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Poll: View From the 22 -
Discussion started by Powick Eastander (IP Logged), 23 July, 2019 14:48
MESSAGES->author
Powick Eastander
23 July, 2019 14:48

Does ComeOnYouWarriors move to VFT22

Poll results

ResponseVotesBreakdownPercentage
Yes 31
 
65.96 %
Happy to use both 0 0.00 %
Not bothered 5
 
10.64 %
Wait and see for a while 4
 
8.51 %
No Stay put 7
 
14.89 %

47 Votes

You have not voted yet

Second attempt with the left out answer now added (Sm141)



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg Warriors Rugby Supporters Club http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2019 23:49 by Faithful_City.

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
23 July, 2019 17:14
Lindsay, thanks very much for the amended format.

Initially I was in favour of staying with SN, but what I’ve seen of VFT22 has persuaded me to vote in favour of a move. I’d much prefer to see a consensus amongst the regular posters here, and a decision to move, rather than split activity as in the days when we had an offie forum.

The issue that sells VFT22 to me is the ease of switching between all clubs, including the external ones, something unavailable elsewhere, and the availability of search, something I’ve missed on here since it stopped working.

I’d encourage others to at least have a look, and note that as well as Glaws (Shedweb) both Quins and Sale boards are now essentially inactive on SN.

Tigers and Irish are also looking at this issue actively.

[forum.viewfromthe22.com]

MESSAGES->author
Powick Eastander
24 July, 2019 07:13
Will leave this open for a week and then see how the land lies.



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg Warriors Rugby Supporters Club http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg

MESSAGES->author
Faithful_City
24 July, 2019 07:25
My suggestion is for people to use VFT22 and test it out for themselves for several weeks

Search, send PM's, move around from club to club, bookmark, follow, add links to web pages/images, import images/files.

It is different and will feel a little exciting but before we all move, which could kill off SN - no move back.

Give it a work out. I have gone on there and i certainly like several aspects but there are others i don't like. Usually there is only me or at the most 3 people on there, how will it cope when there are over 100 at the same time reading and posting. How will it cope when the database has mIllion's of postings/threads.

It needs to be used in anger to test it out.

JP

MESSAGES->author
Faithful_City
24 July, 2019 07:50
You will have to log in every day to do anything on the site it does not remember you more than 23hrs 59mins.

Its a pain but not a show stopper for me.

JP

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
24 July, 2019 08:09
If I understand you correctly JP, you’re saying that the “keep me logged in” setting will expire after 23hrs 59mins?

I registered and first logged in 20/07, (safari on iPad) clicked the “Keep me logged in” button, and bookmarked it, and have not had to re-log in at all since. But I’ve probably not left a gap of 23/59 between uses.

I’ve now just logged in on iPhone (not that I’ll usually use the phone to browse) for the first time, obviously wasn't logged in, and only had to use the touch i/d fingerprint to get in. (Apple keychain provided the login and password), and now I’ll close that tab on the phone, and not try again until 24hrs have passed.

Will report back on that issue.

23Shark
23Shark
24 July, 2019 08:17
I'm not sure the 23h 59m is correct as I've been logged in for weeks now on both my phone and laptop without logging back in, might be a setting on your phone?

MESSAGES->author
Faithful_City
24 July, 2019 08:36
It was on my phone, ipad, my wife's iPad my iMac, they all logged me out and had to login each morning or the first time i use the site.

JP

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
24 July, 2019 08:45
I wonder if it’s an Apple keychain/settings thing?

Those of us who prefer Apple sometimes say ‘it just works”, but It does so in its’ own, sometime mysterious, fashion.

MESSAGES->author
Faithful_City
24 July, 2019 09:04
No because other sites I go to they remember me and automatically log me in including SN

It is definitely site specific.

TT do you have any problems have you had to re-log in at any time.

Once I have logged in if I switch off or reboot before 23:59GMT it remembers me. If I don’t log out and just move away or close internet and come back at 00:01GMT i have to log back in on all my hardware.

A38
A38
24 July, 2019 09:10
First failure: I have managed a duplicate post on Vft22!

But I too had to re-log in having registered yesterday.

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
24 July, 2019 09:42
Quote:
Faithful_City
No because other sites I go to they remember me and automatically log me in including SN
It is definitely site specific.

TT do you have any problems have you had to re-log in at any time.

Once I have logged in if I switch off or reboot before 23:59GMT it remembers me. If I don’t log out and just move away or close internet and come back at 00:01GMT i have to log back in on all my hardware.

No re-logons needed up to current time.

Maybe I misunderstood your first comment.

I took it that the re-logon was needed after a delay of 23:59 hrs, but now it reads as though it’s an “after-midnight” calendar event.

MESSAGES->author
Faithful_City
24 July, 2019 09:53
Yep that's the one Ted

23Shark
23Shark
24 July, 2019 09:58
Not too sure then, it's set to never expire and it only seems to be an issue on Apple devices?

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
24 July, 2019 10:39
Quote:
23Shark
Not too sure then, it's set to never expire and it only seems to be an issue on Apple devices?

Not on mine so far. (iPad /Mac anyway.)

All cloud settings active, not that I see why that should have anything to do with anything.

Phone will be tested tomorrow 09:15ish.

MikeGC
MikeGC
24 July, 2019 13:25
Quote:
Faithful_City
You will have to log in every day to do anything on the site it does not remember you more than 23hrs 59mins.
Its a pain but not a show stopper for me.

