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2020-21 Worcester squad
Discussion started by MSR-Worcester , 02 April, 2020 11:27
2020-21 Worcester squad
MSR-Worcester 02 April, 2020 11:27
I know this has been done in a number of places but for my own peace of mind and others benefit I thought I would have a look at what next season's squad is looking like. Contract expiry date is in brackets. Obviously we have no idea when this season might finish but here's hoping that it gets back to business as usual as some point.

Looseheads
Callum Black (2021)
Ethan Waller (2022)
Lewis Holsey (Academy)
Kai Owen (Academy)

Hookers
Niall Annett (2022)
Isaac Miller (2022)
Matt Moulds (Undisclosed)
Beck Cutting (Academy)

Tighthead
Conor Carey (2021)
Joe Morris (Undisclosed)
Richard Palframan (2021)
Nick Schonert (Undisclosed)

Second Row
Joe Batley (2021) **New signing**
Anton Bresler (Undisclosed)
Justin Clegg (2022)
Andrew Kitchener (2022)
Graham Kitchener (Undisclosed)
James Scott (Academy)

Back Row
Matt Cox (2021)
Tom Dodd (2022)
Ted Hill (2022)
Matt Kvesic (Undisclosed) **New signing**
Sam Lewis (Undisclosed)
Marco Mama (2021)
Caleb Montgomery (2022)
Cornell du Preez (2022)
GJ van Velze (2021)
Matti Williams (Undisclosed)
Morgan Monks (Academy)

Scrum-half
Luke Baldwin (2021)
Michael Heaney (2021)
Francois Hougaard (2021)
Jono Kitto (2021)
Gareth Simpson (2022)
Callum Morris (Academy)

Fly-half
Billy Searle (2022) **New signing**
Jamie Shillcock (2021)
Duncan Weir (2021)

Centre
Ashley Beck (2022)
Will Butler (2021)
Ollie Lawrence (2021)
Francois Venter (2022)
Oli Morris (Academy)

Wing
Ed Fidow (2021)
Alex Hearle (Undisclosed)
Tom Howe (2022)
Perry Humphreys (2021)
Melani Nanai (2022)
Nick David (Academy)

Fullback
Scott van Breda (2021)
Chris Pennell (2021)
Noah Heward (Academy)



Outgoing
Joe Taufete'e (Lyon)
Ryan Bower (Out of contract)
Farai Mudariki (Out of contract)
Michael Fatialofa (Out of contract)

Jono Lance (Edinburgh)
Luke Scully (Cardiff Blues)
Ryan Mills (Wasps)
Dean Hammond (Out of contract)



Clearly we look short at LHP, with Black (34) and Bower (29) both moving on. Neither have age or fitness or their side so its probably time to look elsewhere. Kai Owen (21) looks ready to make the step up but we still need a another senior prop IMO.

I personally think we'd be fools to let Mama go but his injury record speaks for itself. In other positions Solly has said we're seeking to promote academy players rather than recruit externally, this is fine but I think our squad size is shrinking and we need some more senior cover, particularly at lock, scrum-half and centre.

Let me know your thoughts!

Updates
- Black, Baldwin and Kitto in contract.
- Mama re-signed.
- Kvesic signed.
- Batley signed.
- Hearle senior contract



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 14/05/2020 16:02 by MSR-Worcester.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
shrewsburyman 02 April, 2020 11:39
Agree with you MSR that LHP and Lock need recruitment. I would have liked to see us strengthen scrum half as well however at the present time Iím more concerned about survival!

