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Team for Wasps
Discussion started by AJWarriors , 24 January, 2020 12:44
Team for Wasps
AJWarriors 24 January, 2020 12:44
1. Waller
2. Moulds
3. Schonert
4. Bresler
5. Kitchener
6. Mama
7. Lewis
8. Du Preez
9. Heaney
10. Weir
11. Howe
12. Beck
13. Lawrence
14. Humphreys
15. Shillcock

16. Taufeteíe
17. Bower
18. Palframan
19. Van Velze
20. Dodd
21. Kitto
22. Lance
23. Venter

Really really like the look of that team! So pleased Lawrence is playing too. Great to see Du Preez still with us before he goes to Scotland too. Bench looks great especially with Venter back fit. Interesting to see Pens doesnít make the squad again, but I feel itís the right call. Back row will have to deal with Willis and Young on their team and interesting to see Searle start...hope he doesnít play well just for this game ha ha

Re: Team for Wasps
Teme Dream 24 January, 2020 13:07
Surprised not to see Mills in the 23.

Re: Team for Wasps
centrethere 24 January, 2020 13:16
Through injuries mainly, I think we are getting what some of us wished for - to see the next generation being selected for game time

Re: Team for Wasps
AJWarriors 24 January, 2020 13:20
The backs look really threatening. There are some real try scorers in that back line with Lawrence, Howe, Perry and Shilly and it finally looks to have some pace and line breakers in it too.

Re: Team for Wasps
Faithful_City 24 January, 2020 13:42
Nice looking balanced team, with a fair sprinkling of youth to add a pacey edge.

If Weir is on form there are some tries in that team.

JP

Re: Team for Wasps
Whispering_Death 24 January, 2020 14:44
Great looking backline. With Fidow and Nanai seemingly out for a while, and Pennell I think most would agree not quite the player he was (understandably) that back three have a real chance of a long run in the side to see what they can do. Great to see Laurence getting a start too.

Re: Team for Wasps
Threepear 24 January, 2020 14:57
Looks like Solly is starting to blood in next year's starters. Happy to see him pick on form as opposed to experience

Re: Team for Wasps
WarwickEastie 24 January, 2020 15:09
This is spot on selection - shame no room for Van Breda on the bench, but otherwise I can't see any better players on form in any position who aren't injured.

I hope they play with freedom and do themselves justice

Re: Team for Wasps
Diverdave 24 January, 2020 15:16
I have to admit I'm disappointed not to see Scott Van Breda on the bench, I personally think he has played well enough to deserve at least a bench spot and not too sure about Joe given his poor line out performance on his last outing.

Re: Team for Wasps
TVM Rides Again 24 January, 2020 16:37
Have we a better (fit) option at 2?

Re: Team for Wasps
shrewsburyman 24 January, 2020 16:50
I would have been tempted to put Miller in after Joeís throwing last week was as bad as ever. Also sorry that there is no place for SVB on the bench.

Re: Team for Wasps
Fiver 24 January, 2020 16:58
Whilst I appreciate how well SVB has been playing, but who would any of us drop in favour of him? Both Lance and Venter are top players, and everyone seems happy with the starting back line.

Re: Team for Wasps
centrethere 24 January, 2020 18:50
Lawrence and venter maybe a luxury and svb maybe should have made the 23

Re: Team for Wasps
Diverdave 24 January, 2020 20:27
Venter maybe back, but heís been absent through injury for a while now whereas Scott has been plying his trade really well for the cavs , as for hooker Iíd rather use Issac miller at hooker

Re: Team for Wasps
Faithful_City 25 January, 2020 09:45
https://www.sixwaysrugby.co.uk/Sportsnetwork/Images/Teamsheets/WaspsH2020.jpg

We can use these in future to announce the match day team


JP

Re: Team for Wasps
Warrior7 25 January, 2020 10:55
Written format is much better for mobile on this site.