JP

This isn't my experience.
Currently logged on at my work PC. I logged on here on the day Andy signed me into the Sale page and haven't had to log in again since (at least a few weeks).
Similarly, I joined at home on my iPad weeks ago and haven't had to re-log in.

I wonder whether it's something odd in "settings"

MESSAGES->author
Faithful_City
24 July, 2019 15:46
I do use an add blocker and anti-virus software.

However i do not have thes logon problems with any other site, so i will put it down to the way phpbb remember you.

JP

Brummagem Bertie
Brummagem Bertie
24 July, 2019 19:22
From what others are reporting JP, it doesn't seem like it's a phpbb/VFT22 issue, but your end. Is there something in Apple security settings similar to some browsers, where you only stay logged in to "trusted" sites and if you don't designate a site as trusted it logs you out? I don't know anything about Apple OS so I'm only guessing.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

Chris1850
Chris1850
24 July, 2019 20:59
I have been logged in and remained logged in for a couple of weeks on Android phone, Android tablet and Macbbok Pro. Android devices using Adblocker browser, MacBook using Chrome with Ad block extension

MESSAGES->author
Faithful_City
24 July, 2019 21:24
If that is the case BB then it is not user friendly, I do not have this problem with any other site and I can assure you i go to many many sites.

JP

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
24 July, 2019 21:53
Appreciate you have a problem JP, but at the moment it appears that you’re the only one with the issue.

I’m not convinced that it’s a credible argument to blame the site, given that others on a mix of devices and browsers are all reporting no issues with re-logins.

23Shark
23Shark
24 July, 2019 22:54
It's quite clearly not a site issue as I've looked at the settings and no one else has this issue so I think JP should accept that it's nothing to do with the site and is to do with his devices.

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
25 July, 2019 08:27
iPhone login tested as promised yesterday.

Logged in yesterday around this time, (first visit on that device, safari browser), left site and not revisited until 3 minutes ago.

Both 24hrs and midnight/calendar day change passed.

“Keep me logged in” (or whatever the words are) works perfectly for me across all 3 Apple devices (phone, iPad, Mac)

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
25 July, 2019 09:05
Further to above post, for those who are not keeping up with a parallel discussion on “The Tigers are Wobbling” thread, I’d suggest you have a quick look at how things are going there......

For your convenience, this is an update:- it’s my post of a few minutes ago.....

Ah, the plot thickens!

Firstly JP, in answer to your question as to why I don’t start using VFT22 for rugby related posts it’s because I really don’t want to be involved in a dual -site board community. It doesn’t work. In the old days, when we had the Wuss offie open, there wasn’t one community of posters using both boards, essentially there were 2 communities. Content was diluted.

As to your other points, yes the “rules” page header is there at PE’s request, I knew that because I’d asked (on that forum) and received a prompt and clear reply. I’m positive that if users don’t like it, Lindsay has only to request a change via VFT22 operator and it will disappear in a flash.

Finally, your comment above, 23:02hrs, Quote:-
Seems like someone is already making decisions on our behalf that we do not know about. I really hope and trust it is not our existing admin on this site because that would be a serious conflict of interest and incredibly two faced.
End Quote

It’s not often I’m speechless, but that nearly caused it. Firstly we did know about it, well those who bothered to ask did.

What’s happening here is that an alternative forum has presented itself, (an alternative to the one we've all been moaning about at various times for years) and our community is discussing the issue in broad terms, as should we ignore it, start using it alongside this one, or switch to it, as per Sale community.

As part of that process, our moderator has co-operated by getting involved, understanding the issues, talking to the potential alternative site, and providing us with a personalised Wuss page to the extent that we have, uniquely, the “forum rules” popup. Which we don’t like, and I’d guess, will now be removed.

To accuse her of being “incredibly two faced” is highly inappropriate. If this was parliament I’d be asking the honourable gentleman to withdraw that remark.

What would you prefer, another moderator talking to VFR22 and a proper battle of the sites where various minutiae of operation are endlessly discussed to the huge interest of one or two and the general bemusement of everyone else?

No, PE has done exactly the right thing in talking to VFT22, and in creating the Poll here, and she’s trying to help us make a sensible decision which will avoid split content across two boards.

I’m astonished and disappointed that in your attempts to ensure that SN forum prevails that you descend into what is basically personal abuse.

MESSAGES->author
ARFC Warrior
25 July, 2019 09:13
Getting back to the Poll I voted "not bothered", which some may see as a cop out but accurately reflects my view and I suspect the view of many others as only 20 people have so far voted.

For me "not bothered" means I don't mind where the forum sits, as long as it's in one place and not split.

I am pleased that Lindsay has taken the time and effort to rationally check the VTF22 forum out and has taken on the role of moderator that she has so effectively fulfilled on this forum.

MESSAGES->author
Powick Eastander
25 July, 2019 09:34
Thank you ARFC (Sm128)

To all for your information I have taken the opportunity to change my user name from Powick Eastander to Goldfinch on VFT22.



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg Warriors Rugby Supporters Club http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg

MESSAGES->author
Powick Eastander
25 July, 2019 10:33
We need more votes on this please as the future of COYW will be decided by it.

Some background into why I am moderator on the VFT22 site and this one.

It was offered and I genuinely saw no conflict of interest as I am not vested in the outcome of the poll either way. This site or the other I am happy to look after which ever the poll decides.


I have never sought to imposed myself on this site or any other as as far I am concerned it is about the users not the moderator. The moderator should be invisible ideally, never having to flex their muscles publically.

