Latest news:

Saracens are RELEGATED
Discussion started by Faithful_City , 18 January, 2020 20:13
Saracens are RELEGATED
Faithful_City 18 January, 2020 20:13
At the end of the season!!


Quite right to




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 21/01/2020 10:54 by Faithful_City.

Re: Saracens are RELEGATED
Faithful_City 18 January, 2020 20:16

Re: Saracens are RELEGATED
Faithful_City 18 January, 2020 20:18

Re: Saracens are RELEGATED
Faithful_City 18 January, 2020 20:21
Maybe this will keep salaries down and talent spread throughout all clubs.

I wonder what CVC now think of their investment??

JP

Re: Saracens are RELEGATED
Faithful_City 18 January, 2020 20:54
Does anyone know if this is correct, I am sure I had read something when entry criteria was flavor of the month.

There is no salary cap in the Champioship, however entry criteria is that the promoted club has to have been within/below the Premiership salary cap for the two seasons immediately prior to promotion.

If this is the case they could be down for 2 seasons.

JP

Re: Saracens are RELEGATED
ROLLO 18 January, 2020 21:49
I think the fact that they took relegation rather than open up their books says it all.
No sympathy with the club , officials and any who may still to think they have been hard done by. Some sympathy with players and coaches but many must have had suspicions. Big sympathy with the genuine supporters who have been systamaticlally lied to.

Re: Saracens are RELEGATED
Inbox 18 January, 2020 22:36
The matter is now dealt with and for those clubs who would have been fighting for survival can now plan. Hopefully Warriors can continue to grow and gather strength.

Interesting to read some views on the Sarries board, understandably many feel let down yet a few display a certain arrogance and denial. One poster commented that he feels sorry for how many clubs will be battered next year in the Championship...

I am now wondering how their major sponsors will now respond given the outcome and subsequent impact on income for following seasons. As we’ve seen in other sports, sponsors don’t tend to hang around with their £support.

So with big players commitments/compensation to be calculated and restructuring undoubtedly forthcoming from top to bottom, the impact is going to require some very deep pockets from a new owner, I suspect?

Re: Saracens are RELEGATED
centrethere 19 January, 2020 08:53
Excerpt from the BBC article:

Exeter Chiefs were beaten by Sarries two years in succession in the Premiership's showpiece final, and their chief executive Tony Rowe is still bitter about how long it has taken the game's authorities to take firm action.

"They've taken relegation," Rowe told BBC Radio Devon following the news. "Let's be very honest about this before people have sympathy with Saracens.

"They had two choices: they could either open up their books so that Premiership Rugby could do a forensic audit of exactly what has gone on, or they could take relegation. So it was their choice not to open up their books.

Re: Saracens are RELEGATED
Fiver 19 January, 2020 09:06
If Sarries fans are commenting on the championship clubs taking a battering next year means they have never paid attention to that league. That's what happens every year. I'm pretty sure both Warriors and Bristol did that same when in the championship. Just goes to show those fans never gave a toss about the relegated clubs in the past and how pointless the championship is as a competition.

Re: Saracens are RELEGATED
everycloud 19 January, 2020 09:17
This opens up a very interesting situation for Warriors. There has been a lot of talk about Saracens having to lose players and if this is the case, we are in a strong position to pick some of them up, as we must be one of the only Premiership clubs under the salary cap. The Times published a list of the full Saracens squad which I have reproduced below. Which ones would people pick?

How the Saracens squad breaks down
Owen Farrell
Mako Vunipola
Billy Vunipola
Jamie George
Vincent Koch
George Kruis
Elliot Daly
Maro Itoje
Will Skelton
Other internationals
Sean Maitland
Richard Wigglesworth
Titi Lamositele
Brad Barritt
Duncan Taylor
Alex Goode
Damian Willemse
Rhys Carre
Alex Lozowski
Ben Spencer
Dominic Day
Jack Singleton
Nick Isiekwe
Calum Clark