Re: Team for Wasps
Faithful_City 25 January, 2020 11:11
Thanks Warrior7

JP

Re: Team for Wasps
ROLLO 25 January, 2020 12:36
Van Veltz presumably covering lock from the bench is a concern , I think we may need to address this sooner rather than later.

Re: Team for Wasps
Drahm for England 25 January, 2020 17:54
Not sure what to say about that performance apart from we gifted them two tries through poor wing defence. Lots of supporters been clamouring for Tom Howe to start but his positioning in defence cost us today I'm afraid.

Re: Team for Wasps
Bevere Warrior 25 January, 2020 17:57
Completely agree, I am not one of those that absolutely raves about Howe. He is good in attack but his defence is not Premiership standard as it stands.

Re: Team for Wasps
Fiver 25 January, 2020 18:04
There were poor performances across the team. Even when we were winning I couldn't help but feel it was one of the worst games I've watched at Sixways. Wasps were not good, but we were pretty awful.

Re: Team for Wasps
Diverdave 25 January, 2020 18:11
I have to get this off my chest!!! Why oh why, do we continually box kick the ball away with little chance of getting it back, at one point Heaney was standing at the back of the ruck with the ball available, waiting for players to run in and form the extended ruck for the box kick, meanwhile wasps get into the defensive line sound in the knowledge of what is coming.

And I agree that we cannot use van veltz as a replacement second row, we need another second row and he isnít it.

Re: Team for Wasps
ROLLO 25 January, 2020 18:14
Thanks goodness there is no relegation as both sides would be in the mix. I agree with Fiver it was a very poor game one of o the poorest I have seen in recent times, and there is competition for that acloade.
On that showing Shillcock is not a premiership FB, Heaney is not a prem scrum half and Howe is not a prem winger. Other than Waller and DuPreez we lacked ball carriers, and we still cannot deal with the ball that bounces off the pitch. Our game mangament wasn't the best and cool heads were needed at the end when a lot of sides would have scored , as Wasps did from a similar postion.
A worrying thing is that most of the team today have re-signed for next season so a big improvement will be needed.
I can normally take these results with a certain amount of pragmatisim, but I feel really let down today.

Re: Team for Wasps
Drahm for England 25 January, 2020 18:17
I thought Shillcock did reasonably well other than some poor kicking at times. Easy for us to single out Heaney and Shillcock for kicking but assume that was the game plan?

Re: Team for Wasps
Grasshopper 25 January, 2020 18:20
Why single out Howe? During the game and after, everyone was asking why we kicked possession away so much? Wasps had the kicks well covered.
If the fans can see it, why can't the team and coaches??? We were on the back foot for 80% of the game and couldn't break Wasps control with our tactics. Poor performance, because Warriors couldn't change their game to handle what they were facing - just like last week. They are far from a top 6 side.☹

Re: Team for Wasps
AJWarriors 25 January, 2020 18:22
Thereís still a lot of things wrong about this team. Concentration levels are my biggest concern. We are so soft at the start of games and also straight after HT. The way we turn over tries just after scoring is alarming. Also our inability in the red zone is huge. With teams like Exeter is a case of waiting for them to score..with us itís a case of us either knocking on or giving away a penalty. Whatís worse is that itís becoming a common theme. We also have no big ball carriers in the forwards...lock we are almost like skinny adolescent kids compared to other teams.

We simply havenít recruited well and havenít replaced Heem or Adams. Also Iím massively concerned about recruitment going forward to next season. We look as if we are standing still at the moment. We have some really good players,but itís clear as day we need to improve the squad in key areas. Solly is starting to bother me a bit too. Man management he seems decent but motivational wise I question that side. We should be fired up and ready to perform after HT but we still seem to be in there 10 minutes after that game has started.

