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Teams Up
Discussion started by Faithful_City , 11 September, 2020 12:04
Teams Up
Faithful_City 11 September, 2020 12:04
Here we go

Warriors
15 Melani Nanai
14 Tom Howe
13 Francois Venter
12 Ashley Beck
11 Noah Heward

10 Duncan Weir
9 Francois Hougaard

1 Ethan Waller
2 Niall Annett
3 Nick Schonert
4 Anton Bresler
5 Graham Kitchener
6 Ted Hill (C)
7 Matt Kvesic
8 Cornell du Preez.

Finishers

16 Beck Cutting, 17 Callum Black, 18 Richard Palframan, 19 Tom Dodd, 20 Sam Lewis, 21 Gareth Simpson, 22 Billy Searle, 23 Ollie Lawrence.

Unavailable

Joe Batley, Will Butler, Conor Carey, Perry Humphreys, Andrew Kitchener, Marco Mama, Morgan Monks, Caleb Montgomery, Matt Moulds, Chris Pennell, Jamie Shillcock, GJ van Velze.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2020 12:06 by Faithful_City.

Re: Teams Up
Faithful_City 11 September, 2020 12:08
Not a bad team all we now need is 100% for 85mins.

Come on boys you can do this!

JP

Re: Teams Up
Faithful_City 11 September, 2020 12:20


Noah Heward a star in the making

You can see why he likes Fullback

He reads the game and can TACKLE


JP

Re: Teams Up
WarwickEastie 11 September, 2020 12:25
Very much a 1st team selection.

I would like to see a morale boosting win - let's see some heart and grit, get the basics right, no silly penalties and impose a game plan on Irish.

One or two players are due a good one and this lot have had a few run outs together by now, so they should be starting to forge some understanding.

Well that's the theory anyway!

Re: Teams Up
Abmatt 11 September, 2020 12:38
No Fidow though which is a shame

Re: Teams Up
Faithful_City 11 September, 2020 12:40
He was never going to play having played against Bath, we cannot afford his defensive lapses and both Howe and Heward are quicker

jp

Re: Teams Up
shrewsburyman 11 September, 2020 12:43
Best available team rather than best team!

Re: Teams Up
AJWarriors1 11 September, 2020 12:48
Have to produce a full 80 minute performance. If we donít win this one Iíll be very disappointed, because barring one or two personnel I feel this is our strongest 15 barring any potential new recruits going into next season

Re: Teams Up
Warrior7 11 September, 2020 13:08
Apart from Howe this is our strongest 15, so agreed I'm hoping for a win. Our bench is far from its strongest, but hopefully they'll make an impact. Would have preferred Kai Owen's energy off the bench rather than Black.

Re: Teams Up
ROLLO 11 September, 2020 14:05
LI have a lot of good players out far more than we have. We have a decent record at The Stoop where we have won already this season. A good test of where we are.

Re: Teams Up
LiveInHope 11 September, 2020 15:02
Agree with above, Owen on bench & have doubts about Howe, would have preferred Fidow rather than Howe or even Van Breda who offers ability to cover numerous positions.
Also like Simpson on bench rather than Kitty or Heany

Re: Teams Up
WorcesterSauce 11 September, 2020 16:44
If we donít win this comfortably then i really do despair.

Re: Teams Up
kiddykid 11 September, 2020 22:31
Irish will be no pushover. If you saw their game at Kingsholm you would not hold this view - but like you I want them to win and to win well.

Re: Teams Up
WorcesterSauce 11 September, 2020 23:42
Yep thought they were quite good against glos but worth noting glos are another team with poor form and still beat them fairly comfortably in the end. If we arenít beating Irish then we donít stand a chance of progressing

Re: Teams Up
lokicrichtonfan 12 September, 2020 00:43
Good team. No excuses not to win. One thing that is concerning is the lack of quality on our wings. Ok the likes of Howe do a job but we never replaced Heem and Adams properly.