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
AJWarriors 02 April, 2020 13:45
Agree with all points made.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
TrueWarrior 02 April, 2020 14:21
Based on that, we need:
1 depth LH (2nd/3rd choice. Got a gem in Kai IMO so need to bring him on)
1 SR with the potential to start
1 BR who can cover 7 and 8 with the potential to start
1 SH with the potential to start
1 depth Centre

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
Faithful_City 02 April, 2020 14:42

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
ROLLO 02 April, 2020 14:42
Unless there is some dramatic turn of events it is difficult to see how we will even be able to support that squad.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
4934 02 April, 2020 15:16
Quote:
TrueWarrior
Based on that, we need:
1 depth LH (2nd/3rd choice. Got a gem in Kai IMO so need to bring him on)
1 SR with the potential to start
1 BR who can cover 7 and 8 with the potential to start
1 SH with the potential to start
1 depth Centre

There will be, I am afraid, a difference between what is needed and what can be afforded. A (further?) reduction in the budget may be in the offing given preceived financial weakness.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
TrueWarrior 02 April, 2020 16:05
Quote:
4934
Quote:
TrueWarrior
Based on that, we need:
1 depth LH (2nd/3rd choice. Got a gem in Kai IMO so need to bring him on)
1 SR with the potential to start
1 BR who can cover 7 and 8 with the potential to start
1 SH with the potential to start
1 depth Centre

There will be, I am afraid, a difference between what is needed and what can be afforded. A (further?) reduction in the budget may be in the offing given preceived financial weakness.

100% agreed. Assuming we begin next season on time and revenue stays the same, one would hope we can spend somewhere approaching the cap. LH and SR I would say would be a priority of the list I suggested above.

I do hope we find a way through this. I cant say it's always easy being a Warriors fan but oh how I miss going to Sixways and supporting the boys.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
HeemMachine 03 April, 2020 05:05
I would have loved to have seen us re-recruit Spencer in the SR and Kvesic in the BR. Plus a depth loose head and a SH to consistently challenge Francois.

Going to miss Mama if he moves on - quality guy and great player when not injured

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
MSR-Worcester 03 April, 2020 11:28
Had a look at some of the out-of-contract players in the Prem in those priority positions. I've mainly looked at those 2nd/3rd choice players who might be tempted by a move, or Sarries players wanting top-flight game time.

LHP:
Nathan Catt - Injury prone but high potential
Ralph Adams-Hale - Young Sarries prop looking for gametime
Simon McIntyre - Good prem prop

Lock:
Will Spencer - Arguably played his best rugby at Warriors
Bryn Evans - Lineout specialist
Nick Isiekwe - Probably a season loan deal but you never know

Scrum-half:
Chris Cook - 2nd choice at Bath
Scott Steele - 3rd choice at Irish
Tom Whiteley - Another young Saracen

Centre:
Jackson Willison - Would love him back
Andy Symons - Fits the mold of a depth centre
Alex Lozowski - Would be brilliant if we could tempt him.
Johnny Williams - Been at Irish/Falcons could challenge starters

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
WarwickEastie 03 April, 2020 12:58
As ever, the squad looks OK if we are 100% fit and can get all the players onto the pitch and they are all on form.

Unfortunately that never happens.

I think we are 2 or 3 star quality players short - we don't have too many X factor players right now.

I think a big enforcer at lock and a big destructive back row ball carrier would help a lot.

We've never replaced Adams /Heem at the back and I just don't see the current guys filling that void - so a star in the back 3 would also be on my shopping list.

What we can afford is another thing.....just to get back to Sixways and see the guys run out is all I want right now!
WE

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
AJWarriors 04 April, 2020 14:14
Quote:
MSR-Worcester
Had a look at some of the out-of-contract players in the Prem in those priority positions. I've mainly looked at those 2nd/3rd choice players who might be tempted by a move, or Sarries players wanting top-flight game time.
LHP:
Nathan Catt - Injury prone but high potential
Ralph Adams-Hale - Young Sarries prop looking for gametime
Simon McIntyre - Good prem prop

Lock:
Will Spencer - Arguably played his best rugby at Warriors
Bryn Evans - Lineout specialist
Nick Isiekwe - Probably a season loan deal but you never know

Scrum-half:
Chris Cook - 2nd choice at Bath
Scott Steele - 3rd choice at Irish
Tom Whiteley - Another young Saracen

Centre:
Jackson Willison - Would love him back
Andy Symons - Fits the mold of a depth centre
Alex Lozowski - Would be brilliant if we could tempt him.
Johnny Williams - Been at Irish/Falcons could challenge starters

Scrum half - How about Will Chudley MSR? Heís off contract too and I think heís a good player.

