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How long does Solly get?
Discussion started by WorcesterSauce , 16 August, 2020 21:10
How long does Solly get?
WorcesterSauce 16 August, 2020 21:10
7 losses on the bounce now and little on field progress since he arrived, how long does Solly get? In any other season heíd be massively under pressure but luckily (for him and us) the season doesnít matter and loss after loss seems to be greeted by a much more lenient tone than he would be getting if the Saracens debacle had never happened.

So if we were to lose say 6 or 7 out of the last 8 games would he still get a chance next season? Or would people think his time is up?

Basically, we are in a terrible run of form. When will it be one loss too many?

Re: How long does Solly get?
Abmatt 16 August, 2020 21:25
I donít think he can be judged on this season as it has been so fragmented and disrupted.

Wait until the next.

Not really something we need to be discussing now.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Offa 16 August, 2020 21:37
Much longer for me.
He has a new coaching team to bed in. A possible new DOR to mentor.
And agree with above - this season is not one to judge.

Re: How long does Solly get?
WorcesterSauce 16 August, 2020 23:06
I think iím probably in agreement about it being difficult to judge based on this season, but if we were to lose every game, is it really enough to say that Ďwell it was a fragmented season anywayí so itís not his fault. Do we really want to risk poor form into next season IF this one turns out to be an absolute car crash?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/08/2020 23:13 by WorcesterSauce.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Abmatt 16 August, 2020 23:14
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
I think iím probably in agreement, but if we were to lose every game, is it really enough to say that Ďwell it was a fragmented season anywayí so itís not his fault.

Losing every remaining game is a different matter.

I am viewing these last matches as a season on their own due to the 5 month break and personality changes.

Re: How long does Solly get?
4934 17 August, 2020 09:44
Maybe the answer to your question has already been put in place? JT being groomed by AS before eventual takeover/retirement?

If that is so, time needed..

Re: How long does Solly get?
Underdog 17 August, 2020 10:23
This does seem to be a prematurely asked question, particularly given the nature of the season and the fact there's a whole new coaching team that has come in. I'm glad to have someone as experienced at the top, allowing JT et al to perform within an already expanded remit (after the departure of Omar).

It's easy to say 'well sarries are getting relegated, thank god otherwise it'd be us'. But the club know and knew that Saracens were relegated and have used that to try and speed up a transition which may cost us points in the mean time. It may be that had Saracens escaped a ban, the club would have been a bit more practical about the short term. Yes, it'd be nice if we could transition as well as win a few more games as a team like Wasps have done, but bluntly, we can't throw money to sign the likes of Fekitoa and Sopoaga, and the approach we are taking is more gradual.

All this said, my patience and understanding that we use this rump of a season to prepare for the next one means I am expecting more for next season. I'm not saying we should qualify for the play offs, but if we are going to get everything fine tuned over the coming weeks at the cost of purely focusing on results, I do want a few more results when 20/21 gets going.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Malvern Man 17 August, 2020 10:50
I think that appalling 62-5 hammering by the embittered Saracens in January, with the serious injury to Michael Fatiolofa, was a pivotal psychological blow from which we have not yet recovered. We haven't won a league game since, which means no Premiership wins in the admittedly distorted year 2020.

My sympathy and fervent support go to the players and coaches. Good luck everybody, keep at it, and the tide will turn eventually, possibly when least expected.

Re: How long does Solly get?
ROLLO 17 August, 2020 10:54
I don't think it is a matter of how much time Solly has, it is a matter of how much time the club has. If our form continues how long will Ollie Lawrence be around and others who have 12 months left after this season finishes. We could be back to square one and with little chance of atracting sponsers, players and season ticket holders. I have commited to next season even though I know that I may not attend many games, but after that is very much up for how we perform.

Re: How long does Solly get?
AJWarriors1 17 August, 2020 17:05
Very short memories Warriors fans have. Ollie has signed long term as have almost all our youngsters so theyíre not going anywhere anytime soon. Wasnít that long ago people were praising Solly for bringing stability to the club and signing up the majority of the squad.

JT mentioned only a matter of a few weeks ago the coaching team havenít had the luxury of a full pre season to get their style and messages across yet so Iím more than happy for them to use this period as a ďpre seasonĒ going into next. I couldnít have wished for a more competitive environment for the boys to come back in.

If itís not the players we are having a pop at then itís Solly. Solly doesnít coach the team donít forget....

Re: How long does Solly get?
WorcesterSauce 17 August, 2020 17:26
Not a pop and AS deserves massive credit for signing TH and OL in particular on long term contracts, that is better than any other previous DoR has managed.

However, I still feel itís a legitimate question when we have lost 7 on the bounce, had our record defeat in the prem, our first defeat at Ďhomeí to Gloucs in over a decade and our record defeat to Gloucester at Sixways ever, along with a calamitous European Campaign, all this Ďseasoní.