Re: Teams Up
Offa 12 September, 2020 08:00
Injuries will always be an issue for all teams, but there is no doubt that we are closer to our first team than they are. Oh for a win..........

Re: Teams Up
Faithful_City 12 September, 2020 08:23
Iíll go for a score line of 19:11

Re: Teams Up
Offa 12 September, 2020 11:54
Just noticed that Dodd is covering second row.

Re: Teams Up
ROLLO 12 September, 2020 12:47
I noticed that too and don't umderdtand it. What does it say to Scott and Clegg ? Dodds featured at Bath as well as them.

Re: Teams Up
Old Col 12 September, 2020 13:43
Dodds doubles up for back row or second row cover . No reflection non Scott or Clegg -both of whom did o.k. at Bath as debutants at thisa level despite the score .

Re: Teams Up
Fiver 14 September, 2020 20:33
We always seem to get comments about not replacing Adams or Heem.

Adams came through the academy, I firmly believe Heward will be that good. He's been chucked into premiership rugby earlier than Adams, who we must remember only actually got his chance because everyone else was injured.

Heem was way better than any of us ever thought he would be, even those of us who saw him play for the Chiefs would surely agree. Having seen Nanai get some ball recently I think we've now found that replacement.

When we acquired both Heem and Adams they weren't considered to be world class. I'm not even sure Heem had played for the Chiefs when he signed. When they left us I believe they both were that good. It's just about discovering more diamonds in the rough. A club like Worcester are never going to be able to sign an established world class winger.

Re: Teams Up
AJWarriors1 14 September, 2020 22:06
I spoke to an agent who gave me a heads up about Heem just as he had signed. He said he was class, but I didnít know a thing about him or even heard of him so watched him play for Chiefs and to answer your question if he started or not Fiver then yea he did and he was class. I watched him a play a lot more for Northland after that in the ATM Cup is it? Canít remember what itís called but anyway thatís when we knew we had a player. He was unstoppable in that tournament and I remember his first game vs Falcons and he was unbelievable in that too.

Re: Teams Up
Underdog 14 September, 2020 22:34
Completely agree with Fiver. Both Adams and Heem were punts to an extent, even if the club had scouted them thoroughly ahead of time.

Nanai looks like a nightmare to handle from a defensive point of view. He doesn't look as solid or consistent as Pennell has been for so many years, but the back three tends to operate as a unit now anyway, so as long as we balance his weaknesses out, it shouldn't be too problematic. Heward, Humphreys and David have all had game time at fifteen prior to joining the first team, and indeed, Heward seemed to be playing with a full back's defensive alignment in open play on Sunday. That sort of thing will allow Nanai to do what he does best.

Re: Teams Up
WorcesterSauce 14 September, 2020 22:54
Reality check needed. Heward wonít be as good as Adams and to claim he will be is delusional. Thatís not to say Heward wonít be useful for us but he wonít ever become probably the top 3 wingers in the world, top try scorer in the premiership and World Cup and 2nd highest in the Six Nations* (* Tournament not yet finished).

Top, top wingers donít grow on trees and Heward just wonít reach the heights Adams has. Heíll be good, but not quite that good.

Re: Teams Up
Offa 15 September, 2020 06:37
We are comparing them to pretty exalted company. Best ever Warriors 15: Bryce is first name on the team-sheet, and Josh likely to feature too (or at least a close argument away).
Noah has played 4 games in his less favoured position and is starting to look comfortable (more so than Josh did at a similar stage). Melani has also barely played for us.

I think They will both shine so long as our attack continues to improve and if our forwards provide a platform. Melani looks like he could be a real handful from fullback, and in particular already looks like he is developing an understanding with Noah. I really rate him, we just need to use him well - he will be different to Bryce who was a something out of nothing type of a player. (Although he will know that he did not have a good game in the catching department, and our next opponents will be peppering him with high balls, because it will not escape their analysis in the way it seems to have escaped Sky's).

We also have Perry to come back into the mix.

