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bristol
Discussion started by fisher (IP Logged), 19 May, 2020 15:09
fisher
fisher
19 May, 2020 15:09
Are Bristol the new Sarries with what seems like a bottomless pit of money available to them. Answers on a postcard please.

Comanche Chief
Comanche Chief
19 May, 2020 15:53
Quote:
fisher
Are Bristol the new Sarries with what seems like a bottomless pit of money available to them. Answers on a postcard please.
Strange statement without stating the reason for it?

I can only assume you are referring to their latest signing?
Siva Naulago

Zyder head
Zyder head
19 May, 2020 16:04
I doubt he is that expensive in the grand scheme of things,he is unproven in Union and he has been given a temporary release from the Army so can go back to them if it doesn't work out.
An interesting signing all the same so good luck to them and him.
They will be working within the cap I am sure with the current situation so not the new Sarries imo.

MESSAGES->author
Lowerwatha
19 May, 2020 16:17
Article in the Telegraph this morning - Bristol Bears owner in favour of keeping marquee player rules

Lord Myners’ report raised concerns about the marquee player system after the Saracens salary cap scandal

Bristol Bears have declared that they are in favour of protecting the marquee player rule and support the existing salary cap after weeks of speculation that changes could be afoot for Premiership clubs.

An open letter from the club’s owner Stephen Lansdown came following the publication of Lord Myners’ report last week, which among its numerous recommendations in the fall out from the Saracens salary cap scandal raised concerns about the marquee player system, which allows two players to be paid outside the salary cap.

From the 2012-13 season, clubs could have one marquee player; with a second permitted from 2015-16. Bristol’s recent signings Charles Piutau and Semi Radradra are both marquee signings, so it is perhaps unsurprising that the club wishes to protect the rule.

Before the publication of Lord Myners’ report, Telegraph Sport revealed that a number of Premiership clubs were for the scrapping of the marquee player rule but billionaire businessman Lansdown is adamant it remain.

He wrote: “the club believe strongly in protecting the marquee rule. Not only do we have long-term contractual obligations that we have planned and budgeted for, it’s difficult to compete at the highest level domestically and in Europe without the ability to recruit the best players.

“The Premiership is the best rugby competition on the planet. Removing the best talent would dilute the appeal and impact on its ability to compete in the global market. High quality rugby in front of large crowds breeds healthy competition and is only a good thing for the sport and its long-term sustainability.”


Before the suspension of the Premiership in March, Bristol were sitting at third in the table due to the mix of high profile overseas signings such as former All Black Steven Luatua and local talent in the form of fly-half Callum Sheedy.

Lansdown is also firm that the salary cap remains at £7million after speculation that it could be reduced to help offset loses to clubs caused by the coronavirus pandemic. “To continue to drive the commercial growth of the game, we must keep the best players in the Premiership. The right high-profile internationals encourage investment, appeal to a new audiences and aid team performance,” he said.

“This challenging period should be used as an opportunity to reflect and explore how we can keep developing rugby through bold, innovative ideas. Now is not the time to take a step back and stifle progress.

“That is why we support the current salary cap. We believe the Premiership should foster and encourage ambition, while ensuring that clubs show financial prudence and planning. In previous seasons, Bristol Bears have not spent up to the salary cap. Instead, we have made the right decisions – in recruitment and for the business – to ensure that we can be competitive while still meeting the Premiership’s salary requirements.”

“With a world class training facility, stadium and young squad hungry for silverware, Bristol Bears want to continue to show ambition and to aspire to achieve great things.”

Of course he wants to retain the status quo - If the Marquee players rule goes they would have to reduce their players wage bill by about £2 million if they wanted to keep Piatau and their new Fijian signing!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/05/2020 16:18 by Lowerwatha.

OldMarovian
OldMarovian
19 May, 2020 17:35
Widely reported that Bristol, Bath AND Exeter Chiefs were the three clubs who were opposed to the majority idea that the cap should be decreased in the coming season(s)

Seems Lansdown is just a bit more open about stating what he wants and why.