Loosehead - Simon McIntyre is a very good shout. I rate him a lot as a prop

Lock - Iíd 110% have Will Spencer back but heís supposedly have re signed for Bath. I hope thatís not true though.

Back row - we have supposedly re signed Matt Kvesic

Centre - 100% have Andy Symons back, I was gutted we let him go. Lozowski would have been nice but meant to be off to France

And I agree with WarwickEastie in that we need a top draw winger. Thereís a few around but not sure we could afford them. In saying that Millsyís wedge will free up a lot of funds to get someone in. Jonny May would be my pick if that was the case.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
AJWarriors 06 April, 2020 03:12
Just came across this on ruck.com. Theyíre saying Will Spencer is tipped to join us again by the rugby paper,but Iíve also seen the rugby paper say heís off to Bath too. Iíd certainly hope it is us. Obviously in this current situation nothing is going to be announced anytime soon by it would be nice to come back to once all this is over and done with. [www.ruck.co.uk]

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
Abmatt 06 April, 2020 06:29
I for one would welcome him back.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
shrewsburyman 06 April, 2020 08:40
Very much so as I really rated him from day 1.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
Faithful_City 06 April, 2020 08:52
He would make a huge difference to our go forward.

JP

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
MSR-Worcester 06 April, 2020 12:23
Quote:
AJWarriors
Scrum half - How about Will Chudley MSR? Heís off contract too and I think heís a good player.

Another good shout- he's pretty much first choice at Bath so would be a good scoop. Doubt he would want to play second fiddle to Hougaard here though.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
AJWarriors 07 April, 2020 12:02
True. Could rotate between the two though?

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
AJWarriors 17 April, 2020 11:52
Just found a list of Top 14 players off contract. There are some good forwards on that list but mainly props and back row players. One guy that caught my eye that Iíd like us to replace Callum Black with if he does leave would be Loni Uhila at loosehead. The Tongan Thor! Heís good mates with Fats too. But hereís the list of players

[www.ultimaterugby.com]

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
MSR-Worcester 14 May, 2020 16:02
Updated with latest news.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
Simba 14 May, 2020 19:07
What is?

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
MSR-Worcester 14 May, 2020 19:11
Quote:
Simba
What is?

My post at the top. 20-21 squad nearly complete

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
warrior will 14 May, 2020 22:50
unfortunately I think our recruitment is over. I think its our best year in a very long time, managed to keep all of our young academy talent and some good signings, not a massive squad overall in previous years. fingers crossed the coaches hit the ground running. I do hope we sign a first choice loose head, our front row looks very weak going into next season, and with a new scrum coach coming in its a risk.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
usa warrior 14 May, 2020 23:21
Our recruitment is over. Academy details to finalise, but that's our lot.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
Faithful_City 15 May, 2020 07:44
Maybe there's some headroom for the new coaches to asses what's need and recruit accordingly through the season?

JP

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
Drutz 15 May, 2020 09:01
Quick question.

How much do you think Saracen's relegation has helped us to keep some of our talent?

Sarries normally take talent from clubs, who then look to ourselves for the replacement players.

Do you think this has had enabled us to old to the likes of Ted etc. without other teams sniffing round as they have not lost some of their top players?



Pulling the boots on for one more year

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
AJWarriors 15 May, 2020 09:09
To be honest we signed up Ted before Sarries fate was sealed. I think the club is in a different place than what it was a few years ago. I remember speaking to Kev before he left for Gloucester and he said it was down the the coaching. At that time we had one coach for attack which was Hilly and a forwards coach which I canít remember the name of and that was it.

We seem a more rounded club now with good facilities and good owners, good new coaches and a solid overall team. I think to any player that would make a big factor in deciding your future at any club let alone Worcester. I think if you speak to any current player theyíll all say they love it here.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
Drutz 15 May, 2020 09:15
I am sure that is the case AJ on the most part, but we'd be naÔve to think if a, and I don't like using the term, bigger club, came along that a player would not look at it.