The club is in a good place,the fans back the team week in week out but itís almost like you can guarantee the team somewhere along the line will mess it all up. We could be such a good team but some combinations are wrong and it just feels a bit like Solly has his favourites to me. Maybe Iím wrong about that, but this team winds me up no end

Re: Team for Wasps
Drahm for England 25 January, 2020 18:22
Howe left a huge gap for Kibirige to score. Got sucked in. Some tries are down to a multitude of errors. That wasn't. It was then compounded by further poor defence on the runners for the 4th try. Not good enough defence at this level.

Re: Team for Wasps
Drahm for England 25 January, 2020 18:42
I know what you mean AJ but credit also has to be given for the try at the end of the first half. We didn't panic there, would have been easy to take the three points in the red zone but we kept our heads to get 7.

Re: Team for Wasps
Faithful_City 25 January, 2020 18:44
That was pathetic, end of!!

Our attack was the worst I have ever seen from any club in the premiership since 1998 dreadful.

JP



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 25/01/2020 18:46 by Faithful_City.

Re: Team for Wasps
Simba 25 January, 2020 18:46
This team is regressing. Started the season well but getting worse with every game.

Re: Team for Wasps
Faithful_City 25 January, 2020 18:47
Could not agree with you more.

PATHETIC the whole lot of them.

JP

Re: Team for Wasps
AJWarriors 25 January, 2020 18:59
Quote:
Drahm for England
I know what you mean AJ but credit also has to be given for the try at the end of the first half. We didn't panic there, would have been easy to take the three points in the red zone but we kept our heads to get 7.

I agree Drahm but itís too few and far between. I was half expecting us to not score too.

Re: Team for Wasps
AJWarriors 25 January, 2020 19:03
Just heard Sollyís post match interview. I just donít know about him at the moment? I just feel he uses a lot of excuses with the team not performing. He mentioned how the team need a break and have been playing for so long. I donít buy that because we have utilised pretty much the whole squad with rotation and the rest of the teams in the league have had to play the same amount of games without the luxury of rotating players like we have. Itís just starting to wear a bit thin for me now. Iím not blessed with patience as it is but after the way we started the league I felt we had turned the corner..now we seem all over the place with how we play and what we are trying to do

Re: Team for Wasps
Fiver 25 January, 2020 19:22
With 20 minutes to go I kept looking at our bench, wondering why Kitto and Venter weren't on. Heaney was slowing the game up, even when we had Wasps on the back foot and a top scrum half would have lit the afterburners. I also felt we needed a different type of runner in midfield, someone who hits the line at pace. Beck is a slightly different type of centre and I didn't feel it was working. I thought Venter would hit the line quicker and freed up Ollie, who was our standout player in the backline.

However, I must be wrong as Solly didn't do anything and he knows more than me.

Re: Team for Wasps
AJWarriors 25 January, 2020 19:31
Iíve said this time and time again that Heaney slows the game down. Iím not saying heís a bad player but heís like Jonny Are used to be. Get to the breakdown..look left..look right and pass. The opposition team is defensively set by then instead of taking advantage of a scrambled defence.

I also said I thought it should be a Venter and Lawrence combo. Venter is rapid and very direct,but more importantly runs unbelievable lines and breaks through gaps. I just feel the team is all over the place and considering we are now on the other side of Christmas barring injuries we should be a settled starting 15 by now.

It just annoys me that some of the boys arenít starting in their strongest positions too. Iím starting to get wound up now so I better stop typing lol

Re: Team for Wasps
Fiver 25 January, 2020 19:47
We had a couple of moments where we looked to break out of our 22, one of the forwards made a quick dart for 10 years and Wasps were scrambling. Most scrum halves would have been in like a shot and made the most of the situation. Heaney jogged up, put his foot on the ball and prepared a box kick. If he was tired then he should have let one of the army of water boys know and let Kitto have a go. Too many opportunities gone to waste, I felt sorry for some of the forwards.

