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Tuilagi
Discussion started by w4rriorz1980 , 01 July, 2020 18:54
Tuilagi
w4rriorz1980 01 July, 2020 18:54
....is one of 6 to be released by Tiggers.

Yes we're well stocked @ centre but if the budget allowed i wouldn't say no!

France or Japan beckons i think.I assume every clubs transfer & contract business is over including ours!

Re: Tuilagi
AJWarriors 01 July, 2020 19:22
Donít think anyone would. Iíd love to see him and Lawrence at centre, it would cause mayhem, but sadly I donít see it happening as much as id love to

Re:
shrewsburyman 01 July, 2020 19:31
Yes I noticed that six players had refused the contracts that they had been offered. Not too impressed with Tuilagi over this when you consider the amount of games that he has plated for Tigers because of injury.

Re: Tuilagi
tigerburnie 01 July, 2020 19:40
Latest gossip is Genge and Ford are staying but others including Manu are off
[www.msn.com]

Re: Tuilagi
ROLLO 01 July, 2020 19:54
I am not sure how complimentary Tuilai and Lawrences skills are , also not sure about injury record, England duty and atttuade. Otherwise OK.

Re: Tuilagi
AJWarriors 01 July, 2020 20:16
Iím not sure any team would turn their nose up at the opportunity to sign Manu up. But each to their own I guess

Re: Tuilagi
shrewsburyman 01 July, 2020 20:44
Off to Beziers

Re: Tuilagi
Abmatt 01 July, 2020 21:52
He would end up the same as teo for us. Injured or on international duty.

No thanks.

Re: Tuilagi
TrueWarrior 01 July, 2020 21:58
With his injury record and amount of time he spends with England, I'm not sure he would be worth the investment. Of the players that have been stood down by Tigers and rumoured to leave, the only 2 I would have wanted would be Genge and Taufua, although where Taufua would fit I have no idea. I wouldn't have wanted Ford as fly half is such a key position, I dont think you can justify paying 700k for a player that plays for the club in 50-60% of eligible matches in the season (assuming they stayed injury free.)

It does start to raise the question in whether it is worth having players who play for England and if you do, how many you would have. The value for money doesn't seem to be there for me. Before COVID, Genge, Ford and Tuilagi accounted for 25% of Tigers Salary Cap (apart from marquee players). Does not seem conducive to building a well-balanced squad.

Re: Tuilagi
WorcesterSauce 01 July, 2020 21:58
Are we well stocked at centre? To my mind we have three with the addition of SVB if Solly ever decides to play him (and even then itís his third choice position after 10 and 15). Hearle may be able to cover but heís more of a winger and Butler will inevitably be injured. Genuinely think that we could do with one more. Obviously Tuilagi would be great, but realistically it wonít happen. Kyle Eastmond has also been released and whereas he isnít perhaps the player he once was, he would be decent back up.

Re: Tuilagi
AJWarriors 01 July, 2020 22:22
Looks that way with SVB. I think heís perfect for that position with the skill set he has. Iíd like to see him play there more now at 12/13 seeing as Shilly will probably be used more at full back next season.

Re: Tuilagi
centrethere 01 July, 2020 23:02
Did i hear that Teo would be eligible to play for the British Lions rugby league team now?

Re: Tuilagi
lokicrichtonfan 01 July, 2020 23:15
Kyle Eastmond would be a good signing

Re: Tuilagi
TrueWarrior 02 July, 2020 07:20
Would donate my season ticket money again for him not to come. Defensive liability and not sure he offers anything in attack any more

Re: Tuilagi
shrewsburyman 02 July, 2020 08:06
Manu and the other leavers have engaged solicitors looks like things are going to get messy at Tigers. It seems that there is a little unrest at LI as well.

Re: Tuilagi
AJWarriors 02 July, 2020 08:06
I wouldnít be too keen on Eastmond either to be honest. I donít think heís any better than what we currently have.