The point I was trying to make is in general Sarries grab players and then this has a domino effect in the market. Do you think the lack of that happening has meant we hold on to players and getting players in too, for that?



Pulling the boots on for one more year

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
Malvern Man 15 May, 2020 09:50
The Myners' report is very good news for the likes of Worcester. If it is implemented there will at last be a level playing field.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
AJWarriors 15 May, 2020 11:10
Quote:
Drutz
I am sure that is the case AJ on the most part, but we'd be naÔve to think if a, and I don't like using the term, bigger club, came along that a player would not look at it.
The point I was trying to make is in general Sarries grab players and then this has a domino effect in the market. Do you think the lack of that happening has meant we hold on to players and getting players in too, for that?

Iíd say so yes Drutz

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
Offa 15 May, 2020 11:37
I think you make a good point, Drutz.

I seem to remember Hilly working with both Redman and Phil Davies, but in what order I can't remember.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
ROLLO 15 May, 2020 12:23
Redman was first, but had little impact. Phi Davis came, probably 8 years too late, but I have a huntch that there was someone between him and Nigel.
We also had the part time atatck coach who I thnk lived in France and Phil Vickery one day a week, who always brought RH a large bar of milk chocolate when he came. I nver realsed we were so amatuer.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
Offa 15 May, 2020 12:41
Phil Larder once a week (although once a week of Larder did seem to be enough).

I don't think the fella from Biarritz ever made it over.

It was a bit of a shambles really.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
TrueWarrior 15 May, 2020 12:46
Quote:
AJWarriors
Quote:
Drutz
I am sure that is the case AJ on the most part, but we'd be naÔve to think if a, and I don't like using the term, bigger club, came along that a player would not look at it.
The point I was trying to make is in general Sarries grab players and then this has a domino effect in the market. Do you think the lack of that happening has meant we hold on to players and getting players in too, for that?

Iíd say so yes Drutz


I guess a test of this will be if Ollie Lawrence re signs next season and for what length.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
MSR-Worcester 15 May, 2020 14:07
Quote:
Offa
Phil Larder once a week (although once a week of Larder did seem to be enough).
I don't think the fella from Biarritz ever made it over.

It was a bit of a shambles really.

Mathieu Rourre was the name, academy manager at Biarritz. Agreed that was a shambles. 3 part time coaches plus Redman and Hill. In fairness I don't think Hill was given the budget for full-time coaches and he was also forced to shut down the academy. Dean Ryan obviously had a stronger voice and wouldn't take this option lightly!

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
ROLLO 15 May, 2020 18:57
Phil Lander was way before Hill, I think in John Brains time.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
AJWarriors 15 May, 2020 20:13
Larder was Hilly Rollo. He came on board the year we beat Pirates in the Championship Final to get promoted

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
AJWarriors 16 May, 2020 11:56
Just caught this video of Warwick Schoolís highlights and Finn Smith features a lot in it. Iíd expect to see Finn and Jack Forsythe in this next seasons senior academy squad. Iíve said before Finn is outstanding at 10 but Iíve recently came across another kid from Bath called Orlando Bailey (no relation to me lol) that also plays 10. Looking ahead for England Iíd love to see those two pair up in the same way Ford and Farrell currently do. Finn was actually rated the number one prospect at fly half with Bailey rated at number two. They would absolutely tear up and not forgetting Smith from Quins too.

Warwicks highlights with Finn: [youtu.be]

Bathís Orlando Bailey: [youtu.be]

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
shrewsburyman 16 May, 2020 13:55
Thanks AJW. The scrum half is also highly rated and we really need a good young scrum half.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
AJWarriors 16 May, 2020 14:08
Quote:
shrewsburyman
Thanks AJW. The scrum half is also highly rated and we really need a good young scrum half.

Ollie Wynn?