MESSAGES->author
minuteman
19 May, 2020 18:16
For me the salary cap and marquee players rule should stay as is .
I’m as guilty as the next Chiefs supporter at wondering how Briz afford their talent.. then in the next moment remember that we have a huge array of talent ourselves.. quite how Rob does it I’ll never know.
That said Briz have some squad being assembled.. which for ne is what i want to see.. trot along to Sandy Park and see bonafide world class players on both teams.
Ten years ago we had just won the first leg of the play off final and now are sat at the top of the tree.
The rules have been adhered to by Chiefs and look where we have got to .. so it shows it can be done

clalan
clalan
19 May, 2020 23:01
Not sure you can compare our past with Bristol Minuteman, They are signing top proven talent which we did not really due in the first years.
As for statements, Sarries stated they were all above board for years.

MESSAGES->author
minuteman
19 May, 2020 23:38
Quote:
clalan
Not sure you can compare our past with Bristol Minuteman, They are signing top proven talent which we did not really due in the first years.
As for statements, Sarries stated they were all above board for years.

Im not comparing us to Briz apart from the fact we both have world class players. ..

MESSAGES->author
Thomas Hawk
20 May, 2020 07:51
The sole reason I suspect that Exeter and Bristol will want to keep the cap in place is purely because they would be faced with the unenviable choice of ditching their marquee players or cutting multiple players in their squad to remain within the cap if the marquee players rules are abolished.

For Bristol I would have reason to strongly suspect that the cost shedding would be worse than at Exeter as Bristol are paying Charles Piatau for instance a reported salary of a million a year as a marquee player. If he was to no longer be considered as a marquee player then he alone would account for around 15% of Bristol total wage budget for the year under the cap.

MESSAGES->author
minuteman
20 May, 2020 10:13
Quote:
Tom A Hawk
The sole reason I suspect that Exeter and Bristol will want to keep the cap in place is purely because they would be faced with the unenviable choice of ditching their marquee players or cutting multiple players in their squad to remain within the cap if the marquee players rules are abolished.
For Bristol I would have reason to strongly suspect that the cost shedding would be worse than at Exeter as Bristol are paying Charles Piatau for instance a reported salary of a million a year as a marquee player. If he was to no longer be considered as a marquee player then he alone would account for around 15% of Bristol total wage budget for the year under the cap.

By RB’s own admission its a 4D puzzle that takes years to put together before changing again as contracts expire etc ... it would cause mayhem for all clubs to have to unpick contracts with most of their squads .
As long all clubs abide by the rules then its a fair race for the title.. and we all know what happens if you cheat .
If the marquee players ruling does change then it should be after consulting the clubs and implemented after an agreed time to allow clubs to get their contracts/ players in order .
You could argue for A higher salary cap and no marquee players .. but would that see those marquee players move overseas?

MESSAGES->author
ouch!_that_hurts
20 May, 2020 10:38
I think if Exeter want to argue to retain the cap and marquee situation as is, that's fine while they're making a profit. However, when we read that in the two years leading up to CVC's buy-in the 13 Premiership members lost nearly £89 million - including Bristol who lost £12.4m and Bath who lost £5.7m - should Exeter be supporting such a move?

If their sugar-daddies pull out, who covers those losses? Surely, if your looking for sustainability, the cap should be based on each club's generated income.

MESSAGES->author
minuteman
20 May, 2020 11:21
This is why a forum like this is great.. each can share their opinion in a respectful manner and hear valid points from all sides.
Those of us who remember how hard it was to meet premiership ground criteria alone appreciate how well the club has been managed . We had to play by the same rules as everyone else and may actually have had an advantage long term given the lack of a top flight legacy to go on.
We were / are a club whose direction was upwards with a clear plan on how to do it. The execution of that is still an amazing achievement.
Anyway.. thanks to you JS for moderating this board and hopefully we can get back to playing sooner rather later

Zyder head
Zyder head
20 May, 2020 11:24
Ultimately surely the goal is for every Premiership rugby club to be financially stable and run as a proper business not just bankrolled by mega rich owners.
If we can do it at Exeter with astute financial planning why is it so difficult elsewhere?

SimonG19
SimonG19
20 May, 2020 11:54
Quote:
OldMarovian
Widely reported that Bristol, Bath AND Exeter Chiefs were the three clubs who were opposed to the majority idea that the cap should be decreased in the coming season(s)
Seems Lansdown is just a bit more open about stating what he wants and why.