Re: Tuilagi
TVM Rides Again 02 July, 2020 08:30
Well, isn't it nice to have a relatively happy ship compared to those around us in the table at least?

Re: Tuilagi
AJWarriors 02 July, 2020 08:44
First time since I can remember for us! Itís usually us that goes through turmoil but we seem to be a very well ran club now hopefully

Re: Tuilagi
TVM Rides Again 02 July, 2020 09:19
We are - Colin and Jason seem to be slowly laying their foundations.

And just to think that the former golden boy Edward Griffith's projects have rumbled from crisis to crisis...

It'll all work out for the best

Re: Tuilagi
Warriordad 02 July, 2020 09:56
I don't think it is a question of whether Eastmond is better than what we have, I think it is more about can he give us something different and for me the answer would be best. We need a team that is capable of tactical change and Eastmond is very much a second distributor. We have lost that will Mills going.

Re: Tuilagi
WorcesterSauce 02 July, 2020 10:01
Precisely Warriordad. Is Eastmond better than Lawrence? Absolutely not. Is he better than Ventor or Beck? Probably not, but thatís not to say heís a bad player and importantly gives us depth in a position where we are a bit light. If we get just 2 injuries at centres we are down to no back up (i donít consider Hearle as a centre). Eastmond would therefore be a valuable fringe player.

FWIW I donít think itíll happen. We are clearly dipping into the market sparingly this year, which is not necessarily a bad thing but we could have had signed some right gems given the Jaguares have disbanded, a load of Sarries players have left (albeit temporarily) and now Leicester have released a load of players.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2020 10:03 by WorcesterSauce.

Re: Tuilagi
Garym 02 July, 2020 10:19
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Precisely Warriordad. Is Eastmond better than Lawrence? Absolutely not. Is he better than Ventor or Beck? Probably not, but thatís not to say heís a bad player and importantly gives us depth in a position where we are a bit light. If we get just 2 injuries at centres we are down to no back up (i donít consider Hearle as a centre). Eastmond would therefore be a valuable fringe player.
FWIW I donít think itíll happen. We are clearly dipping into the market sparingly this year, which is not necessarily a bad thing but we could have had signed some right gems given the Jaguares have disbanded, a load of Sarries players have left (albeit temporarily) and now Leicester have released a load of players.

But it all costs money and isn't that what has got rugby into the mess that it is now in - hopefully no relegation again next season and the youngster can play without fear of relegation



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2020 15:39 by Garym.

Re: Tuilagi
WorcesterSauce 02 July, 2020 11:11
Of course - there is a price on Eastmond and it probably isnít worth it. But if two of Lawrence, Ventor and Beck get unlucky and go down with long term injuries we could be struggling. Just feel we havenít quite got the balance right yet. We have 3/4 centres yet 10 back rowers.

Re: Tuilagi
Bevere Warrior 02 July, 2020 11:22
Isnít it nice that that for once itís not our players leaving, itís not our club involved in drama!
The club should be applauded for sorting all these contracts and offering some sort of security in such a turbulent time.
Feel genuinely very positive about our club at the moment and canít wait for the season to get started (whenever that will be).

Re: Tuilagi
Warriordad 02 July, 2020 13:51
I think what surprises me is that these players will get less than 75% of their current pay at other clubs. Players had to sign a contract last week for only 75% of that to count towards the salary cap and these players have missed that boat. Other clubs will be right on that Salary cap as a result of it dropping. I can only see moves abroad for the vast majority of them, probably to Japan? Based on the above, i'd say these players wanted to leave regardless of salary issues.

Re: Tuilagi
kiddykid 02 July, 2020 21:50
What does this mean for the England team IF the RFU stick to their guns?
It does open up more opportunities for Ďborderlineí players if the numbers emigrating continue to grow - and we havenít heard about Maro Itoje yet.