Re: Teams Up
shrewsburyman 15 September, 2020 09:07
I believe that Heward will a good winger but an exceptional full back. If Nanai is playing at full back I would want Heward on the wing providing cover. I think that we all agree that Nanai is an exceptional talent but depending upon how he performs under the high ball will depend upon whether on a wet and windy we may prefer CP with his safe hands.

Re: Teams Up
WorcesterSauce 15 September, 2020 09:14
Bang on shrewsburyman.

Re: Teams Up
Faithful_City 15 September, 2020 09:18
Agree SM, horses fore courses.

We have 3 very good fullbacks maybe even 5.

Nanai
Pennell
Heward
Shillcock
Humphreys

JP

Re: Teams Up
ROLLO 15 September, 2020 09:54
Why has everyone seemed to discount Fidow who has played international rugby, is quick, a failry big unit and has yet to have a run in the team ?

Re: Teams Up
Faithful_City 15 September, 2020 10:06
Ah, but Rollo we are talking fullbacks(Sm159)

Re: Teams Up
Offa 15 September, 2020 12:35
Yes Rollo.
You are right, I had forgotten about him (I have only seen him play once - when we were being hammered by Bath). Hope he is good and look forward to hearing from those who have seen more of him than me.

Re: Teams Up
w4rriorz1980 15 September, 2020 18:41
Saw him @ Quins in the rain.



Eats,Shoots And Leaves

Re: Teams Up
lokicrichtonfan 15 September, 2020 19:17
Christ we have some deluded on here. Granted Adams was nurtured and turned into a prolific try scorer but Heem played Super Rugby for chiefs.

Heward tackled Kyle Sinckler and now heís being heralded as the next Adams. Goodness me..

The idea that our current crop of wingers are adequate replacements is absurd. There is no reason not to properly replace them. Wingers are the most replaceable position on the pitch. Stop settling for mediocrity.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/09/2020 19:18 by lokicrichtonfan.

Re: Teams Up
Underdog 15 September, 2020 23:11
Quote:
lokicrichtonfan
Christ we have some deluded on here. Granted Adams was nurtured and turned into a prolific try scorer but Heem played Super Rugby for chiefs.

Heward is being nurtured and Nanai played Super Rugby for the Blues. So what's your point? I can't see anyone saying Heward will definitely become as good. He certainly looks better than Josh did at this point for us. That may well mean nothing in the end but no-one is deluded.

Quote:
The idea that our current crop of wingers are adequate replacements is absurd. There is no reason not to properly replace them. Wingers are the most replaceable position on the pitch. Stop settling for mediocrity.

Pray tell who would replace Heem and Adams, and for how much money? If they're that replaceable, no doubt there will be several examples that would realistically come here for a middling salary, without the chance of winning silverware but would still perform on a par with arguably our best pair of wingers in the modern era.

Edit: reading this back in the morning, it reads much more passive aggressively than it was intended. I meant for it to be much more along the lines of gentle scoffing during a pub argument.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/09/2020 07:07 by Underdog.

Re: Teams Up
TVM Rides Again 16 September, 2020 03:18
Underdog, youíre right no one is saying that about Heward - I think LCF is just being provocative

Re: Teams Up
Whispering_Death 16 September, 2020 07:50
Iíd love to know how some on here seem to know Heward wonít be as good as Adams. He could end up being better, nobody knows. And actually there are a @#$%& load of reasons not to adequately replace. Money, availability, who wants to come here, and going completely against our youth policy. Wingers is not our problem, we need to invest money in the pack and particularly our strength in depth there.

Re: Teams Up
TVM Rides Again 16 September, 2020 08:43
Quote:
Whispering_Death
Iíd love to know how some on here seem to know Heward wonít be as good as Adams. He could end up being better, nobody knows. .

Quite. But somehow it's easier to have big bombastic opinions rather than admit it is still an unknown. People can't actually believe that these guys are the finished article yet, surely?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/09/2020 10:42 by TVM Rides Again.

Re: Teams Up
Faithful_City 16 September, 2020 09:19
For those that come along to the A Team games will not be surprised about Noah, he is a very special player who is finding his feet.