If we are taking this block of 9 as a season on itís own, then the first half of the season was hugely disappointing, and this one hasnít exactly started too well.

JT is of course right about a lack of time to implement his way of playing on the team, but Gloucester equally changed the guard and looked much, much sharper. The coaching team should never have committee to 8th as their aim for a season. The buck stops with Solomons and if we donít get 8th as, by his own admission, it will have been a failure.

FWIW iíd take 9th

Re: How long does Solly get?
NW2 17 August, 2020 18:48
I agree with you WS, legitimate question IMO. The season pre-lockdown showed me nothing that filled me with confidence, nor even that we would/ will improve, to the point where we havenít renewed our S/Tís for next season as we are simply fed up of the same old rhetoric.

Re: How long does Solly get?
TrueWarrior 17 August, 2020 19:30
Disagree that Gloucester looked sharper. We were the better side for the first 30 minutes and created more try scoring opportunities than they did. We tired and they found holes, unsurprisingly. You cant predict what ifs but I would have been surprised had we not won that game with 15.

We have been a coaching/DoR merry go round for the last however many years. We need stability and if the decision to get rid of Solomons is taken, it must be done with some serious consideration. We either do it at the end of the season or in 2 seasons time - we cannot have another season of change half way through.

For the first time ever, I feel that we are on the cusp of breaking through as a top 8 (hopefully top 6) side. We just need to be patient and understand there will be road bumps along the way.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Fiver 17 August, 2020 20:15
Whilst I understand the sentiment of the question, we lost to Gloucester whilst playing 62 minutes with 14 men. Gloucester are a wise enough team to know how to tire out the opposition and that's exactly what happened. I don't think we can read much into one game, although I was happy enough with what I saw not to worry.

Prior to the lockdown we were on a bad streak, although picking up LBPs in most games. If we were getting our backsides handed to us in carrier bags then I'd have been worried.

Re: How long does Solly get?
LiveInHope 17 August, 2020 23:24
Surprised and slightly disappointed by this thread.
We do just love to throw people under a bus....

Agree with most of the above.
Thought 15 v 15 we were the better team, even for the 1st 10-15 Mind of 14 men we looked dangerous.
This year, we have lost a lot of games, but they have been very tight.
We should have won a few more & donít believe we deserve to be 3rd bottom. But we are.

Donít think Solly is the best coach on the league. Yes there could be better, but think there could have been worse. But Ďhow long does Solly get..í...sorry donít get.

Re: How long does Solly get?
ROLLO 18 August, 2020 09:52
AJW my recollection was that Ollie signed an unspecifid extra contract which was thought to be 12 months. I recall you commenting that Nick Schonert was still waiting to hear about anything longer than 12 months he already had.
Agree that Ted and some others younger lads have signed longer contracts, regrettably we are now seeing that these often don't hold water if a player wants to leave. As I said I don't think this is about Solly but about how long the club can afford to rub along the botton of hte table. Lets hope we can show some signs of improvement.

Re: How long does Solly get?
AJWarriors1 18 August, 2020 10:20
Ollie has signed for two more years on top of his his deal that is meant to run out next season. And with Nic it was me that mistook a social media message incorrectly and txt him to say congrats on the new deal and he said what new deal? So that was my fault on that side and just to clarify he only signed for a year, but i think he will end up staying on depending on how next season goes

Re: How long does Solly get?
WarwickEastie 18 August, 2020 13:52
Too early to start this discussion - we had one very poor performance but with most of the game a man down, and we have a full set of new coaches.

I think we'll be in a better position after the remainder of this weird season has been played.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Malvern Man 18 August, 2020 13:57
The Daily Telegraph today has an article on enterprising bits of play from last weekend. Both our tries are mentioned, and thinking about it, both were excellent. There's always hope!

Re: How long does Solly get?
ROLLO 18 August, 2020 14:25
Aplolgies AJW I never should have doubted you!. Excellent about Ollie and I agree about Nick.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Exilepaul 18 August, 2020 16:28
As an Irish fan looking in at use Worcester have been massively unlucky losing 7 games by less the 7, compare that to Bristol who have won 6 games by less than 7 that's the difference between top and bottom. I would say use do miss Josh Adams and Bryce Heem tho for firepower but use still have a decent playing group I wouldn't be massively down if I was a Worcester fan use have always been good at sixways and will always pick up wins. Ollie Lawrence looks like a fantastic talent Tedd Hill gets alot of credit but I think that Sam Lewis is massively underrated.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Offa 18 August, 2020 19:55
Thanks Paul.
Sam is very rated at Sixways and is always thought very highly of by his teammates. Consistently one of the very best 7s in the prem, just unlucky with the strength in depth in this position in Wales.