Which ever site is chosen it is about the posters, always.

Sorry if that sounds pompous but that is how I feel.



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg Warriors Rugby Supporters Club http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg

Patgadd
Patgadd
25 July, 2019 11:26
Quote:
Powick Eastander
To all for your information I have taken the opportunity to change my user name from Powick Eastander to Goldfinch on VFT22.

The Goldfinch (Carduelis carduelis) is famous for its colourful red and yellow plumage. The Goldfinch is a somewhat cultural fascination...it has a beautiful, silken song which twitters along with distinctive liquid tones. This is often accompanied by a swaying, rocking motion, which is used for attracting mates or supporting rugby teams.

Well, I may have altered the last part a trifle, but I shall watch out for the rocking next time I hear the silken song "Come on you Worcester boys".

PS a group of goldfinches is known as a charm.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 25/07/2019 11:27 by Patgadd.

MESSAGES->author
Powick Eastander
25 July, 2019 11:45
Quote:
Patgadd
Quote:
Powick Eastander
To all for your information I have taken the opportunity to change my user name from Powick Eastander to Goldfinch on VFT22.

The Goldfinch (Carduelis carduelis) is famous for its colourful red and yellow plumage. The Goldfinch is a somewhat cultural fascination...it has a beautiful, silken song which twitters along with distinctive liquid tones. This is often accompanied by a swaying, rocking motion, which is used for attracting mates or supporting rugby teams.

Well, I may have altered the last part a trifle, but I shall watch out for the rocking next time I hear the silken song "Come on you Worcester boys".

PS a group of goldfinches is known as a charm.

(Sm22)



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg Warriors Rugby Supporters Club http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
26 July, 2019 16:32
Poll numbers creeping up, we’re now on 25 votes, with 15 in favour of a move and only 2 positively against. Still small numbers.

As a comparison, Tigers poll now has 56 votes, with the majority, 26, being in favour of a move, but 18 wanting to stay on SN as long as it’s “improved where possible”. (Whatever that means). A further 11 are happy to stay on SN because it “works well”.

Hard to make comparisons, since Tigers don’t have the same questions on their poll as on ours.

Is it logical to expect that Tigers would get more than double our number of votes, after all they have more than double our number of ST holders, and probably more than double our number of posters.

I’d urge all readers, posters and lurkers, to get a vote registered, and a clear decision to move made, rather than just have both boards running.

Only PE (GF) can know, but I wonder if the majority of our regular posters, (we know who we are), are between us responsible for our 15 “move” votes. If so, the lurkers can follow us on VFT22, after all, if they don’t post or vote on here we can’t know what they’d prefer.

MESSAGES->author
ARFC Warrior
27 July, 2019 10:07
Quote:
ARFC Warrior
Getting back to the Poll I voted "not bothered", which some may see as a cop out but accurately reflects my view and I suspect the view of many others as only 20 people have so far voted.
For me "not bothered" means I don't mind where the forum sits, as long as it's in one place and not split.

I am pleased that Lindsay has taken the time and effort to rationally check the VTF22 forum out and has taken on the role of moderator that she has so effectively fulfilled on this forum.

Well I have checked out the VFT22 forum and as a consequence changed my vote to "yes".

Sorry SN too little, too late.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/07/2019 10:08 by ARFC Warrior.

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
27 July, 2019 10:21
ARFC, thanks for taking the time to have a look and consider your options. We’re all trying to avoid a dual-site split, so we each need to fall off the fence, and you’ve fallen the same way.

If it helps waverers, have a look at this post from the guy who runs the new Quins site, they left SN, didn’t move to VFT22, went elsewhere, but it needs hammering in that their new site, as well as ShedWeb and Wasps, can be accessed with one click from the VFT22 index page.....a huge advantage.

QUINS POST:- (on Sale SN board)
Re: When does this forum "go dark" for the last time ? new
Posted by: DOK. (IP Logged)
Date: 23 July, 2019 22:19

Hi there,

Harlequin fan in peace. I actually run the current Harlequins site and ran the sportnetwork site.

I'm sorry to read some of you don't visit our site because registering/remembering a userid password is too difficult/cumbersome. Might I suggest use a password manager, then logging in is simple as the userid/password get filled in for you? (yes, you still have to register, but it's only once!).

23Shark did kindly offer us a place on his server when we were looking to move, but in the end we went for the site where we currently are. I wouldn't claim it to be in any way superior, but it ticked a lot of boxes at the time we moved.

As for why our SportNetwork site is still going, that's a good question. I think the SN admins have fixed it so it doesn't time out for front page stuff. Someone is still feeding it in a desultory way, but I don't know who and even less why. Regrettably it was nothing to do with me, so I know of no "trick" to leave this board functioning when you go.

When we left SN, we had intended to move "en masse" to the new board and just let the old one die. I saw something above about keeping two boards going, but I really wouldn't advise that. You'll just split membership and have the possibility of both boards not having enough "life" in them.

Anyway, I wish you all the best with the move to your new board - I had a quick peek and it does seem better already than this one. Of course it's a shame to move, and we went through the same discussions and angst that you've had over moving, but I can honestly say once moved, we haven't had anyone asking to move back.

SimonG19
SimonG19
27 July, 2019 11:08
Unbelievably I think this site is now worse. Voted to go.

Freypal
Freypal
27 July, 2019 11:22
Quote:
SimonG19
Unbelievably I think this site is now worse. Voted to go.

