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Tier Two Shake UP
Discussion started by wigston pirate , 19 July, 2020 16:04
Tier Two Shake UP
wigston pirate 19 July, 2020 16:04
Interesting topic and Head Lines front of The Rugby Paper this week. Edward Griffiths former CEO Saracens involved to move the Championship on.

(Sm109)

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
Pirate15 19 July, 2020 22:11
Championship clubs are to meet to discuss a 72 page document prepared by ex- Saracens CEO Edward Griffiths. One of his proposals is for a 16 team 'Heartlands' competition split into 2 regional leagues of 8 with the top 4 going into play offs to determine the winner with a grand final. The 4 bottom sides will go into play offs for the one relegation place.
A combined league side will look to play matches against touring Tier 2 sides.
It appears that the championship clubs are determined to go it alone and looking to strike their own sponsorship and possible TV deal. I'm not surprised as PRL are only interested in the premiership and pay lip service to the championship clubs. The RFU have shown complete contempt for our league and the likelihood is that there will be less money coming from them.
Its not clear what implications this will have on any promotion to the premiership for the grand final winners.

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
*Stalwart 20 July, 2020 09:39
I like the sound of this. It's a bit more like the league used to be, with playoffs at the top and bottom - which creates interest and keeps more clubs playing meaningful games deeper into the season. Playing internationals would also be very attractive. Regarding promotion to the premiership, we'll probably get ring fencing sooner or later anyway.

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
AggiePirate 20 July, 2020 20:46
I think we need to wait until we hear what the club and Dicky in particular think of this, before passing judgement. The article implies the Championship clubs have come up with this plan, so presumably the Pirates have had some form of involvement in the proposals.
To me it smacks of defeat of ever getting into the top tier, but if the club see this as the way forward then so be it. Problem is the Prem is where the money is and always will be.

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
Surrey Pirate 26 July, 2020 09:19
Quote:
AggiePirate
I think we need to wait until we hear what the club and Dicky in particular think of this, before passing judgement. The article implies the Championship clubs have come up with this plan, so presumably the Pirates have had some form of involvement in the proposals.
To me it smacks of defeat of ever getting into the top tier, but if the club see this as the way forward then so be it. Problem is the Prem is where the money is and always will be.
I can't for the life of me see why we have to wait until we know what Dicky and the club think before offering our opinions! Sport is all about people's opinions.

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
AggiePirate 27 July, 2020 07:53
So, what is your opinion then, Surrey?

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
wigston pirate 27 July, 2020 14:08
Hopefully when everything is brought out from the ongoing meetings I would like to see a decent cup competition brought in and believe this could involve teams from National 1. A really decent competition that has a meaningful trophy to play for with a good sponsor behind can be a great day for supporters. Plus a final day match at a meaningful location as Twickenham is not necessarily the best location in the land. There is mention of a Championship XV to play Tier 2 Nations which could provide a decent competition for supporters to attend. Premier Rugby has not been totally written out if I read the article correctly in TRP this weekend. Will wait patiently in the meantime while the discussions are ongoing.

(Sm109)

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
Surrey Pirate 28 July, 2020 16:16
Quote:
AggiePirate
So, what is your opinion then, Surrey?
My opinion is that we, as supporters have every right to voice our own opinion on suggestions such as the report in The Rugby Paper rather than merely waiting to see what the Dicky and the club's view is before saying anything!
In terms of the actual proposals, essentially I think this is basically the beginning of the road that ends with ring fencing. In which case, I would support the proposals as the Championship, in its current guise would be dead in the water if things remained the same. Having been on the Stadium journey from the very beginning I also fear that any Stadium for Cornwall that does come to fruition for Pirates is, essentially too late for the Premiership dream - although I would absolutely love to be proved wrong on that score.

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
Pantherdave 28 July, 2020 23:14
Whats this about in Daily Telegraph 27th about plan by Edward Griffiths about having 6 regional talent hubs with players graduating to Championship and after a year qualifying for Premiership draft!!...or have I missed it posted elsewhere?

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
Pantherdave 28 July, 2020 23:16
P.S. I suppose it's part of what is discussed above but the link above puts a different emphasis on it all

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
SJP 29 July, 2020 11:28
American style drafts whereby PRL clubs can choose to draft a player from the Championship. Why would any Championship club invest in a young player only to have him snatched away by a PRL club, Also mooted any promotion to the PRl by agreed criteria and not the club finishing top.

Click on the Link above and go to the Rolling Maul Forum for further details.



EDF Trophy Winners 2007
B & I Cup Winners 2010

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
*Stalwart 29 July, 2020 13:18
There's good and not so good in these ideas. I reckon we can rest assured that our club will only agree to anything that is in our interests.

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
Pirate15 29 July, 2020 22:25
Further details are emerging of Edward Griffiths plan with an end to automatic promotion and relegation in return for the academies to be handed over to the championship clubs who would run them on a regional basis in partnership with a university.
Promotion would cease for 4 years from 2021-25 season and then it would be determined by an independent assessor based on results, facilities and finances of the championship club against the bottom side in the premiership.
It is a very radical plan and was presented to the premiership clubs this week as a starting point for further negotiations.

