be paying for this for 55 years or more whilst dealing with the effects of environmental degradation that all preceding generations have (increasingly knowingly) contributed to.

I agree on the environment, interestingly I was just thinking of posting a comment on the Super 16 thread about how it seems an odd time to start flying club teams between continents but decided I had been on my high horse enough for now.

There have been press comments about how long it took to recover from war years and comparisons with COVID. You pays your money and takes your choice. Debt or health.

JFPC
JFPC
29 September, 2020 21:13
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Quote:
JFPC
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Geez.....don't lecture the older generations about sacrifices. COVID has lasted what, 6 months so far? WW2, around 5 years plus years more of post war recovery.
No freshers week? What suffering.

Seriously though, I do understand our govt is struggling and jobs are being trashed but it is too early to write off a generation.

Many on here over the age of 85? If not you (and I) know nothing of sacrifice and if you'd managed to think about it you'd realise that the sacrifice of the young is only just starting. 5 years? They'll be paying for this for 55 years or more whilst dealing with the effects of environmental degradation that all preceding generations have (increasingly knowingly) contributed to.

I agree on the environment, interestingly I was just thinking of posting a comment on the Super 16 thread about how it seems an odd time to start flying club teams between continents but decided I had been on my high horse enough for now.

There have been press comments about how long it took to recover from war years and comparisons with COVID. You pays your money and takes your choice. Debt or health.

Except it isn't their choice, they get the debt and (generally) those over the retirement age get the health.



Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley. Weird split household co-parented
player 2020 Josh Matavesi

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
29 September, 2020 21:49
Quote:
JFPC
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Quote:
JFPC
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Geez.....don't lecture the older generations about sacrifices. COVID has lasted what, 6 months so far? WW2, around 5 years plus years more of post war recovery.
No freshers week? What suffering.

Seriously though, I do understand our govt is struggling and jobs are being trashed but it is too early to write off a generation.

Many on here over the age of 85? If not you (and I) know nothing of sacrifice and if you'd managed to think about it you'd realise that the sacrifice of the young is only just starting. 5 years? They'll be paying for this for 55 years or more whilst dealing with the effects of environmental degradation that all preceding generations have (increasingly knowingly) contributed to.

I agree on the environment, interestingly I was just thinking of posting a comment on the Super 16 thread about how it seems an odd time to start flying club teams between continents but decided I had been on my high horse enough for now.

There have been press comments about how long it took to recover from war years and comparisons with COVID. You pays your money and takes your choice. Debt or health.

Except it isn't their choice, they get the debt and (generally) those over the retirement age get the health.

You don't have to have fought in the second World War to have been effected by it. My generation paid for it. Did it destroy my youth? The last payment was in 2006.

To be honest I'm not sure how you want people to respond to that post. Who are you blaming? No generation is going to get a free ride.

If its the environment that's the point then this government are committed electric cars, Boris has spoken of turning the UK into the Saudi Arabia of wind power and a focus on renewables. Also taking of developing carbon capture technology. That agenda is being addressed with even China jumping on the environmental bandwagon. Nowhere near perfect and plastic is a massive issue but I can assure you abusing the environment happens with the younger generation as well, they are not all in the mould of Greta Thunberg.

If its Covid then yes, we need to live with debt for years but when borrowing at 0% in 20 years, which we will all share that sum will be much less foreboding. Its not as though everyone under 25 will be on 70% tax.

All very noble fighting for the kids but even if its tough for 6 months is that really a massive hardship?
They are not exclusively being quarantined after all.

I'm not trying to be provocative but is it as bad as its being portrayed?



https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
30 September, 2020 07:22
Quote:
shipwrecked
All very noble fighting for the kids but even if its tough for 6 months is that really a massive hardship?
They are not exclusively being quarantined after all.

I'm not trying to be provocative but is it as bad as its being portrayed?

SW the lockdown restrictions have already been in place for 6 months with Johnson indicating at least another 6 months so yes it is as bad as being portrayed.

By the time lockdown Johnson has finished the under 25ís will have no job and no future to look forward to. For them this is a pointless exercise that will leave them jobless after years of preventing them from enjoying themselves.