I rarely use the desktop site here. Mobile site seems no different to me though? Massive ad banners, images don't scale to post Windows. Big thing for me is this board doesn't run over a secure connection. I voted to go

A38
A38
27 July, 2019 11:37
Key issue for me is the point Ted and others have made: there is little purpose in having two sites - it's an unnecessary dilution.

I have voted for Vft22 after some deliberation, as at my age I don't like too much innovation, but the links to the other Prem team sites are very much a plus.

That said I'm not sure about the resources which stand behind Vft22 - and I'm not talking about matters technological - but to be fair I also have no idea about how Sportsnetwork is supported and how robust its finances are.

I've been using SN quite happily for a few years now - and with an ad blocker - so I've been riding on somebody's back and relying on their resources to keep the site going indefinitely.

23Shark
23Shark
27 July, 2019 15:02
Finance wise is no issue, I have my own server and it's hosted on that so it's no strain on me. The adverts are only there to fund the prediction league prize and advertising the site

A38
A38
27 July, 2019 15:34
Thank you for that reassurance. I'm afraid that as an old banker (collective noun: a wunch - thank you Mr Spooner) how things are financed is of interest to me.

MESSAGES->author
Faithful_City
28 July, 2019 08:13
I have asked a similar question of 23Shark on VFT22

Quote:

You have done a great job here.

This may well bring responsibilities you may not have considered.

Where have you got VFT22 is hosted?
What happens if the host goes down?
Who is going to administer when you are unavailable (holidays, work, sick)
Do you have help administering the site
What happens in 10years if your circumstances change

If the majority of the clubs move across this will become a 24/7 enterprise


These are for me quite key if we move over and lose SN there will be no move back

JP

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
28 July, 2019 15:23
Quote:
Faithful_City
I have asked a similar question of 23Shark on VFT22
Quote:

You have done a great job here.

This may well bring responsibilities you may not have considered.

Where have you got VFT22 is hosted?
What happens if the host goes down?
Who is going to administer when you are unavailable (holidays, work, sick)
Do you have help administering the site
What happens in 10years if your circumstances change

If the majority of the clubs move across this will become a 24/7 enterprise


These are for me quite key if we move over and lose SN there will be no move back

JP

Those are fair questions JP. I can’t see on VFT22 where you asked them, so I can’t see if you’ve had any response. No doubt you’ll update us on here.

I have a question re. this poll.

It’s obviously too soon yet to draw any conclusions, and there’s still a chance that between us we can prompt more posters and lurkers to vote. But at some point a decision has to be made, and presumably, or unless things change drastically, the consensus on here is to move to VFT22, which I’m guessing means doing the same as Sale have done.

Which is to post a message saying “we’ve moved”, and support this board for a short while to allow less frequent visitors to catch up.

If the voting remains strongly in favour of a move, when should we expect to
a) Close the poll, and take the decision?
b) continue to maintain this board?

Abmatt
Abmatt
28 July, 2019 15:37
To those that know more than me:

Is it possible to transfer the contents of this forum to a new one? This would enable the information to be retained and utilised. I presume should this site close all information would be lost.

Could all registered members be migrated? (User names, passwords etc)

gmem
Garym
28 July, 2019 15:50
I am in the not bothered camp - I will just go where I am told.

JP does ask some very salient posts regarding one man effectively turning a hobby into something more serious. I saw enough of that with hosting companies thinking they full blown IT service companies!

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
28 July, 2019 17:31
Quote:
Abmatt
To those that know more than me:
Is it possible to transfer the contents of this forum to a new one? This would enable the information to be retained and utilised. I presume should this site close all information would be lost.

Could all registered members be migrated? (User names, passwords etc)

This is not an authoritative reply, but I’d expect the answer to be no.

I’d expect posters wanting to, would have to register individually on VFT22, but I’d be interested to know what information held on SN you’d want to access? Thread chat has a half-life of a few weeks at best, and would soon grow a history on any new forum.

Abmatt
Abmatt
28 July, 2019 19:25
Exactly that. The history. Lost of information on here that can be searched and accessed. Shame for it all to be lost.

Chris1850
Chris1850
28 July, 2019 23:23
Quote:
Abmatt
Exactly that. The history. Lost of information on here that can be searched and accessed. Shame for it all to be lost.

It will still be there. You can always come back and access it on the odd occasion you may wish to do so, surely?

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
29 July, 2019 06:02
Quote:
Abmatt
Exactly that. The history. Lost of information on here that can be searched and accessed. Shame for it all to be lost.

Not quite with you.

What information? If you’re thinking of thread history then one needs the search function to be working, which it is now, but wasn’t for ages until the threat of mass defections became an issue, and how long before it goers down again?

I can’t think of anything else here that couldn’t easily be found elsewhere.

MESSAGES->author
Faithful_City
29 July, 2019 06:59
If this site is abandoned it will all be lost. The threads are not easily copied over, certainly SN would be very very unlikely to allow mass transfer.

If we want to be able to go back and read what was written about a certain subject we have to keep this site operating.

JP

Chris1850
Chris1850
29 July, 2019 08:05
Quote:
Faithful_City
If this site is abandoned it will all be lost. The threads are not easily copied over, certainly SN would be very very unlikely to allow mass transfer.
If we want to be able to go back and read what was written about a certain subject we have to keep this site operating.

JP

Simply do what Quins and Sale have done. Put up a Sticky directing users to the new forum and then jump ship. The SN site (so far) stays alive, so if you really want to search an old thread you can. But after a month or two, how likely are most people going to want to do that anyway?