Re: Tuilagi
Asterz 02 July, 2020 23:18
Sabbaticals work for NZ players, for example.

Re: Tuilagi
TrueWarrior 03 July, 2020 07:25
If we need a tactical change, I would rather it came through Searle playing 10 than pairing Eastmond and Weir together. One of the reasons I think our attack struggled last season is teams drifted off 10 and 12 - they knew Weir and Mills were not a threat running it so could drift off them and shut down outside backs space.

The same would happen with Eastmond IMO. Dont rate him as a player either. Would rather go after Noel Reid than Eastmond.

I hope Worcester dont sign any players on the market in all honesty. Imagine being told by the club you need to take a 25% pay cut and then magically, the club can afford to pay a player coming in 100-150k. Would ruin squad morale no end.

Re: Tuilagi
Offa 03 July, 2020 08:39
Agree with TrueWarrior.
I know he didn't play much for us, but Teo certainly held the opposition defences.

I suspect that we are quite a happy squad at present and that can count for a lot. Saints too appear to be a happy bunch, and Exeter seem to have earned the right to take top young talent from other teams (and we certainly know how much that hurts).

I don't understand Sarries. How will they pay all those who are due to return to them after next season?

Re: Tuilagi
kiddykid 03 July, 2020 10:13
I wish that Jamie Gibson ( ex SaInts) could play lock. A really good player I think - and he is available.

Re: Tuilagi
usa warrior 03 July, 2020 11:48
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Of course - there is a price on Eastmond and it probably isnít worth it. But if two of Lawrence, Ventor and Beck get unlucky and go down with long term injuries we could be struggling. Just feel we havenít quite got the balance right yet. We have 3/4 centres yet 10 back rowers.

I'd suggest it's deeper than that, albeit some haven't had much game time and are not proven at the top level...

Beck
Ventor
Lawrence
Butler
Hearle
van Breda

I wouldn't advocate bringing in any of the Tigers bunch. Could, potentially, be an unnecessary distraction for us and stymies someone's progression. Not the message that we want to send if we are youth focused.

Point taken about we haven't got a like for like Mills replacement. He's a ball-playing 12, but has not been effective for some time. Whether that's systems or form, I don't know. Maybe a combination.

Re: Tuilagi
4934 03 July, 2020 12:10
Agree USA.

And if there is money available and if there is an appetite to spend, (both doubtful) any newcomer would have to accord with the Solomons blueprint and fit in with the squad.

Re: Tuilagi
Offa 03 July, 2020 12:26
Millsy served us well, and I am grateful for his efforts.
He has some sublime skills.
However, for me, his weakness was in decision making. I still feel that he lost us as many games as he won us. He may flourish at Wasps and I wish him well. He is likely being groomed as a successor to Gopperth, but he has a long way to go to fill those boots.

As far as like for like goes, maybe Butler could in time be the man. And I have heard Solly say his decision making is good and he doesn't make mistakes.

Re: Tuilagi
WorcesterSauce 03 July, 2020 13:53
Quote:
usa warrior
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Of course - there is a price on Eastmond and it probably isnít worth it. But if two of Lawrence, Ventor and Beck get unlucky and go down with long term injuries we could be struggling. Just feel we havenít quite got the balance right yet. We have 3/4 centres yet 10 back rowers.

I'd suggest it's deeper than that, albeit some haven't had much game time and are not proven at the top level...

Beck
Ventor
Lawrence
Butler
Hearle
van Breda

I wouldn't advocate bringing in any of the Tigers bunch. Could, potentially, be an unnecessary distraction for us and stymies someone's progression. Not the message that we want to send if we are youth focused.

Point taken about we haven't got a like for like Mills replacement. He's a ball-playing 12, but has not been effective for some time. Whether that's systems or form, I don't know. Maybe a combination.

As i said tongue in cheek, Butler will be inevitably injured but even if he isnít I havenít see any evidence to suggest he is good enough. Heíll be 23 next season and has still barely played. Of course not all his fault but I canít see him staying with us beyond his current contract unless he rapidly finds some form, and fitness.