That said, the game ended because a forward got isolated due to almost all his mates lying on the floor and not realising the gravity of our situation. I don't care if they were tired. At 5 metres out and losing the game with the clock in the red, you get your sorry backside off the floor and win the game.

Rant over (for now).

Re: Team for Wasps
ironbridge warrior 25 January, 2020 20:04
Trying to be a bit more measured than some as I do think there were some really good performances today especially from the forwards (lineouts also) and we cant leave Duncan W out of this, his meters made, his kicking into the corners & off the tee were great.

Having said that the line breaks were poor and sorry to say but the backs need to be in the game more. I am troubled about Shilly he's not our fullback of the future & if I see that silly goose step again well...............ÖÖ. just make some meters lad! im troubled about him because im not sure what he is going forward? just becoming a utility player?

If we're not playing CP then SVB must be next in line

As with other rant over for now, brin on Barf......

Re: Team for Wasps
NW2 25 January, 2020 20:52
Shilly and Heaney awful, Beck anonymous, Humphreys and Howe disappointing. Couldn't understand why Kitty and Venter weren't brought on. As a team we are definitely going backwards, I'm clinging to the hope that it's due in part to our injury list but I suspect not. We're just a very average side at best, and that's me being kind.

Re: Team for Wasps
WorcesterSauce 26 January, 2020 09:26
We have very poor players once you scrape just a bit underneath the surface, simple as that. Heaney isnít great but Kitto is nowhere near prem standard. Howe was out of his depth, Shilly was woeful, the pack was battered and Solomons clearly has no faith in a number of those who were on the bench (when was the last time we didnít bring on our replacement hooker?).

I agree we are going backwards and quickly. We havenít replaced Heem and Adams and it shows. Billy Searle played well though.

Re: Team for Wasps
Faithful_City 26 January, 2020 09:44
You are dead right WS, we are going backwards fast!

You have to ask why and one of the reasons could be coaching. Both our main coaches are being replaced how intense and driven has the coaching been since they have known they are surplus to requirements?

Add to that our much lauded defence and kicking coach is the worst defensive coach we have ever had. Just look at his record.

JP

Re: Team for Wasps
Offa 26 January, 2020 10:01
We are not going to be relegated.
I am not going to damn Shilly after one less than perfect game. If SVB is not going to be with us next season, why would we play him at 15. Shilly needs a run there. He is a good player who will come good if nurtured properly. We have a free hit at getting some of our youngsters prem game time this season.

Omar was being lauded only a few weeks ago. What has changed? Players.
He is not our worst defense coach. Our memories do not need to stretch too far to the Cross era.

Re: Team for Wasps
Faithful_City 26 January, 2020 10:23
I am afraid Omar is our worst defensive coach

https://www.sixwaysrugby.co.uk/Sportsnetwork/Stats/LatestSeasonsTable.jpg


It is tries conceded that show the holes. This season is the worst ever for tries conceded after the first 9 games of a season.

Overall points includes conversions and penalties, tries tell us how good/bad our defence is.

JP

Re: Team for Wasps
Garym 26 January, 2020 10:37
looking at the table JP put together, then it looks like we are pretty much bang average for what we have done in the past and that we have been spoilt in the last two seasons. If you were doing a proper statistical analysis on this you would take out the outliers and for this season that would be the Sarries match which would give you a completely different picture - there are lies, damm lies and statistics as the old saying goes.

Re: Team for Wasps
WorcesterSauce 26 January, 2020 10:39
Iím yet to see Shilly have a good game at full back against opposition other than Russian part timers.

He could be a good player but he is hardly the new kid on the block any more, with his Ďbreakthroughí season coming 4 season ago now and heíll be 23 next season. If he doesnít improve quickly then we have a couple of other decent looking full backs coming out of the academy who will be hot on his heals.