IMHO the numerous, considerable advantages offered by VFT22 over SN far outweigh any minor issue such as not being able to access a thread from years ago.

MESSAGES->author
Abberley
29 July, 2019 09:10
Quote:
23Shark
...I have my own server...

Hopefully you don't mean that literally winking smiley

Presumably a virtual server on AWS or similar?
AWS for small/static sites can be free or negligible cost depending on use - but what would the costs be if traffic built up to (or ideally exceeded) current SN levels?

MESSAGES->author
Powick Eastander
29 July, 2019 10:21
Poll ends at 7pm on 31st so get your vote in and have your say



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg Warriors Rugby Supporters Club http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg

MESSAGES->author
Faithful_City
29 July, 2019 12:30
Having been testing out the site for several days there a pluses and minuses to both sites.

Movement around VFT22 can be really convoluted if you are sending PM’s and at other times getting back to you forum.

I am also a little concerned in its support. VFT23 is good and will become really intensive to manage if all the clubs move over(the only reason I would be interested) and the season intensity’s. VFT is a one man operation on his own server he has a few Sale supporters who can help and a guy from Newcastle. They have to get access through 23Sharks login to his server.

What happens during sickness holidays paid workload. He has already said he is very busy at work and will do it later at night after work.

I don’t think we should move until we have seen how it operates. Can he manage and keep it going for 10/20 years SN is already 18yrs in

To move to a one man hobby no matter how good is fraught with danger.

JP

MESSAGES->author
Faithful_City
29 July, 2019 13:53
I have to disagree with closing such an important poll on the 31st July, it only opened on the 23rd July that would be only 8 days, we have had far less important polls open for several weeks.

During this time many supporters who use this site on a regular basis will be on holiday and/or taking a rugby sabbatical until the new season starts.

How can we see how the forum will cope with lots of people all over the country posting on the same forum?

How many of the 22 who have voted to leave are actually Warriors Supporters?

How many of the 22 have actually registered on VFT22 and tested it out.
   1. Posted messages
   2. Started threads, edited text(size/bold/colour/).
   3. Inserted a link to others sites or articles they want to link to
   4. Quoted another poster or news article.
   5. Tried to send a PM and get back to the Warriors forum
   6. Find another registered person to send a PM to
   7. Inserted a video
   8. Inserted a FB link

So far only 14 Warriors Supporters have registered with the site, where have the 22 votes to leave now come from, there are 33 votes meaning over half are not registered members of VFT Forum. In fact only 8 people have registered AND posted a message.

Registered Members and posts

    Name                     Posts
Faithful City               74
TeflonTed                   25
Goldfinch                    7
A38                          5
Patgadd                      2
Abmatt                       1
Wah-RE-or                    1
Over The Border              1
ARFC Warrior                 1
Silver Warrior               0
Philosopher                  0
Worcester Woman              0
Dog Ruff                     0
BmStinton                    0

Closing the vote after 8 days in my opinion is not allowing everyone a chance to test VFT22 out and for those AWOL to vote.

JP

23Shark
23Shark
29 July, 2019 14:35
Quote:
Faithful_City
Having been testing out the site for several days there a pluses and minuses to both sites.
Movement around VFT22 can be really convoluted if you are sending PM’s and at other times getting back to you forum.

I am also a little concerned in its support. VFT23 is good and will become really intensive to manage if all the clubs move over(the only reason I would be interested) and the season intensity’s. VFT is a one man operation on his own server he has a few Sale supporters who can help and a guy from Newcastle. They have to get access through 23Sharks login to his server.

What happens during sickness holidays paid workload. He has already said he is very busy at work and will do it later at night after work.

I don’t think we should move until we have seen how it operates. Can he manage and keep it going for 10/20 years SN is already 18yrs in

To move to a one man hobby no matter how good is fraught with danger.

JP

Quite frankly I think that's totally disingenuous.

SN is less than a one man band, it has had 0 updates in years and it's taken me setting up VFT22 for Jon to even show his face on SN and push out an update that's been in the works for "2 years". It was pushed out in a rush as could be seen by the fact that it totally broke the mobile version of the site.

The forum is reliant on having a set of active admins and mods who police their sections which is exactly the same as VFT22 is set up so there is no difference between the two sites.

Therefore I'm arguably in a better position to deal with it than SN as I'm actually an active admin rather than having a broken search feature for 7 years.

23Shark
23Shark
29 July, 2019 14:40
Quote:
Abberley
Quote:
23Shark
...I have my own server...

Hopefully you don't mean that literally winking smiley

Presumably a virtual server on AWS or similar?
AWS for small/static sites can be free or negligible cost depending on use - but what would the costs be if traffic built up to (or ideally exceeded) current SN levels?

It's a leased server with 20 odd sites on it already including a cricket forum with millions of hits so it'll cope fine with an increase member base.

There's been no slow down in the site speed as we've grown so far, June had 28k page views and we're close to 75k this month.

MESSAGES->author
Faithful_City
29 July, 2019 16:06
Alex, I have spent the last week trying and testing VFT22, there are many things I like about as we have discussed in PM’s.

I am not in the slightest being disingenuous, I am purely expressing where my doubts lie. Is it wrong to have a different opinion.

I still say the poll should stay open until the end of the year, however if PE wishes to close it and make a decision on the poll and lack of registered member testing that is a choice for her.

I personally would need a lot more.

I will continue to use both sites and see how it pans out.