Also think Hearle will turn more into a winger as time progresses but who knows.

I donít think we will sign any more but it would be a pretty naive transfer policy going forward to not sign players from other clubs just because we donít want to stifle growth kf youngsters. Whereas a balance is of course needed, especially with our emphasis on developing young talent, you also need genuine strength in depth. In centre we simply donít at the moment despite it being an extremely physically demanding position. If we go into any game with Hearle or/and Butler (which is very possible) iíd expect us to struggle big time in the centres.

Re: Tuilagi
usa warrior 03 July, 2020 14:13
Equally, how many do you require? I'd suggest 6 centre's for two positions isn't too bad. Three of whom are pretty experienced, Lawrence is quality, and two development.

Hearle was a wing, but Solly see's him as a centre. He's a big unit.

Re: Tuilagi
Underdog 03 July, 2020 14:57
I've got high hopes for Butler. He was in the u20s team for a few years and not on the basis on physical size or power, suggesting he's got a good head for the game. I remember noticing him being a nuisance at the ruck in a few of those games too. Where he's played he has also shown up well in attack- Saints away last season springs to mind. Yeah, he's 23 but several of the academy players seem to have taken that long to get into the first team. Lots of them do degrees as well as play in the academy. We don't need him to get 40 caps for England (though it would be nice), we just need him to be a solid pro.

I agree with the sentiments of others expressed above regarding our tactical ability. Mills allowed us to play expansively which was very helpful when we had Heem and Adams on the wings. We now seem to have changed slightly, so that our centres are quick, tough players who look for weak shoulders or use footwork to go forward. This is good news for industrious wingers like Humphreys who roam across the park. It's also why Nanai has to play full back, as he seemed very similar to Adams to me - hanging around on the wing waiting to be put into space. Not a criticism.

Of course all of that could prove to be a load of rubbish if Sherratt decides to completely alter the shape of our attack.

Re: Tuilagi
ROLLO 03 July, 2020 15:14
Cenre is an attritinal position so we will have to hope for good fortune on the injury front.
Worcester Sauce we should bear in mind that Pennell was injured a couple of times in his early career but look what happenend when we kept faith .

Re: Tuilagi
WorcesterSauce 03 July, 2020 16:03
The number of centres is surely only as good as the quality they provide. If 2 of the 6 arenít up to it then bringing in people to replace them is no bad thing. I guess itís all futile as we wonít be bringing in Eastmond but I suppose the wider point is we shouldnít just rely on our academy because that is what we want to do. If we are weak in certain positions we should dip into the market... hopefully we donít suffer any significant injuries at centre until next summer otherwise i fear we could struggle and it could make a huge dent in someone like Hearleís confidence.

Agree with that Rollo Iím just yet to see much to suggest Butler will be all that. He also seems to have had even worse luck than CP, which is blO0dy unlucky and I think his size would be a problem if playing week in week out.

Re: Tuilagi
Fiver 03 July, 2020 16:36
I'd always been sceptical about Butler, but then he always proved me wrong when I watched him. I think he'll do just fine. Didn't he captain the England U20s, or just the Cavs?

Re: Tuilagi
AJWarriors 03 July, 2020 17:07
Think it was just the Cavs Fiver although he was one of the main men for the U20ís and stood out in the Junior World Cup. Itís just his injury record that hasnít seen him progress as quickly as he should have

Re: Tuilagi
Malvern Man 03 July, 2020 17:20
Yes, he's very unlucky. I was at Northampton once and he scored two tries in about 20 minutes and then went off injured.

Re: Tuilagi
Faithful_City 04 July, 2020 06:58
Sorry to say but I also do not Ďthink he will make it at premiership level.

Although he does remind me a lot of John Dawes and John Spencer but much smaller and that is his biggest problem. The size and speed of opposition backrows will make it extremely difficult for him.