Re: How long does Solly get?
WorcesterSauce 04 September, 2020 20:59
Back to the top

Re: How long does Solly get?
Rinkadink 05 September, 2020 00:31
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Back to the top

Because you lost to the now 2nd placed team this evening? Seems a huge overreaction, especially as it wasn't uncompetitive.

You have a bunch of changes to coaching, especially two that Bristol fans would rather have kept. Not bottom and in spite of not getting the wins for a run are picking up bonus points and asking a lot of questions of opposition

From outside it looks like solid foundations to challenge at least mid table are being put into place in a very tough league. Keep the faith and give it time, would be nice to see some deserved success for you guys.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Faithful_City 05 September, 2020 10:25
He has now been in charge for 50 premiership games and over that period has the best win percentage of all our DoRs, so not a bad record at all.

These last 8 games are not really reflective of his tenure. Totally new coaching team with no preseason to get it right. A very tight schedule and making use of our young guns.

These game are purely for BT Sport/CVC and money(not ours)

Letís see what happens after December.

However I have my doubts because the recruitment has been pathetic and could easily cause us real problems.

I wonder what will happen re relegation?

Re: How long does Solly get?
WorcesterSauce 05 September, 2020 11:37
Rinkadink yesterday was just one match in a long Line of poor, poor performances. We were ok for the first half yesterday but ultimately crumbled. I completely excuse the youngsters putting in bad performances and getting thrashed (although this in itself worries me slightly) but the first team should be more competitive, end of.

Re: How long does Solly get?
lokicrichtonfan 05 September, 2020 16:20
Absolutely naff DOR. Worcester is the only club that excuses failure like this. Going nowhere.

Re: How long does Solly get?
shrewsburyman 05 September, 2020 17:26
I suspect that an assessment will be made at the end of next season. I suspect that his future is tied to how successful JT is!

Re: How long does Solly get?
lokicrichtonfan 05 September, 2020 23:26
If Schonert has any ambition heíll leave. Clubs going nowhere and heís one of the best around in his position.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Faithful_City 06 September, 2020 09:28
Itís up to the best players to work harder For the club to improve, not to just jump ship!

If the clubís going nowhere On the field then the players have to shoulder most of the blame. It is not the coaches or management that miss tackles or drop balls or fail to support breaking players.

JP

Re: How long does Solly get?
lokicrichtonfan 06 September, 2020 11:00
Quote:
Faithful_City
Itís up to the best players to work harder For the club to improve, not to just jump ship!
If the clubís going nowhere On the field then the players have to shoulder most of the blame. It is not the coaches or management that miss tackles or drop balls or fail to support breaking players.

JP

Itís more than the clubs form on the pitch. Players like Schonert should jump as thereís no ambition at Worcester. Do you think there is a plan or any vision at Sixways to emulate a Bristol for example?

I love this club and will always support the team but Worcester are seen as a tinpot club named after a roundabout, based nowhere near the city centre and are happy to languish at the bottom of the league every year!

Re: How long does Solly get?
Faithful_City 06 September, 2020 11:30
We are not in the slightest named after a roundabout!

We are ďWorcester WarriorsĒ names after our city.

Our stadium like the vast majority of stadiums are named after its location or the company who sponsor it.

You may see it as a ďtin pot clubĒ, I never will. I will always be extremely proud of OUR club and of the effort 100ís of people have put in to try to make it a success and are still doing so.

Yes of course I would like it to do better who wouldnít.

JP

Re: How long does Solly get?
WorcesterSauce 06 September, 2020 11:43
We are a bit tin pot.

Re: How long does Solly get?
lokicrichtonfan 06 September, 2020 12:05
Quote:
Faithful_City
We are not in the slightest named after a roundabout!
We are ďWorcester WarriorsĒ names after our city.

Our stadium like the vast majority of stadiums are named after its location or the company who sponsor it.

You may see it as a ďtin pot clubĒ, I never will. I will always be extremely proud of OUR club and of the effort 100ís of people have put in to try to make it a success and are still doing so.

Yes of course I would like it to do better who wouldnít.