JP

23Shark
23Shark
29 July, 2019 18:26
Quote:
Faithful_City
Alex, I have spent the last week trying and testing VFT22, there are many things I like about as we have discussed in PM’s.
I am not in the slightest being disingenuous, I am purely expressing where my doubts lie. Is it wrong to have a different opinion.

I still say the poll should stay open until the end of the year, however if PE wishes to close it and make a decision on the poll and lack of registered member testing that is a choice for her.

I personally would need a lot more.

I will continue to use both sites and see how it pans out.

JP

Fair enough you have your opinion but it's ironic. You note that I said I couldn't work on the site because I was busy in work which was true as I can't code something that'll take time during the day but taking 1/2 a day to sort it hardly compares to 7 years to fix the search function on here which only got fixed due to my site getting set up.

Lets be honest Jon has done nothing on this site bar keeping the site alive, I'm an active admin who can actually build and develop a rugby community.

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
30 July, 2019 12:48
Quote:
Faithful_City
Alex, I have spent the last week trying and testing VFT22, there are many things I like about as we have discussed in PM’s.
I will continue to use both sites and see how it pans out.

JP

This is a problem though isn’t it? There is a thread on each site discussing Rory Duncan’s prospects of leaving or staying, do you intend commenting on both threads, and getting responses on each which will differ from various posters who are not active in similar threads on both sites?

This is precisely what I feel we need to avoid.

In essence, we need to fall off this particular fence, and choose which pot to pee in.

Patgadd
Patgadd
30 July, 2019 15:12
Quote:
TeflonTed
In essence, we need to fall off this particular fence, and choose which pot to pee in.

Many wives can testify that their husband's aim is not all it could be when the act of micturition is performed from a standing position. It must be even more dodgy when sitting on a fence!

MESSAGES->author
Powick Eastander
30 July, 2019 17:59
I have added and amended the menus at the top of the page

"Rugby Forums" menu added with all non SN forums that I know of.. Any others?

Main menu amended.

"Other Rugby" has RFU, IRB and Referees sites.

Any other suggestions for sites to add to these menus?



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg Warriors Rugby Supporters Club http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
30 July, 2019 19:40
Quote from JP on this thread, showing concern about VFT22 being a one-man-band:-
“What happens during sickness holidays paid workload. He has already said he is very busy at work and will do it later at night after work.”


Quote from SN on the Sportsnetwork Revamp thread.....
“HTTPS is coming, I had hoped to do it with this update but it needs a more substantial update on the server. It will probably be a couple of weeks due to holidays - don't want to break too much just before I'm away...
Jon”

Doesn’t sound much like anything other than a one-man-band does it?

MESSAGES->author
Faithful_City
31 July, 2019 07:50
It does Ted, it does sound like Jon Steer is the main man who probably has to do the work on his own but at least it is in his job description.

Mind you still waiting for club colour changes from 23Shark when PE did ours within minutes.

JP

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
31 July, 2019 08:00
Quote:
Faithful_City
It does Ted, it does sound like Jon Steer is the main man who probably has to do the work on his own but at least it is in his job description.
Mind you still waiting for club colour changes from 23Shark when PE did ours within minutes.

JP

Now, when was it I said we were in danger of boring people to death with interminable discussions about the minutiae?

Yes, yes, I know that header/text size/colours etc etc are all important things.......

But not as important as just making the feckin decision (ask Mrs May),

Brummagem Bertie
Brummagem Bertie
31 July, 2019 08:04
Quote:
Faithful_City
It does Ted, it does sound like Jon Steer is the main man who probably has to do the work on his own but at least it is in his job description.
Mind you still waiting for club colour changes from 23Shark when PE did ours within minutes.

JP

Bet it won't take him 7 years, though. (Sm14)



Whatever you do, do it safely!

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
31 July, 2019 08:12
Quote:
Brummagem Bertie
Quote:
Faithful_City
It does Ted, it does sound like Jon Steer is the main man who probably has to do the work on his own but at least it is in his job description.
Mind you still waiting for club colour changes from 23Shark when PE did ours within minutes.

JP

Bet it won't take him 7 years, though. (Sm14)

JP could do us a graph charting response times against perceived importance of change requested, might help one or two more of our disinterested (all right Pat, uninterested) colleagues get off their donkeys and vote.

23Shark
23Shark
31 July, 2019 10:50
Quote:
Faithful_City
It does Ted, it does sound like Jon Steer is the main man who probably has to do the work on his own but at least it is in his job description.
Mind you still waiting for club colour changes from 23Shark when PE did ours within minutes.

JP

It's a change that can be made once a decision has been made, doesn't really make sense to do it before?

It's not like it affects the user experience on the site.... at least our search function works.

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
31 July, 2019 13:08
Oh, and another thing.......US political correctness v modern British English

@#$%&
@#$%&
@#$%&

Just three inoffensive English words which SN will censor:-
The correct term for a female dog
The first word of the title of a very famous novel by John Cleland
A decent old English term for one's bottom

More offensive terms, such as the f word, the c word and the n word, I would very much like to think our posters would refrain from using without the necessity of having them censored.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/07/2019 13:17 by TeflonTed.

Freypal
Freypal
01 August, 2019 07:28
Whilst I appreciate the concern over ongoing support this has to be balanced against current support. As pointed out search has been broken here for 7 years and there still isn't HTTPS support.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2019 07:58 by Freypal.

Day tripper
Day tripper
04 August, 2019 06:54
Why am I not on the list of registered members. I joined before you posted it. Just wondered.