JP

Re: Tuilagi
shrewsburyman 04 July, 2020 08:20
I too hope that he does well but like JP have been concerned about his size which is much more of an issue in the Premiership as opposed to the age group teams. From what Iíve seen SVB looks to have a fairly robust constitution so I would hope that he can fill in on the subs bench. Iíve always felt that it was worth bringing him on at the end of a close game for a long range penalty effort.

Re: Tuilagi
WorcesterSauce 04 July, 2020 08:57
Agree with SM and FC. I remember his cameo against saints and whereas he scored two tries (one of which was a very simple stroll in), he was targeted in defence, which is possibly why he is so injury prone. Not sure youíll find many (any?) centres as small as him and as SM says, Prem rugby is a completely different kettle of fish than age grade rugby. Hope iím proved wrong but canít seenhim making it with us.

Re: Tuilagi
Fiver 04 July, 2020 13:46
Will is almost the same size as Nick Tompkins, an inch sorted and 2 kilos lighter. That's similar enough for me. Size hasn't held Tompkins back.

Re: Tuilagi
shrewsburyman 04 July, 2020 14:27
We all hope that it doesnít.

Re: Tuilagi
Offa 04 July, 2020 15:25
Taller and heavier than Kyle Eastmond too.

Re: Tuilagi
everycloud 04 July, 2020 17:37
Word is that he has some sublime skills too, and yes he captained the Under 20s. Class player who will serve us well I think

Re: Tuilagi
Faithful_City 04 July, 2020 17:37
But not as tough or aggressive

Re: Tuilagi
AJWarriors 04 July, 2020 18:24
Guys letís get behind our own. Give the guy a chance and see what he can do before knocking him down

Re: Tuilagi
Garym 04 July, 2020 18:37
Quote:
AJWarriors
Guys letís get behind our own. Give the guy a chance and see what he can do before knocking him down

Just keep reminding JP on his comments about Tim Collier before he had pulled a shirt on for us all those years ago 😀

Re: Tuilagi
WorcesterSauce 04 July, 2020 19:47
Quote:
everycloud
Word is that he has some sublime skills too, and yes he captained the Under 20s. Class player who will serve us well I think

Very pleasantly surprised to learn that he is bigger than Eastmond, perhaps he has bulkier than I thought. Having not seen him play for so long it is genuinely difficult to remember but i expect he has perhaps used his numerous injury lay offs to bulk up.

His skill set isnít sublime IMO. Good players absolutely shine in A League games and he never pulled up any trees. On the the other hand players like Benjamin, Hill and Lawrence made the A League look easy from a young age.

I really hope he makes it but iíd be very worried if we lined up with a centre partnership of Butler and Hearle at any point in the next couple of seasons.

Re: Tuilagi
shrewsburyman 12 July, 2020 09:41
Todayís paper says heís off to Sale.

Re: Tuilagi
centrethere 13 July, 2020 00:00
picture Tuilagi vs Butler. Certainly happy that Tuilagi isn't headed our way

Re: Tuilagi
Abmatt 13 July, 2020 12:27
Confirmed to sale.

Re: Tuilagi
Offa 13 July, 2020 12:38
But Dimes had absolutely not been talking to him???

Re: Tuilagi
AJWarriors 13 July, 2020 13:20
Typical Dimes. It made me laugh when I saw that he said that. When he says heís not talking to a player it categorically means that he is. He may as well just admit it next time lol

Re: Tuilagi
lokicrichtonfan 13 July, 2020 16:59
Iím amazed there are fans out there who didnt want to sign Tuilagi. Although this guy has had injury problems and would take time off playing for England, he has won the Prem and has experience at international level + Lions. Surely this is the sort of player we want to attract? Perhaps a few still scarred from Teío stealing a living

Re: Tuilagi
tigerburnie 13 July, 2020 17:45
As I said elsewhere, we will miss him, he was great for us when he played, problem was that wasn't very often .