JP

Spare me the semantics, Faithful. The rugby communityís opinion of this club is pretty nothing-y and dread the trip to Sixways. No wonder! Same old greasy burger and chips instead of a nice food court at other clubs and you have to get a bus to get to the city centre. Granted the geographical location of Sandy Park compared to Exeter is similar but they do the business on the pitch, we donít.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Garym 06 September, 2020 12:20
[quote lokicrichtonfan][quote Faithful_City]


Spare me the semantics, Faithful. The rugby communityís opinion of this club is pretty nothing-y and dread the trip to Sixways. No wonder! Same old greasy burger and chips instead of a nice food court at other clubs and you have to get a bus to get to the city centre. Granted the geographical location of Sandy Park compared to Exeter is similar but they do the business on the pitch, we donít.[/quote]

Sale are in the middle of nowhere
Falcons are in the middle of nowhere
Wasps are in the middle of nowhere
Saints - town centre
Tigers - town centre
Glaws - town centre
Exeter - middle of nowhere
LI - middle of nowhere / nowhere centre of London when they move t London
Quins - nowhere centre of London
Saracens 0 middle of nowhere

IMHO, that's quite a few which are not town centre based. As for the food, the food at Sixways is way better than most other clubs - have you ever eaten at Sale or falcons (and a few of the others) just to name a couple of bad ones.

yes we all want better rugby, but we have got what we can afford!

Re: How long does Solly get?
WorcesterSauce 06 September, 2020 12:30
Cant agree that, just because Quins, Saracens and Irish are not in central London it means they are in the middle of nowhere. The very nature of London is that it is an agglomeration of towns. Valid points on Coventry, Exeter, Sale and Newcastle Though. Although at least 3 of them can be accessed through the rail/metro network.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Garym 06 September, 2020 12:42
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Cant agree that, just because Quins, Saracens and Irish are not in central London it means they are in the middle of nowhere. The very nature of London is that it is an agglomeration of towns. Valid points on Coventry, Exeter, Sale and Newcastle Though. Although at least 3 of them can be accessed through the rail/metro network.

Quins,agree. Sarries parking is a no-no., relies on bus in from a tube station (no different to us) and nothin on the immediate neighbourhood with very expensive beer and food. LI while in Reading, very much middle of nowhere, can't comment on Brentford

Re: How long does Solly get?
Whispering_Death 06 September, 2020 12:58
We arenít seriously saying we are @#$%& because of where the ground is. Itís such a dull criticism. We are @#$%& because we have never brought in the sort of coach or DOR who can shake up the whole culture and attitude of the club. We are a club where failure is acceptable, and I agree a club with no ambition....our board laughed at the idea of Lancaster, so probably also a club with no idea. Yes we might not have the strongest playing squad but we have some outstanding players, we have just never had a coaching setup capable of getting the most out of our players, let alone making them better. Pat Lam has been Bristolís best signing. Yes they have splashed the cash on players but it starts at the top, and those big name players may not have come if Lam wasnít there. Unfortunately part of me would love to see how the likes of Ted and Ollie would develop at a top club in a winning environment.

Re: How long does Solly get?
WorcesterSauce 06 September, 2020 13:55
Would agree with all of that WD - for me the ground reference was just that rather than a reason as to why we arenít any good.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Faithful_City 06 September, 2020 13:56
Absolutely agree WD

JP

Re: How long does Solly get?
Offa 06 September, 2020 14:26
Pat Lam was a master stroke.
Cockers has turned Edinburgh around in a very quick time.
Sarries have excellent coaching.
Baxter is the best of the lot.

For me, I will judge at the end of next season. At least Solly had the backbone to move aside a failing coaching team - not everyone would (as we have seen to our cost).

Agree with above sentiments about previous regimes. Our biggest mistake was moving John Brain on. Ruddock, Hill and DR were disastrous. My feeling is that GG and Solly did stabilise things. Now let's see how the new coaching team go next season.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Fiver 06 September, 2020 14:38
Splashing the cash is one thing, but the cap stops that in most instances. I agree with what's been said about Pat Lam, the guy is fantastic and the lure of top players to want to play for him is huge. How many Pat Lams are there? Therein lies the problem.

It's worth remembering that it wasn't our current board that laughed at the idea of Lancaster as far as I know. The previous board were poor, I really don't think anyone can deny that. Dean Ryan probably would have been the DoR to take us forward, but the board left him with nowhere to go so he left.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Offa 06 September, 2020 14:51
I do.
DR backed a very poor coaching team.
I sat in a room being told by him that the players didn't understand the system. Any teacher, anywhere in the World will tell you that if the students don't understand you, it is the teaching that needs to adapt.

I thank him for reinstating the academy, but the DR years were further years of inadequate and sub-standard coaching. I think the only place DR would have taken us to is the Championship.

Re: How long does Solly get?
lokicrichtonfan 06 September, 2020 19:43
Quote:
Whispering_Death
We arenít seriously saying we are @#$%& because of where the ground is. Itís such a dull criticism. We are @#$%& because we have never brought in the sort of coach or DOR who can shake up the whole culture and attitude of the club. We are a club where failure is acceptable, and I agree a club with no ambition....our board laughed at the idea of Lancaster, so probably also a club with no idea. Yes we might not have the strongest playing squad but we have some outstanding players, we have just never had a coaching setup capable of getting the most out of our players, let alone making them better. Pat Lam has been Bristolís best signing. Yes they have splashed the cash on players but it starts at the top, and those big name players may not have come if Lam wasnít there. Unfortunately part of me would love to see how the likes of Ted and Ollie would develop at a top club in a winning environment.

