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Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
Discussion started by Garym , 21 July, 2020 17:18
Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
Garym 21 July, 2020 17:18
From limited viewing of the TRP article, it seems that the the latest review (from Ed Griffiths)says expand the championship to 16 and create two leagues north and south. 8 team play off to decide the winner and playoff to decide who gets relegated. No talk of promotion, only a view that the gap is now too big and they want to return to grass routes rugby. Almost gives the green light for the premiership to ring fence. Interesting times, in some ways it makes a lot of sense, but then pirates and Ealing might have something to say

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
Offa 21 July, 2020 17:58
And Sarries ;-)

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
Faithful_City 21 July, 2020 18:02
Sarries are share holders in PRL, so safe.

Ring fencing is on its way, with the ability for any other club to apply for membership up to a maximum of 16 clubs.

JP

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
WorcesterSauce 21 July, 2020 22:52
15th vs 16th in March would be fun.... not!

Being a Worcester fan could be about to become quite dull.

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
Malvern Man 22 July, 2020 09:47
"Being a Worcester fan could be about to become quite dull."

Absolutely, without relegation virtually every game since 2004 would have been meaningless.

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
Fiver 22 July, 2020 14:12
It must be really dull to be a fan of most clubs, as they've relied on us, Irish, Welsh and Newcastle for the relegation scraps. Knowing that either Sarries or Chiefs would win the league, other club's fans must have been dozing off for the second half of each season.

I enjoy watching Super Rugby (NZ mainly) and the lack of relegation hasn't made any difference, although admittedly I'm not a fan of any particular team. I guess what it proves is that you can enjoy watching rugby for the sake of watching rugby, as opposed to there having to be something to play for.

Each to their own I guess.

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
WorcesterSauce 22 July, 2020 14:21
The prem works so well because you have nearly every team going for something throughout the season. It isn’t winner and relegation and that’s it, is it? It’s winner, top 4, top 6, recently 7th for a champions cup play off and relegation. Take out relegation and add teams in for a -4 or 16 team league and it takes all of the drama out of it. It’s no coincidence that our biggest gates (take out the annual big gate vs Gloucester) are almost always because they have either promotion or relegation riding on it. We will become a really boring club without it and as Malvern Man says, all of our games since 2004 will have been meaningless.

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
Faithful_City 22 July, 2020 14:47
Never meaningless for me Saucie.

I love watching the game, I love the camaraderie, I love the beer and I absolutely love winning.

A closed shop will change things definitely but never be afraid of change, it might get better.

Summer Rugby - can’t wait.

JP

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
Fiver 22 July, 2020 15:02
We're all different, which is why I dislike the idea that opinion becomes fact. I personally don't care where we are in the league, I want to turn up, chat to the folks in the south stand, and watch us try to win a game of rugby, preferably in the premiership. It's the game I enjoy, but I'll admit I enjoy it less if we're playing to not lose, as opposed to playing to win. As such, I don't enjoy the relegation scraps as much.

If our biggest gates are at the end of the season to Gloucester, it's just about possible this could be because the weather is better and the away fans have less distance to travel. Also, Worcester locals come out because it's the local rival, and probably have mates who support Gloucester.

I'm not so sure people come out to watch a team in the hope they don't get relegated, certainly none of my friends will. There may well be more away fans as they might expect to get a win.

Still, it's not for us to decide, people way up the pay grades will do that for us, doubtfully paying any attention to what any of us want.

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
WorcesterSauce 22 July, 2020 15:34
Quote:
Faithful_City
Never meaningless for me Saucie.
I love watching the game, I love the camaraderie, I love the beer and I absolutely love winning.

A closed shop will change things definitely but never be afraid of change, it might get better.

Summer Rugby - can’t wait.

JP

Not too bothered about summer or winter rugby but I don’t see how taking out a part of the game that generates so much interest could ever make things better? How anyone could want a system that would mean there are no more games like the Bristol play off final again is genuinely beyond me.

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
Faithful_City 22 July, 2020 17:16
Because there will bo others like it, maybe not for the same reasons but there will be other exciting games just as good.

Remember that is just one game in 16 seasons.

JP

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
Faithful_City 23 July, 2020 07:43
From TEC, “The English Championship”

Quote:
This from Ed Griffiths

“It is definitely not an end to promotion and relegation,” Griffiths told i. “What we are proposing is a better, more fair, form of promotion and relegation,

“It is a complicated mechanism but clubs will be judged according to performance on the field, crowd figures, stadium and training ground, infrastructure and financial resources. If a club is promoted by that mechanism, they will operate off a level playing field when they get to the Premiership.