MESSAGES->author
Faithful_City
04 August, 2019 09:53
Day tripper

Worked it out, I had searched for Worcester Warriors as the club and you had put Worcester so it missed you and Freypal out, sorry.

Both 0 posts

JP

Day tripper
Day tripper
05 August, 2019 18:45
No problem. Thanks for the reply. 👍

Freypal
Freypal
07 August, 2019 10:11
Is there a plan for deciding on this? Poll shows a healthy majority for moving and having used both for a bit now, the VFT22 board is so much better to use on mobile.

A38
A38
07 August, 2019 10:23
But so far there has been minimal traffic on Vft22 whilst this forum is seeing usual patterns.

Is this demonstrating a wish to stay put? Or perhaps it's habit? But I agree that it's best to have the one forum rather than dilute with two running in parallel.

Freypal
Freypal
07 August, 2019 13:20
I think until a declaration is made people will stay put. If the decision is that people prefer VFT22 then if we state a switchover date the traffic switches....

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
07 August, 2019 19:51
Can’t see the numbers changing much now. Clear majority to change, which was not my initial preference but is now my vote.

Like many of us, I’ve suffered the frustration of this site going dark when the required new story hadn’t been posted, and reading other forums it seems that this has been waived for at least 2 clubs talking of moving. Too little too late.

The “new” marker still doesn’t clear every time (mobile version iPad Safari), some are concerned about security (I’m not) the site navigation doesn’t include a link to the Sale forum other than going via VFT22, the search function was restored only under threat of defections, the page layout makes pm’s impossible to read on a phone screen.........

Overall I’m happy to try the switch.

MESSAGES->author
Faithful_City
07 August, 2019 21:13
I am staying put.

I have tried it, obviously it is not attracting many punters. I feel the that those who have voted to move are not regular users/posters on this site as they are not bothered to post on VFT22.

JP

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
07 August, 2019 21:45
I’ve said all along I’d stay with the majority, and accept the decision of the vote, with the prime objective of not having split traffic across 2 sites.

And the current majority vote is clearly in favour of a move, which will only work if we actually move. This has been achieved at Sale by a posted sticky advising the community of a change, and a period of leaving the SN site open for a handover period. Traffic has ceased on Sale SN board, and VFT22 is fully active.

Falcons now have traffic on both sites, Quins, Glaws and Wasps are elsewhere, Tigers have a poll, relatively indecisive, it’s gonna be a mess!

I see no reason why we wouldn’t switch and follow the Sale model, the numbers are clear. We now have 43 votes....how many regular contributors do we have?

Patgadd
Patgadd
07 August, 2019 23:14
I have to agree. Time to move on.

Freypal
Freypal
08 August, 2019 06:18
I've started posting on VFT22 but have also been posting here. If we are in agreement I'll stop posting here and move over. We need a core group of others to do the same to make the break otherwise as stated above there will be split traffic and a mess.

There is nothing unique about this site any more given other club boards have moved on and other site hosts offer more functionality and usability.

23Shark
23Shark
08 August, 2019 06:21
Quote:
Faithful_City
I am staying put.
I have tried it, obviously it is not attracting many punters. I feel the that those who have voted to move are not regular users/posters on this site as they are not bothered to post on VFT22.

JP

The 85,000 page views last month suggest otherwise

MESSAGES->author
Faithful_City
08 August, 2019 06:54
some other clubs have moved on.

Sale because VFT22 is owned by them, it is their site and want others to come and join their site.

Quins and Wasps have their own sites, Gloucester have always had their own. All 3 are not bothered about belonging to a rugby community.

Falcons and Irish are at halfway house.

The majority of clubs are staying with SN. Look at the numbers of threads and posts on VFT22, they are very very few. 90% of warriors are mine testing out the site not an indication people on this site want to move.

The poll could be members from any club trying to influence the result.

JP

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
08 August, 2019 07:17
Quote:
Faithful_City
I am staying put.
I have tried it, obviously it is not attracting many punters. I feel the that those who have voted to move are not regular users/posters on this site as they are not bothered to post on VFT22.

JP

OK, fair comments.

If I read you correctly, It appears you question if our large majority vote in favour of a move is being achieved by a form of gerrymandering in which “move” votes are being cast by voters who are not “regular users/posters on this site”.

Firstly, let’s define “this site”. Do you mean the Worcester Warriors SN board, or a broader definition, which would be the SN Premiership Rugby boards? My view is that votes from regular posters/readers from other premiership clubs would be acceptable.

Here’s a question for Lindsay, who, I would expect, can see who voted for what. Could we be told from where our 27 “move” votes have come? Without revealing individuals’ personal preferences of course.

If, for argument’s sake, 26 of them are from Sale posters, prompted by a love of VFT22, then I might want to think again. If most of them are, as I would expect, from posters who are recognised as Wuss board members, then clearly that substantiates and vindicates the “move” vote.

Things we need to know:-
How many “regular” (define) Wuss posters are there in total?
How many of our “move” votes are from those posters?
How many of our “move” votes are from other SN prem. board posters?
How many of our “move” votes are from unfamiliar/occasional posters?

Let’s get it sorted before we can start enjoying the rugby.

23Shark
23Shark
08 August, 2019 08:05
At the end of the day it's up to Lindsay, I'm with Ted though that if Lindsay announces the move then people will start posting on VFT22 instead of on here.

Once it all gets set up then I expect there to be more moves during the season as people realise that there's more on offer on VFT22.