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
*Stalwart 30 July, 2020 09:27
"Promotion would cease for 4 years from 2021-25 season and then it would be determined by an independent assessor based on results, facilities and finances of the championship club against the bottom side in the premiership."
Don't like the sound of that at all. Can of worms.

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
SJP 30 July, 2020 13:34
The criteria for promotion is to ensure that if the unthinkable happened and if anyone other than Sarries win he league they will parachuted back into the PRL.

We'd be better off applying to join the Pro 14.



EDF Trophy Winners 2007
B & I Cup Winners 2010

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
Surrey Pirate 30 July, 2020 14:23
Quote:
SJP
We'd be better off applying to join the Pro 14.
Realistically when it was the Celtic League it was where we should naturally have been. However, the politics of it all - an "English" based club playing outside of the RFU I don't think is permitted. Not convinced the travelling to Italy and South Africa is affordable either!!

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
cornishbob 30 July, 2020 17:16
Lets face it, the RFU is in one unholy mess completely of their own making. Instead of laying the rules down to the prem they have tried to accommodate them thinking of lucrative pay days but disregarding their membership clubs in favour of greed.
I suspect that in the not too distant future we will see a complete breakaway as suggested some time ago by some of the championship clubs which will involve all clubs right down to the lowest leagues. The latest 'streamlining' by Mr Griffiths is nothing more than a revamped version of what has already been suggested. If Covid hadn't happened maybe this would already have gained ground!!

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
AggiePirate 30 July, 2020 22:26
Quote:
Surrey Pirate
Quote:
AggiePirate
So, what is your opinion then, Surrey?
My opinion is that we, as supporters have every right to voice our own opinion on suggestions such as the report in The Rugby Paper rather than merely waiting to see what the Dicky and the club's view is before saying anything!
In terms of the actual proposals, essentially I think this is basically the beginning of the road that ends with ring fencing. In which case, I would support the proposals as the Championship, in its current guise would be dead in the water if things remained the same. Having been on the Stadium journey from the very beginning I also fear that any Stadium for Cornwall that does come to fruition for Pirates is, essentially too late for the Premiership dream - although I would absolutely love to be proved wrong on that score.

I think your conclusions are spot-on Surrey. We have missed that Premiership boat, especially in the current financial climate.

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
old prop steve 31 July, 2020 09:37
I just want to see some rugby actually being played!! Sadly our sport is particularly difficult to play under any sort of physical restrictions.

. Until such time as 15 a side matches can be played in front of massed spectators again I am afraid that league structures, ring fences, stadiums, RFU politics etc etc are all pretty academic.

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
Pirate15 31 July, 2020 13:18
Rugby Pass has now posted a news item on their website which gives more details on the paper presented by Edward Griffiths.

Plans for a radical shake up of the English Championship, which includes controversially ring-fencing the Gallagher Premiership for at least four years, includes a television deal potentially worth up to £12m a year split into five packages. RugbyPass has seen a copy of the 76-page plan for the second tier of English rugby put together by Ed Griffiths, the former Saracens chief executive, which has been presented to the Rugby Football Union and is now with the Premiership clubs, leading universities and potential broadcasting and sponsorship partners.

While the newly styled “The English Championship” would start in 2021-22 and has projected television revenue worth only a quarter of the current Premiership deal, the proposal is adamant a figure of between £10m and £12m would be possible to generate once the league is established and could be generated from outlets, including sports streaming companies and YouTube, and would feature Thursday and Friday fixtures.

The most extensive shake-up of the sport since rugby went professional is expected to be put before the 11 Championship clubs – relegated Saracens are not included – in its final draft by the end of August with an estimated running cost of £15.6m in its first year.

This will come from significant investment from both the RFU and Premiership Rugby – recognising ring-fencing from 2021 to 2025 – on top of broadcasting and sponsorship revenues. The Championship will be split into two conferences of six teams, designated North and South, with at least 14 home matches in the various competitions.

Within two years the Championship will expand to 16 teams with a women’s championship also included in the proposals.

Funding the Championship has become even tougher thanks to the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic with the RFU facing losses of up to £100m and the Premiership clubs also struggling due to the lockdown. Even before the current financial crisis the RFU had announced it would reduce central funding for the Championship from £530,000 to £288,000 per club next season in a package of cuts totalling £3million.

In the face of this financial body blow, Griffiths was tasked with delivering a new vision for the Championship. His plan is designed to achieve that by turning the league into a nursery, producing outstanding young English talent that is then drip-fed into the Premiership via an annual American-style draft system.

The young players will emerge from six regional centres based across the country and linked to two clubs in a remodelled Championship. This system would replace the current 13 academies based on the Premiership clubs with the RFU funding diverted to the six new centres.

The proposal states that: “The RFU will cease providing a fixed subsidy to a generally failing system, and instead be asked to support a significantly improved system that enhances the game, delivers a clear return on investment and offers measurable success.”

Under the draft, 60 players would take part from the regional hubs with the worst performing Premiership club having first pick of players, who will be offered in four bands.