OBinFiji
OBinFiji
30 September, 2020 08:04
Outside Bath you are Frankie Boyles New World Order sketch writer. I claim my five pounds.

OBinFiji

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
30 September, 2020 08:10
Could I just clarify something on the debt issue.

Certainly, for the time being, we seem able to borrow at very very low rates.

However when the debt matures in 10, 15 and 20 years...............it will not be repaid but the Debt Management Office will look to rollover into new debt.

The critical issues will be (i) can that be done and, (ii) at what rate.

If rates are 3% or 5%, a more sensible historic rate then suddenly the cost of servicing this mountain of debt will be.......................A LOT!

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
30 September, 2020 08:30
Quote:
OBinFiji
Outside Bath you are Frankie Boyles New World Order sketch writer. I claim my five pounds.
OBinFiji

Sorry Iím sure itís an insult, but youíve totally lost me with that one.

gaz59
gaz59
30 September, 2020 09:21
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
OBinFiji
Outside Bath you are Frankie Boyles New World Order sketch writer. I claim my five pounds.
OBinFiji

Sorry Iím sure itís an insult, but youíve totally lost me with that one.

Check out Jim Corr
[www.stopworldcontrol.com]

annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn
30 September, 2020 09:35
Does anyone understand and can explain what the heck is going on?

Now utterly given up all hope that the government (that's a joke for a start) has a united strategy to outwit the spread and social damage of the virus, and also minimise the disastrous downturn to the economy. How many of us have received the NHS TestnTrace app as a text and just ignored it?

So depressing.

TomReagan
TomReagan
30 September, 2020 11:10
Over my head too OB, but I'd be happy to be accused of being a writer for a good comedian and your namesake in Fiji is usually a kind poster so i don't think there's much of an insult there (but could be wrong!).

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
30 September, 2020 12:32
Might want to give Coventry a wide berth for a few weeks. I am going to hazard a guess that these were gatecrashers and not students.

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

DanWiley
DanWiley
30 September, 2020 12:40
"Up to 200 students at Coventry University have been filmed at a rave, ignoring social distancing"

Raves have changed since my day.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
30 September, 2020 13:24
Quote:
gaz59
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
OBinFiji
Outside Bath you are Frankie Boyles New World Order sketch writer. I claim my five pounds.
OBinFiji

Sorry Iím sure itís an insult, but youíve totally lost me with that one.

Check out Jim Corr
[www.stopworldcontrol.com]

Well thatís just rubbish, I have never suggested itís a planned event. Just donít believe in lockdown.

gaz59
gaz59
30 September, 2020 14:34
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
gaz59
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
OBinFiji
Outside Bath you are Frankie Boyles New World Order sketch writer. I claim my five pounds.
OBinFiji

Sorry Iím sure itís an insult, but youíve totally lost me with that one.

Check out Jim Corr
[www.stopworldcontrol.com]

Well thatís just rubbish, I have never suggested itís a planned event. Just donít believe in lockdown.

Sure, which is why TomR suggested it wasn't an insult, probably only a bit of humour

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
01 October, 2020 09:24
So in the Poll 52% are against a second lockdown..................

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
01 October, 2020 09:55
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
So in the Poll 52% are against a second lockdown..................

But 80% will follow it if it happened.

On the BBC there was a survey following last night's briefing after the results were presented on local lockdown the presenter said that a significant proportion of people interviewed thought that the measures didn't go far enough.

Second lockdown would be a massive decision economically dwarfing the jobs discussion elsewhere.



https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
01 October, 2020 09:59
Yes SW. Although on social media those shouting loudest are demanding the end of restrictions about 60% want more!

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
01 October, 2020 10:03
Quote:
woodpecker
Yes SW. Although on social media those shouting loudest are demanding the end of restrictions about 60% want more!

I'd vote for autocracy........... are you allowed to do that though? (Sm55) (Sm56) confused smiley



https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
01 October, 2020 10:07
There is one argument of the most vociferous anti-restriction camp that doesnt work. We should get on with it, relax restrictions..........and treat cancer and non covid patients.