Re: Team for Wasps
Faithful_City 26 January, 2020 11:06
The table above shows numbers for the first 9 games of each season, this table shows the numbers for all prem games played under a specific Coaching Team

https://www.sixwaysrugby.co.uk/Sportsnetwork/Stats/LatestEra.jpg


As you can see under Gary Gold and Alan Slomons we have the 2nd and 3rd worst defensive showing, with Omar as defence coach. The only one with was worse was the very short tenure of Carl Hogg where it all went wrong.

Another standout point is tries scored. Under Gary Gold and Alan Solomoms we have been scoring a decent amount of tries in fact the best average per game since we joined the Premiership, how the last 9 games have only averaged 1.4 50% down.

It is a mix of for and against which at present is the worst for defence and 3rd worst for attack

https://www.sixwaysrugby.co.uk/Sportsnetwork/Stats/LatestAvgTries.jpg


Simples really we don't score enough or threaten to score enough to make it easier to defend as the opposition are relaxed about stopping our attack.

JP

Re: Team for Wasps
Faithful_City 26 January, 2020 11:12
Shillcock yesterday cemented his place on the bench or maybe in the A Team and handed the baton to Noah Heward as the clubs future fullback.

His stupid little hitch kicks in the middle of the fiddle were utterly pointless and seemed his showing off, "look at what I can do". They served no purpose at all.

Shilly is a good player but needs to get his head down and work to improve as soon as he accepts this he will once again shine.

JP

Re: Team for Wasps
AJWarriors 26 January, 2020 11:21
I agree to a certain extent with Shilly. Super talented guy,but I feel some players just arenít taking their opportunities when theyíre presented to them. Thatís my biggest frustration. Shilly technically isnít a kid anymore..heís coming to an age where he should have cemented a starting spot by now or at least the bench.

Guys like Furbank at Saints are a similar age and have taken their opportunities and heís now in the England squad. The thing for me with Shilly playing at full back is heís not solid enough under the high ball. Heís a good player but I honestly see him as a 9. Less pressure and he has the skills to play there. We shouldnít be debating if he can play at full back, because he should be commanding that position if he wants to start in games.

Sometimes I feel our players are a bit soft. Lack aggression a little bit. We donít seem to have much steel about us in my opinion. I think theyíre too ďniceĒ

Re: Team for Wasps
Faithful_City 26 January, 2020 11:36
YES!

We need some real angry grunt, not just tough I can take it on the chin, but tough I can give it out DOMINATE your opposite number!

JP

Re: Team for Wasps
Whispering_Death 26 January, 2020 12:02
I donít really understand why Shilly is getting such a battering. Heís playing in a team whose attack is absolutely woeful and he was clearly under instruction to kick. Heís got great running skills but heís being told to kick everything away....in a team where our wingers stand and watch the opposition catch the ball under no pressure then put in a non dominant tackle on them. We have a massive problem at SH and the 10/12/13 combination has been rubbish all season. We havenít replaced our only two dominant carriers from two seasons ago and our two best attacking threats we lost last year. And half our coaching team is leaving after just a couple of seasons. Our rolling maul was good though!

Re: Team for Wasps
Warrior7 26 January, 2020 12:04
Quote:
AJWarriors
Sometimes I feel our players are a bit soft. Lack aggression a little bit. We donít seem to have much steel about us in my opinion. I think theyíre too ďniceĒ

It's a shame we can't clone Du Preez and Lewis who always show this. I think we missed Hill's aggression yesterday, our backrow usually papers over the cracks in the tight 5 and centres IMO.

Re: Team for Wasps
Drahm for England 26 January, 2020 12:30
Even more reason to lure Will Spencer back IMO!!

Re: Team for Wasps
Diverdave 26 January, 2020 16:58
So when was it reported SVB will be leaving us next season and where is he going, and I agree, Iíve watched enough of the cavs games this season and Noah heward is a great prospect at 15 hence being called into the eng u20 squad

Re: Team for Wasps
ROLLO 26 January, 2020 17:11
Whist we say that some players from the Cav's have found the move up to prem challenging, VanBreda did not look out of place when loaned to play in the Pro 14 , indeed I think we got one MoTM.
Something is not adding up and as WD has said changing half of the coaching set-up won't help - that is not continuity. Having sadi that I don't think Doak has been of much use, we never hear him at all.
On another note I havn't seen Gordon Ross on the tochline for the last two games , have I just missed him?