If youíve actually read my post youíd know I was saying other clubs have a naff location but make up for it by doing the business on the pitch. Due to factors youíve just mentioned like a decent DOR.

Hope this helps

Re: How long does Solly get?
NW2 07 September, 2020 09:01
Agree we have never had a ďnameĒ as DOR who could attract players in the way Pat Lam has.
I said at the time, and still think, we should have gone balls out to get Cockerill when he was dumped by Tigers. We didnít, and we are where we are.

Re: How long does Solly get?
WorcesterSauce 07 September, 2020 09:04
To be fair Mike Rudduck was a big name at the time and we had no problem attracting big name signings under him. Just turned out he was sh1te!

Re: How long does Solly get?
Fiver 07 September, 2020 13:41
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
To be fair Mike Rudduck was a big name at the time and we had no problem attracting big name signings under him. Just turned out he was sh1te!

Saucie and I don't often agree, but this time the facts speak for themselves. Ruddock could get the phone numbers of players Solly could only dream of, but he couldn't manage a team in the premiership.

Re: How long does Solly get?
AJWarriors1 07 September, 2020 16:14
It looks like we will be bringing in some new players for next season. I think the depth was clearly exposed last week so itís being reviewed after the Irish game

Re: How long does Solly get?
Warrior7 07 September, 2020 16:20
Quote:
AJWarriors1
It looks like we will be bringing in some new players for next season. I think the depth was clearly exposed last week so itís being reviewed after the Irish game

Hopefully it'll be aimed at 2nd row and loosehead prop, although I hope Owen has better injury luck going forwards.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Faithful_City 07 September, 2020 16:22
Yes just seen that.

If we can still recruit then we could not have already recruited to the full ceiling

JP

Re: How long does Solly get?
AJWarriors1 07 September, 2020 16:36
I canít see us being anywhere near it JP to be honest especially now the squad is stocked with academy grads to the first team. Theyíll more than likely be on a lower wage.

Yea Warrior 7 I hope it will be aimed towards the pack. Some bigger lads would do the trick. I used to think wingers were our problem but Iím really enthusiastic about Heward and David. Heward is great in defence and will get better and also his physical stature will improve and David scores tries.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Warrior7 07 September, 2020 16:42
Agreed about the Wingers - both David and Heward are physical beyond their size in defence. David is hard to stop going forwards as well. Both have the advantage of playing lots of rugby at 15, so their other skills (kicking, high balls) are above most wingers starting out.

If we can keep Heward, David, Humphreys and Fidow mostly fit then I think we'll be okay. I'm doubtful about Howe, not got the basic skills of the others and he seems to have lost some of the spark he had previously.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Offa 07 September, 2020 16:45
Where have you seen about further recruitment?

Re: How long does Solly get?
Warrior7 07 September, 2020 16:48
Quote:
Offa
Where have you seen about further recruitment?

"On recruitment

Solomons didn't rule out upcoming moves, saying: "We have to look at our situation... hopefully the (injured) guys will be better by 2020-21."

Review process for recruitment will start on September 14, the day after the London Irish game."

[www.worcesternews.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2020 16:48 by Warrior7.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Offa 07 September, 2020 17:40
Thanks for that.

I hope that players coming back from injury won't skew the decisions - there will always be injuries and our depth has been exposed. But Solly will know this.

Re: How long does Solly get?
WRC 07 September, 2020 19:32
I am told that players like the new coaches but Solly tactics & vision are like 20 years ago and he wont change his style.
Players are getting frustrated with this and the ones who speak out ,are not getting any (or hardly) playing time - Players are being listed as injured ,but are not !
Club has no money and Solly has been told to work with what he has got.

Re: How long does Solly get?
shrewsburyman 07 September, 2020 20:42
If what you say is correct WRC and have no knowledge of this situation then this is a very serious. Solly has already lost one head coach who seemed to be making progress. He is not really in a situation to lose another! This would suggest that AS and JT need to define their responsibilities fairly quickly.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Faithful_City 07 September, 2020 22:06
AND we need to find some money

What has happened to the CVC £14million, in someoneís pocket??