Indeed. Nothing wrong with taking this view. It's when you ignore the cap and cheat for six years it is a problem.

cornwallchief
cornwallchief
20 May, 2020 15:00
All interesting stuff but I think the fact that the Covid pandemic is likely though not certain to affect next season's matches as well will in the end mean that the financial affects of it all will need some different thinking. No gate receipts or associated earnings for much of this season and possible interruptions in cash next year, loss of international RFU income, and a recession to end all recessions cannot not have a huge effect. Bristol, Bath and us cannot just play ourselves - we are in a league. Enough clubs need to survive for the premiership to work - how can the present loss making system work. When I bought my first house interest rates were often above 7% and once 15%. At the end of this epidemic unemployment might be 10-15% - greater than that in the young and the country with a debt greater than the second world war with no USA to bail Europe out! Things will have and need to change in rugby's financing.

goss8800
Chief Fire Water
20 May, 2020 18:21
Quote:
Zyder head
Ultimately surely the goal is for every Premiership rugby club to be financially stable and run as a proper business not just bankrolled by mega rich owners.
If we can do it at Exeter with astute financial planning why is it so difficult elsewhere?

Spot on. Bath and Bristol are run by very successful business men who have made their money outside of rugby. Why cant they run a rugby club as successfully as their other business's.

Our board run the club as a business why cant everyone else, its not hard

OldMarovian
OldMarovian
20 May, 2020 19:11
Quote:
SimonG19
Quote:
OldMarovian
Widely reported that Bristol, Bath AND Exeter Chiefs were the three clubs who were opposed to the majority idea that the cap should be decreased in the coming season(s)
Seems Lansdown is just a bit more open about stating what he wants and why.

Blah, blah, blah

Gosh you're a tiresome fellow Simon. What does the one point have to do with the other?

PRL has shown itself to be a self-interested cabal. Saracens were caught cheating and have been rightly punished. Wage inflation and the current situation re covid has shown just how fragile the majority of the clubs finances are. On that basis clubs are looking to make themselves more sustainable.

Both Baxter and Nowell have talked about possibly needing and being open to salary reductions but because of the good management of Exeter Chiefs it is not necessary for the club. Bristol and Baths owners are prepared to absorb the losses.

As I understand it a supermajority vote is all that is needed so it's entirely possible that the reduction can be forced through regardless. Addressing current commitments would ofc have to be part of any agreement.

Personally I'd rather see Saracens still around in 10 years and operating on a budget that gives them some chance of breaking even at some point than (legally or otherwise) spending the current cap with mounting losses that will never realistically be covered.

Cheifs have an enviable position as a well-financed club running in profit but the situation which lead to that isn't replicable for the majority of other clubs. So what do you do?

EverOptimistic
EverOptimistic
20 May, 2020 19:41
Quote:
Chief Fire Water
Quote:
Zyder head
Ultimately surely the goal is for every Premiership rugby club to be financially stable and run as a proper business not just bankrolled by mega rich owners.
If we can do it at Exeter with astute financial planning why is it so difficult elsewhere?

Spot on. Bath and Bristol are run by very successful business men who have made their money outside of rugby. Why cant they run a rugby club as successfully as their other business's.

Our board run the club as a business why cant everyone else, its not hard

Absolutely no doubt that Exeter are the gold standard in how to run a professional rugby club. We all look on in awe and aspire to the same greatness and humility.

Stay safe Chiefs fans.

chief in exile
chief in exile
21 May, 2020 07:17
Bristol have made some good signings, but two are only on loan. Have they got the strength in depth at Hooker, second row and prop to be Top 4 prem and have a champions cup run, debatable. As we have found out you need two equally good international class fronts 5s, plus back up.They are moving in the right direction and it will take time, but glad a big rugby club from a rugby city is on it's way back.

Rich.
Rich.
21 May, 2020 09:12
I believe Bristol would be near or in profit if just looking at
the 'normal' expenditure and income we think about. The accounts will show a big loss because of one-offs such as buying the land and then building a 'state of the art' new training complex (due to be open this summer). As with all businesses they will look to shift all they can into business expenses so as to reduce reported profit as much as possible (so no corp tax to pay).

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