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
Fiver 17 May, 2020 18:14
I'm hoping Simpson turns out to be the scrum half we're waiting for. He's certainly impressed me from what I've seen of him.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
AJWarriors 17 May, 2020 18:53
I agree. Heís quick, got a lovely pass and a great kicking game. I too hope he turns out to be second choice next season. Heís very good off the tee too.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
Fiver 18 May, 2020 14:21
You know what AJ, I'm actually hoping he turns out to be first choice next season. On his day Francois is world class, but I want every player to have serious competition for their shirt. I'm not sure any of the other 9s do this at the moment.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
AJWarriors 18 May, 2020 15:32
I agree or at least rotating with Francois anyway. We need everyone firing next season but Houghie hasnít really had any competition or someone who is similar in style. Simpsonís skill set is very good and his style isnít all that far off Francoisís

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
WorcesterSauce 18 May, 2020 18:39
There is no chance that anyone will pip Hougaard to the number 9 shirt at the minute especially not Simpson.

A- Hougaard is being paid too much money for us to justify leaving him out.
B- His stats still show he is one of our best players
C - On his day he is a match winner.
D - Simpson is nowhere near ready. Heaney is streets ahead.

Iíve not yet seen anything to suggest Simpson will ever be good enough. Think weíre better off waiting for the u18s lad to come through (name escapes me), who has genuine potential, before talking of replacing Hougaard.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/05/2020 18:40 by WorcesterSauce.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
kiddykid 18 May, 2020 19:09
In amongst all this talk of our squad and up and coming players letís not forget Scott van Breda.
This guy can be very good news for us.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
AJWarriors 18 May, 2020 21:15
I think we will see Van Breda in midfield next season either at 12 or 13

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
AJWarriors 18 May, 2020 21:16
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
There is no chance that anyone will pip Hougaard to the number 9 shirt at the minute especially not Simpson.
A- Hougaard is being paid too much money for us to justify leaving him out.
B- His stats still show he is one of our best players
C - On his day he is a match winner.
D - Simpson is nowhere near ready. Heaney is streets ahead.

Iíve not yet seen anything to suggest Simpson will ever be good enough. Think weíre better off waiting for the u18s lad to come through (name escapes me), who has genuine potential, before talking of replacing Hougaard.

Ollie Wynn...the next Danny Care. Heís absolutely class

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
Fiver 21 May, 2020 10:45
Whilst I'd agree that Francois is a match winner on his day, we've not seen that for a while now. It might not be his fault, maybe defences have worked him out.

I'll admit I've not seen much of Simpson, it's just the bit I did see excited me. If Ollie Wynn is as good as it's suggested, let's hope we see him sooner rather than later, after all, if you're good enough, you're old enough.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
AJWarriors 21 May, 2020 18:08
I think at times Francois forgot what he was good at. He started to show that again just before the suspension of the league. He may have been asked to play a certain way,but heís effective when he does his sniping runs and his line breaks which he hadnít been doing for a good while

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
Trent_Blue 22 May, 2020 08:44
SH really an area that needs to be looked at going forward, would be happy to slim it down to 2 senior players from 4 and improve the quality with the additional money. Hopefully one of kitto or Simpson can kick on this year. We can then have an academy player as third choice who would get game time in ECC.

TH also a slight concern in terms of back up options but letís see how we go and the back row also looks way over stocked - would expect Williams & cox to move on at a minimum to free up some wage to improve other areas.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
WorcesterSauce 22 May, 2020 09:10
The problem with Ollie Wynn is, whereas there is no doubt potential there he is still very young at 18. He still has growing and filling out to do and you just donít know how this is going to happen. He also may get a career changing injury or just not develop as well as we think. There are so many examples, even at our club, of young players considered to be the next big thing and it just never materialising (Will Butler and a more position relevant example of Clive Stuart Smith are just two of those names that immediately spring to mind).

Saying that, he is very well regarded so if we get lucky and his development goes well, we have a gem on our hand. I donít think heíll be ready for 3/4 seasons however which could coincide nicely with Hougaard moving on.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
AJWarriors 22 May, 2020 09:47
Quote:
Trent_Blue
SH really an area that needs to be looked at going forward, would be happy to slim it down to 2 senior players from 4 and improve the quality with the additional money. Hopefully one of kitto or Simpson can kick on this year. We can then have an academy player as third choice who would get game time in ECC.
TH also a slight concern in terms of back up options but letís see how we go and the back row also looks way over stocked - would expect Williams & cox to move on at a minimum to free up some wage to improve other areas.