JP

Re: How long does Solly get?
lokicrichtonfan 07 September, 2020 22:32
Not at all surprised to hear AS has had a breakdown in relations with some players. He never had a pro rugby career himself so wonít understand their point of view more often than not. To my knowledge, only Worcester and Northampton have a head coach that never played themselves. Players respect them less. Look at all the top coaches bar one or two, they all played.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2020 22:40 by lokicrichtonfan.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Abmatt 08 September, 2020 07:05
That is just arrogance and ignorance on the players part if they donít respect the coach just because they havenít played. It takes a hell of a lot of work to get to that level, which is possible even harder if you havenít played.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Teme Dream 08 September, 2020 08:51
Quote:
Faithful City: AND we need to find some money


I am told that significant new funding was found. All was looking rosy until the pandemic hit; the new investors lost big and pulled out.

It will be mighty difficult to find new money while the club turnover is next to nothing.

Think the club will stick with Solly until JT is ready to take over.

Re: How long does Solly get?
TVM Rides Again 08 September, 2020 09:07
Quote:
WRC
I am told that players like the new coaches but Solly tactics & vision are like 20 years ago and he wont change his style.
Players are getting frustrated with this and the ones who speak out ,are not getting any (or hardly) playing time - Players are being listed as injured ,but are not !
Club has no money and Solly has been told to work with what he has got.

This all sounds a bit dystopian. Sufficiently so that I would withold my judgement until we have more information on the quality of the source. Always beware dramatic news....

Re: How long does Solly get?
Faithful_City 08 September, 2020 09:51
I would still like to know more about the CVC money

Re: How long does Solly get?
Warrior7 08 September, 2020 10:31
Quote:
TVM Rides Again
This all sounds a bit dystopian. Sufficiently so that I would withold my judgement until we have more information on the quality of the source. Always beware dramatic news....

+1

Re: How long does Solly get?
LiveInHope 08 September, 2020 13:13
Think we need to give the club a bit of space & trust.
I for one am really glad that the club/owners didnít waste the CVC money on players. As no doubt the CVC is being used to cover the Covid income short fall & reduce debt.
Know that means a hit on our on-field performance, but would rather see us really trying with the youth & current players, than panic and bring in a couple of new players who would most likely be journey men at the end of their career.
Is Solly the best coach around? Donít know but it wasnít too many months ago that many were speaking highly of him.
Is he the future, definitely not due to age & bringing in JT who is highlighting rated & left a similar role in Bristol. He wouldnít have come if not to take over the ship next year.
We needed a steady Eddy & Solly is steady, maybe even to steady & boring, but think we needed that. I would have loved Cockerill or Lancaster, but both of them would have been less steady & I also donít think they would have come. Solly is what we have & expect his involvement/management to slowly reduce with more being passed to JT. Getting rid of Solly now would be the wrong thing for the club & JT, as I dont expect the results to come through next year either & we need Solly to take the fall for that. The year after, think we will see if our youth/English policy is working & we will have JT at the helm.

This is a strange year, no crowds, no relegation, no income & a lot of games in a short period.
I think it makes sense to blood & blend in the youth. We will know at the end of this year which players have a future & which that donít.
Also we donít have the luxury of owners with very deep pockets & money to burn. We tried that & it did not work. Therefore i am happy to allow the business men to build the club up & spend within our income. If that means CVC money being used to clear their debt, i am happy because I didnít have the balls to put my money on the line & buy the club when the money-ed previous owners wanted out. They did & they are not asset stripping it, but i think wisely investing.
As I understand it Irish are in trouble now as they spent all the CVC money on players & have nothing in reserve. Sale & Wasps currently have owners willing to spend money (maybe not wasps), but we will still be seeing the effects of Covid next year & maybe the year after, as fully expect to see the RFU cut support. Will those clubs/owners spending/gambling to get success now, still be able to going forward? I doubt it.

Finally, I think as always Worcester have played good at times, but are not consistent at all.
Thought we were the better team before the red card. Against Bristol competing well in 1st half. Shocking against Exeter but the team better for it. Rightly winners against Quinns.
We are still at the bottom, still want to catch Irish, but expect to finish 2nd bottom....but thatís Worcester.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Offa 08 September, 2020 13:31
Excellent post LiH.
Agree with everything.
Jason and Colin seem to be providing good stewardship of our club, and I suspect that they value Solly highly for that steady hand on the tiller.
I would love to see us surging up the table, but most of all I want us to have a viable club to support.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Faithful_City 08 September, 2020 13:59
Offa and LiH you are both absolutely spot on with how the CVC money should be spent and that sustainability is more important than getting higher up the table.

The development of youth is our future, so long as it is a controlled development not just thrown in and see what they can do. A lot of the other clubs have also got good developing young players. We need a sensible mix of Current top class players liberally sprinkled with our best developing youth. If they donít develop then we have to have the balls to tell them and release them if necessary.