Re: Tuilagi
Abmatt 13 July, 2020 19:10
Quote:
lokicrichtonfan
Iím amazed there are fans out there who didnt want to sign Tuilagi. Although this guy has had injury problems and would take time off playing for England, he has won the Prem and has experience at international level + Lions. Surely this is the sort of player we want to attract? Perhaps a few still scarred from Teío stealing a living

No thanks. Over a 10 year career he played on average less that 10 games a season for tigers.

Re: Tuilagi
kiddykid 13 July, 2020 21:53
Should we be adding Sale to the teams we reckon who could be over the salary cap - or am I being over-suspicious?

Re: Tuilagi
Offa 13 July, 2020 23:18
Not sure anybody would be stupid enough to now.

Re: Tuilagi
lokicrichtonfan 13 July, 2020 23:21
Believe they got their highest paid player off the books in Ashton meaning funds would be freed up for this move

Re: Tuilagi
Fiver 14 July, 2020 10:15
Am I right in thinking we got a better return out of Te'o than Tiggers got from Manu? Didn't Te'o average something like 12 games a season for us? He's a great player when he plays, but I'd suggest there's more to consider.

Re: Tuilagi
PMB 14 July, 2020 12:29
Considering the support he was given while injured which was quite a lot in recent years there does appear to be a lack of loyalty on display. One gets the feeling that he has taken a cut in moving anyway in order to be considered for England duty.
The Rugby Paper seems to think that players wages may be on a downward trend in the future with less money about so it will be interesting to see how things develop.

Re: Tuilagi
shrewsburyman 14 July, 2020 13:13
I agree PMB though I have read recently that he had to pay for his own rehab and his wages were linked to appearances. However Iíve no idea if this is true!

Re: Tuilagi
lokicrichtonfan 15 July, 2020 04:07
He was paid partly by a cleaning company that was set up in his name upon arrival to Worcester. Said company would clean the premises for a price and he would take all the cheddar home.

I hope for the clubs sake they donít undertake this way of paying players still what with everything going on with Sarries.

Re: Tuilagi
James_P 15 July, 2020 09:29
Quote:
kiddykid
Should we be adding Sale to the teams we reckon who could be over the salary cap - or am I being over-suspicious?

Lot of people missed the fact that most sides got a lot of players on new deals before June 18th. In the case of Sale this was reportedly their entire squad so only 75% of the salary of every member of their squad counts towards the salary cap. Given the salary cap actually stays the same next year, even if they didn't cut a penny from each player they would have 25% of their cap free for next season on that basis.

This is how Exeter have just announced 30 new deals signed before the deadline for 3 or 4 years ensuring they can keep Hogg etc for the entire duration of the lower salary cap without requiring Hogg, Slade etc to take a pay cut. As a Bris fan I wouldn't be at all surprised if we announce that we have done something similar in the next few weeks. Makes a mockery of the attempts to lower the cap but I guess it was the only way clubs would vote it through.

Re: Tuilagi
ROLLO 15 July, 2020 14:33
James_P so the clubs voted for something they could get around. What does that tell us ?

Re: Tuilagi
James_P 15 July, 2020 20:06
Quote:
ROLLO
James_P so the clubs voted for something they could get around. What does that tell us ?

That there wasn't ever the league wide appetite for a lower salary cap, despite some clubs using this as a somewhat dishonest explanation for wholesale salary cuts for their squads. Exeter have come out in their statement and basically declared that they won't be affected by the cuts, Sale already have shown they are not impacted. From the reports at the time Bristol, Quins and Saints are all in a similar position.

Seems counterintuitive but from the way this seems to be shaping up, the clubs with lower income desperate for a lower cap are actually going to be at an even greater disadvantage than they were under the 7m cap. As they'll still be competing against teams spending 7m while they themselves are constrained to 5m.


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