Both Williams and Coxy have another year Trent Blue, but Iíd imagine both in all due respect wonít be offered fresh terms when their current deals expire. Back Row is an attritional position, but I agree it is a bit packed in that area and I also feel we have better prospects coming through in their positions such as Monks.

Also I agree on tighthead. There will be a few top earners off contract next season so looking ahead the quality in tighthead and loosehead depth is something Iíd hope the coaches address.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
TrueWarrior 22 May, 2020 10:16
I imagine that Cox, Van Velze, Black, Williams and potentially Weir will be off the books next season. If we can get another genuine prem starter at loosehead, tighthead and scrum half, that is a top 6 squad IMO on paper. Assuming of course that none of our academy players do become this option which I could see Kai Owen doing.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
AJWarriors 22 May, 2020 11:46
Kai definitely has the ability and 100% the mentality to make it to the top. Heís held his own against an All Black so that bodes well for his future. Heís very good in open play and very mobile which Calum isnít. Iíd still hope we brought in a proven loosehead, but Kai currently going into next season as 3rd choice instead of Bower is without doubt the right thing to do. He will hopefully steadily get more high end game time and experience.

As for those names you mention barring Weir I can also see those guys leaving. I think GJ will end up fully concentrating on his shoe business and I think Pens may actually call it a day depending on how next year goes. I think/hope Nanai will be playing at full back and i think Shilly will be his back up.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
AJWarriors 27 May, 2020 02:56
Joe Batleyís highlights!

[www.instagram.com]

Heís actually exceptionally quick for his size. Runs some great lines, has great hands and is definitely that enforcer lock we all wanted. He looks really good at 8 too. Wouldnít mind seeing how he goes in that position a few times next season

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
Sheldon 27 May, 2020 11:06
Really very impressive.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
shrewsburyman 27 May, 2020 12:37
I see what you mean about him being pretty useful as a number 8! However at the moment he and Kitch could be a useful second row.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
AJWarriors 27 May, 2020 14:03
Definitely! If we recruited another enforcer lock next season then Iíd like to see him at 8. Heís extremely mobile which surprised me

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
Bevere Warrior 27 May, 2020 20:22
I think Batley is the player out of the three new signings that Iím most excited about.
We could have got ourselves a real gem and the type of player we have been crying out for.
Fingers crossed he can stay injury free.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
shrewsburyman 27 May, 2020 21:54
I agree BW and this is a better squad than this season.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
MSR-Worcester 28 May, 2020 10:31
If we look at the incomings and outgoings I think it's difficult to say this for certain. On the whole I think we've improved but Mills will be a bit loss and cumulative loss of experience may be telling.


Bower > Owen. Owen has more potential and Bower was not going to challenge starters. +
Taufete'e > Cutting. Taufete'e never really delivered on his potential but too early to say if Cutting is ready for Premiership rugby. +-
Fatialofa > Batley. Obviously terribly sad that Fatialofa won't be playing rugby anymore. Batley seems like a good squad player to challenge Bresler/Kitch. +-
? > Kvesic. No back rows have left so Kvesic coming in can only boost squad depth. ++
Lance > Searle. I liked Jono but in injury record/goalkicking sometimes let him down. Searle is exciting and will add something different. +
Mills > ? - No centres to replace Mills. Obviously Butler/Lawrence will step up but do we need a second distributor in the backline? -
Hammond > Hearle Hammond didn't really feature much and was plagued by injury. Hopefully Hearle gets a shot in first team next season. +

I also don't agree that this is our best squad on paper. Think in 17-18 when we had the likes of Adams/Heem/Willison/Denton/Spencer/DOC/Olivier we really under-delivered.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
BantamWarrior 28 May, 2020 11:02
Fair analysis MSR. I agree with all your points, but I think the deciding factor will be whether Lawrence steps up. Reading his interview in TRP I am hopeful that he will be more than Mills was, and that his maverick nature and personal drive will make up for losing Mill's experience.