“I think this will be something that will make sense to PRL clubs as well.”


Just as we have all been saying, the door is not closed but you have to prove you are capable to financially sustain a premiership club organisation not just a team then you can be considered for promotion.

At the moment I would suggest there is not a single club that could BUT it leaves the possibility there, no matter how small, for the ambitious Championship clubs - Ealing, Pirates?

JP

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
Faithful_City 23 July, 2020 07:59

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
Fiver 23 July, 2020 20:25
The key thing to remember is that we are not in the same situation as years gone by, especially the amateur era. London Welsh are to rugby what Leeds Utd are to football. Football has financial fair play for this very reason. Just because you have a good season in the championship doesn't mean you can cut it with the big boys.

The silly situation at the moment is that we have 13 teams who are premiership capable, which means the championship is a bit of a non event. I haven't got the answer, but what we currently have isn't the answer either IMHO.

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
Underdog 23 July, 2020 20:28
To have made a career out of rugby, the vast majority of players will have won a lot of games and very much enjoyed doing so. Yes, they might go into games not worrying about losing as much without relegation, but we're talking about professional competitors here. They will be driven to win, much as they are in the Pro14, Six Nations and super rugby.

As for gates, it's up to the club to get into a position where they're playing for meaningful table positions to draw in the crowds. We may make less money, but will we need to buy in professionals from other leagues or teams to stave off the drop?

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
WorcesterSauce 23 July, 2020 20:43
Quote:
Underdog
To have made a career out of rugby, the vast majority of players will have won a lot of games and very much enjoyed doing so. Yes, they might go into games not worrying about losing as much without relegation, but we're talking about professional competitors here. They will be driven to win, much as they are in the Pro14, Six Nations and super rugby.
As for gates, it's up to the club to get into a position where they're playing for meaningful table positions to draw in the crowds. We may make less money, but will we need to buy in professionals from other leagues or teams to stave off the drop?

Of course the players will want to win, i wouldn’t doubt that but it won’t matter as much if they don’t and that is just fact. That means any drama created by games is immediately cut in half and a load of games between otherwise unfashionable lowly clubs become pretty unattractive to, in particular, the media.

And yep, agree it’s up to the club to get higher up the table, but there will always be some clubs with nothing to play for. Looking at the bigger picture, it doesn’t matter who it is.

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
Malvern Man 24 July, 2020 10:05
I said above that without the threat of relegation, nearly all our games since 2004 would have been meaningless. This is because our best position ever was 8th, and we have never challenged for top six. We've always had to avoid the stick not chase the carrot. In terms of highest finish we must be the worst long-term surviving Premiership team ever.

Most clubs in most seasons have top six prospects. If we could only get a bit better there'd be be something hanging on a lot of games.

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
Blue&GoldWarrior 28 July, 2020 15:11
Just a quick question, anyone watch the 6 nations? No relegation in that (atm) but seems enough drama and pride on the line to produce some amazing games.

Also my view would be if ring fencing does come in over a few seasons teams like Saracens won’t be able to stockpile talent in the same ways. Stricter salary cap and the fact that no matter who you play for your going to be playing prem rugby the entirety of your contract. Look at the Super Rugby teams most have at least 2/3 quality international players in their teams.

Younger players will also be allowed to be blooded with out the threat of mistakes costing teams their place at the top table.

Seasoned internationals will be able to have rest periods to make sure player welfare goes up and injuries down.

Of course it needS to be done so the door isn’t fully shut but have the last 12 months not shown us that rugby in this country (if not globally) needs to change or it might not be here in a professional sense in a decade.

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
Faithful_City 28 July, 2020 17:16
Here is some more on the Griffiths proposal which will see all the 13 Premiership Academies CLOSE!!!

Quote:
The Daily Telegraph

RFU wants Premiership clubs to replace academies with regional hubs

Gavin MairsCHIEF RUGBY CORRESPONDENT

Premiership Rugby clubs are to be asked to replace their academy ¬system with a network of six “world-class regional hubs” as part of a radical plan to overhaul the -development pathway in England, The Daily Telegraph can reveal.

https://openmarkets.cmegroup.com/wp-content/uploads/Edward-Griffiths-Saracens.png


The move, hailed as “the most significant innovation since the move to professionalism”, is one of the foundation stones of a remodelling of the Championship, drawn up by Ed Griffiths, the former ¬Saracens chief executive.