Once he has the confidence of playing at this level and realizing that he is good enough to make decision he will become a pretty damn good fullback.

Hearle is another to keep your eyes on

I hope this hiatus does not stop the development of some very young schoolboys who are making names for themselves.

JP

Re: Teams Up
ROLLO 16 September, 2020 09:56
As JP says I think that Heward will end up being a very good full back. David on the other hand whilst having played 15 wiil find his best opportunity as a winger.
Until then we have an international winger who givem a good run without injures will prove his worth.
Whispering_ Death is corretc that any money needs to be spent on the pack as as soon as possible.

Re: Teams Up
WorcesterSauce 16 September, 2020 10:12
Quote:
Fiver

Adams came through the academy, I firmly believe Heward will be that good.

Some very, very selective reading by some on here.

I cannot see him being as good as Adams just because Adams is that good.

I will eat my hat if Heward becomes

Top Premiership try scorer
Top World Cup try scorer
2nd (and what will very potentially become first) Six Nations top try scorer.

That is not to say it is not Hewards fault because he is eligible for a country that has more talent coming through, especially in the Wing position. To say he will be as good is, for me, wide of the mark because Adams really was that good - he was and still is world class and was probably in the top 3 wingers in the world when he left us. Obviously I hope iím proven wrong and it is still unknown but I canít see Heward reaching quite those heights.

Remember the Wing position is by far the easiest position to transition from academy to first team from.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/09/2020 11:26 by WorcesterSauce.

Re: Teams Up
Brummagem7's 16 September, 2020 13:27
Agree on the comments on investing in the pack, particularly the front 5 for me. If not invest then at least back the young players in those positions next season.

Re: Teams Up
Fiver 16 September, 2020 20:04
It's just my opinion of course, but at the age of 18 or 19, I thought Josh was decent. He didn't do anything that made me sit up, but that could have been because of the chances he had. When he made the 1st team, again I didn't see anything out of the ordinary, but he took his chances very well and scored some tries. As time went on he just got better and better. I guess all I'm saying is that he didn't join us as the player you see today. I think it was a steady progression.

At the same age I personally see more coming from Noah, although that might be due to the way games have played out, or it may be I've just paid more attention, or maybe I'm seeing what I want to see. I just feel that like for like, Noah has the edge over Josh at his age. Whatever comes next, who knows. If Noah has the same level of progression that Josh had then I think we're looking at a very special player. I thought the same when I saw Ollie playing in the U18 finals against Sarries, and look how he's progressing. Ted was also in that game, and the same is true.

I'm now hoping our forwards will show the same amount of progression as we really need it, as others, if not all, have mentioned. So far I'm only really noticing Ted, Beck and to a certain extent Kitch. Perhaps I could add Dodd as he seemed to put himself about quite a bit against Exeter(?).

Regarding popping outside to the 'star wingers tree', it appears to be pretty bare right now for plucking them out of thin air for next to no money. We got lucky with Bryce, I don't think he'd played for the Chiefs when we signed him, and most people only knew him as a 7s player back then.

Re: Teams Up
centrethere 16 September, 2020 20:51
Agree Fiver, Josh grew into his role. Noah stood out last week, and looks the part. Ollie definitely stands out as does Ted, but for forwards generally, I think there is the 'with time' physical side, plus all the tricks. I used to slate Kvesic, not because he wasn't a good player, but because the massive demands on the positions he plays. Jake Abbott suffered from the same issue (albeit compounded by an injury).

Clegg / Scott / Dodd / young Kitch - are they going to make it? Well next season will tell us. Let's not forget we lost Fatialofa who was also just finding his feet

But electric wingers - not sure we need to worry so much - Humphreys / David to step with Fidow etc.

(PS did I miss Dean Hammond leaving ? -pic gone from club website)

But on-field leaders is paramount - without them we fall. That's why GJVV has survived so long - not only knows his job, but how to marshal the team. And Ted concentrating on his own game has not got that yet.