As always, at the beginning of the season I am full of hope and optimism.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
TrueWarrior 28 May, 2020 11:19
Quote:
BantamWarrior
Fair analysis MSR. I agree with all your points, but I think the deciding factor will be whether Lawrence steps up. Reading his interview in TRP I am hopeful that he will be more than Mills was, and that his maverick nature and personal drive will make up for losing Mill's experience.
As always, at the beginning of the season I am full of hope and optimism.


Mills was 4th choice for us last season and clearly was not on his best form. I do think we looked a lot better with Lawrence at 13 and Beck/Venter at 12. I would say in the backs that we seem to lack someone with a bit of power to get over the gain line. We probably took for granted how good Heem was at doing that off first phase (as well as making defenders look silly on a regular basis.) My concern about Beck and Venter would be that they both seem to have injury issues. With Mills leaving, we do lose an emergency, 3rd choice fly half option. I have my doubts about Searle as well.

In regards to the the above point about squad depth, Taufaute could not throw at the lineout so I would imagine most hookers would be an upgrade. I don't think we ever saw the best of Fats and he certainly gave away a few pens when he played so will be interesting to see how Batley goes.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 28/05/2020 11:27 by TrueWarrior.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
shrewsburyman 28 May, 2020 13:00
Sorry MSR I have to disagree a little. We have plenty of cover at hooker and I donít see Joe as a loss because of his throwing. From what Iíve seen Searle is a decent replacement for Jono and Batley could be the player weíve been looking for. Time will tell on that front. Lawrence is exciting and on the way up while Mills seemed to be going backwards perhaps the change of scene will help him. Our younger players will have an extra year. Hence Iím hopeful about next season.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
Garym 28 May, 2020 14:56
In all honesty, I see us as bottom 4 next season along with falcons, Tigers and one from LI, Wasps. The optimist refers back to a quote from Ben Kay before one of the last televised games and he said we had lost the last 5 games by a total of 15(?) points and two wins out of that lot would have us challenging for top 6, the pessimist in me says same old, same old. Itís never boring!

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
ROLLO 28 May, 2020 15:14
What is on paper and what is on the pitch are not always the same thing.
I think that Kevsic will make a difference , but it was not a weak area in the first place.
From the list you give MRS-W I think that it is Willison, Spencer and Denton that we missed along of course with Adams and Heem later. We may have replaced Spencer and Denton but we have in no way replaced the two wingers ( on present evidence at least )

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
AJWarriors 28 May, 2020 15:43
I agree on the wingers. For me it is the area in the squad that is glaring at me. I agree on almost all MSRís analysis of the squad, but for me Bec hasnít been promoted/brought in to replace him. Joe for me was effectively 3rd choice last season and being pushed for that spot by Miller

I think in all due respect to Fats that Batley offers more in almost every department than Fats in terms of physicality, speed and ability. He potentially will be a certain starter rather than a challenger to Bresler too.

In terms of Millsy itís a difficult one. Yes he definitely lost form last season that was pretty evident, but as MSR said heís a top player, but he has still yet to be capped by England. Ollie is on a different level completely in my opinion and he will be capped by England sooner rather than later if not a future possible Lions player too, Iím pretty confident in saying that. Theyíre different style of players but in my opinion Ollieís ability eclipses Millsyís and i honestly think he will become one of the best in the world. I donít think losing Mills is much of a negative although I would have loved to have seen a Mills/Lawrence combination, but having said that Mills leaving has freeíd up an awful lot of money to concentrate on areas of the team that need addressing. Also our style of play now doesnít suit Millsyís. Looking out our midfield options, theyíre all line breakers/runners of the ball and Millsy didnít really do that.