A player signed from the first pick will be given an annual salary of £90,000 for three years at his Premiership club with the fourth round picks collecting £50,000 a year over the same period. Young players would not be allowed to join a top-flight club straight from school, having to spend at least one year at an academy with the system controlled by the RFU.

The Premiership clubs will be asked to draft a minimum of 48 players each December and “to respect regulations that prevent any Premiership club from contracting any young English player from anywhere except the TEC Draft.”

Championship clubs would operate a minimum wage structure with no less than £600,000 in the pot in 2020-21 for a 35-man squad. Twelve of those players will be from the academies and their salaries not included in the £600,000, leaving that figure to be split between 23 players giving a salary of £22,000 each. This will be supplemented by outside employment with measures in place to ensure “phantom” jobs are not created to boost salaries.

Critically, only 10 players in a squad will be over the age of 24 emphasising the Championship’s position as the focal point for young English rugby talent. Players will be contracted to the league with clubs acting as third parties.

Coaches and referees are also key components of the plans, with three of the four senior coaches English at the Championship clubs, while the league will have six dedicated referees who will be paid £40,000 a year.

A joint “Promotion and Relegation Commission”, chaired by an independent QC, would decide on promotion to the Premiership from the 2025-26 season onwards and there is a proposal that states promotion from National League One to the Championship would also be suspended for at least two seasons.

To expand the fixtures for Championship clubs there would be home matches against Tier Two/Three nations and a national knockout cup, plus a regional “division of origin” competition and an English Championship XV to tour France or South Africa.

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
Pirate15 31 July, 2020 19:17
There are a number of radical proposals in this document but is it a clever piece of initial negotiation by the championship clubs?
The big negative is the loss of automatic promotion but in return they are asking for the premiership to relinquish control of the academies and for an improved TV and sponsorship deal. The championship will be the league where the future of the English game will get their first taste of senior rugby and they will make the majority of their squad will be aged under 24 and EQP(English Qualified Players) which may get the RFU onboard.
Edward Griffiths is the ex-CEO of Saracens and will know how much the premiership value ring-fencing and what they will be willing to accept to get it.
If PRL turn this down then the Championship clubs may well hold the moral high ground in any future negotiations.

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
cornishbob 01 August, 2020 07:26
Maybe I'm missing something here, but taking the waffle out of the document the championship will be no more than the Prems feeding grounds with so many ties to them that it will be impossible to realistically control our own clubs and once the 4 year ring fence is reached it will be extended ad infinitum. It as also been suggested as a sweetener that a national competition be added (presumably FA cup style) to compensate for no promotion and an all clubs representative side be allowed to play second tier national sides!! A lot of caution needs to be taken here, which I'm sure owners and boards will be aware of. For me this is nothing more than the Prem and the RFU looking after themselves.

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
Pirate15 01 August, 2020 10:43
CB,
I don't think this is the case of the Premiership and the RFU looking after themselves as this document was prepared by Edward Griffiths on the direction of the Championship clubs. I think its more of the case that the championship clubs are putting forward their vision for the future at tier 1 & 2 because they are aware no doubt assisted by Mr Griffiths about what is lying in wait for them.

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
Eastanglianpirate 01 August, 2020 16:05
Can't help thinking that having all those academy players within Championship clubs is just a way of transferring all the effort from the Premiership to the Championship . I don't think it will work as these players will be playing for themselves and their futures rather than say, for the Pirates , where we expect players to put their bodies on the line for the club. For example when next season gets underway the Pirates have maintained most of last season's squad, but in the potential new scenario a whole bunch of players would disappear with this academy draft. It seems to me that the Championship clubs would lose an awful lot of their identity, particularly with the emphasis on Under 24 year olds.
It seems an interesting concept but I hope it doesn't go forward.

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
AggiePirate 02 August, 2020 21:49
Quote:
cornishbob
Maybe I'm missing something here, but taking the waffle out of the document the championship will be no more than the Prems feeding grounds with so many ties to them that it will be impossible to realistically control our own clubs and once the 4 year ring fence is reached it will be extended ad infinitum. It as also been suggested as a sweetener that a national competition be added (presumably FA cup style) to compensate for no promotion and an all clubs representative side be allowed to play second tier national sides!! A lot of caution needs to be taken here, which I'm sure owners and boards will be aware of. For me this is nothing more than the Prem and the RFU looking after themselves.
I am with you on this one Bob, for once! There is so much in these proposals which is why a few weeks ago I said we need to discover what Dicky and the club feel.
Let us be honest, Dicky has singlehandedly funded the club for years, with the prospect of a new stadium and promotion on the horizon. Without Dicky the club (like many) is unsustainable and he might well feel that without the prospect of promotion, what is the point?
Personally I think these plans give too much away, and that tier two is simply giving up hope. Yes the pandemic has knocked rugby for six, but we have to hope for a vaccine and better times around the corner, surely?

Re: Tier Two Shake UP
Wino 04 August, 2020 15:01
I realise this may be heresy but for me I just love the opportunity to watch high class and entertaining rugby of the sort that the Pirates have played in recent seasons. To me that is more important than the specifics of the format - as long as that format is competitive and has an end product, ie not just “friendlies”.


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