(Any if you want to really know my view on wingers - not replaced since Miles Benjamin and Marcel Garvey - only Humphreys is / has ever been close)

Re: Teams Up
Faithful_City 16 September, 2020 20:56
David semi wasn't half bad...

JP

Re: Teams Up
centrethere 16 September, 2020 21:11
Lemi and Biggs were past their best.

Re: Teams Up
Offa 16 September, 2020 22:24
Dean with Ealing.
I liked him and hope he does well for them.

Re: Teams Up
Fiver 17 September, 2020 08:17
I remember us signing Rico Gear, who never really got going for us. I did see him play a couple of decent games, but also several where you'd not have been aware he was on the pitch. Nikki Walker was an international winger, but again I can't remember a single thing he did. Was he injured during his tenure?

I agree with the new, bigger push for youth products from the academy. It'll take time though, and may leave us exposed in the odd position. The only way Warriors can survive is to do it this way.

Dean Ryan effectively called it a 5 year plan, it's now been 7 years since the ball got rolling to restart the academy. The big positive is that we are seeing guys coming into the team who can mix it in the premiership. That will then tell other talented youngsters that it's worth joining the Warriors academy as they produce top players. It should then, hopefully, start to snowball.

As such, I would go as far as to say we are replacing players like Adams and Heem, although it's worth remembering that no two players are the same. For me, Heem was a force of nature and I struggle to find another player like him when watching rugby from any league.

Re: Teams Up
lokicrichtonfan 17 September, 2020 19:03
Fidow looks to be a good player. However you can argue they have made no effort to improve the other wing. Theyíve just promoted the likes of Howe, Heward and David who are either not good enough or young and unproven. Howe being the former.

Re: Teams Up
AJWarriors1 17 September, 2020 20:17
Fidow just needs to stay fit and get a good run of games under his belt. Heís obviously got pace and power,but the main thing is that he can finish and create chances for himself like the one against Sarries last season...or was it this season? This season..Iím getting confused now! I really like him and I canít wait to see him on the shoulder of Ollie. Theyíre both tanks!

Thinking about it,now we have a break from the Prem for a few weeks we can now play our strongest team for the last few days seeing as theyíll all be fresh. Everyone has had a run out and itís clear to me who I think will play going into next season. Iím going for depending on who we might bring in

1. Waller
2. Moulds
3. Schonert
4. Bresler
5. Kitchener
6. Hill
7. Kvesic
8. Du Preez
9. Hougaard
10. Weir
11. Heward
12. Beck
13. Lawrence
14. Fidow
15. Nanai

Thatís a pretty good looking team. Iíve left the bench for now but Lewis, Annett, Mama and Venter are the obvious ones that could potentially start or come off the bench. Other places I still feel we need a lot more strength especially at tighthead, loosehead and lock



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/09/2020 20:23 by AJWarriors1.

Re: Teams Up
Offa 18 September, 2020 08:17
I always thought that the squad we have is what we have for next season. I know that there was a soundbite of Solly saying that they would consider whether we need to strengthen, but I see limited lockdown may be coming back for hospitality, and I can't see crowds back at Sixways any time soon. Glouc CE on Beeb the other day saying that they will struggle without crowds in serious numbers (admittedly at the same time as rumours of an audacious bid for French player).

All I am saying is that surviving covid has to be the priority. Covid is surely a bigger threat than relegation although I think what we have now may be enough to survive (injuries permitting).

Re: Teams Up
shrewsburyman 18 September, 2020 08:47
I agree with your analysis AJW but like Offa fear the effects of Covid on our survival far more.

Re: Teams Up
Abmatt 18 September, 2020 09:58
I canít see crowds in any meaning full sense until jan/feb at the earliest.

I hate to sound all doom and gloom, but I was saying to a friend the other day, Iím glad I got to take my kids to a (nearly) full stadium because I donít think things will ever be the same again.

Re: Teams Up
ROLLO 18 September, 2020 10:39
AJW pretty much agree but unless Solly wants Moulds for his captaincy Annett has the shirt IMHO.


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