Good analysis by MSR though. Hopefully the wing situation might be addressed next year. Although Iíd like to see David and possibly Hearle take their chances and turn out to be wonderkids. They both have the ability and potential



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28/05/2020 15:45 by AJWarriors.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
MSR-Worcester 28 May, 2020 16:05
I agree with all your comments about Lawrence. He's a quality prospect but centre is an attritional position and in the past we've gone through 5/6 centres in a season. We also need players with different playing styles to suit certain gameplans and weather conditions. Mills, whilst not at his peak recently, offered a kicking option and quality passing game. Beck/Venter for me don't have his distribution skills.

Our wingers are also weak. Especially when you consider some of guys coming into the premiership Nadolo, Radradra, Sinoti, etc. I think part of this was how they were being used, our backline game dropped off last year, partly with Mills' loss in form but we missed guys like Adams/Heem would go looking for work. I think Nanai struggled to adjust to NH rugby and Fidow/Howe/Humphreys all had mixed form.

Taufete'e had his issues in the lineout. But I've only seem Cutting in one game and he had similar struggles. I agree we're probably debating our 4th choice hooker but my overall point is we're replacing experienced premiership guys with unproven players.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
AJWarriors 28 May, 2020 17:11
Yea I can understand that. We do miss Heem and Adams massively, but I hold hope that one of those guys I mentioned previously can have the same impact Adams did by coming out of nowhere Hearle has the physicality and speed to make the grade, whereas Nick is for me is an exciting player but physically slight. I think Fidow could be the physical winger not too dissimilar to Heem in terms of bumping players off..but then again Heem was in a league of his own. Fidow seemed to have been coming into form before the lockdown and showed what heís capable of with that try against Sarries and has that typical Somaon direct winger style. Heís also exceptionally quick. I just donít think we have seen enough of him yet. As for Nanai as Iíve said previously, he needs to start at 15, but all in all I agree currently on the quality of wingers.

I do completely get what you say on the different style 12 too and I definitely agree with that. Will Butler is that distributor 12, but he simply just needs to stay fit for more than a few games to prove if heís good enough at prem level. Iíve no doubt he is but injuries and the length of time heís sometimes out for is an issue for him that I hope he overcomes.

I do go into next season with huge optimism, but I do almost every season as most of us do. Next season though I can see the pack being a major weapon/platform for us as I think we have added some real quality with Kev and Batley coming in. We needed that extra bit of weight and also have a guy in Kev who can regularly turnover ball.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
shrewsburyman 28 May, 2020 17:40
If we are looking back to the year before last then the loss of Heam, Spencer, Denton and Adams was massive and we can all agree about that. That particular season I enjoyed the rugby as much if not more than season since Division 5! But Iím hopeful when you compare this yearís squad with last yearís. Then then there is the new coaching team and that is a big unknown at the moment. I happen to think that we have recruited well both from the point of view of the players and also financially.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
TrueWarrior 28 May, 2020 17:44
If we do indeed start with Hill, Lewis and Kvesic (which would be my first choice back row), we have 3 genuine lineout options(SRs and Hill) and Kev as a good option which makes our lineout much harder to defend. If Nanai plays at full back, Fidow, Humph, Hearle and David should be an average (potentially good) crop of wingers. We certainly have not replaced Heem or Adams and this has to be a priority for next season - as does a new SH.

As always, I am optimistic at the start of the season but much will depend on the first few games. Our attack was poor to put it mildly last season but I am hoping a new attack coach/general coaching set up will help that. One would also hope that Kev coming from a set up like Exeter will raise standards and demand on others - he would be my choice for captain either this season or next.

Re: 2020-21 Worcester squad
AJWarriors 28 May, 2020 17:56
Thereís so many options/combinations in the back row that I think itís by far our strongest position going into next season. We can choose a combination based on whatís in front of us so we could go power game with Ted,Kev and Cornell, but I really like the idea of two opensides in the back row with Ted,Kev and Lewis. It would put so much pressure on the breakdown. I wouldnít mind seeing Kev at 6,Lewis at 7 and Ted at 8 to be honest. Ted runs through people like theyíre not even there.

Going by how JT and Iro has Bristolís forwards playing like backs last season Iím enthusiastic they can do the same with ours.


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