MESSAGES->author
Faithful_City
08 August, 2019 08:10
It is not up to Lindsay, it is up to members.

JP

Freypal
Freypal
08 August, 2019 08:33
Members have voted to move though.

Agree traffic will only increase in VFT22 when a decision is made to move. Also as more clubs move more will follow. Wasps and Quins have moved very recently. Sale have now gone. Irish are going. Falcons are going.

23Shark
23Shark
08 August, 2019 08:41
Quote:
Faithful_City
It is not up to Lindsay, it is up to members.
JP

And the members have decided, there's a poll at the top of this page and the vast majority have said they would prefer to move.

What's made you change your tune about the move? Only a week or so ago you were constantly in my PMs asking to help with the move, offering to be an admin etc

MESSAGES->author
Faithful_City
08 August, 2019 09:59
Testing the site and it organisation

From the responses and my own look around decided it was not for me.

Sorry but we all have our preferences.

And I actually like the changes to SN

23Shark
23Shark
08 August, 2019 10:03
Fair enough, what changes do you like to SN?

MESSAGES->author
Powick Eastander
08 August, 2019 10:58
Sorry to disappoint but I have no access to the data behind the vote. Therefore not able to tell who the voters are.



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg Warriors Rugby Supporters Club http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg

MESSAGES->author
Butthead
08 August, 2019 11:04
I've voted to move to this century's technology, looks good to me. Even without Adblock Plus activated it looks nice and clean, and is very snappy at loading pages.

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
08 August, 2019 11:13
Quote:
Powick Eastander
Sorry to disappoint but I have no access to the data behind the vote. Therefore not able to tell who the voters are.

Thanks for the prompt reply Lindsay.

Shame we can’t get a view on that. We’ll have to trust the poll!

Abmatt
Abmatt
08 August, 2019 12:48
Having spent some time today playing on vft22 I prefer it.

It is better than this site in all respects, bar the number of topics. Far more user friendly and more functionality.

Should we move the threads will increase.

I for one think we should move sooner rather than later and get it up and running before the season and RWC starts.

MESSAGES->author
Powick Eastander
08 August, 2019 13:03
As the consensus is to depart to VFT22 now to set a date.

I propose Saturday 17th.
A) because it is a weekend and I have the time sort any issues.
cool smiley Gives folks time to register on VFT22 and get used to the format.
C) I can have a few gins if it all gets too fractious..



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg Warriors Rugby Supporters Club http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg

MESSAGES->author
Faithful_City
08 August, 2019 13:30
I have absolutely no intentions of moving to VFT22,.

JP

23Shark
23Shark
08 August, 2019 14:04
No worries, it's not for everyone I guess!

Abmatt
Abmatt
08 August, 2019 14:33
Quote:
Powick Eastander
As the consensus is to depart to VFT22 now to set a date.
I propose Saturday 17th.
A) because it is a weekend and I have the time sort any issues.
cool smiley Gives folks time to register on VFT22 and get used to the format.
C) I can have a few gins if it all gets too fractious..

Agreed

Wah-RE-or
Wah-RE-or
08 August, 2019 14:55
I love it how people move the goal posts after a decision doesn't turn out how they like!

To aid clarity one of the vote to move is mine and I'm not a Sale supporter.

I'll be happy to move on the 17th.

gmem
Garym
08 August, 2019 15:11
Quote:
Powick Eastander
As the consensus is to depart to VFT22 now to set a date.
I propose Saturday 17th.
A) because it is a weekend and I have the time sort any issues.
cool smiley Gives folks time to register on VFT22 and get used to the format.
C) I can have a few gins if it all gets too fractious..

Being a pedant Saturday 17th of what?

MESSAGES->author
TeflonTed
08 August, 2019 15:45
Quote:
Garym
Quote:
Powick Eastander
As the consensus is to depart to VFT22 now to set a date.
I propose Saturday 17th.
A) because it is a weekend and I have the time sort any issues.
cool smiley Gives folks time to register on VFT22 and get used to the format.
C) I can have a few gins if it all gets too fractious..

Being a pedant Saturday 17th of what?

Well, it’ll either be in 9 days time or Oct 2020, which is the next one after that.
What do you prefer?

Patgadd
Patgadd
08 August, 2019 15:48
Quote:
Garym
Being a pedant Saturday 17th of what?

Edit - Ed beat me to it while I was trying to get into P.E.'s head

Call me a master mindreader, but as the next Saturday 17th after this month is October 2020, I have used my amazing powers of deduction to work out that August is the date PE (or Goldfinch) has in mind.

Fine with me, but the question is: where should our interminable word association game go? Should it remain in-house, or move to the general site to let others in? I mention it because a number of premiership clubs have (or had) similar threads on SN and may like to join in the fun.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2019 15:50 by Patgadd.

23Shark
23Shark
08 August, 2019 15:49
Quote:
Patgadd
Quote:
Garym
Being a pedant Saturday 17th of what?

Call me a master mindreader, but as the next Saturday 17th after this month is October 2020, I have used my amazing powers of deduction to work out that August is the date PE (or Goldfinch) has in mind.

Fine with me, but the question is: where should our interminable word association game go? Should it remain in-house, or move to the general site to let others in? I mention it because a number of premiership clubs have (or had) similar threads on SN and may like to join in the fun.

Funny you say that as I've just started a version of that in "The Bar"

Freypal
Freypal
08 August, 2019 16:45
Makes sense. It's before the WC kicks off and well before the prem starts.

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