At present how do you know we have used the CVC monies to offset our debts and that other clubs have spent it on players or are you guessing. I dont see ours being invested in facilities improvements or developing future new income streams. Offsetting debt is just as a big a waste of the money as spending on big money players, but at least big players put bums on seats(when they can) and bring in money, paying off debt is just throwing good money after bad.

JP

Re: How long does Solly get?
lokicrichtonfan 08 September, 2020 14:19
Quote:
Abmatt
That is just arrogance and ignorance on the players part if they donít respect the coach just because they havenít played. It takes a hell of a lot of work to get to that level, which is possible even harder if you havenít played.

Why is it that the vast majority of top top coaches have played themselves then. If youíre a former pro your relationship with the players youíre coaching comes easier.

Re: How long does Solly get?
ROLLO 08 September, 2020 14:23
We are constantly told what good prospects we have in the acdamy, which may very well be correct. But on the evidence of this season so do most other club , so where does that leave us?

Re: How long does Solly get?
WorcesterSauce 08 September, 2020 14:45
Exactly Rollo. Solly has said that we are using this time wisely to give the youngsters game time but iíve seen no real evidence to suggest that we are doing this to any greater extent than any other club. Whatís more, our youngsters donít seem to be any better than other clubs either.

I think that our academy may be ok (not the best, but ok) but the coaching that the players receive afterwards, ie when they come up into the first team, is poor.

Re: How long does Solly get?
LiveInHope 08 September, 2020 14:46
Sorry for the last long post.
Donít post much these days, but stuck on a very long and boring MS Teams meeting today.
We will never know what the club are Spending the CVC Money on, & letís face it we shouldnít, they own the club, they invested their money & they are gambling with their own money.
But think there has been good investment in new lights, new screens, new facilities behind the `north Stand. Also the North Stand development is progress well after being a plan that didnít really move forward. It may not happen now due to Covid as hotels will be in less demand, but the new owners must do something with it, thus I believe it will happen. It didnít need to happen when we had owners with deep pockets.

As for the youth policy. Think we have a very good crop of youth coming through, as do other clubs. But we are giving them a chance to play a lot more than other clubs (I believe), in part because we have to. Also we are able to attract other clubs youth, thinking of Searle & Batley.
Because we have to play them more than say Sale or Bristol, we should be able to ID those with a future faster & think going forward we will be ruthless in letting some go. The good ones will also develop faster which could also attract other clubs good youth more...
Think back to Eden & Howard, if we had been forced to play them more we would have released them sooner. But we didnít play them as much & they hung around longer than was good for us & them.

Yes, I would like to have won more games this season, been higher up the league. But thatís life & I am more confident now than under past management. But we all must realise that the future of many professional clubs is on the line, & that includes Worcester but think others are in more trouble than us.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Faithful_City 08 September, 2020 15:28
LiH, I really hope you are right that other clubs are in a more trouble than us.

However I have my doubts about our owners, hopefully wrong, they do not come across as go getters. They hideaway and say we will tell you when we have something to say. On the evidence so far the have absolutely nothing to say, no new successes to tell us about.

JP

Re: How long does Solly get?
Abmatt 08 September, 2020 15:41
Quote:
lokicrichtonfan
Quote:
Abmatt
That is just arrogance and ignorance on the players part if they donít respect the coach just because they havenít played. It takes a hell of a lot of work to get to that level, which is possible even harder if you havenít played.

Why is it that the vast majority of top top coaches have played themselves then. If youíre a former pro your relationship with the players youíre coaching comes easier.

Just as easily as if youíre a coach who has come through the ranks and is known.

I personally think personality has more to do with it.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Faithful_City 08 September, 2020 16:00
The best coach we ever had never played at Premiership level. But he knew how to win.

Re: How long does Solly get?
w4rriorz1980 08 September, 2020 17:22
The CVC money pre-dates Covid-19 by quite a few months did it not? And was probably spent before Covid became part of our lives.



Eats,Shoots And Leaves

Re: How long does Solly get?
Faithful_City 08 September, 2020 17:30
But itís use I believe was restricted to club/stadia improvements.

We may have spent £1million on lighting and screens, the question is ďwhat are we doing with the rest?Ē

I guess some was used to buy out a certain Mr McCrory as our owners only have debts.

JP

Re: How long does Solly get?
WorcesterSauce 08 September, 2020 17:45
Iím sure at the beginning of lockdown the owners said via the Q&A videolink that they were looking at having planning permission in place in the next couple of months and that they were in a strong place to come out of Covid19 financially ok.

Here we are 6 months on and all that has happened is they have acquired a football club that will see some funds (ok, not a great deal, yet) directed elsewhere.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Abmatt 08 September, 2020 18:46
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Here we are 6 months on and all that has happened is they have acquired a football club that will see some funds (ok, not a great deal, yet) directed elsewhere.