Big names who haven’t played this season
Juan Figallo
Liam Williams

First-team squad players
Alex Day
Alex Lewington
Ali Crossdale
Ben Earl
Jackson Wray
Joe Gray
Josh Ibuanokpe
Matt Gallagher
Max Malins
Nick Tompkins
Ralph Adams-Hale
Richard Barrington
Rotimi Segun
Tom Whiteley
Tom Woolstencroft
Viliami Hakalo

Academy players
Andy Christie
Charlie Watson
Callum Hunter-Hill
Elliot Obatoyinbo
Joel Kpoku
Kapeli Pifeleti
Sam Crean
Sam Wainwright
Sean Reffell
Tobias Munday
Manu Vunipola

Re: Saracens are RELEGATED
Fiver 19 January, 2020 09:37
Regarding the point about Sarries not opening up their books, I'm guessing that it wasn't necessarily to hide anything, but simply that there was no point as all it would do is confirm the guilt and they'd be relegated anyway. seems to me they simply cut to the chase.

Re: Saracens are RELEGATED
Whispering_Death 19 January, 2020 09:44
I’d like to know how much over the cap they were. I know 2 million is being thrown around. Tony Rowe also suggests there is more to come out about this, he just can’t comment on it yet.

Re: Saracens are RELEGATED
Diverdave 19 January, 2020 11:08
Today’s telegraph says

“they were told at a meeting on Tuesday that they would have to rescind the titles they have won over the last three seasons and open their books to be audited or face further punishment. They have chosen the latter option”

Re: Saracens are RELEGATED
knightstemplar 19 January, 2020 11:16
Does this mean noone else can be relegated? Assuming its automatic

Re: Saracens are RELEGATED
PMB 19 January, 2020 12:24
Surely some blame must go to the RFU & PRL for failing to stamp this out back in 2015 when they had the opportunity instead of brushing it under the carpet. I believe the statement at the time was something like "a financial settlement was agreed" and it would appear that two of the three clubs allegedly involved took note.

Re: Saracens are RELEGATED
Old Col 19 January, 2020 13:05
They are still getting off too lightly-choosing relegation in preference to not opening their books so the full scope of mosdemeanour is still being hidden. How was the fact that they were over the limit hidden for the previous 3 years ? Weren't the clubs supposed to show their accounts each year ? Is there a cas for the tax authorities to investigate ? I am not saying there is ,but not publishing in full raises a lot of questions still to be answered .Another question -if Sarracens have opted for relegation does that mean they continue at the same level of expenditure for the rest of the season ?No need to try and bring themselves more into line? If so why not pay more this season to cover reduced payments next?Truly the authorities have not really taken a firm enough hold as yet.And who wants to play them this season in the Gallagher Premiership if they do not at least try to bring themselves down to playing under the terms they agreed to ? would it be meaningful ?As for the punishment of just being relegated to the Championship for a year how pathetic is that ? and how disrespectful to the Championship--just playing to serve the needs of Saracens for that year !

Re: Saracens are RELEGATED
Whispering_Death 19 January, 2020 13:34
Interesting listening to Alex Sanderson during the game today talking about why Billy V came off then saying but what a great replacement Will Skelton is with a big smile on his face. He he just not very clever or is he saying yes we’ve cheated our way to a ridiculous squad, so what.

Re: Saracens are RELEGATED
w4rriorz1980 19 January, 2020 17:55
Quote:
Inbox
The matter is now dealt with and for those clubs who would have been fighting for survival can now plan. Hopefully Warriors can continue to grow and gather strength.
Interesting to read some views on the Sarries board, understandably many feel let down yet a few display a certain arrogance and denial. One poster commented that he feels sorry for how many clubs will be battered next year in the Championship...

I am now wondering how their major sponsors will now respond given the outcome and subsequent impact on income for following seasons. As we’ve seen in other sports, sponsors don’t tend to hang around with their £support.

So with big players commitments/compensation to be calculated and restructuring undoubtedly forthcoming from top to bottom, the impact is going to require some very deep pockets from a new owner, I suspect?
Continuing your comments regarding the responses of a selection of Sarries fans,there were two of them interviewed by Sky Sports earlier.
One was basically saying to compete in Europe against the likes of the big French teams & the Leinster's of this world they had to go over the cap to compete.