Re: Team for Wasps
AJWarriors 26 January, 2020 18:27
I think heís been with the academy Rollo. I know they were up at Tigers the same day we played Wasps

Re: Team for Wasps
Old Col 27 January, 2020 15:29
This is all a but too harsh-we are much better placed than the last three seasons . did anyone really expect a perfect performances from those lacking first team experience . I personally think Shilcock's best position is number 10 -from what I have seen he is a better bet than Searle there. Yes we are limited at scrum half --the box kicking was not high enough ,too far and once it became obvious that it was being well dealt with we should have gone back to running the ball . Our back 10/12 /13 axis is potentially very good with several different permutations and the pack I thought did well against Wasps except for the last turnover. In any case how was the time when they carried over and we should have had a scrum at the death turned into a penalty against us?Gone the other way and we a had won ?Would have been a good victory wouldn't it ? and that was the margin on the day .Are some of us a bit fickle?

Re: Team for Wasps
Faithful_City 27 January, 2020 15:57
Being critical is far from being fickle, Old Col.

Not everything in sport is good or bad, sometimes you donít play as well as you should and sometimes you play fantastically well. You will quite rightly get criticized and praised.

Nothing wrong with being critisised it builds character and improves performance.

JP

Re: Team for Wasps
Faithful_City 27 January, 2020 17:50
Just a reminder that only 7 of the 23 have signed extensions to 2022 and none of them had a "bad" game. Apart from Schonert(maybe), not bad but could have done better.

JP

Re: Team for Wasps
WarwickEastie 27 January, 2020 18:48
The disappointment for me was the fact that we couldn't change our game when plan A clearly wasn't working.

The box kicks off the caterpillar rucks are woeful. If they are bang on the money and we can compete to get the ball back, then fair enough - but they were mostly overkicked and utterly predictable.

Meanwhile we failed to establish a forward platform - Wasps successfully disrupted and slowed our ball (was it always legal?), while we had to really fight to retain it. This wasn't a great platform for the backs. But then how many times did we really run at them? Howe and Humphreys didn't see much of the ball. It feels like the guys were told to play a certain way which simply didn't work against a good Wasps pack performance and we couldn't either up the aggression and get over the gainline, or else change the plan. This is what the captain and senior players should do.

Add that to the fact that our wide defence was all over the place - not sure it was just Howe's fault, there were multiple large overlaps out wide which Wasps failed to take advantage of.

That wasn't a great Wasps side, and we really should have won that match at home. Very disappointing......

Re: Team for Wasps
Warrior7 27 January, 2020 18:57
The disappointment isn't aimed at just one game, it's more at the season as a whole IMO. We were lucky in the Sale and Irish games that they each got a man sent off - IMO we have not performed well in any game this season apart from the Exeter game and which we lost and parts of the Quins game. For me our performances have been so much worse than last season but a few things have gone our way and we've managed to somehow find a way to keep the other team out.

Re: Team for Wasps
ROLLO 27 January, 2020 19:25
I am with Warrior7
The last four game
Glos - marmaliazed
LI couldn't get a TBP againts 14 men for over half of the game.
Sarcenes - atomized
Wasps - paralysed.
This has been a bad block of games so I don't buy Solyl's comments aftre Saturdays game, were they tired for all four?

Re: Team for Wasps
WorcesterSauce 27 January, 2020 23:34
ROLLO you are forgetting a completely terrible capitulation against Castres too.

Re: Team for Wasps
NW2 28 January, 2020 07:14
Spot on IMO Rollo and WS. It's been painful to watch.


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