Details emerged last week of the proposal to restructure the Championship, with a recommendation that the 12-team division be split into a northern and southern ¬conference, with promotion to the ¬Premiership based on agreed ¬criteria between the leagues, rather than a first-past-the-post format.

However, it is understood that the proposed new structure would also see the 13 Premiership academies replaced by six regional centres based at universities and linked to two clubs each in a remodelled Championship.

Premiership clubs would then be able to select the best young English talent each December, through an American-style draft, who would be given three-year contracts.

The 76-page proposal forecasts that Premiership clubs would save £600,000-£900,000 by closing their academies, with the Championship clubs meeting the costs of providing the coaching, strength and conditioning and medical staff at the six hubs.

Players would be guaranteed about 30 competitive games per season and after one year would be eligible for the draft system, in which each Premiership club would be given four picks from a pool of 60 players.

Griffiths, who has met with Bill Sweeney, the Rugby Football Union chief executive, and Conor O’Shea, professional rugby director, is to make a formal presentation to the Premiership clubs next month after a series of informal discussions.

He is also exploring interest from broadcasters, sponsors and universities with the aim of establishing the academies by the start of the 2021 season.

“This proposal tries to primarily find a purpose and a role for a ¬sustainable Championship, but what it also tries to do is to harness all the resources available to the game into a more streamlined, -integrated pathway for younger players,” Griffiths said.

“The plan for the new pathway, which would remain under RFU control, would harness universities’ facilities in a hub that would include other educational establishments and crucially Championship clubs, because Championship clubs can provide game time.

“Young players in this structure would get world-class coaching in six regional academies, they would get their parallel education and training from universities and associated educational institutions and they would get their game time with the Championship clubs.”

Player welfare is also central to the vision, which has the working title “TEC – The English Championship”. “At some point the game is going to have to get serious about protecting players,” Griffiths said. “This will go further on player ¬welfare than any other league in the world at the moment.”

Griffiths, backed unanimously by the Championship clubs to explore a new arrangement, acknowledges, however, that persuading the clubs to give up their academies will not be an easy task. “We have not ploughed all this money into our academy to hand it over to the Championship,” one source said.

The estimated cost of running the new Championship model, including funding player salaries and the academies, is £15.6 million in the first year. “The challenge is to persuade people to change,” ¬Griffiths said. “I genuinely think this is a win for everybody.”



NO WAY ON EARTH!!!

JP

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
PMB 29 July, 2020 15:07
Seeing as both the RFU & PRL have done their best to ignore the Championship in the hope that it will go away it's no great surprise that this has appeared and strikes me as quite an interesting proposal. The financial requirements for Prem membership are hollow as apart from The Chiefs the rest lose money and (technically) could be described as insolvent, especially under current circumstances. This latter point may well apply throughout the leagues.

north & south conferences local derbys and probably terrestrial tv, could be a great sucess

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
Abmatt 29 July, 2020 16:44
PMB, it could be apart from the fact that it goes against how clubs currently generate players.

They sign them in, or promote from academy. Clubs have invested millions I’m in academies and I can’t see them handing them over or being forced to recruit from them.

All I can see this proposal creating is a championship with a better supply of players.

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
shrewsburyman 29 July, 2020 17:18
Couldn’t agree more Admatt.

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
PMB 01 August, 2020 15:08
Surely the RFU invest in the academies and could have a say in what happens to them. I can see the desire for ring fencing causing the prem clubs to be quite amenable to "a deal" that removes the fear of relegation. I also suspect that the current situation will lead to a major change in player "values" to create much needed cost savings.

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
NW2 02 August, 2020 10:35
As I have never followed any American sport, can someone explain to me how the draft system works?

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
Offa 02 August, 2020 10:57
Essentially you have a crop of youngsters graduating from college football to the NFL. The worst team in the NFL get the first pick of the crop, the next worst team the next etc.
The team may pick the most highly rated player (usually a quarterback), or they may pick the best player for their most needed position.
Because college football has a huge following in its own right, the players tend to be well known, and this is augmented by team scouting networks.
It is meant to keep a level as possible a playing field across NFL, and over large periods of time has probably achieved this.

Re: Championship clubs sticking 2 fingers up at the PRL?
Abmatt 02 August, 2020 11:50
Until you start throwing in the trading of picks, which theoretically could result in the top team getting the first pick.

Draft Day is a good film that illustrates this system, and one of Kevin Costner’s better films of recent times.


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