Another was asked if all the Prem titles that Sarries have won are now tainted.The pompous git said no.Of course they're blydi tainted!



Eats,Shoots And Leaves

Re: Saracens are RELEGATED
centrethere 19 January, 2020 18:16
Premiership rugby have the chance tomorrow - to update the premiership table - Saracens *points of no consequence, automatic relegation.

Wonder what they will come up with.

Answers on a postcard to....

Re: Saracens are RELEGATED
WORRIED-WARRIOR 20 January, 2020 06:41
Of course their titles and trophies are tainted! They were won through cheating.

The record of Premiership winners should now have an asterisk next to Saracens:

Saracens* (cheated!)

Sad because they were the most amazing team I ever watched live in two Euro finals. Beautiful, efficient and ruthless rugby.... but now tainted forever.

Re: Saracens are RELEGATED
w4rriorz1980 20 January, 2020 07:59
Quote:
everycloud
This opens up a very interesting situation for Warriors. There has been a lot of talk about Saracens having to lose players and if this is the case, we are in a strong position to pick some of them up, as we must be one of the only Premiership clubs under the salary cap. The Times published a list of the full Saracens squad which I have reproduced below. Which ones would people pick?
How the Saracens squad breaks down
Owen Farrell
Mako Vunipola
Billy Vunipola
Jamie George
Vincent Koch
George Kruis
Elliot Daly
Maro Itoje
Will Skelton
Other internationals
Sean Maitland
Richard Wigglesworth
Titi Lamositele
Brad Barritt
Duncan Taylor
Alex Goode
Damian Willemse
Rhys Carre
Alex Lozowski
Ben Spencer
Dominic Day
Jack Singleton
Nick Isiekwe
Calum Clark

Big names who haven’t played this season
Juan Figallo
Liam Williams

First-team squad players
Alex Day
Alex Lewington
Ali Crossdale
Ben Earl
Jackson Wray
Joe Gray
Josh Ibuanokpe
Matt Gallagher
Max Malins
Nick Tompkins
Ralph Adams-Hale
Richard Barrington
Rotimi Segun
Tom Whiteley
Tom Woolstencroft
Viliami Hakalo

Academy players
Andy Christie
Charlie Watson
Callum Hunter-Hill
Elliot Obatoyinbo
Joel Kpoku
Kapeli Pifeleti
Sam Crean
Sam Wainwright
Sean Reffell
Tobias Munday
Manu Vunipola
Where's the other Kpoku?


Eats,Shoots And Leaves

Re: Saracens are RELEGATED
TVM Rides Again 20 January, 2020 08:47
I have to say I am content to see a line drawn under this and for the league to move on. The financial pressure is going to be significant - with the £5.3 million fine, usual losses associated with a relegation and the likely loss of investment and sponsorship - if Allianz stay I would be startled, given the nature of the offence.

Blood pressures seem raised all round - and there seems to be something of mob demand for tarring and feathering now - and (in my lowly opinion) that is where punishment stops and revenge starts - and so that is enough.

However - conversely - given what was said about Alex Sanderson and the fans above - my levels of sympathy remain way lower than most peoples towards coaches, players and fans.

Anyone with a scintilla of imagination would have seen that even if Saracens had found a loophole, they were outwith the spirit of the thing. To blithely accept management reassurances to me of having just enough excuse to suspend disbelief and enjoy the ride because its just too good.

I am not saying I would have done different. I can imagine (if I am honest) I probably wouldn't.

But equally, when the train pulls into the station, you simply have to get off.

TL;DR - they knew the rules, played the game, they lost. *shrug*



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/01/2020 08:50 by TVM Rides Again.

Re: Saracens are RELEGATED
centrethere 20 January, 2020 20:54
Ugo - 'Maro Itoje is a high achiever. I can't imagine a player of his stature spending a year in the Championship. It seems impossible to think that that is going to happen'

Bet you a fiver Ugo he will not leave Saracens - as not financial advantage - but may go on loan.

Can you play on loan for a French team and still be eligible? Reckon you can as still with a England club.

A short deal of some sort - Paris, Pretoria - maybe for a few months, if my bet


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net