Admissions are running at over 400 per day for covid now, it won't take much relaxation to start signficantly impacting what the NHS can do, in a normal year it starts to fall over by December.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
01 October, 2020 10:08
Well its all gone stricter in Northern England.



https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
01 October, 2020 10:22
I saw a map earlier of the infections and its strking how there's nothing much going on in the south except a bit in London.

BJ is going to struggle with his leveling up the north if he keeps closing it down.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
01 October, 2020 10:22
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
So in the Poll 52% are against a second lockdown..................

If this was reflected across the country I doubt lockdown Johnson would take any notice.

Will be interesting to see if the level of compliance once he fully locks down the country is as high as during the first wave.

Will he get away with lockdown once the third wave gets going?

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
01 October, 2020 10:30
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
So in the Poll 52% are against a second lockdown..................

If this was reflected across the country I doubt lockdown Johnson would take any notice.

Will be interesting to see if the level of compliance once he fully locks down the country is as high as during the first wave.

Will he get away with lockdown once the third wave gets going?

Basically non-compliance just prolongs the lockdowns. My background reading indicates compliance fatigue is not limited to the the UK, (eg Germany).

"Will he get away with lockdown" do you think BJ is doing this for fun OB?



https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
01 October, 2020 10:39
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
So in the Poll 52% are against a second lockdown..................

If this was reflected across the country I doubt lockdown Johnson would take any notice.

Will be interesting to see if the level of compliance once he fully locks down the country is as high as during the first wave.

Will he get away with lockdown once the third wave gets going?

Basically non-compliance just prolongs the lockdowns. My background reading indicates compliance fatigue is not limited to the the UK, (eg Germany).

"Will he get away with lockdown" do you think BJ is doing this for fun OB?

Fun, No. Blind panic, Yes

As each day goes by Boris is just proving what many had thought during the GE, he is just not fit for purpose.

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
01 October, 2020 11:00
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
So in the Poll 52% are against a second lockdown..................

If this was reflected across the country I doubt lockdown Johnson would take any notice.

Will be interesting to see if the level of compliance once he fully locks down the country is as high as during the first wave.

Will he get away with lockdown once the third wave gets going?

Basically non-compliance just prolongs the lockdowns. My background reading indicates compliance fatigue is not limited to the the UK, (eg Germany).

"Will he get away with lockdown" do you think BJ is doing this for fun OB?

Fun, No. Blind panic, Yes

As each day goes by Boris is just proving what many had thought during the GE, he is just not fit for purpose.

Poor old BJ, used to get £275k pa for writing a weekly article for The Telegraph, now gets £150K for presiding over this $hit show.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
01 October, 2020 12:30
Quote:
woodpecker
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
So in the Poll 52% are against a second lockdown..................

If this was reflected across the country I doubt lockdown Johnson would take any notice.

Will be interesting to see if the level of compliance once he fully locks down the country is as high as during the first wave.

Will he get away with lockdown once the third wave gets going?

Basically non-compliance just prolongs the lockdowns. My background reading indicates compliance fatigue is not limited to the the UK, (eg Germany).

"Will he get away with lockdown" do you think BJ is doing this for fun OB?

Fun, No. Blind panic, Yes

As each day goes by Boris is just proving what many had thought during the GE, he is just not fit for purpose.

Poor old BJ, used to get £275k pa for writing a weekly article for The Telegraph, now gets £150K for presiding over this $hit show.

Boris is paid as much as that!, heís clearly overpaid then.

With any luck he will be made unemployed soon in the same way he has consigned huge numbers in the hospitality and travel industries to long term unemployment.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
01 October, 2020 12:42
OB all very rebellious but what other option is there? You are a bit of cake and eat it.
Second wave is here, despite people saying it was a myth. How do you control it without some sort of lockdown. What alternative is there? Everyone in Europe is following a similar path. There is similar compliance fatigue, (cf Germany). What is your masterplan that we have failed to follow?



https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

DanWiley
DanWiley
01 October, 2020 12:50
I would take a clear, consistent, logical approach over what we've got which is anything but.

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