True. But theyíre their funds, not warriors funds as I understand it. The rugby club hasnít bought the football one.

Yes you could argue that the money comes from the same pot in some way, but I donít really see that they can affect each other. They will have their own sources of income and separate expenditures. There is no guarantee that any funds used for the football club would have been allocated to the rugby one anyway.

Re: How long does Solly get?
WorcesterSauce 08 September, 2020 20:33
I would argue it all comes from the same pot to be honest Abmatt, and from what iím told some of the Raiders players are being paid, it definitely isnít paid for by revenue made from the Raiders, which will be really really low (i doubt it exceeds £100k a year).

Re: How long does Solly get?
lokicrichtonfan 08 September, 2020 20:48
Quote:
Faithful_City
The best coach we ever had never played at Premiership level. But he knew how to win.

Clutching at straws here I feel. He played nonetheless? For Gloucester I believe? Prem not necessarily the be all and end all. Alan Solomonís never played and it shows with the mismanagement of players weíve seen during his tenure.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2020 20:50 by lokicrichtonfan.

Re: How long does Solly get?
WarwickEastie 09 September, 2020 14:19
I think the 'did they play at the highest level' thing is a red herring.

Sven Eriksson and Arsene Wenger were not high level footballers, but they were very good coaches and directors of football.

I've read a fair amount of biographies including Clive Woodward, Eddie Jones (who didn't make it with Australia) and recently Paul O'Connell who was quite candid about the various coaches he was under.
It feels to me that you need to have an enquiring mind, be able to constantly learn and take on new methods and ideas, be able to actually communicate those ideas / turn them into something the players 'get'. Being an ex-player gives you a head start as you are familiar with what your coaches did, but only takes you so far.
I've honestly no idea about where Solly stands in all that. Does he own the 'masterplan' for how we play? Or does he allow the coaches to come up with that? How do they take new ideas on board?
WE

Re: How long does Solly get?
Faithful_City 09 September, 2020 14:42
Nope, never played for Gloucester.

I believe his rugby playing was with the police

JP

Re: How long does Solly get?
w4rriorz1980 09 September, 2020 21:38
Back to the top.AGAIN!

Re: How long does Solly get?
Threepear 09 September, 2020 21:38
Hopefully no more than a week

Re: How long does Solly get?
Abmatt 09 September, 2020 21:54
The first block of matches next season.

Re: How long does Solly get?
lokicrichtonfan 10 September, 2020 01:35
Quote:
Faithful_City
Nope, never played for Gloucester.
I believe his rugby playing was with the police

JP

We talking about the same person? John Brain played for Gloucester. Must be more specific, Faithful.

Hope this helps

Re: How long does Solly get?
Faithful_City 10 September, 2020 07:22
Quote:
Faithful_City
The best coach we ever had never played at Premiership level. But he knew how to win.

No mention of JB here

JP

Re: How long does Solly get?
lokicrichtonfan 10 September, 2020 12:32
Quote:
Faithful_City
Quote:
Faithful_City
The best coach we ever had never played at Premiership level. But he knew how to win.

No mention of JB here

JP

No mention of any coach. JB was the best coach weíve ever had.

Hope this helps

Re: How long does Solly get?
Faithful_City 10 September, 2020 12:41
Nope JB was a DoR and was certainly not our best coach.

JP

Re: How long does Solly get?
ROLLO 10 September, 2020 13:11
Andy Keast.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Faithful_City 10 September, 2020 13:24
Was head and shoulders above any coach we have ever had, but would never come back into coaching and to be honest has been away from the game and players too long.

But, we need someone who is prepared to give the hairdryer treatment when need and put some fire/anger into the bellies of our players not soft maby-pamby platidues.

JP

Re: How long does Solly get?
PMB 10 September, 2020 13:53
Phil Maynard was pretty successful bringing WRFC up through the leagues. Sadly the "management" had already decided that JB was going to get us relegated and had his replacement ready, unfortunately for them relegation didn't happen but JB still had to go-followed by a queue none of whom managed three years in post (I think that is right).

Re: How long does Solly get?
lokicrichtonfan 10 September, 2020 15:09
Quote:
Faithful_City
Nope JB was a DoR and was certainly not our best coach.
JP

Spare me the semantics and itís all a matter of perspective Faithful

Hope this helps

Re: How long does Solly get?
Faithful_City 10 September, 2020 15:33
Quote:
lokicrichtonfan
Quote:
Faithful_City
Nope JB was a DoR and was certainly not our best coach.
JP

Spare me the semantics and itís all a matter of perspective Faithful

Hope this helps

Have I done something that has rattled your cage if I have it was unintentional.

Re: How long does Solly get?
Faithful_City 10 September, 2020 16:45
You may find this an interesting video



JP


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